[Discussion] CB400 SUPER FOUR HYPER VTEC Revo

[ldslds]

Are you confused? On the one hand you say I am right twice and then you conclude "it's up to the individual". And then after agreeing that Honda is famous and it is the world's largest bike manufacturer, you accuse Honda of "playing with bike owners' emotions" blah blah blah...

Really??? Sounds like you’re just trying to argue for the sake of it. Perhaps you need to use more of the grey matter, mate.

 

 

You can wait a while more or you can start putting that grey matter to work.

 

Yo mate i beg to differ, yup i am confused because i am not sure what grey matter you are referring to.... I agreed to the 2 points that you have listed out but its up to individual whether he/she wants to change at 1K, 2K , 5K ,10K or 100K km intervals, thats why i concluded "it's up to the individual".

 

I said "what if", its an assumption not trying to accuse... If using 'what if' = accuse, you are accusing all the bike shops of "playing with bike owners' emotions" blah blah blah too...

 

I am not trying to argue, its merely a discussion =)

 

So, based on you 20+ years of driving/riding experience, what makes you think/feel that your car/bike can determine the condition of your battery?

[SparkerS1]

Are you confused? On the one hand you say I am right twice and then you conclude "it's up to the individual". And then after agreeing that Honda is famous and it is the world's largest bike manufacturer, you accuse Honda of "playing with bike owners' emotions" blah blah blah...

Really??? Sounds like you’re just trying to argue for the sake of it. Perhaps you need to use more of the grey matter, mate.

 

You can wait a while more or you can start putting that grey matter to work.

I don't feel he is arguing anything, he is simply just stating his thoughts, why you have to take it so negatively?

 

To those “newer” members on this thread who have been patiently waiting for answers so they can form their own opinions or decide what to do because they may be coming up to their next oil change, I apologise for this late reply. I’ve been quite busy and haven’t had the time to post my reply.

 

I have also initially wanted to post enough information so that my post and explanations can be a stand-alone self-explanatory post. However time does not permit me to do so at this point. Nevertheless, let me state that my suggestions on oil change intervals and oil changes during engine break-in period are based on much time spent on researching on this hot topic as well as from my own experience gained from more than 25 years of cars and bikes ownership. This inevitable meant that in the early days, I also was a victim of unscrupulous mechanics/shop owners.

 

I have also had the good opportunity some time back, as part of my work, to review the management practices of a car rental company, an MNC with 200+ vehicles in their sale and distribution fleet as well as a Japanese truck and buses manufacturer. When you run a company with such a big fleet, maintenance best practices must be applied and I have been fortunate to gain some very practical knowledge in this regard. In other words, this is real world practical information based on facts. Not some opinion passed down from ill informed, “my father/uncle/very-kind-mech (insert your own “advisor” here) did this or suggested this and had no problems,” kind of advises.

 

I trust that people reading this understand that I have only mentioned the above info so you understand where I’m coming from. I have no need for any recognition and have absolutely no interest in grand standing. All I am trying to do, when I have some time on my hands, is to correct any misconceptions and/or mis-information. My only intent is to share what I know so that others, especially those with much less experience in vehicle ownership, can avoid spending money wastefully. Spend that money on good riding gear instead or modifications that actually enhance performance such as a 520 conversion.

 

As far as possible, I have included references as to where you can find some of the information yourselves.

 

Oil Change Intervals (“OCI”)

Firstly, when I recommended that 10,000km oil change interval, it is with the assumption that you start off with good engine oil for your bike. This invariably means fully synthetic oil. IMO, the top brands such as Silkolene, Motul, Motorex, Mobil1 and a few others do produce good oils. I am currently using Mobil1 4T 10w40 simply because it is a good oil and at $20 a litre, it is good value for money choice.

 

#8676

“…Honda never revise its CB400 oil change interval for Revo [sic]”

If you are the Head of Production or Design Engineer at such a hugely successful company such as Honda is, wouldn’t you ensure that your product manual is up to date? If the oil change interval for Spec 1-3 bikes were still applicable for Revo, why would it be necessary to change the recommended interval? If you own a bike manufacturing company can you successfully increase your market share and become top manufacturer in the world by simply slapping some out-dated information for your new products?

I have no idea why the Suzuki GSXR1000 has an OCI of 6000km. Perhaps it has a smaller oil sump and thus the oil volume to engine capacity ratio is lower compared to CB400s. However, this is only speculation and you’d have to ask Suzuki why they designed the bike that way. I trust that the engineers at Suzuki know what they are doing. However, why are you taking another bike model to compare against the Revo? If you do that, why not use these two other examples?

- Honda CBR 1000 RR – 12,000km OCI

- Ducati Panigale 1199 – 12,000km OCI

Download the Manuals here:

http://campaigns.hondampe.com.au/Motorcycles/manuals/CBR1000RR.06.pdf)

http://ducati.com/services/maintenance/index.do

 

 

“I never insist on the oil change interval for the general public, I only sharing my knowledge/opinions on why I don't follow the manual blindly on certain issues.”

Nobody said anything about you insisting. However, in the FAQ thread, you did state “don’t argue with me about my oil change interval” until recently (this has now been removed for reasons only you would know). I now note that you have updated Post #4 of the FAQ thread with your comments about Honda not updating their oil change interval in the manual and etc as per your Post #8676 on this thread. If you only state your opinion without also including other member’s views on this matter, aren’t you providing information that is biased only to your preference? Isn’t this implying that your way is the only way? On the other hand, and if you were an unbiased moderator, you should include other’s views. If you disagree, do state your reasons to justify yourself.

 

Several members have asked that my post on 10k OCI be made sticky. Why haven’t you reproduced my post (with your objections if you need to) on that FAQ thread?

