[Archived - 2009] PK Official- Questions for Newbie

[farish]

just wondering wats the resale value for a FY ta200 cutom 4? lwts ay low milage of 15 000km......

[nivleK1985]

maybe 4k ?

[Smart Bet]

Originally posted by Smart Bet@Oct 4 2005, 02:44 PM

Just out of curiousity, can anyone explain to me how "easy" run in helps seal your piston rings?

Still no takers?

[weiz85]

wat u mean by "easy"?

[lunloon]

no hard revving?

[weiz85]

i heard of one way of running in is let the engine idle for one full tank of petrol!

isnt that even easier?

[Smart Bet]

Easy run-in as in what the manual recommends.

[Kevs]

Originally posted by weiz85@Oct 6 2005, 01:44 PM

i heard of one way of running in is let the engine idle for one full tank of petrol!

isnt that even easier?

IDLE-ING?

Sure? Isnt it not good for the engine to idle for more then 5mins?

Might as well get a paddock stand OR improvise wif a car jack & 1 piece of wood, kick into gear 1, release clutch slowly & let it run?

BUT but but... the speedo & mileage measuring is only located by the front wheel isnt it? Then how to know run until run in done liao?

IMO, isnt it best to do run in by riding? If so, newbies can also familiarize the road and road conditions @ different timing.

Correct mi if im wrong...

 

just my 0.001cents

[niqyap]

well, i'm all for hard running in.

 

rev that throttle man!

 

[Mark Ng]

Originally posted by KeV1143@Oct 6 2005, 02:21 PM

IDLE-ING?

Sure? Isnt it not good for the engine to idle for more then 5mins?

Might as well get a paddock stand OR improvise wif a car jack & 1 piece of wood, kick into gear 1, release clutch slowly & let it run?

BUT but but... the speedo & mileage measuring is only located by the front wheel isnt it? Then how to know run until run in done liao?

IMO, isnt it best to do run in by riding? If so, newbies can also familiarize the road and road conditions @ different timing.

Correct mi if im wrong...

 

just my 0.001cents

this method cannot work.

[Thunder_X]

Originally posted by farish@Oct 6 2005, 12:26 AM

just wondering wats the resale value for a FY ta200 cutom 4? lwts ay low milage of 15 000km......

As long as the bike is still in good condition, a resale value of 4k to 5k shouldnt be a problem.

[etky85]

anyone noes how to put a sai tao huh? or where to put and roughly cost how much?

or buy e sai tao from elsewhere and D.I.Y?

[weiz85]

Originally posted by KeV1143@Oct 6 2005, 02:21 PM

IDLE-ING?

Sure? Isnt it not good for the engine to idle for more then 5mins?

Might as well get a paddock stand OR improvise wif a car jack & 1 piece of wood, kick into gear 1, release clutch slowly & let it run?

BUT but but... the speedo & mileage measuring is only located by the front wheel isnt it? Then how to know run until run in done liao?

IMO, isnt it best to do run in by riding? If so, newbies can also familiarize the road and road conditions @ different timing.

Correct mi if im wrong...

 

just my 0.001cents

thats wat i heard of ...

but if u see, the manual say dun rev ur egine when u are runnning in , so letting it to idle all the way , isnt it better ? But u got to solve the overheating problems haha

then after idling for one tank of petrol, then run in is consider completed.

 

but i find it abit impractical , u need a few fans to cool ur engine down.

[weiz85]

Originally posted by Mark Ng@Oct 6 2005, 10:07 PM

this method cannot work.

u try b4?

\

[weiz85]

Originally posted by Smart Bet@Oct 6 2005, 02:07 PM

Easy run-in as in what the manual recommends.

IMO, a easy run in help not to bigger the block by causing more friction and wear by hard revving to a new block. therefore, the piston ring will not be loosen instead of saying it sealed.

