Track Tyres, Class 2 bikes.

[ulysses_sc]

Originally posted by nE0@Jan 9 2006, 12:14 AM

I'm more worried about the warmup times of the more sporty tyres, like Pirelli Diablo Corsa, Dunlop 208RR, Michelin Pilot Powers etc. I like to go touring, so quick warmup is important especially on mountain twisties.

 

Street tyres like 014s warmup pretty quick, but can overheat when pushed on the track. Difficult decision!!

Get another set of wheels from Ebay. Headache solved.

[Zer0]

Its pretty hot here so even race oriented tyres will warm up very quickly. Only time I have had problem with race tyres taking a while to warm up is at the track in temps around 15 degrees or less, even then only takes 2 laps or so to get them going.

 

Dragon Supercorsa and Supercorsa are the same time.

 

The full name on the tyre is Pirelli Dragon Supercorsa. Comes in SC1,2,3 compounds.

 

The Metzeler Rennsport is exactly the same tyre as the Supercorsa with just a very slightly different pattern to the tread and the different brand printed on the side. They are owned by the same company, manufactured in the same place using the same rubber and construction methods. Also available in 1,2,3 compounds.

 

So if you get can get the Metzelers cheaper go for it and save some cash. Pirelli generally have a higher markup as you pay for the name.

 

Either Rennsport or Supercorsa are fantastic and the best gripping road tyres I have tried on the track. I usually go for a front tyre one grade softer than the rear, so SC1 front and SC2 rear. This gives a little more grip at the front but also means that your front and rear will wear out about the same time so you can put a fresh set on. Particularly on big bikes that really chew up the rear tyre.

[Guest nE0]

Originally posted by ulysses_sc@Jan 9 2006, 09:07 AM

Get another set of wheels from Ebay. Headache solved.

Well, I don't think mine will come cheap.

 

Y spoke forged aluminium Marchesini rims + brake discs + rear sprocket, would cost more than 3k altogether. Even bigger headache, but I really like the idea!

 

Anyway, I've decided to get a pair of Pirelli Diablo Corsas. I'm sure they will be great on the track, but if they're not good at twisties, then I think I'll go back to street tyres.

 

Anyway, 120/70 and 190/50 costs me $540.

[nocturnized]

i wonder how much this will cost ??

 

M-3

[Guest nE0]

Sounds like a promising tyre.... Hope they bring in the 190 sizes too!

[clubhead]

Originally posted by Zer0@Jan 9 2006, 11:48 AM

...The Metzeler Rennsport is exactly the same tyre as the Supercorsa with just a very slightly different pattern ...

Anyone knows the difference between the Rennsports and the Sportec? I know the Sportec is newer for one. There was a recent review of tires by one of the UK mags and the Rennsports came in very well. They didn't test the Sportec though. Is the Sportec meant to replace the Rennsportrs?

 

I'm deciding bet the 2...

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by clubhead@Jan 10 2006, 12:04 AM

Anyone knows the difference between the Rennsports and the Sportec? I know the Sportec is newer for one. There was a recent review of tires by one of the UK mags and the Rennsports came in very well. They didn't test the Sportec though. Is the Sportec meant to replace the Rennsportrs?

 

I'm deciding bet the 2...

U mean the RaceTech??? Sportec M1 is a High Performance Sports Tyre, it's still a street tyre. RennSports is a race tyre, comes in 3 compounds. RaceTech is the latest race tyre from Metzeller and everyone is full of praise for it after trying it out at PG. Also comes in 3 compounds.

 

RennSports is getting phase out, and RaceTech is taking over the local market even the Europe side is still selling the RennSports.

 

Most track riders on RaceTech previously are on RennSports and all prefered RaceTech.

[TooToo7]

Anyone tried Pilot Powers ?

 

[Guest nE0]

Originally posted by eSPy`56@Jan 10 2006, 09:28 AM

Anyone tried Pilot Powers ?

 

I wanted to try, but the agent didn't seem to want to reply. But reviews say its a very good street + Sport tyre. One up would be the Power Race.