 

I hope you and every one else note that you have a title behind your name on this forum. At one time and for quite a while, you even tagged yourself as a “Legendary Moderator”. Please note that whenever someone carries a title it implies that that person is a subject matter expert and thus he or she need to pay attention to the things that are said. This is simply because for many of those who don’t know better they would simply think, “Oh, he is a moderator, so he must be right. I better follow.” All I am saying is that you should be responsible with what you state. When it is an opinion, you should qualify that opinion with the reasons behind it. Merely making a statement without justifying or stating the basis is passing of an opinion as fact, in other words, misleading.

 

 

“EFI bikes which generate more heat.

Singapore climate is different from Japan.

Singapore riding condition is also different due to many stop & go intervals when encountering traffic jams.

Heat will speed up EO degrading process.

Preventive is always better than corrective.”

 

Let’s start with that last statement. This is an opinion. It is not grounded in facts.

As far as engine heat is concerned, don’t you think Honda has taken this into consideration when they designed the cooling system and engine oil specs so as to ensure that the engine does not overheat? Whilst it is true that the Revo seems to run a bit hotter than a Spec 3 for example, how much hotter are we talking about? Is it hotter than a Fireblade?

 

Before we go any further, let me give you an idea as to how top manufacturers come up with those numbers for recommended maintenance. For the sake of brevity, let’s restrict ourselves to engine oil and filter change intervals. It goes without saying that manufacturers such as Honda know all about the bike and the engine they designed. That is to say, they have run enough tests during the development stage to collect sufficient data on the running conditions (operating temperature, wear rate, oil specs and etc.). They also know which markets they will be selling their bikes at. Based on all these information, they come up with an optimum OCI. They then consider that some bike owners may not use or may not have access to the best engine oil/oil filter that they recommend and may just use average oil and filter. This optimum OCI is then marked down to arrive at the “safe” recommended OCI in the manual. (Note: FYI, this process is considered normal best practice in any good manufacturing firm.)

 

As such, the recommended OCI stated in the manual is reliable.

 

 

“Singapore climate is different from Japan”?

See previous paragraph on how the OCI is derived. Do you really expect them to provide different OCI for every country the sell their bikes? Your statement also shows that you do not really understand operating temperatures in a combustion engine. External ambient temperatures only affect how fast the engine and its internal components cool down AFTER the engine has stop running. Whilst the engine is running, the internal operating temperature remains the same.

 

It is also interesting that you have picked climate to justify yourself. This just goes to show that you still lack the adequate knowledge in this matter. FYI, when vehicles are run in areas which experience the four seasons, the frequency of oil change is actually higher than those vehicles that are run in an area which doesn’t experience extreme weather changes. This is because in colder climate (autumn/winter) engine oils have to maintain a low pour point as indicated in the 0W/10W15W prefix of the oil grade indicator. In order to achieve the low pour point in cold weather, Viscosity Index Improvers (VII) are added to the base oil. It is the VII in engine oil that is most affected by the high shear factor in motorcycles, thus necessitating earlier oil changes if the engine is run during harsh winter conditions.

 

Read more about engine oils here: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

 

 

“Heat and traffic jams”

Traffic jam in Singapore? You have not experienced real traffic jams. Go ride in KL or Bangkok during peak hours for some experience. Do they not have traffic jams in Japan? In Singapore, even in the worst traffic jams, you can still split lanes and ride all the way to the front at traffic lights most of the time. On the expressways where cars are stuck, bikers can still ride at 40-50kmh while splitting lanes.

 

In any case, this is another very good example of how you have been making judgement calls or opinions without considering the facts. What do you think this thing called liquid cooled engine is all about? What is the radiator and fan for? When operating temperatures go higher due to moving slowly through traffic, isn’t it the function of the fan to lower the temperature to an acceptable temperature? Has Honda not taken all these into consideration when determining the specs for the temperature sensor i.e. at what point the fan should turn on? Doesn’t the bike come with a “High Temperature” indicator?

 

Also read about Flash Points in the All About Oil website mentioned above. Simply stated, Flash Point is the point at which oil is burnt due to high operating temperature. This has been taken into consideration when Honda recommends the correct oil grade to use depending on the ambient temperature.

 

Post # 8682

“5) Manual stated more frequent oil change as stated in the maintenance schedule when running the bike in very dusty condition. So in Singapore with so much constructions and road works, with the dirt and dust all around, we should ignore the claus stated in Page 95 of the manual and continue using its maintenance schedule?”

 

This is a good one! Thanks for the source of much amusement this past week for an acquaintance and me. This person happens to be the Course Manager – Automotive Technologies, at one of the ITEs. He concurs that Singapore can hardly be considered as dusty by any measure. Even with the construction and road works that you mentioned, on the whole, riding/driving in Singapore cannot be considered as riding under dusty conditions and car/bike manufacturers refer to as intended.

 

If anyone has been to Gelang Patah for a meal or petrol run, you would note upon exiting the North South Highway into Gelang Patah, there is a construction project going on about 600m from the exit. That road is always covered with sand and dust. Now, that is dusty. Absolutely nowhere in Singapore will you find such dusty roads. However, if you only ride on that short stretch of dusty road in Gelang Patah (300-400m) on a weekly or two to three times a month, it is not considered “dusty conditions”. On the whole, you would still be considered as riding in “normal conditions” and the air filter would take care of most of the dust particles. Whatever is the level of remaining dust particles that are too fine and manage to get past the air filter; most of it should be burnt during the combustion stage. The remnants would then be expelled as part of the exhaust. Minute levels of dust particles might get past the piston rings if the rings are not well seated. These would then take the form of silicon in the engine oil.

