Caution buying used bikes

[teambhp]

IMO there is no right or wrong in supply and demand. really principle of value is different from person to person. No point bring insults into this civilised forum. But I am genuinely interested in some of the bikes mention here. Problem is the seller's worth of his bike and my worth of his bike is totally different. So no willing buyer, no willing seller.

 

I am more concern about the bread and butter bikes as these are the bikes that affect most of us here. I am lucky enough to know a friend's cub is selling. I am willing to pay his paper value and 1.5k for the cub's body. So in this case I know there are no major problem with the bike, just normal wear and tear. I see ppl selling cubs, 2b road bikes at crazily high price and I tried nego with them with intend to buy from them, but non agreed with my concept of pay for left over paper value and body price and they don't even let me test ride. Some even says I am a dealer... I feel so insulted but I kept to my own principles that have prevented me from getting into trouble.

 

Hence its not easy to find a good deal even in this forum anymore, I don't trust the crooks in the shops selling 2nd hand bikes. I hate to deal with shops. Got cheated a few times and learnt from those lessons. There are prata flippers 24/7 viewing this forum and catching all the good deals to prata.

 

I myself also hope the price of COE bikes will fall so that I can upgrade. So to each his own, we agree to disagree.

 

and to add, IMO COE bikes have no residual value compared to COE cars. Simply because scrap yards can export the cars to other countries hence COE cars have values up to a few thousand. Its not that bikes cannot be exported, its no other countries want the import 10 year old bikes.

There are weird people here who think that their bike has a lot of value even when coe left 1 to 2 yrs.by the way, there are also crook direct sellers asking shops to cheaply do n cover up the defects. Unsuspecting buyers will fall for it.

 

One guy say that buyers are smart. Not really true.. If not, we will not reading be tales of woe here.

[filtered]

bro filtered, wat u smoking ah?

 

Ducati 1098 Streetfighter S

Bought new in 2011

Selling price end 2014 - $27k

basis bought new in 2011, assume COE expiry 2021

Assumin zero residual value, Depn = 27k/7 = $3.9k/year for a 3 year old bike

 

Bike Mart has the same bike bike

Reg in 2009

2015 Now asking $25k

Basis reg 2009, assume COE expiry 2019

Assumin zero residual value, Depn = 25k/4 = $6.3k/year for a 6 year old bike

 

alamak I calculating the amt lost if bike sold within first 3 yrs, vs if sold after 6 yrs lah....hahaha =P

[calebike]

2015 is the year bike coe explode. Any meaningful conclusion needs to be reference to 2015. However the stats are not out

 

utter bollocks

[teambhp]

alamak I calculating the amt lost if bike sold within first 3 yrs, vs if sold after 6 yrs lah....hahaha =P

Never mind lah.we learn from mistakes

[teambhp]

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/426443-WTS-Gen-1-Suzuki-Hayabusa-GSXR1300-05

 

COe left around 7mths

Selling for $7500

Dep per month, not year =$1071.43

[teambhp]

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/427114-WTS-08-Honda-CB400-Revo-w-ABS

 

Coe left slightly less than 3 yrs

Selling $11000

Dep per year =$3666

 

New Super 4 selling for around 21k.

Dep per year for new super 4 = around $2100 per year.

[kzone]

teambhp, what do u think of this?

any idea how much a new one is selling now with coe?

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/426665-2010-Harley-Davidson-Sportster-883

[teambhp]

teambhp, what do u think of this?

any idea how much a new one is selling now with coe?

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/426665-2010-Harley-Davidson-Sportster-883

Dep is around 3600 per yr for his bike .I have no idea how much a new one cost. If a new one cost 33000, then it's obvious the seller is overpricing his bike.

[kzone]

Dep is around 3600 per yr for his bike .I have no idea how much a new one cost. If a new one cost 33000, then it's obvious the seller is overpricing his bike.

 

for some bikes, there is some residual value after COE expiry... how much wud u pay for this bike after its COE expiry? just wanna get ur opnion... for me, around 5k I would grab but between 5 to 10k I wud still consider after doing more research

[filtered]

teambhp, what do u think of this?

any idea how much a new one is selling now with coe?

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/426665-2010-Harley-Davidson-Sportster-883

 

New one is less than $30k with current COE, if I remember correctly. Ard high 20k's

[kzone]

If new price is 28K and value after COE expiry is 8K, and assume straight line depreciation, then this is the value table. in 2015 is 18K, excactly the asking price

 

Year Years Of Ownership Value

2010 0 28,000

2011 1 26,000

2012 2 24,000

2013 3 22,000

2014 4 20,000

2015 5 18,000

2016 6 16,000

2017 7 14,000

2018 8 12,000

2019 9 10,000

2020 10 8,000

[teambhp]

If new price is 28K and value after COE expiry is 8K, and assume straight line depreciation, then this is the value table. in 2015 is 18K, excactly the asking price

 

YearYears Of OwnershipValue

20100 28,000

20111 26,000

20122 24,000

20133 22,000

20144 20,000

20155 18,000

20166 16,000

20177 14,000

20188 12,000

20199 10,000

202010 8,000

Due to high coe prices, riders wanna ride without any depreciation, and in the process make some money out of the bike