 

But like all sporty tyres, they sacrifice stability for agility.

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by nE0@Jan 10 2006, 02:14 PM

I wanted to try, but the agent didn't seem to want to reply. But reviews say its a very good street + Sport tyre. One up would be the Power Race.

 

But like all sporty tyres, they sacrifice stability for agility.

Power Race is a race tyre. Pls do not use race tyres unless going to track once in a while or all the while. Not worth the money to use on normal street and they do not warm up enuff. A lot of magazine test riders also advise against using race tyres for sunday twisties or street riding. Race tyres -----> Track use, Period.

 

Neo, your choice of DC is good!!! But would you be willing to try the 180/55-17 for the aft wheel instead of the 190/50-17??? Would be nicer to flick the bike, and actually more contact on the tyres because of the profile. No joke, ask RedRocket, and Raptor. They tried 190 and 180 before.

[TooToo7]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@Jan 10 2006, 04:32 PM

Power Race is a race tyre. Pls do not use race tyres unless going to track once in a while or all the while. Not worth the money to use on normal street and they do not warm up enuff. A lot of magazine test riders also advise against using race tyres for sunday twisties or street riding. Race tyres -----> Track use, Period.

 

Neo, your choice of DC is good!!! But would you be willing to try the 180/55-17 for the aft wheel instead of the 190/50-17??? Would be nicer to flick the bike, and actually more contact on the tyres because of the profile. No joke, ask RedRocket, and Raptor. They tried 190 and 180 before.

190/55 .. hehe, isn't this the best compromise of both worlds ?

 

[Guest nE0]

190/55... Only the new Dunlop Qualifiers have this profile. The newer street tyres (Dunlop Qualifiers, Bridgestone BT-015, Michelin Pilot Powers, Metzeler Sportec M3 ) looks very nice on paper, too bad they are so new, and so difficult to get!

 

Hilary > I dunno about contact patch, but if the bike comes stock with 190s, and magazines test tyres with 190s, I'm sure theres a reason behind it. The duc flicks from side to side faster than I dare to already, but I'm looking for better stability and confidence mid-corner. I'll swap the rear for a 180 after I destroy this one, which is pretty soon I suspect, based on how fast my Sportec M1 dissappeared.

 

I'm worried about the warmup time needed on Diablo Corsas, because I really love attacking twisties, not much fun if the tyres are cold and don't give confidence. If they don't work well, I'll go back to street tyres. Hopefully by then the newer street tyres are available.

[clubhead]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@Jan 10 2006, 04:56 AM

U mean the RaceTech??? Sportec M1 is a High Performance Sports Tyre, it's still a street tyre. RennSports is a race tyre, comes in 3 compounds. RaceTech is the latest race tyre from Metzeller and everyone is full of praise for it after trying it out at PG. Also comes in 3 compounds.

 

RennSports is getting phase out, and RaceTech is taking over the local market even the Europe side is still selling the RennSports.

 

Most track riders on RaceTech previously are on RennSports and all prefered RaceTech.

Thanks for the clarifications RaceTech it is for me!

 

I'm told although some OEM tyres are good enough for the track (BT-014), they can't last up to the multiple heat cycle. I assume the heat cycle is what the tyre goes through after they heat up on track and cool down. Does it mean that most OEM tyres will perform 1st time they're used on the track but after the heat cycle, will lose much of their desired qualities?

[Raptor]

Originally posted by clubhead@Jan 10 2006, 07:02 PM

Thanks for the clarifications RaceTech it is for me!

 

I'm told although some OEM tyres are good enough for the track (BT-014), they can't last up to the multiple heat cycle. I assume the heat cycle is what the tyre goes through after they heat up on track and cool down. Does it mean that most OEM tyres will perform 1st time they're used on the track but after the heat cycle, will lose much of their desired qualities?

I have personally seen more guys crash at PG because of BT014 more than any other tyres. BT014 seem to suit the lighter machines, eg 400cc.