 

Seepage of exhaust gases past the piston rings are called blow by gases. Blow-by tends to decrease as new engines break in, then slowly increase again as an engine wears out. The purpose of the crankcase breather is to expel blow by gases into the air filter box. You can thus see that modern engines have been designed to eliminate most of the engine oil contamination that may be caused by dust.

(Google “engine blow by gases” for more info)

 

So what is “dusty” and why does Honda mention this in the manual? Think Dubai or the outback /deserts in Australia. Rural Thailand, Laos and Cambodia are dusty. In certain rural kampungs or plantations in general in Peninsula Malaysia where the roads are not paved with tarmac, that is dusty. If you ride off road often, that is you live in such a place and you ride your bike on a daily basis in such conditions, you are considered to be riding in dusty conditions. Then that clause in page 95 of Honda’s manual for Revo owners would come into play and you should adjust your OCI accordingly. This is simply because the CB400 is a commuter bike that is not meant to be used off road for any significant amount of time. If anyone uses a CB400 in dusty conditions as mentioned above, then the 12,000km OCI should be adjusted downwards to suit the conditions.

 

On the other hand if you ride an adventure bike that is built for off-road use, the bike manufacturer would already have taken into consideration that you do actually go off-road when they determine what should be the recommended OCI. Only people who don’t know better or are super kiasu would then mark down the recommended OCI to whatever interval makes them feel at ease. Thus, is this decision based on facts or is it based on the rider’s emotions (usually out of unfounded fears or kiasu-ism)?

 

Conclusion

Based on the above, IMHO the 12,000km OCI recommended by Honda is reliable.

 

If that is the case, why would I recommend that the OCI should be 10,000km? Here is where the fun comes in.

 

To begin with, Singapore is a tiny island by any measure. Most journeys are on average about 20-30km per trip. In my case, my typical daily ride is a 1.5km trip to my neighbourhood coffee shop where I spend a few hours working. About 2-3 times a week, after leaving the coffee shop, I ride another 1.5km for some grocery shopping before riding home. About 4-8 times a month, I ride about 15-20km one way for meetings. I also cross the border every 1.5 to 2 weeks for some makan and petrol. About once a month, I go on a long trip to KL and beyond.

 

Based on my typical ride between oil changes, most of the rides are short journeys. Research has shown that such short trips are harsher on the engine oil than longer trips. For this reason, I have marked down the recommended OCI by about 16.7%. More importantly, at the end of the 10,000km when it is time for an oil change, my engine still sounds good (not noisy, an indication of thin oil) and gear changes are still OK. I would be lying if I were to say that I don’t feel any difference. With the Mobil 1 I am presently using, you do begin to notice a very subtle or slight change at around 8,500km. This is most noticeable during gearshifts ever so slightly when the engine is cold. Once you get going and the engine and oil warm up to its optimum operating temperature it feels ok again.

 

Having said that and based on what I know of the data and research, this does not equate to the oil reaching anywhere near the point where it begins to start affecting the engine in terms of higher wear and tear. As indicated by gamerzdude, you can obtain confirmation of this by doing an oil analysis.

 

Based on my typical ride conditions, an OCI of 10,000km is appropriate. An old timer who uses his Spec 3 for dispatch work (higher short distance stop start rides) and has thus far clocked in excess of 220,000km has also using OCI of 10,000km. His bike has absolutely no problems and still runs well.

 

As such, for most other people who ride their Revo or other CB400s over longer distances than my typical journey, and provided you use a good fully synthetic engine oil, an OCI of 10,000km or 12,000km should be appropriate.

 

References:

Oil Analysis (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/what-is-oil-analysis.php)

All About Oil (http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html)

Bob is the Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/)

The Truth About Motorcycle Oils (http://www.post610.org/truth_about_motorcycle_oils.htm)

Motorcycle Motor Oil (http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm)

The Motor Oil Bible – Exposing the 3000 mile Oil Change Myth (Free pdf - http://hyperformancecycles.net/oil_bible.pdf)

 

Shhhh... not so loud, bro. Some people cannot take it...

 

15W40 would be better than 10W40. This would be covered in my next write up.

"Some people cannot take it" ? Dunno who you referring to

 

but just to clear your suspicion, majority revo riders accept advices and suggestions but up to them to decide their choices.

For me I accept open heartedly and would like to learn more from other forumers sharing their experiences.

And yes a lot of fellow members will vouch on that .

[SparkerS1]

Let me slowly clarify your doubts and please allow me to enquire some issues to clarify my dounts as well

 

1) May I ask which are the mechanics/shop owners you fall victim to and what unscrupulous ways they did?

 

2) Different oil change interval between major motorcycle companies.

I compared Suzuki GSXR & Honda Revo because two bikes are EFI and I own/ride them before thus making a comparison.

Please don't be misled if you feel its not justified for these two brands to be compared as it's just my opinon and choice for comparison.

There is no reason for me to ask Suzuki about their stated oil change intervals as it's my personal preference of my oil change interval and I have no issues about that too.

 

3) You mentioned that you did not insist on the 10k oil change interval but previous posts have proven otherwise which you do not need to beg to differ.

But certainly everyone is welcomed to give their opinons and share their experiences.

Regarding the Revo FAQ link, the statement is always there, guess that you miss that out and assumed I have made changes to it and falsely accusing me as biased.

From your agitated statement, you are determined to demand for justification from me for not adding other members' opinons?

Please read back to that link and see how much I have done to update till this date before giving that unconstructive comment.

And please, I am not paid to be a moderator and there are other duties I must do in maintaining the forum but I certainly will try my best in doing my part.

