Revision of Class 2 license system

[hohosaint]

Originally posted by BadgerBadgerBadger@Sep 30 2004, 06:48 PM

Hello Everyone,

 

I looked thru the posts and read that most of the items were about division of the classes, age, lack of bikes in the 2A class etc.

 

I was pondering over this issue before i chanced upon this post.here's my $0.02 worth...

 

1.Safety is of paramount concern when riding.

Nothing even comes close to it. If that is ingrained in the mindset of the riders, it shouldnt be an issue if the bike is large or small.

 

2.Bad habits can kill.I feel that bad habits form easier when you ride a smaller bike.For example, on a smaller bike, you can easily squeeze here and there just because you are able to. These habits are reinforced when you eventually get your large bike license.

 

2. Smaller bikes are exposed to more danger on national highways. Smaller bikes travel near their designed capacities on highways. If people want to drive a big car for safety reasons, we should allow greater access to larger bikes for the same reason.The least we can do is to encourage safer use of 2-wheelers..

 

3. Psychologically, the differences in the classes may create piston envy some. Newly qualified riders of smaller bikes may feel a need to be equal with the larger bike next to him and hence put himself in a situation whereby safety is compromised. Remove the classes,let every rider choose their own ride,you would have one emotion less to handle whilst riding.

 

4.Education. Learners should be educated to ride safely on large bikes from the beginning. Form the right habits from the beginning and it would not be so difficult to change later in life. Treat the root of the problem instead to attending to the symptions.Age restriction seems to be adopted by most first world countries, that could be used as a guideline.

 

If this offended anyone out there i'm ..

but if our people is our national resource, we should not let it be wasted on roads and highways.

 

Have a good day.

Well... It makes sense and i mean completely. Gahment must and means, thoroughly to improvize workable plan like the replied letter for the safety ($$) of Singapore roads. Our letter doesn't contribute any changes and consideration in maybe... parliament or LTA Division... Because, we're just commoners or road users. So utimately, they advised us we "WILL" try to implement but sooner or later, will be rejected due to certain unrevealable reasons.

[kori]

imo.. i feel that we should not be so certain that the r & p department of tp will reject our idea.. but neither should we be otherwise.. one reason is that the r & p already are busy with their own stuff apart from the proposal given to them by mech.. but i can say that i believe in them and i will support them to fight for us to get this proposal approved by the appropriate authorities.. hopefully this proposal can be adopted by them down the road no matter how long later.. anyway.. well done for a gd job done for this proposal mech.. CHEERS~

[mechwira]

~thanx~

 

just happy to do it

[The_Sheriff]

mechwira is a hero sey

 

My point of view is if manufacturers make new 400cc models that usethe latest technology as use in the latest 600cc and above, I believed those who own a class 2A will aim for these bikes instead of upgrading to class2 bikes as 400cc is quite sufficient strong for local usage. Etc new Yamaha R4 (based on r1 tech and design)

new GSXRK4 400 (based on k4 series), new CBR 400 (exhaust underseat), new ZXR400RR (based on the new ZXR series), Fazer 400, VFR 400.

 

Even if it cost 12-14k machine price, i believe many will still go for it.

 

 

PS: I love to dream.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by The_Sheriff@Oct 20 2004, 01:48 PM

My point of view is if manufacturers make new 400cc models that usethe latest technology as use in the latest 600cc and above, I believed those who own a class 2A will aim for these bikes instead of upgrading to class2 bikes as 400cc is quite sufficient strong for local usage. Etc new Yamaha R4 (based on r1 tech and design)

new GSXRK4 400 (based on k4 series), new CBR 400 (exhaust underseat), new ZXR400RR (based on the new ZXR series), Fazer 400, VFR 400.

 

Even if it cost 12-14k machine price, i believe many will still go for it.

 

 

PS: I love to dream.

yah i agree completely. if 400cc sports are still being developed and available as new, i wouldn have started this topic.

 

personally i also think 400cc is perfect for purely local use. unfortunately its never gonna happen.

[Metalfyre]

double post

[Metalfyre]

*clap clap*

mechwira..you deserve an award for the way you've presented your arguments.

 

too bad I joined up too late or I'd have been happy to add my name to your petition.

 

Indeed, if the govt's purpose is to provide a stepping stone for riders so we can gradually adapt to the increase in power, then that purpose has been defeated by the lack of availability of 2A machines as most riders would rather wait to get their class 2 so as to have a greater spread of options. I'm one of those riders.

 

once again...great job..

[mechwira]

thank you, appreciate it.

 

i find it unfortunate though that accident statistics will always be stacked against us. however, my opinion is a more in-depth study is required to examine the exact factors for this as opposed to the usual across-the-board assumption that bikes are dangerous; it might turn out that the factors are unrelated to the feasibility of my proposal. but thats a seperate issue, and we're definitely not the only country where bikers are prejudiced against by everyone else.