 

What is good for the street is not good for the track. There is no such thing as a tyre that is good for both, period. You just need to pay for the peace of mind.

 

I have used Racetecs for up to 8 sessions, and I am on set number 4.

[hockie69]

Originally posted by Raptor@Jan 10 2006, 10:12 PM

I have personally seen more guys crash at PG because of BT014 more than any other tyres. BT014 seem to suit the lighter machines, eg 400cc.

ur advise needed.

 

can share ur feel on my querys?

 

as stated in the rider manual.BT014 were one of the "replacement" model for a honda 600 bike.

 

do u feel it "enough" for normal street use?

 

of course...GO track use track tire...thats logic.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by hockie69@Jan 10 2006, 10:41 PM

ur advise needed.

 

can share ur feel on my querys?

 

as stated in the rider manual.BT014 were one of the "replacement" model for a honda 600 bike.

 

do u feel it "enough" for normal street use?

 

of course...GO track use track tire...thats logic.

I have seen a 600cc get highsided when the rear end lost grip whilst powering out of the corner.

 

The tyre was BT014.

 

I guess the tyre should be good for road use... but not for track when you are going to push it. Push it as in fast enough to knee down in the corners.

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by nE0@Jan 10 2006, 05:43 PM

190/55... Only the new Dunlop Qualifiers have this profile. The newer street tyres (Dunlop Qualifiers, Bridgestone BT-015, Michelin Pilot Powers, Metzeler Sportec M3 ) looks very nice on paper, too bad they are so new, and so difficult to get!

 

Hilary > I dunno about contact patch, but if the bike comes stock with 190s, and magazines test tyres with 190s, I'm sure theres a reason behind it. The duc flicks from side to side faster than I dare to already, but I'm looking for better stability and confidence mid-corner. I'll swap the rear for a 180 after I destroy this one, which is pretty soon I suspect, based on how fast my Sportec M1 dissappeared.

 

I'm worried about the warmup time needed on Diablo Corsas, because I really love attacking twisties, not much fun if the tyres are cold and don't give confidence. If they don't work well, I'll go back to street tyres. Hopefully by then the newer street tyres are available.

Used a set of DC before, I can tell you this tyre warms up fast. They are not those "cold" tyres to expect, that's for sure The thing about this DC is that, it's a very good street tyre, but yet still good enuff to have some fun on the track, compared to other HP Sports like Sportec M1, BT014, Dunlop D208ZR, etc....It's in the range of BT012SS, Pilot Sports. Great for street, okay for track. But they are not race tyres as per say....still considered HP Sports, but the "elite" class

 

Again, refer to RedRocket for his feedback...he used 2 sets of DC before swapping for race tyres.

 

Hey, I thought most magazines actually puts on a 180/55-17 to test the 999??? Because of the rim size (not here not there), which many feel "pinching" in any 190s is going to ruin it's intended profile. And quite some magazines also wonder about why 999 comes stock with 190s....

 

No flaming intended.

[Guest nE0]

Well, there was a period of time where all Ducatis came with Diablo Corsas. Now they switched to Michelin Pilot Powers.

 

190...180... I dunno, when its fitted I'll see if it goes alright. I'm not that good a rider to feel the difference anyway, what I need is confident and good feel in the tyres.

[hockie69]

Originally posted by Raptor@Jan 10 2006, 10:53 PM

I have seen a 600cc get highsided when the rear end lost grip whilst powering out of the corner.

 

The tyre was BT014.

 

I guess the tyre should be good for road use... but not for track when you are going to push it. Push it as in fast enough to knee down in the corners.

i see..........

 

which means the tire were design more for normal street use then track going condition.yeah.

 

would u recken that the M1 would be a suitable choice for a 600 use on street w min track use?

 

thanks for the headz up.

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by nE0@Jan 10 2006, 05:43 PM

190/55... Only the new Dunlop Qualifiers have this profile. The newer street tyres (Dunlop Qualifiers, Bridgestone BT-015, Michelin Pilot Powers, Metzeler Sportec M3 ) looks very nice on paper, too bad they are so new, and so difficult to get!

