Coolant Related - General Enquiry

[Bluesky]

Originally posted by kennethy@Oct 21 2005, 12:37 AM

just flush and change coolant recently... changed from stock coolant to waterwetter... do notice that the fan turn on less (cos can hear)... as for heat around leg.. dun really feel cos most of the time wearing pants...

where u change ur waterwetter? how much?

[duckit]

u can either choose to DIY , the coolant and the distilled wadter ( aka battery water ) u can get from shell . 1L abt $1.20 - $1.40 , u need about 2 bottle for super 4 .. the ratio is coolant + distilled water( the ratio i not realli sure , my friend who know how to DIY help me Mix ) add up to 2L ..next u muz open ur oil tank .. and u open those tubes that the coolant is leadin to ..and open ur radiator cap ( provided that the bike if fully cool ) next if u got hose , u can aim the hose @ the openin of the where the radiator cap is , and flush inside till all the past coolant and dirty deposites are fully clean and clear water start to come out . Next after flushin , connect back all the tubes and secured nicely . And since u take out so mani thing , u might also want to take out ur resivour tank and disconnect those tubes and wash the tank and brush inside and connect back . Finally u can top up the coolant and distilled mixture... Top it up til its to the top and start ur bike , if ur pump is workin condition , the level will drop and top up til the top after revin ur bike a little . And add up to the top.. And the remaining amount of coolant sld be just enough to fit ur resivour . Cap back ur radiator cap . remeber muz turn twice as it got a anti lock function , Turn and Turn 1 more time . connect all the tube and fuel line and other tube back and secure ur tank. And u got a nicely and clean flush Coolant and radiator system ...

 

Or alternativly if ur lazy and doesnt like to DIY u can go to bukie merah and look for Race werk , they flush and top up for $20 .. I think the $20 is very reasonable price , cuz if u DIY , u will reaslise that the $20 is quite hard to earn ..haha ..

[TeePeePhobe]

Originally posted by duckit@Oct 21 2005, 02:45 AM

u can either choose to DIY , the coolant and the distilled wadter ( aka battery water ) u can get from shell . 1L abt $1.20 - $1.40 , u need about 2 bottle for super 4 .. the ratio is coolant + distilled water( the ratio i not realli sure , my friend who know how to DIY help me Mix ) add up to 2L ..next u muz open ur oil tank .. and u open those tubes that the coolant is leadin to ..and open ur radiator cap ( provided that the bike if fully cool ) next if u got hose , u can aim the hose @ the openin of the where the radiator cap is , and flush inside till all the past coolant and dirty deposites are fully clean and clear water start to come out . Next after flushin , connect back all the tubes and secured nicely . And since u take out so mani thing , u might also want to take out ur resivour tank and disconnect those tubes and wash the tank and brush inside and connect back . Finally u can top up the coolant and distilled mixture... Top it up til its to the top and start ur bike , if ur pump is workin condition , the level will drop and top up til the top after revin ur bike a little . And add up to the top.. And the remaining amount of coolant sld be just enough to fit ur resivour . Cap back ur radiator cap . remeber muz turn twice as it got a anti lock function , Turn and Turn 1 more time . connect all the tube and fuel line and other tube back and secure ur tank. And u got a nicely and clean flush Coolant and radiator system ...

 

Or alternativly if ur lazy and doesnt like to DIY u can go to bukie merah and look for Race werk , they flush and top up for $20 .. I think the $20 is very reasonable price , cuz if u DIY , u will reaslise that the $20 is quite hard to earn ..haha ..

The recommended ratio is 30ml per liter, 60ml for 2L. For you guys, I put additional 15ml (ie. total 75ml) for a slightly more concentrated mix of Cool-Aide for longer life span.

 

I've tested up to 2X recommended concentration of Cool-Aide with no ill effects, residue or any colour change upon draining after 6 months. In comparison, I got some very tough to remove residue in my spare tank with my previous waterwetter together with discolouration. Anyone with similar experience?

[IceZ]

i realised stock coolant is poor heat prove....gonna change to water wetter soon.

[FreDz]

Originally posted by IceZ@Oct 21 2005, 07:41 AM

i realised stock coolant is poor heat prove....gonna change to water wetter soon.