[Metalfyre]

I've read somewhere that 90% of bike accidents are caused by other cars...

that could be used to counter the 'bikes are dangerous' theory in some ways

[sonic_seed]

counter cars.....hmm..

louder horns, brighter head lights adjusted tat beems into their rear mirrors,

more lightings for our bikes, seems like most drivers in sg roads seems to treat us as 2nd class road users, don give a hoot about our travelling space, cuts in as they like, squeeze like they are driving a bike, ha,

[mechwira]

Originally posted by Metalfyre@Nov 16 2004, 07:56 PM

I've read somewhere that 90% of bike accidents are caused by other cars...

that could be used to counter the 'bikes are dangerous' theory in some ways

oh yes i completely agree. i mentioned somewhere in this thread a few pages ago, about 2 years back m'sian tv3 launched a road safety campaign, and the ad said statistics show that 2 out of 3 serious/fatal accidents involving bikes are the fault of cars (for m'sia).

 

but i dun have any such statistics to offer for our country, so i donno how well it applies to us. so examples for other country's statistics can be used to promote the idea, but we are unable to prove our exact situation definitively.

 

but it realli doesn help our cause when the truth is also that a large portion of our bike accidents are young riders with less than 2 years riding time.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by mechwira@May 22 2004, 12:28 AM

one big disadvantage of my revised proposal from my original proposal is that once it is implemented, the centers will immediately find no use whatsoever for their 250/400cc bikes, unless they hold voluntary riding courses similar to their defensive riding courses. also, ppl taking 2A will immediately drop out, since they would have immediately been awarded the 2A license. however, i think that where laws and regulations are concerned, one should not place too much emphasis on the business impact if it does not concern a major industry.

I don't see a major impact for the driving centres as they can either auction or export away the Class 2A training bikes. At the end of the day, they are

"driving"

centres, majority of their customers (and most of their revenue) are from class 3 learners, not class 2!

 

Remember, when gahment introduced the Class 3A licence, wouldn't the driving centres made less because most learner drivers will take fewer lessons and fewer attempts to pass Class 3A? I cannot predict the %, come 1 Jan 2005, I'm think it will be more than 50% taking Class 3A than Class 3. In that case, wouldn't the driving centre lose even more in terms of their revenue?? Don't forget they need to buy automatic training cars, which will definitely cost more than those old Hornet or superfours in their backyard.

 

What I am saying here is that, as long as it benefits the majority of ppl and it is good for the community and road users at large, we shd push for it.

 

I agree with your proposal on revsion of class 2 licence system in S'pore.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by Keynes@Nov 18 2004, 09:08 AM

I don't see a major impact for the driving centres as they can either auction or export away the Class 2A training bikes. At the end of the day, they are centres, majority of their customers (and most of their revenue) are from class 3 learners, not class 2!

 

Remember, when gahment introduced the Class 3A licence, wouldn't the driving centres made less because most learner drivers will take fewer lessons and fewer attempts to pass Class 3A? I cannot predict the %, come 1 Jan 2005, I'm think it will be more than 50% taking Class 3A than Class 3. In that case, wouldn't the driving centre lose even more in terms of their revenue?? Don't forget they need to buy automatic training cars, which will definitely cost more than those old Hornet or superfours in their backyard.

 

What I am saying here is that, as long as it benefits the majority of ppl and it is good for the community and road users at large, we shd push for it.

 

I agree with your proposal on revsion of class 2 licence system in S'pore.

yes, thats why i said if things are for the better, then we should concern too much on the business impact if its not a major industry.

 

but in the absence of actual records, we cannot say for sure how much the money the driving centers will have to fork out.

 

my first proposal is the optional 2A. this one, there is completely no need to change anything, so very little impact. this is the one similar to the class 3A: the centers can opt to buy auto cars but if not then no need, because 3A is optional meaning there will still be ppl taking class 3.

 

my second proposal was the 'raise 2A to 600cc'. now, with this one, the centers can keep their 250/400cc bikes still for their 2A. but their 600cc bikes, which they now use to train for class 2 cannot be used anymore, because how can you use a 2A bike to train for class 2? now they must buy at least 750cc bikes for use in training class 2. this is different situation from the class 3a idea. and we really cant say how much they'll have to fork out, coz confirm they have to fork out, just a matter of too much or not.

 

but like i said, how to say dont change the system because the centers must come out money. an official system must look at the big picture.

[okl]

whats the final word?

 

i think by simply raising the class2A cc limit from 400cc to 600cc will do.

 

cant ask for much even when u bring it up to parliament anyway, so its better to start small.

 

fantastic postings, keep it coming.

[HDDude]

Hello mates!

Did this go ant further?