 

So far I read the infos, BT015 & Sportec M3 both seems to be street and track days tyres.

 

Dunlop Qualifier still no balck and white to say trackday tyres still....

 

Pilot Powers, with the price in sg for this street tyre (also dunno advisable for trackdays or not, but Pilot Sports and Pilot Sports Cup are), one could get themselves a pair of race tyres which solves everything.

 

Hope BT015 comes in soon.....the BT002 race tyres never make it here in Sg :sian: and even the BT002 Pro also came out already.

 

What is our Bridgeston dealer in Sg doing?????

[NoLogicOne]

Originally posted by hockie69@Jan 11 2006, 09:48 AM

i see..........

 

which means the tire were design more for normal street use then track going condition.yeah.

 

would u recken that the M1 would be a suitable choice for a 600 use on street w min track use?

 

thanks for the headz up.

Sportec M1 can use, for some fun riding.....not for use to chase down frens in track or trying to outbrake your frens after the straights.....

 

Even given race tyres, a rider also have to ease off once he/she felt the tyres are starting to go.

 

Tyres recomendation can be treading on thin ice.....anything happens, flame war starts.....

 

Anyways, couple of my frens using Sportec M1 for track. All timings are above 2 mins, considered as fun riders on track. Sportec M1 works for them.

[Wayang]

Originally posted by Raptor@Jan 10 2006, 10:12 PM

I have personally seen more guys crash at PG because of BT014 more than any other tyres. BT014 seem to suit the lighter machines, eg 400cc.

 

What is good for the street is not good for the track. There is no such thing as a tyre that is good for both, period. You just need to pay for the peace of mind.

 

I have used Racetecs for up to 8 sessions, and I am on set number 4.

i wonder izit becos quite a no. of the current jap sportsbikes come wif oem 014s.. but anyway from wat i heard and read 014s r definitely not the tyres u wld wanna try to push ur luck on..

[hockie69]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@Jan 11 2006, 03:27 PM

Tyres recomendation can be treading on thin ice.....anything happens, flame war starts.....

oh...no worrys. i aint the finger pointing type.(but wait..my pinky broken due to a off-road track race on a ktm way back yrs)...so nothing to break liao.

 

i just want to gather whether the M1 tire are "suitable" to go min track.(maybe 1~2 a year?)

 

rest of time...spend on street...from pt A ~pt B.

[Lion]

Originally posted by NoLogicOne@Jan 11 2006, 03:27 PM

Sportec M1 can use, for some fun riding.....not for use to chase down frens in track or trying to outbrake your frens after the straights.....

 

Even given race tyres, a rider also have to ease off once he/she felt the tyres are starting to go.

 

Tyres recomendation can be treading on thin ice.....anything happens, flame war starts.....

 

Anyways, couple of my frens using Sportec M1 for track. All timings are above 2 mins, considered as fun riders on track. Sportec M1 works for them.

Take it from me. I've used M1 for street and the occasional track sessions.

 

For the M1, I would say it would be safe not to push it when cornerings esp going in and exiting. Other than that, I still knee slide with it! And I'm just the leisure rider who's still practising his entry and exit lines....

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by hockie69@Jan 11 2006, 09:48 AM

i see..........

 

which means the tire were design more for normal street use then track going condition.yeah.

 

would u recken that the M1 would be a suitable choice for a 600 use on street w min track use?

 

thanks for the headz up.

 

I'm using M1s now. Great street tyres, not too bad as track tyres but you still can't push it.

 

Gassing it too much out of corners will still give it a fair amount of slide and whipping about (at least, from my experience)... And that's gassing the throttle and STILL NOT being able to catch up to other guys with Racetecs, DCs or SCs on.

 

Ultimately, it's still a street biased tyre. Mileage may not be as fantastic as the BT014 tho. I got my M1's and 3 days later, I went on a 2000km trip round M'sia... came back and saw that there were some slight signs of squaring off.

 

Let's just call it a jack of all trades, master of none.