 

4) Regarding the status bar, anyone can input their choice of what they like to be written in their status bar.

I have the habit of changing my status bar once a while if you nv noticed that before.

I don't understand why you are so annoyed by the "Legendary Moderator" status anyways?

If I input "Supreme Moderator" means I am god of SBF? Gosh, can't a fellow member gets a bit of freedom.

 

5) Yes, everyone has their own preference and I have been mentioning that since I became a member since 2007.

That's why every terrain that a rider been through is different. Some might not even encountered dusty condition throughout their daily journey while some others do.

Everyone has a choice of which advices or suggestions to be taken.

Bottomline is Everyone has their own preference.

 

 

Got a few remaining questions to ask you to clarify from the previous page.

 

1) Regarding normal running-in, why not use the oil change interval as stated in the CB400 Revo owner's manual?

 

2)100, 300, 600, 1000km interval for running-in is way overkill isn't it?

You run in your Revo and change at such short intervals?

How sure after 1000km oil change, the metal particles are totally removed? How much RPM must be used when running-in between the oil change interval?

 

3)Manual stated used 4 stroke motorcycle oil or equivalent. Previously you mentioned can use car Engine oil and use for 10k km mileage before you change it.

So meaning you beg to differ from the manual, specially from Honda which is reputable in the automotive world producing so much motorcycles and cars?

Honda allows car EO to be used in their motorcycles instead of motorcycle EO?

No offences to you but I am just clearing my doubts

[ldslds]

UPZ for SparkerS1!!

[Lim Ah Wan]

Relax everybodeh. Everyone deserves to have their own opinions and we cannot force our opinion on others. Im sure the engineers know what they are doing when they were preparing the manual. Just follow. Dont want follow also can. Anything happen then your problem. Easy right? Hahahaha.

 

It doesnt matter if a rider has 1 year experience or 30 yrs experience. Whatever their opinions are, i feel it should be respected. If the opinion is wrong, then correct it nicely. If the rider choose to maintain his ground, let him be. Simple mah. You happy, he happy.

 

Sorry if i appear out of nowhere because i have posted here b4, so ive been receiving email notifications. When i saw some 'arguments', i decided to drop by.

 

Ride safe everyone!

[Winners]

I would say "to each his own". I've been using mineral oils during the run-in periods of my REVO, followed by semi-synthetics and currently fully synthetics, all from MOBIL. I'm even using the car version now and find it runs smoother. By the way, I've added the X-1R engine oil additive as well and probably that accounts for it partially.

 

For me, since our COEs are only for 10 years, as long as the type of engine oil used is sufficient to protect the engine for that 10 years, would be okay for me. I've also come across a few motorcycle enthusiasts who are also using car engine oils, albeit the synthetic ones, with no deterioration to their engines.

[SparkerS1]

UPZ for SparkerS1!!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge

 

Relax everybodeh. Everyone deserves to have their own opinions and we cannot force our opinion on others. Im sure the engineers know what they are doing when they were preparing the manual. Just follow. Dont want follow also can. Anything happen then your problem. Easy right? Hahahaha.

 

It doesnt matter if a rider has 1 year experience or 30 yrs experience. Whatever their opinions are, i feel it should be respected. If the opinion is wrong, then correct it nicely. If the rider choose to maintain his ground, let him be. Simple mah. You happy, he happy.

 

Sorry if i appear out of nowhere because i have posted here b4, so ive been receiving email notifications. When i saw some 'arguments', i decided to drop by.

 

Ride safe everyone!

Welcome you to share your feedback. It's a discussion but in the end my status bar got into implicated

Thanks for sharing your thought

 

I would say "to each his own". I've been using mineral oils during the run-in periods of my REVO, followed by semi-synthetics and currently fully synthetics, all from MOBIL. I'm even using the car version now and find it runs smoother. By the way, I've added the X-1R engine oil additive as well and probably that accounts for it partially.

 

For me, since our COEs are only for 10 years, as long as the type of engine oil used is sufficient to protect the engine for that 10 years, would be okay for me. I've also come across a few motorcycle enthusiasts who are also using car engine oils, albeit the synthetic ones, with no deterioration to their engines.

Thanks for sharing your experience

[StrongBow]

5) Yes, everyone has their own preference and I have been mentioning that since I became a member since 2007.

That's why every terrain that a rider been through is different. Some might not even encountered dusty condition throughout their daily journey while some others do.

Everyone has a choice of which advices or suggestions to be taken.

Bottomline is Everyone has their own preference.

 

I think what ramsnake is trying to say about "everyone has their own preference" or "to each his own" is that if the RIDER WANTS to change his engine oil at earlier intervals to satisfy his own kiasuness or just because he or she feels rich, then let other people know that your reasons are simply because you are "kiasu" or "feeling rich". Do not in another sense, put it in such a way that your MOTORCYCLE NEEDS the oil changes. I believe bottom line is he know what he is talking about, he has knowledge and references to back him up, and he feels like you should not mislead other people.

[SparkerS1]

What was the reason for the formulation change to the Mobil 1 Racing 4Tâ„¢ 10W-40?

 

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is an internationally available product and, as such, represents advanced global technology. With the release of the recent JASO motorcycle standard (MA 2006), an opportunity was presented to again upgrade the Mobil 1 Racing 4T formulation such that it continues to meet and/or exceed the latest industry and OEM standards for motorcycles.

 

 

So how is Mobil 1â„¢ synthetic motor oil for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for motorcycles?

 

First, let's be clear about the overall benefits of Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil compared to those of conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:

 

Superior long-term engine protection.

Superior high-temperature stability.

Excellent low-temperature starting.

Outstanding engine performance.

