New EU motorcycle license: A return of the 400cc class?

[mechwira]

double post

[krocozkid]

definitely i'll buy the new zx4r or cbr400rr if they ever come out newer version. =)

[BC]

nice article. nevertheless, many new 2A bikers here will still max out their licenses by getting a 400cc bike once they had passed. I remember many years ago when i got myself a 250cc 2-stroke scrambler and many of my friends are asking me why didnt I just simply go for a 400cc scrambler? to me, i tend to go for those rarely found bikes here. haha.

[mild_slevin]

but i'm been thinking would it be cost effective for consumer? generally we would compare for example a new CBR400RR n CBR600RR (*with our current license tier), price margin and would it be better to get a 600 after a year?

[mechwira]

but i'm been thinking would it be cost effective for consumer? generally we would compare for example a new CBR400RR n CBR600RR (*with our current license tier), price margin and would it be better to get a 600 after a year?

 

i think that a rider aiming at cbr600rr, or any other class 2 bike, a.s.a.p style, would totally skip class2a, or buy a cheap second hand model.

 

in fact thats wat i did: i took 2A, continued riding my 2b bike, then take class 2 and directly got on my cbr600rr from my old TA150. i already targeted class2 bike a.s.a.p, so to me any 2a bike was a waste of money. and this is one reason why i say our 3-tier system is pointless; ppl like me will just skip it towards class2.

 

but you see, if there was a brand new CBR400RR, i would have bought such a bike and not go class2 at all. and thats why i think theres a market for a theoretical cbr400rr: for people who purposely want to own long-term a class2a bike. plenty of local riders feel that capacity-wise, 250-400 is the 'ideal' capacity in terms of practicality or value-for-money, when considering local commuting. thats why so many super4.

 

and the theoretical cbr400rr is for these people, as a 'harder' alternative to the super4 or gsr4.

[mechwira]

nice article. nevertheless, many new 2A bikers here will still max out their licenses by getting a 400cc bike once they had passed. I remember many years ago when i got myself a 250cc 2-stroke scrambler and many of my friends are asking me why didnt I just simply go for a 400cc scrambler? to me, i tend to go for those rarely found bikes here. haha.

 

aiyah.... a 2-stroke 250cc vs a 4-stroke 400cc..... i'd pick the 2-stroke 250 anytime, and anyone who asks me why not 400, just doesn get it

[mild_slevin]

i think that a rider aiming at cbr600rr, or any other class 2 bike, a.s.a.p style, would totally skip class2a, or buy a cheap second hand model.

 

in fact thats wat i did: i took 2A, continued riding my 2b bike, then take class 2 and directly got on my cbr600rr from my old TA150. i already targeted class2 bike a.s.a.p, so to me any 2a bike was a waste of money. and this is one reason why i say our 3-tier system is pointless; ppl like me will just skip it towards class2.

 

but you see, if there was a brand new CBR400RR, i would have bought such a bike and not go class2 at all. and thats why i think theres a market for a theoretical cbr400rr: for people who purposely want to own long-term a class2a bike. plenty of local riders feel that capacity-wise, 250-400 is the 'ideal' capacity in terms of practicality or value-for-money, when considering local commuting. thats why so many super4.

 

and the theoretical cbr400rr is for these people, as a 'harder' alternative to the super4 or gsr4.

 

yup, I agree there be group would be fine settle in 2A license if such super sport variety still available. Different league still pack with fun and stuff. I too jump straight from 2B to 2 bike, looking back then the choice are pretty much simple... LOL

Now the new 250 seems to bring some "life" in 2A category, plus Yamaha too would be introducing their YZF-R250 as well...

[feilong]

i've never seen one in singapore. all the old 250's i've seen are rare two-strokers like the nsr250, rgv250 and tzr250. i think it was never imported into singapore.

 

and the emission discussions are all referring to EU emissions, not LTA.

 

dang, thats a bummer. A 250cc bike with performance to rival a 400cc bike would be a real gem.

[feilong]

and the summary of the discussions that followed are:

 

1)Whether it is possible to produce a modern 400cc inline-4 engine that meets EU regulations while still having the power output of the old legends. Some say cannot, i say can, but only the manufacturers know i guess.

 

2)Whether there is really a market for hardcore 400cc, or today's riders all go for soft commuter bikes. I say now that Europe is forcing their young riders to a 45bhp limit, yes there is potentially a market.

 

With the New 2 tier system imposed in the EU, if the emphasis shifts to a bike's performance (BHP) instead of just the engine capacity (CC),

we would definitely see a dramatic change in the variety of bikes.

 

We know that performance and efficiency go in opposite directions (high performance usually means fuel guzzler)

and manufacturers want to make bike models that appeal to mass market.