[Kevs]

Originally posted by Mark Ng+Oct 6 2005, 10:07 PM-->

QUOTE (Mark Ng @ Oct 6 2005, 10:07 PM)

this method cannot work. [/b] Thats y i said:

[Smart Bet]

Originally posted by weiz85@Oct 7 2005, 11:05 AM

IMO, a easy run in help not to bigger the block by causing more friction and wear by hard revving to a new block. therefore, the piston ring will not be loosen instead of saying it sealed.

In that case, if you're keeping your revs down so that the ring won't "loosen", then when and how will it be finally sealed, signalling the end of your run-in process?

 

And boring the new cylinder wall is ESSENTIAL for a complete seal and optimum combustion in the chamber so that there are no leakages.

[Thunder_X]

I thinking of quitting this run-in topic liao cause there'll be no exact answer untill some pro go and publicise a formal article.

 

BTW, I've a post on how i run in here :

pls feel free to comment ~

 

How I run-in my TA 200

[weiz85]

Originally posted by Smart Bet@Oct 7 2005, 11:37 AM

In that case, if you're keeping your revs down so that the ring won't "loosen", then when and how will it be finally sealed, signalling the end of your run-in process?

 

And boring the new cylinder wall is ESSENTIAL for a complete seal and optimum combustion in the chamber so that there are no leakages.

i dun understand wat u meant by sealed...

no matter how, the ring will expand when the engine is warm up then maybe u get a tighter ring?

 

to me, my signal upon ending my run-in is getting a smoother and ligther engine.

at 1st , u can feel the engine is heavy n tight , thats the time when ur piston ring n block is wearing in! if u whack it hard, u might get more wear n tear IMO.

 

[BlackDawn]

Sometimes I do wonder:

 

In these days where precison engineering and machining is becoming the standard practice in automotive parts, is run-in necessary anymore? I hardly hear of car owners running in their 4-wheelers

 

In my line of work, I see lots of precision machined components, and I am sure that such micro-perfect fits between mating parts can also be easily achieved in automotive components. A prime piston (& piston ring ) sitting perfectly colinear with a engine block bore is no longer an impossibility. Bore finishing can easily be 'touched-up' to mirror finishes if necessary.

 

Neway, just for reference. I hardly followed any run-in procedure for my TA200, although as a newbie then, I was kind of influenced by the "easy run-in" school of thought. I kept my bike under 60kmh for the first day I got the bike. Subsequently, heck-care liao, cos its a pain to ride under 60kmh. My first change of EO was at 500km(semi-syn), 2nd at 1000km(semi-syn) & 3rd change at 1500km (fully-syn) subsequenly I change fully-syn every 2k km or so. (top up another 300ml after 1k km)

 

For the record, my bike has been running for 17months with no major engine problems. Chain has been tightened only once in this 17months and the only major downtime was when I dropped my bike on the left side and jammed the gear lever.

 

So I dunno lah... just run-in the way you are most comfortable with lor. There will always be contradicting opinions on the 'proper' way to run in an engine... read, understand, evaluate and execute per your own judgement.

 

Lastly, I am currently more inclined towards the hard run-in school of thought, and will probably do that for my next new bike in the future (even if it might not be neccessary, considering my opinions above)

[Smart Bet]

Originally posted by weiz85@Oct 7 2005, 11:56 AM

i dun understand wat u meant by sealed...

no matter how, the ring will expand when the engine is warm up then maybe u get a tighter ring?

 

to me, my signal upon ending my run-in is getting a smoother and ligther engine.

at 1st , u can feel the engine is heavy n tight , thats the time when ur piston ring n block is wearing in! if u whack it hard, u might get more wear n tear IMO.

 

I've mentioned before and time again, there is no "correct" way of running in. Just want to understand the logic of easy run-in.

 

By being sealed means that the cylinder walls are properly "shaved" off which in turns makes the seal around the bore more or less perfect. Optimum combustion, minimum leakage.

 

Again, hard run-in DOES NOT MEAN WHACKING IT HARD. It means having a good relatively hard acceleration and decceleration method. Obviously constant red-lining will only damage your engine, new or old.