Low volatility/low oil consumption.

 

It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1 passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the two Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:

 

Additive packages balanced differently for motorcycle engine and transmission operation. For passenger vehicles, fuel economy and emission system protection are higher priorities. These require low phosphorus systems and the use of friction modifiers. Motorcycle oils do not require friction modifiers for fuel economy and for better clutch friction less/no friction modifier is optimum. Motorcycle oils allow the use of higher levels of antiwear additives such as ZDDP (phosphorous).

(Updated December 2007)

 

 

What are the overall advantages of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils?

 

In addition to the overall benefits listed above – specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption – Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year.

 

Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils provide superior wear and high-temperature protection, and promote engine cleanliness and lower oil consumption.

 

Once you get past these general advantages, you have to deal with each specific motorcycle oil one at a time to understand the benefits.

 

 

Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for cars does not?

 

Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 motor oil has no friction modifiers, which could lead to clutch slippage.

 

The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear protection at high engine speeds and high loads.

 

In addition, Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 has a high performance dispersant/detergent technology for better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 is also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars. (Updated December 2007)

 

The owner's manual says I should change the oil every 5,000 miles or once a year. I change my oil every 2,500 miles or twice a year. So why do I need that kind of protection?

 

For peace of mind and added protection. You pay a lot for a bike these days, so why risk running your engine in ordinary oil? Just like Mobil 1 synthetic oil for cars, Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oil helps keep your engine clean – free from varnish and deposits – and smooth running mile after mile, no matter what conditions you ride in.

 

Mobil 1 oil benefits engine life and performance. In fact, the lubrication capability of Mobil 1 motorcycle oil helps maintain peak horsepower and acceleration throughout the life of your engine. And with Mobil 1 motorcycle oils you can go the full 5,000 miles between oil changes.

 

So, if you want to ride your bike long and hard and not be concerned about the oil, choose Mobil 1 motorcycle oil.

 

Taken from http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Motorcycle_Oil_FAQs.aspx#FAQs1

[SparkerS1]

I think what ramsnake is trying to say about "everyone has their own preference" or "to each his own" is that if the RIDER WANTS to change his engine oil at earlier intervals to satisfy his own kiasuness or just because he or she feels rich, then let other people know that your reasons are simply because you are "kiasu" or "feeling rich". Do not in another sense, put it in such a way that your MOTORCYCLE NEEDS the oil changes. I believe bottom line is he know what he is talking about, he has knowledge and references to back him up, and he feels like you should not mislead other people.

 

Is it really about kiasuness or "feels rich"?

No concrete references to back me up? Here is the above post for all to believe and clear the misconception once and for all.

 

Have I mislead other people? I don't know what I talking about?

Let the people read and decide for themselves

 

I am a low-profile person, no need for me to list out my experience/knowledge in technical/mechanical field to impress others.

[Hydher]

10 000 km for an oil change in singapore on a motorcycle? Nooo way for me man!!

My sym magic manuals even states 1000km!

My gsxr 1000 states 6000km but i do them at 5000km.

Many of us do not have access to a used oil analysis nor will it be necessary lah so i dont think you can find a definite answer here.

But thanks for sharing. Perhaps technology is moving forward? Its nice to know you and your despatch friend push your oil changes and your bike still runs fine. I always believed as long as oil levels are on a safe level you can stretch your Eo changes. But i change them anyway. They are cheap insurance against a spoilt engine.

 

Following the manual at times are the best way to do so but im sceptical at 12 000km. I will never do so.

If you dont consider singapore dusty and extreme conditions, I envy your lifestyle and route.

 

SparkerS1 have always had a constructive guides for newbies thats hard to go wrong if you follow.

I doubt majority of bikers can accept oil changes at 10 000km.

[ramsnake]

It is clear from my post #8723 that I am talking about Oil Change Intervals and only this topic for the moment due to time constraints. Isn’t it obvious from the title and the contents of my post? If it is still not apparent, my next post #8723, wherein I stated that I will cover the 2 topic of “Running In” and “Car/Commercial Vehicle Oils vs Motorcycle Oils” in the next instalment. Should be clear enough isn’t it?

 

Why is it that you guys just can’t stick to one point of discussion and conclude that one point? Why jump all over the place? Are you trying to confuse people?

Do note that I am still talking about Oil Change Intervals here.

@ldslds – If you still do not understand what grey matter is, there is thing called Google. Give it a try some time.

On the matter of the battery condition, go read my post again.

 

 

Let me slowly clarify your doubts and please allow me to enquire some issues to clarify my dounts as well

 

1) May I ask which are the mechanics/shop owners you fall victim to and what unscrupulous ways they did?

 

Which mechanic or shop is besides the point and it is also none of your business. Suffice to say, one of those sources of mis-information is people like you with a title behind their name.

 

2) Different oil change interval between major motorcycle companies.

I compared Suzuki GSXR & Honda Revo because two bikes are EFI and I own/ride them before thus making a comparison.

Please don't be misled if you feel its not justified for these two brands to be compared as it's just my opinon and choice for comparison.

There is no reason for me to ask Suzuki about their stated oil change intervals as it's my personal preference of my oil change interval and I have no issues about that too.

 

Huh??? What are you trying to say?

Simply because you have owned a GSXR and Revo are they suitable for comparison purposes with regards to the matter being discussed i.e. Oil Change Intervals? Apple to apple; like for like comparison?

 

Those two bikes you owned and ride before being EFI bikes is not a valid reason to compare the two. If you still choose to say it’s ok to compare them, you still have not answered my question as to why you are ignoring the fact that the CBR100RR and Panigale, both being EFI bikes, have 12,000km OCIs like the Revo.