[filtered]

If new price is 28K and value after COE expiry is 8K, and assume straight line depreciation, then this is the value table. in 2015 is 18K, excactly the asking price

 

Year Years Of Ownership Value

2010 0 28,000

2011 1 26,000

2012 2 24,000

2013 3 22,000

2014 4 20,000

2015 5 18,000

2016 6 16,000

2017 7 14,000

2018 8 12,000

2019 9 10,000

2020 10 8,000

 

Selling price is $16k, not $18k....if u scroll further down the post, the guy posted wrongly hahaha

 

Actually I think value after COE expiry maybe not even $8k. HD Sportster is considered entry-level, and I recall my friend who used to work there mentioned that machine price is less than $20k only

[mechwira]

New one is less than $30k with current COE, if I remember correctly. Ard high 20k's

 

If new price is 28K and value after COE expiry is 8K, and assume straight line depreciation, then this is the value table. in 2015 is 18K, excactly the asking price

 

Year Years Of Ownership Value

2010 0 28,000

.

.

.

2020 10 8,000

 

the only issue i feel is debatable is that you are basing everything on current COE and price. but in 2010, bike COE was still sub-1k, and a basic model sportster machine price is 18k, going up to 24k depending on the exact sportster model.

 

when you calculate based on the bike's actual price in 2010, you should get lower.

 

the fact remains though, people do compare secondhand prices with today's current prices, and therefore prices of secondhand do go up.

 

but riders are being unrealistic with the selling price. still, this is NOT NEW, even when COE was sub-1k. way back when, i already see sellers trying to offload one year old class 2 bikes at only 1k-2k off brand new. nobody will think it is worth saving 1k-2k over brand new.

 

nonetheless, i still disagree with the idea that a bike's value drop to $0 upon COE expiry. i think $4k is a fair price for the haya with expiring COE. plus 7k for COE, that works out to one-third the price of a brand new haya, for a ten-year old that can go another ten years. that guy's asking price is way too high, but neither is the bike worthless.

 

at the end of day, no matter wat bike and no matter wat price, anyone who pays more than you yourself are willing to pay will appear stupid to you.

[filtered]

but riders are being unrealistic with the selling price. still, this is NOT NEW, even when COE was sub-1k. way back when, i already see sellers trying to offload one year old class 2 bikes at only 1k-2k off brand new. nobody will think it is worth saving 1k-2k over brand new.

 

 

200% agree!! Maybe they looking for Robert Cai to chop.....

 

Problem is some of them took a loan on the bike, and calcuate their selling price based on how much they need to pay back the loan with interest, hence the cost of the bike goes up

 

I always tell them I will calculate based on bike's new selling price, based on full cash payment. Why should I be paying for someone else's loan interest? Doesnt make sense

[teambhp]

the only issue i feel is debatable is that you are basing everything on current COE and price. but in 2010, bike COE was still sub-1k, and a basic model sportster machine price is 18k, going up to 24k depending on the exact sportster model.

 

when you calculate based on the bike's actual price in 2010, you should get lower.

 

the fact remains though, people do compare secondhand prices with today's current prices, and therefore prices of secondhand do go up.

 

but riders are being unrealistic with the selling price. still, this is NOT NEW, even when COE was sub-1k. way back when, i already see sellers trying to offload one year old class 2 bikes at only 1k-2k off brand new. nobody will think it is worth saving 1k-2k over brand new.

 

nonetheless, i still disagree with the idea that a bike's value drop to $0 upon COE expiry. i think $4k is a fair price for the haya with expiring COE. plus 7k for COE, that works out to one-third the price of a brand new haya, for a ten-year old that can go another ten years. that guy's asking price is way too high, but neither is the bike worthless.

 

at the end of day, no matter wat bike and no matter wat price, anyone who pays more than you yourself are willing to pay will appear stupid to you.

That's why I single out that Busa in earlier posts. Crazy price. As for whether body is worth 4k,we won't be able to give a fair value until the bike is brought to shop for inspection.

[teambhp]

for some bikes, there is some residual value after COE expiry... how much wud u pay for this bike after its COE expiry? just wanna get ur opnion... for me, around 5k I would grab but between 5 to 10k I wud still consider after doing more research

Not worth 5k. Remember have to factor in repair costs as well.unless the bike in swee swee condition,then 5k is reasonable. But which 10 yr old bike still in swee swee condition nearby coe expire.

[teamsk]

Let say I buy that busa at $7.5k and renew coe immediately at 6k. So total I would have forked out $13.5k to ride the busa for another 10yrs. So depreciation will be $1350 per year. Does this calculation make sense?

Edited May 16, 2015 by teamsk

[teambhp]

Let say I buy that busa at $7.5k and renew coe immediately at 6k. So total I would have forked out $13.5k to ride the busa for another 10yrs. So depreciation will be $1350 per year. Does this calculation make sense?

Yep.but as with any 10 yr old bike, you won't know the engine n gearbox condition till you send it to a ws for inspection.