It may not be in their interest to launch high performance machines because

a) such machines drink more fuel

b) consumers generally want fuel economy (save the enthusiast/sports/racer sector)

 

Correlating this to the Singapore landscape, I guess it would not have a big impact since we are still following a 3 Tier system.

What would possibly happen is that the newer 2A bikes would pale in comparison to current bikes.

 

Does this make sense?

[mechwira]

wow, happening just like i predicted and even faster than i thought, the class2a bikes are indeed beginning to explode.

 

What should be old news by now is the KTM Duke390. that one goes on sale around the world and singapore in a few months.

 

another confirmed one is the CBR400R.

 

http://www.iamabiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/honda-cbr400r-india-specifications.jpg

 

and using the same engine, honda will produce the naked version CB400F and a crosstourer variant, details found at http://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/honda-cbr400-range-unveiled-in-japan/15830/.

 

and i think eventually the rumours of a yamaha 400cc will proven to be true as well. highly unlikely that yamaha, with already a plant in malaysia making small capacity engines, will ignore this booming segment.

 

the cbr400r and variants is only a short-stroke version of the CBR500R, but the fact is its 400cc and makes 45bhp. Granted, still not near the super4 (much less the legendary CBR400RR), but my next prediction is that a 'power figures race' will commence once they do discover that in this category, buyers will indeed go for the more powerful bike.

 

the signs of such a power figures chase is already beginning. honda thailand is now rumoured to be producing a cbr300, which is an upsized engine of the cbr250 just like kawasaki did with the 250 to 300.

 

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/motorcycles/possible-new-details-emerge-about-the-honda-cbr300r-70598/

 

honda must have begun to realize that nobody is going to buy a weak CBR250 while the ninja300 exists. and when this power figure chase goes into full swing, we can all hope that indeed in a few years down the road, hardcore 400s might finally make their return

[keyxblade]

wow, happening just like i predicted and even faster than i thought, the class2a bikes are indeed beginning to explode.

 

What should be old news by now is the KTM Duke390. that one goes on sale around the world and singapore in a few months.

 

another confirmed one is the CBR400R.

 

http://www.iamabiker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/honda-cbr400r-india-specifications.jpg

 

and using the same engine, honda will produce the naked version CB400F and a crosstourer variant, details found at http://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/news/honda-cbr400-range-unveiled-in-japan/15830/.

 

and i think eventually the rumours of a yamaha 400cc will proven to be true as well. highly unlikely that yamaha, with already a plant in malaysia making small capacity engines, will ignore this booming segment.

 

the cbr400r and variants is only a short-stroke version of the CBR500R, but the fact is its 400cc and makes 45bhp. Granted, still not near the super4 (much less the legendary CBR400RR), but my next prediction is that a 'power figures race' will commence once they do discover that in this category, buyers will indeed go for the more powerful bike.

 

the signs of such a power figures chase is already beginning. honda thailand is now rumoured to be producing a cbr300, which is an upsized engine of the cbr250 just like kawasaki did with the 250 to 300.

 

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/motorcycles/possible-new-details-emerge-about-the-honda-cbr300r-70598/

 

honda must have begun to realize that nobody is going to buy a weak CBR250 while the ninja300 exists. and when this power figure chase goes into full swing, we can all hope that indeed in a few years down the road, hardcore 400s might finally make their return

 

its confirm that the new 400cc models are coming? hopefully they are around the price of super 4. there was a shop who brough in ninja 400 but it cost as much as a class 2 bike, then not much ppl buy it i think he stop taking them in.

[mechwira]

its confirm that the new 400cc models are coming? hopefully they are around the price of super 4. there was a shop who brough in ninja 400 but it cost as much as a class 2 bike, then not much ppl buy it i think he stop taking them in.

 

the 'ninja 400' is an ER-6 with the engine downsized to 400cc. if thats what they did, then of coz the 'ninja 400' would cost as much as the ER-6, coz its the same bike. the reason they do this is because with the engine downsized to 400cc, in some markets the bike qualifies for lower taxes making its selling price significantly cheaper than the 600, coz the 600 has higher taxes. as far as i know, we dun have such a tax system so the 'ninja 400' ends up same price as the original ER-6. moreover, essentially its the same size/weight body with 'smaller balls'....

 

bear in mind, the CBR400R being sold in India is the same thing: it is the CBR500R with engine downsized to 400cc. i therefore expect it to cost the same as the CBR500R. but i guess its a start in the sense that manufacturers are beginning to see the value of 400cc.

 

the yamaha R4 is only a strong rumour, and the CBR300, an upsized version of the CBR250, is also a rumour. but i expect we'll see confirmed news about them later this year.

 

i just bought a ninja300 btw....