 

Other than the fact that you happened to have owned a GSXR which had a 6,000km, which somehow seems to justify your 4,500km OCI for the Revo, are there any other facts to back up your 4,500km OCI? Do remember that this is a 62.5% mark down of the manufacturer recommended OCI?

 

3) You mentioned that you did not insist on the 10k oil change interval but previous posts have proven otherwise which you do not need to beg to differ.

 

What is this about? Is this about you insisting or about me insisting?

Do quote the post where you say I am insisting.

 

But certainly everyone is welcomed to give their opinons and share their experiences.

Regarding the Revo FAQ link, the statement is always there, guess that you miss that out and assumed I have made changes to it and falsely accusing me as biased.

From your agitated statement, you are determined to demand for justification from me for not adding other members' opinons?

Please read back to that link and see how much I have done to update till this date before giving that unconstructive comment.

And please, I am not paid to be a moderator and there are other duties I must do in maintaining the forum but I certainly will try my best in doing my part.

 

I now see that the “don’t argue with me about my OCI” statement is still there. I apologise for not seeing it earlier. However, I stand by my statement that as a moderator, merely stating your own practice of changing oils at 4,500km AND telling people not to argue with you on this, is in fact biased.

Agitated? Of course I’m agitated! Again, we are talking about Oil Change Intervals here, so please stick to the point.

 

This is the second time you are emphasising the fact that you are not paid to be a moderator. What has this got to do with anything? Are you trying to hint that you should be paid? Are also saying that you will only accept feedback or criticisms if you are paid?

 

4) Regarding the status bar, anyone can input their choice of what they like to be written in their status bar.

I have the habit of changing my status bar once a while if you nv noticed that before.

I don't understand why you are so annoyed by the "Legendary Moderator" status anyways?

If I input "Supreme Moderator" means I am god of SBF? Gosh, can't a fellow member gets a bit of freedom.

 

It is apparent that you don’t get it. Do read the relevant paragraphs of my post #8722 again where I touched on the significance of being a moderator on this forum and more importantly, the responsibility that goes with the job.

 

5) Yes, everyone has their own preference and I have been mentioning that since I became a member since 2007.

That's why every terrain that a rider been through is different. Some might not even encountered dusty condition throughout their daily journey while some others do.

Everyone has a choice of which advices or suggestions to be taken.

Bottomline is Everyone has their own preference.

 

So, a newbie asks for advice on what he/she should do with regards to Oil Change Intervals, what does “own preference mean”? Where are the facts? Suka suka change? LMAO!!!

Where is the opposing view so that he or she can make an informed judgement?

The worst case is a newbie going straight to the FAQ and sees your by now infamous “don’t argue with me” statement. Is that good advise and grounded in facts or just an “I feel should be like that, so like that lor…” kind of advise?

 

 

Got a few remaining questions to ask you to clarify from the previous page.

 

1) Regarding normal running-in, why not use the oil change interval as stated in the CB400 Revo owner's manual?

 

2)100, 300, 600, 1000km interval for running-in is way overkill isn't it?

You run in your Revo and change at such short intervals?

How sure after 1000km oil change, the metal particles are totally removed? How much RPM must be used when running-in between the oil change interval?

 

3)Manual stated used 4 stroke motorcycle oil or equivalent. Previously you mentioned can use car Engine oil and use for 10k km mileage before you change it.

So meaning you beg to differ from the manual, specially from Honda which is reputable in the automotive world producing so much motorcycles and cars?

Honda allows car EO to be used in their motorcycles instead of motorcycle EO?

No offences to you but I am just clearing my doubts

 

 

Refer to this again!

[ramsnake]

10 000 km for an oil change in singapore on a motorcycle? Nooo way for me man!!

My sym magic manuals even states 1000km!

My gsxr 1000 states 6000km but i do them at 5000km.

Many of us do not have access to a used oil analysis nor will it be necessary lah so i dont think you can find a definite answer here.

But thanks for sharing. Perhaps technology is moving forward? Its nice to know you and your despatch friend push your oil changes and your bike still runs fine. I always believed as long as oil levels are on a safe level you can stretch your Eo changes. But i change them anyway. They are cheap insurance against a spoilt engine.

 

Following the manual at times are the best way to do so but im sceptical at 12 000km. I will never do so.

If you dont consider singapore dusty and extreme conditions, I envy your lifestyle and route.

 

SparkerS1 have always had a constructive guides for newbies thats hard to go wrong if you follow.

I doubt majority of bikers can accept oil changes at 10 000km.

 

Again, when comparing something to another, one must always compare like to like. So, 1,000km for your Sym (really??) is not a good comparison against the Revo.

 

Although the manual recommends 12,000km OCI, you mentioned that you are sceptical and will never do so. The question is whether your decision is justifiable by facts and the laws of physics or is your decision based on what you have been conditioned to do and accept or is it based on some fears you may have although the data and research indicate otherwise?

 

Just like you, I live in the tiny island called Singapore, so there is nothing to envy about my lifestyle or my normal daily route. The fact is that Singapore cannot be considered as "dusty" as intended by the manufacturer in the manual.

[Hydher]

Im sorry if the example of my ridiculous oci manual stated sym magic doesnt compare well to your revo.

Maybe the gsxr 1000 is too far ahead to be compared with too.

 

You dont have to be living in the extremes of a desert or a non moving traffic to fall in the condition of "change earlier if ridden in dusty or extreme conditions".

To me, singapore is dusty and the jams is terrible I dont need rocket science to justify my every judgment. Singapore may be small but we might not ride the same way or travel the same road at the same times.