[mechwira]

to all those wondering, let me put in perspective:

 

If u never hear anything then neither did I

 

they replied my mail, and thats all they'll do. if it goes thru, we'll all hear about it. if not, theywont tell me they've abandoned it.

[rideronthestorm]

not to be a spoil sport - but what's the use arguing / debating about whether the 2A should 600cc or 400cc etc....

 

is there anything we can do to get TP/Govt to take notice - I don't think so.

 

Personally, I think this 2B/2A/2 regime sucks - and 2A should be 600cc and above - but this is Singapore guys - I just don't think its gonna happen anytime soon.....

[ambasnakeman]

all 400cc getting scraped already except those got extend coe. if 2a revise to 600, alot of new bikes will definetly be purchased, reducing economic crisis.

 

but then again, 600cc does all the way to 260.

 

maybe they are waiting for more 400cc to die

[sarge]

they may just want you to ride the 250s...

[BLACK COMET]

I feel that the best way is still to retain the current system.

But change the cc limit. eg.

 

2B up to 250cc

2A up to 600cc

2 is 600 and above.

 

Why?

 

This will make everyone happy.

 

We are concern above the availablility of 400cc bike one the market.

the 400cc bike is dying and this will make 2A redundent.

 

Driving center need to earn $

 

The govern needs control and earn $.

 

Some will say power diff between the class. Actually it's true to a certain extent that it make no diff. cos, NSR150sp is 31 hP. XR400 is also 30+HP. NSR150 is lighter.

 

In a way, this will be ideal

[xb84]

400cc sports dead

but i find 400cc still got 2 bikes i quite like

super4 & drz (did i get the model right? the suzuki motard)

and someone posted real nice pics of future suzuki street bike (forgot what model)

so many s4 on the road.. 400cc wont die la..

[scooterer]

How can the local class 400 cc die when there is a Japanese class 2A licence? (400 cc and below?). No matter what they need to cater to their home market.

 

Off the top of my head I can name at least 10 400 cc bikes. CB 400, XR 400, Silver wing, Shadow 400, and that's just Honda.

 

The only class dying out is the sports bikes.... every other type of bike is well and alive, and that's not counting the 250cc bikes.

[rAjOaNa]

Originally posted by BLACK COMET@Nov 18 2005, 12:56 PM

I feel that the best way is still to retain the current system.

But change the cc limit. eg.

 

2B up to 250cc

2A up to 600cc

2 is 600 and above.

 

Why?

 

This will make everyone happy.

 

We are concern above the availablility of 400cc bike one the market.

the 400cc bike is dying and this will make 2A redundent.

 

Driving center need to earn $

 

The govern needs control and earn $.

 

Some will say power diff between the class. Actually it's true to a certain extent that it make no diff. cos, NSR150sp is 31 hP. XR400 is also 30+HP. NSR150 is lighter.

 

In a way, this will be ideal

i wld agree to yar ammendment to the CC to each class.

Abt the HP very difficult to compare, so can't base on HP n torque to classify bike. These can be easily changed by modification n wear n tear where as engine cc cannot be easily changed.

 

There is a this british chopper Enfield Bullet 535cc with

[Kazama]

yo!

i dun understand all the various courses in the circuit except E brake.

the rest quite useful in road riding?

S-course for overtaking 2 cars beautifully at a time?

C-course for cub-ing in car park?

narrow plank for balancing during a jam?

salom for hao lian-ing in front of za bors?

bumpy course for getting up kerbs in order to get a shortcut?

i noe these tests our balance and throttle control but i think its quite redundant.

esp when during TP, jus one silly mistake (heng or sauy), IF liao

someone do something!!

 

jus voicing out something in my stomach since i got my 2b 5 years ago

[rAjOaNa]

Originally posted by Kazama@Nov 25 2005, 01:17 AM

yo!

i dun understand all the various courses in the circuit except E brake.

the rest quite useful in road riding?

S-course for overtaking 2 cars beautifully at a time?

C-course for cub-ing in car park?

narrow plank for balancing during a jam?

salom for hao lian-ing in front of za bors?

bumpy course for getting up kerbs in order to get a shortcut?

i noe these tests our balance and throttle control but i think its quite redundant.

esp when during TP, jus one silly mistake (heng or sauy), IF liao

someone do something!!

 

jus voicing out something in my stomach since i got my 2b 5 years ago

I used to think the same as well.

2B bike still can easily play all this course but never the less Crank course n Fig 8(s course) it help me to understand how to use eye pt when cornering.

 

Narrow plank i used to think the same la but then i guess it jus to like see how to handle low speed control so they when we ride out side dun wobble too much when stopping or moving off.

 

Bumpy course this one is something i think maybe only important for off road or wat. But never the less to do it smoothly u need to understand the bitting pt very well especially for CL2.