[mechwira]

cannot take it anymore.

 

for those who bother listening to reason...... 'Depreciation' is not some simplistic calculation of how much money you put in divided by how many years of COE left.

 

In the first place, 'depreciation' is calculated by yearly percentage. Secondly, this yearly percentage is an approximation based on market demand, not an exact figure plucked from its price or anywhere else. that is why in general people say continental cars/bikes have lower depreciation than japanese cars/bikes; because demand for secondhand conti is higher than demand for secondhand japanese.

 

if you take price of a Ducati 1199 Panigale + COE and divide by ten years, and compare with the answer you get when you take Suzuki GSX-1000R + COE divide by ten years, straightaway you get a number for the ducati higher than the number for suzuki. where is the sense in this? isnt the depreciation for the ducati supposed to be lower?

 

there is higher demand for a 3 year old ducati than for a 3 year old suzuki. because of that higher demand, the 3 year old ducati fetches a higher percentage of its original price as compared to the suzuki. thus the percentage drop in value for a ducati is lower than the percentage drop for a suzuki. i.e, a ducati has lower depreciation.

 

depreciation is an approximate percentage based on market demand. not price divide by years of COE left. that is if you choose to see reason. if not, you're welcome to say whatever you think.

[mechwira]

i looked at sgcarmart.

 

bought my hyundai avante in june 2009 for 48k. in sgcarmart, 2009 avante same model range in price from 45k to 50k.

 

whats my depreciation? zero. its not 48k divide by ten.

 

but if LTA had not reduced COE, and COE still maybe 10k thereabout, my car probably worth 25k now. wats my depreciation? (48k-25k) divide by 7 years.

 

it is an aproximation based on market demand.

[teamsk]

Thank you teambhp

[blackness]

Yep.but as with any 10 yr old bike, you won't know the engine n gearbox condition till you send it to a ws for inspection.

 

hi teambhp. please take time to read my post. i have a heart burning question for you. do you own a bike?

 

It seems to me you're trying your best to destroy the second hand bike trade market, posting negative comments on so many sales threads. i'm neither a seller nor a buyer but your posts are really irritating. Do you seriously think everyone can afford a brand new bike? look at a class2 brand new bike. they easily reach 30k and up. Do you live in a world where any tom **** or harry can buy a bike with full cash without worry for interests, simply because the second hand bikes do not meet "your depreciation concept"?

 

why not you go to every single bike shop, identify overpriced bikes, and report to CASE? rather than identifying overpriced sales thread, why not you go ask the moderator to close down the entire garage sale forum?

[teambhp]

hi teambhp. please take time to read my post. i have a heart burning question for you. do you own a bike?

 

It seems to me you're trying your best to destroy the second hand bike trade market, posting negative comments on so many sales threads. i'm neither a seller nor a buyer but your posts are really irritating. Do you seriously think everyone can afford a brand new bike? look at a class2 brand new bike. they easily reach 30k and up. Do you live in a world where any tom **** or harry can buy a bike with full cash without worry for interests, simply because the second hand bikes do not meet "your depreciation concept"?

 

why not you go to every single bike shop, identify overpriced bikes, and report to CASE? rather than identifying overpriced sales thread, why not you go ask the moderator to close down the entire garage sale forum?

I have the buyer interest at heart. If you dun like what I post, I also cannot do much

[Rac]

Interesting thread. Btw TS started this thread by cautioning against buying from private sellers. I disagree. I would rather buy from private sellers than shops. Shops are more likely to do some works to cover up defects as compared to private sellers. Sellers most likely would have checked with shops' take in price before pricing their sales. Why let shops earn if you can sell it yourself? Shops also normally take in at ridiculously low price to make money.

 

With regards to sellers' pricing, it is demand and supply, and up to both parties to negotiate. I personally think it is wrong to go around disturbing ppl's thread, in the name of doing justice. Everyone has their own perception of fair value. Some value Honda's reliability, some value certain Italian brands, some prefer German, some just like the bike. So they decide for themselves how much they willing to pay. You definitely can't say all bikes got ZERO value end of 10 years. Basically no matter what you or I say, the market forces will determine the sales.

 

Btw I found this previous thread started by the TS, highlighting the important part in bold.

 

Hi all

 

I was browsing some of the sellers ad in this forum for the past few weeks. I do agree that some of the asking prices are on the ridiculous side.of course,this is a free mkt n they are free to sell whatever prices they want.

 

I also saw a few posts where the buyer dislike the prices n post in an unconstructive manner in the sellers thread. Personally I think we are mature adults, n such destructive words are uncalled for. If u feel that the prices are unfair, please leave them alone. If they cannot sell,they can jolly well push in to the bike shop.many sellers are taking advantage of the current high coe prices n sharp buyers do know that.

 

I am not moderator.please do not misunderstand my intentions by starting this thread. All I hope to see is a more constructive forum. Let us not degrade to a forum like edmw in hardware zone.com. Thank you

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/420810-Unrealistic-2nd-hand-bike-prices?highlight=

Edited May 16, 2015 by Rac