 

My bike hits 220 farenheit which is close to the upper limit of the machine almost 70% of my rides(but hey its a gsxr1000)

The engine oil also looks like crap on my inferior sym magic at 1000km and my gsxr at 5000km.

I dont own a super 4 revo but i will never do 12 000 on the current bikes that I own. Maybe the technology is better?

 

Sorry we dont have scientific proof and i dont think you can find unbiased oil analysis too easily.

If your scientific proof is the manual and you dont find singapore dusty or extreme, Its your bike anyway and thanks for sharing. At least I learned that there are people out there doing that with no problems.

 

Oh yes, the manual doesnt tell you to check your engine oil levels at all.

I call that crazy.

[ramsnake]

Im sorry if the example of my ridiculous oci manual stated sym magic doesnt compare well to your revo.

Maybe the gsxr 1000 is too far ahead to be compared with too.

 

You dont have to be living in the extremes of a desert or a non moving traffic to fall in the condition of "change earlier if ridden in dusty or extreme conditions".

To me, singapore is dusty and the jams is terrible I dont need rocket science to justify my every judgment. Singapore may be small but we might not ride the same way or travel the same road at the same times.

 

My bike hits 220 farenheit which is close to the upper limit of the machine almost 70% of my rides(but hey its a gsxr1000)

The engine oil also looks like crap on my inferior sym magic at 1000km and my gsxr at 5000km.

I dont own a super 4 revo but i will never do 12 000 on the current bikes that I own. Maybe the technology is better?

 

Sorry we dont have scientific proof and i dont think you can find unbiased oil analysis too easily.

If your scientific proof is the manual and you dont find singapore dusty or extreme, Its your bike anyway and thanks for sharing. At least I learned that there are people out there doing that with no problems.

 

Oh yes, the manual doesnt tell you to check your engine oil levels at all.

I call that crazy.

 

No worries and thanks for you input, @Hydher. It is refreshing indeed to to have some constructive discussion taking place here.

 

I had missed your mentioning OCI for your GSXR. Changing your oil at 5k when the manual recommends 6k is fine. This is exactly my point. You would note that I too marked down the OCI for my bike from 12k to 10k, which is about 16%. This is a judgement call as I have explained based on my typical ride conditions and I think marking down the manufacturer's OCI by 15-20% is not an issue as owners need to adjust according to their typical ride conditions.

 

Now here is the rub. I would say that the Mobil 1 oil is a good oil for the price of $20/litre. Now, if this oil can be used for 10k on the Revo, how can anyone justify marking down the OCI for a $33/litre oil by 62.5%? Surely that $33/litre oil should be equal to, if not 40% (based on the price) better than the $20 oil?

 

I just can't wrap my head around that one...

 

BTW, the Revo manual does recommend we check the oil level. But then, they state "check each day before riding". Major overkill...

[ldslds]

@ldslds – If you still do not understand what grey matter is, there is thing called Google. Give it a try some time.

On the matter of the battery condition, go read my post again

 

yo mate, I do understand what do your 'grey matter' means in term of the accusing and when i agreeed to what you have mentiones..... what does that got to do with google?

 

on the matter of battery condition, i am asking you how does your bike determine the condition of your battery, i have read your posts over and over again but was unable to find the answer....

[Winners]

I have set my OCI at 10,000km using MOBIL 1 (0W-40) fully synthetic oil (car version). Anyway, I'm just a low usage rider, clocking an average of about 8,000km annually on my REVO. 1 thing I believe is the X-1R engine oil additive. It really helps to smoothen the engine. I'm even using it for my car.

 

I'm a DIY and when I change my engine oil, I'll also replace the air filter, oil filter and spark plugs at the 10,000km interval. I think these are the least I can do for my ride. I'd also check my brake pads at 10,000km intervals. On a side note, contrary to the usual practice, I don't replace my radiator coolant nor brake oil unless necessary. Especially for the radiator coolant, I see no reason to flush and replace when the color of the coolant is still in good condition.

 

Previously, I used to ride a SUZUKI RG150, a 2-stroke engine for almost 10 years. I'd also used the MOBIL 1 fully synthetic oil (car version) for its transmission oil and experienced no clutch slipping at all. I know 2-stroke engines use a separate 2T oil for engine lubrication and hence, is not similar to that of the 4-stroke engine, but my point here is that I don't experience any clutch slippage despite using a car version engine oil. It had been like this for my 10 years of owning the RG150. I'd also never change its coolant and it had never given me any overheating problem at all. Only rarely do I need to top up with pure distilled water although it's only in minute amount. The problem why I had to let go was due to the loss of power due to normal engine wear and tear. After about 85,000km mileage, it is natural that most 2-stroke single cylinder engines will behave in the same manner if no overhaul (cylinder boring and installing of new piston rings) is made on the engine.

 

It may be true that motorcycle engine oils may have a slight advantage over the car engine oils, but I don't believe in paying so much more for the former, especially if the bike is not used for tracking and/or racing. Besides, most of us (especially for me) will be using our bikes for at most 10 years, owing to the COE limitation (presuming no extension being made), so I think a reliable engine oil to last this period is more than adequate. It need not be the best. Cost efficiency would still have to be considered in today's tight budgeting.

 

The above are just my own personal views.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Winners

[StrongBow]

The engine oil also looks like crap on my inferior sym magic at 1000km and my gsxr at 5000km.

I dont own a super 4 revo but i will never do 12 000 on the current bikes that I own. Maybe the technology is better?

 

Hello buddy. Good morning. If you and the rest of you could take some time to read up on some of the references that bro ramsnake has took the time to find and post up before targetting him regarding "what the manual states", that would be great. From one of the references, it states that the "looks or colour" of your engine oil is never a good enough indicator that your engine oil should be changed.