[keyxblade]

the 'ninja 400' is an ER-6 with the engine downsized to 400cc. if thats what they did, then of coz the 'ninja 400' would cost as much as the ER-6, coz its the same bike. the reason they do this is because with the engine downsized to 400cc, in some markets the bike qualifies for lower taxes making its selling price significantly cheaper than the 600, coz the 600 has higher taxes. as far as i know, we dun have such a tax system so the 'ninja 400' ends up same price as the original ER-6. moreover, essentially its the same size/weight body with 'smaller balls'....

 

bear in mind, the CBR400R being sold in India is the same thing: it is the CBR500R with engine downsized to 400cc. i therefore expect it to cost the same as the CBR500R. but i guess its a start in the sense that manufacturers are beginning to see the value of 400cc.

 

the yamaha R4 is only a strong rumour, and the CBR300, an upsized version of the CBR250, is also a rumour. but i expect we'll see confirmed news about them later this year.

 

i just bought a ninja300 btw....

 

oh thanks for the info. how much did you bought ninja 300? and at where?

[mechwira]

oh thanks for the info. how much did you bought ninja 300? and at where?

 

S1/M1/Albert advertised the bike at New Paper last sat at 12k machine, which is $800 off usual price but donno till how long.

[DeusExMachina]

Gaah. It's still a 400cc parallel twin...

[kinwei]

Looks like the 250. but parrallel twin = no high rpm. Like something missing....

[AkalaPovic]

Gaah. It's still a 400cc parallel twin...

 

Theres a reason why there is only 1 "R" in the naming of the bike!

 

High handle bars, low foot pegs, high torque, high efficiency. Bikes listed with a single "R" can easily muster 25km/l to 40km/l efficiency. (Cbr125R, Cbr150R, Cbr250R, Cbr400R, Cbr500R)

 

Those bikes in honda catalogs with "RR" uses clip ons and high foot pegs. =X (Cbr400RR, Cbr600RR and Cbr1000RR!)

 

High horse power, reduced efficiency. The CbR400RR i used to ride clocks at best 24km/l, the 1000rr at stock trim at best 18km/l. Both based on the same route i travel to and fro work.

But the 400RR easily clocks 200km/h and above top speed, cant be so sure abt the Cbr500R , probably 160+kmh max, considering the NC700 max out at 180kmh

[Burningman]

Theres a reason why there is only 1 "R" in the naming of the bike!

 

High handle bars, low foot pegs, high torque, high efficiency. Bikes listed with a single "R" can easily muster 25km/l to 40km/l efficiency. (Cbr125R, Cbr150R, Cbr250R, Cbr400R, Cbr500R)

 

Those bikes in honda catalogs with "RR" uses clip ons and high foot pegs. =X (Cbr400RR, Cbr600RR and Cbr1000RR!)

 

High horse power, reduced efficiency. The CbR400RR i used to ride clocks at best 24km/l, the 1000rr at stock trim at best 18km/l. Both based on the same route i travel to and fro work.

But the 400RR easily clocks 200km/h and above top speed, cant be so sure abt the Cbr500R , probably 160+kmh max, considering the NC700 max out at 180kmh

 

Nice thread. Some shops have gray mkt imported the 2013 cbr400. Im looking at the 2014 cbr400 for my first bike. Coming in soon. Any recommendations on similiar sports bike?

[azr123]

Good readings here.

[topgearalwaysrock]

A2 license has no power cap per say, but is more of bhp/weight ratio. For normal street bikes, its arnd 47bhp, but can go up to 55bhp.

 

That said, notice their A2 license got no engine cc cap. So there's nothing stopping a manufacturer from putting a power limiter on their 650cc bikes.

 

As for Spore, yeah, our 3 tier license system is stupid. Even ang moh at learning ctr agrees.

 

CBR300 has been confirmed for production to rival the Ninja 300.

 

2-Strokes are definitely more powerful than 4 strokes. Imagine a pump, where only 2 strokes of pump can deliver an equal volume as 4 strokes of pump.

 

But having to pump 4 times is definitely making the work easier, at least when it comes to dividing the load to 4 sections instead of 2.

 

4-stroke tech is generally more fuel efficient as well and latest engines burn more cleaner too!

 

Sent from my LG-P875 using Tapatalk

[adamant1988]

In my honest opinion, i feel that the 3 tier motorcycle licensing do have their advantages.

 

For example, if one was riding a 200cc and hop straight to a 1000cc superbike. Can he/she handle that much power jump?

 

But maybe if government can adjust the system for a bit for e.g

2B: Up to 250CC

2A: Up to 500CC

2: Any capacity

 

Maybe more can benefit from it? Just my opinions..

[Limiter]

don't think will happen in sillypore..