[Smart Bet]

Originally posted by kiamh@Oct 7 2005, 11:59 AM

Sometimes I do wonder:

 

In these days where precison engineering and machining is becoming the standard practice in automotive parts, is run-in necessary anymore? I hardly hear of car owners running in their 4-wheelers

 

In my line of work, I see lots of precision machined components, and I am sure that such micro-perfect fits between mating parts can also be easily achieved in automotive components. A prime piston (& piston ring ) sitting perfectly colinear with a engine block bore is no longer an impossibility. Bore finishing can easily be 'touched-up' to mirror finishes if necessary.

 

Neway, just for reference. I hardly followed any run-in procedure for my TA200, although as a newbie then, I was kind of influenced by the "easy run-in" school of thought. I kept my bike under 60kmh for the first day I got the bike. Subsequently, heck-care liao, cos its a pain to ride under 60kmh. My first change of EO was at 500km(semi-syn), 2nd at 1000km(semi-syn) & 3rd change at 1500km (fully-syn) subsequenly I change fully-syn every 2k km or so. (top up another 300ml after 1k km)

 

For the record, my bike has been running for 17months with no major engine problems. Chain has been tightened only once in this 17months and the only major downtime was when I dropped my bike on the left side and jammed the gear lever.

 

So I dunno lah... just run-in the way you are most comfortable with lor. There will always be contradicting opinions on the 'proper' way to run in an engine... read, understand, evaluate and execute per your own judgement.

 

Lastly, I am currently more inclined towards the hard run-in school of thought, and will probably do that for my next new bike in the future (even if it might not be neccessary, considering my opinions above)

Contrary, new cars still need to do run-in. The reason being that even with precision engineering, upon installation of piston + ring + block, all 3 components together will never be 100% perfect. I've ran-in 2 toyotas, a nissan and a kia engine. All 3 cars brand new. This was also advised strickly from the salesperson and also the authorised workshop.

[Kevs]

Eh~ as to wat smartbet had said, my points had been reflected by his.

I rest my case...

[Thunder_X]

Originally posted by kiamh@Oct 7 2005, 11:59 AM

Sometimes I do wonder:

 

In these days where precison engineering and machining is becoming the standard practice in automotive parts, is run-in necessary anymore? I hardly hear of car owners running in their 4-wheelers

 

In my line of work, I see lots of precision machined components, and I am sure that such micro-perfect fits between mating parts can also be easily achieved in automotive components. A prime piston (& piston ring ) sitting perfectly colinear with a engine block bore is no longer an impossibility. Bore finishing can easily be 'touched-up' to mirror finishes if necessary.

 

Neway, just for reference. I hardly followed any run-in procedure for my TA200, although as a newbie then, I was kind of influenced by the "easy run-in" school of thought. I kept my bike under 60kmh for the first day I got the bike. Subsequently, heck-care liao, cos its a pain to ride under 60kmh. My first change of EO was at 500km(semi-syn), 2nd at 1000km(semi-syn) & 3rd change at 1500km (fully-syn) subsequenly I change fully-syn every 2k km or so. (top up another 300ml after 1k km)

 

For the record, my bike has been running for 17months with no major engine problems. Chain has been tightened only once in this 17months and the only major downtime was when I dropped my bike on the left side and jammed the gear lever.

 

So I dunno lah... just run-in the way you are most comfortable with lor. There will always be contradicting opinions on the 'proper' way to run in an engine... read, understand, evaluate and execute per your own judgement.

 

Lastly, I am currently more inclined towards the hard run-in school of thought, and will probably do that for my next new bike in the future (even if it might not be neccessary, considering my opinions above)

kiamh, I feel that your bike is still new leh...not at the age where problems start to comes.

=)

 

Further more, piston and rings is under high heat & pressure when operating, and at room temp when being fixed up. So I do fear there's some +- allowance for this expansion in heats and presure, hence the wearing and run-in comes in....

[BlackDawn]

believe u me, automotive engineers know how to design a piston ring so that it is slightly smaller at room temp, and at the perfect tolerance and fit at the operating temp.

 

That's why warming-up is essential to maintain your bike in tip-top condition.