 

I guess the reason why he stated "referring to the manual" is because the manual is something most of us have access to, and is also the OEM recommended OCI.

 

Likewise if you guys could find any references to explain why engine oil needs to be changed every 5,000kms i would be glad to read it up.

 

Again emphasizing that "RIDER WANTS" and "BIKE NEEDS" are very different points of views.

[Winners]

Actually, if one is mechanically observant, you can really "hear and feel" the performance of your engine if there is a deterioration. This is especially so if you have been using the same bike for a substantial period. Ditto for my car engine also.

 

Before my REVO, I had a CB400 Spec 3. Once I tried to switch to the MAXIMA engine oil. After about 3,000km, I find the engine began to run rough and heavy. Immediately I replaced the engine oil after that. So, despite the good reviews for this oil, it is just not suitable for me.

 

The best engine oil I've used is the OMEGA brand. No other additive is required when using this oil, but it is damned expensive. Also, there seems to be no more distributor for this oil locally now.

[breadman]

Super sian.. yesterday went to change a rubber seal at the gearbox area as it was leaking a few drops overnight, now leak become worse, a small puddle overnight.. mech told me need to overhaul to change another seal..

 

My brain is telling me that this logically cannot happen, how can you open, clean and replace a seal to see more leakage..

 

After the overhaul and if the leak still happens, sure super heartpain..

 

Damn sian.. also got coolant leak from one of the hose.. pocket burn big hole time...

 

Anyone got reliable and reasonably priced mech to recommend? I recently bought this spec1..

[JbAtRaCeR]

Super sian.. yesterday went to change a rubber seal at the gearbox area as it was leaking a few drops overnight, now leak become worse, a small puddle overnight.. mech told me need to overhaul to change another seal..

 

My brain is telling me that this logically cannot happen, how can you open, clean and replace a seal to see more leakage..

 

After the overhaul and if the leak still happens, sure super heartpain..

 

Damn sian.. also got coolant leak from one of the hose.. pocket burn big hole time...

 

Anyone got reliable and reasonably priced mech to recommend? I recently bought this spec1..

 

Personally i dont think need to overhaul the engine just to change a seal..i know there's a way to "kiao" the seal out and push in a new seal on the sprocket's shaft coz i myself am a mechanic...try consulting bikeworks..they know what to do..

[breadman]

Personally i dont think need to overhaul the engine just to change a seal..i know there's a way to "kiao" the seal out and push in a new seal on the sprocket's shaft coz i myself am a mechanic...try consulting bikeworks..they know what to do..

 

yup, the mech has already done that yesterday.

but what was a few drops overnight became a small puddle after changing that seal. the mech did say beforehand that if the leak still occurs after changing this seal, need to overhaul to change a small sprocket seal or something like that..

 

by the way, do you have the location of bikeworks? can't find them on advertiser board or google.

Edited April 24, 2013 by breadman

[SparkerS1]

Why is it that you guys just can’t stick to one point of discussion and conclude that one point? Why jump all over the place? Are you trying to confuse people?

 

Those two bikes you owned and ride before being EFI bikes is not a valid reason to compare the two. If you still choose to say it’s ok to compare them, you still have not answered my question as to why you are ignoring the fact that the CBR100RR and Panigale, both being EFI bikes, have 12,000km OCIs like the Revo.

 

Other than the fact that you happened to have owned a GSXR which had a 6,000km, which somehow seems to justify your 4,500km OCI for the Revo, are there any other facts to back up your 4,500km OCI? Do remember that this is a 62.5% mark down of the manufacturer recommended OCI?

 

What is this about? Is this about you insisting or about me insisting?

Do quote the post where you say I am insisting.

 

Again, we are talking about Oil Change Intervals here, so please stick to the point.

 

Are also saying that you will only accept feedback or criticisms if you are paid?

 

It is apparent that you don’t get it. Do read the relevant paragraphs of my post #8722 again where I touched on the significance of being a moderator on this forum and more importantly, the responsibility that goes with the job.

 

1) I don't know about the rest of the members but the discussion is about Engine oil & its oil change interval isn't it?

Every member has his/her thoughts/experience/questions to share and it's their freedom to do so.

 

2) You missed out the post again even thou you have quote that particular paragraph, or you don't even bother read it before quoting it at all in the first place?

I never own a CBR1000RR or a Ducati Panigale before, so why should I compare between these bikes out of nowhere?

I compared between a CB400 & DRZ400SM and give my feedbacks & views about it. It's to share the differences with people so they can make their choices.

 

3) I nv state my EO change at 4500km before, so why you keep insisting that?

Weird to keep generalizing according to your preception and assumption.

 

4) No need to quote any posts, let the people read up the past 3pages of thread to check it out.

 

5) Yes. So who is out of point going to the extend of cyber-abuse?

 

6) Something new I learnt today that is Moderators are deserved to be criticised despite their efforts and hardwork.

 

7) You have been mentioning about Moderator again and again.

My Info link has been around since 07/08 when I am a normal member as everyone else.

Everyone now knows what you are driving and directing at, so no need to keep emphasising that alright.

[JbAtRaCeR]

yup, the mech has already done that yesterday.

but what was a few drops overnight became a small puddle after changing that seal. the mech did say beforehand that if the leak still occurs after changing this seal, need to overhaul to change a small sprocket seal or something like that..

 

by the way, do you have the location of bikeworks? can't find them on advertiser board or google.

 

Bikeworks located at 10,kaki bukit road 2..#01-24...forget the building name....

[breadman]

Bikeworks located at 10,kaki bukit road 2..#01-24...forget the building name....

 

Thanks bro