Nodz.. u should~

[il4]

Originally posted by kennethy@Oct 21 2005, 03:03 AM

will advice you to change to good coolant... anyway, it is not that costly, but overall better for your bike since your engine is always running at lower temp and that less stressful on your EO... (high temp will means have to change EO more often, eg when you go touring, subjecting your EO under high temp for long time will make it loose it viscosity faster)

Theres a certain range of operating temperature for your engine oil, if i remember correctly should range between 95ish DegreeC to 105ish DegreeC.

 

Infact wear and tear occurs at alarming rate when engine oil falls below operating temperature.

[WildCard]

Originally posted by il4@Oct 21 2005, 09:52 AM

Theres a certain range of operating temperature for your engine oil, if i remember correctly should range between 95ish DegreeC to 105ish DegreeC.

 

Infact wear and tear occurs at alarming rate when engine oil falls below operating temperature.

Mike,

If on normal riding my temp stays between 82-85C, am I right to say tat's my optimum temp?

Coz I feel so. My ECU loads a normal riding map at 80C after warm-up...

[il4]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 21 2005, 11:57 AM

Mike,

If on normal riding my temp stays between 82-85C, am I right to say tat's my optimum temp?

Coz I feel so. My ECU loads a normal riding map at 80C after warm-up...

that is your water temperature.

[WildCard]

Originally posted by il4@Oct 21 2005, 09:59 AM

that is your water temperature.

hmmm

You told me tat some time back.

So the only way to really know is a temp gauge that can measure the oil temp inside?

[il4]

Originally posted by WildCard@Oct 21 2005, 12:03 PM

hmmm

You told me tat some time back.

So the only way to really know is a temp gauge that can measure the oil temp inside?

yes.....

 

but is there a need for so many guages?

[Bluesky]

Originally posted by duckit@Oct 21 2005, 02:45 AM

u can either choose to DIY , the coolant and the distilled wadter ( aka battery water ) u can get from shell . 1L abt $1.20 - $1.40 , u need about 2 bottle for super 4 .. the ratio is coolant + distilled water( the ratio i not realli sure , my friend who know how to DIY help me Mix ) add up to 2L ..next u muz open ur oil tank .. and u open those tubes that the coolant is leadin to ..and open ur radiator cap ( provided that the bike if fully cool ) next if u got hose , u can aim the hose @ the openin of the where the radiator cap is , and flush inside till all the past coolant and dirty deposites are fully clean and clear water start to come out . Next after flushin , connect back all the tubes and secured nicely . And since u take out so mani thing , u might also want to take out ur resivour tank and disconnect those tubes and wash the tank and brush inside and connect back . Finally u can top up the coolant and distilled mixture... Top it up til its to the top and start ur bike , if ur pump is workin condition , the level will drop and top up til the top after revin ur bike a little . And add up to the top.. And the remaining amount of coolant sld be just enough to fit ur resivour . Cap back ur radiator cap . remeber muz turn twice as it got a anti lock function , Turn and Turn 1 more time . connect all the tube and fuel line and other tube back and secure ur tank. And u got a nicely and clean flush Coolant and radiator system ...

 

Or alternativly if ur lazy and doesnt like to DIY u can go to bukie merah and look for Race werk , they flush and top up for $20 .. I think the $20 is very reasonable price , cuz if u DIY , u will reaslise that the $20 is quite hard to earn ..haha ..

Thanks duckkit for the info!

[raven77]

i recently just diy my coolant by flushing it and wash with coolant flush now the heat is very little compare to last time which was hot between my legs.

[raven77]

actually no need to use anti-freeze in spore since spore temp is hot through out the year read down u will understand

 

 

Coolant Mix and Overheating

 

The problem:

 

Sometimes a water-cooled engine such as the Rotax 582 seems to run hotter than it should, for no apparent reason. An identical engine installed the same way in another plane may be fine, but one runs hot, and the other doesn't. This problem can cause no small amount of hand-wringing and head scratching, but as mysterious as it may seem, it may be quite simple to fix.

 

Now, more precisely, the situation we're talking about is this: the coolant temperatures may run up to the 180 - 190 F range as opposed to the more reasonable 165 - 175 F. Our radiator may be no smaller than someone else's that works just fine, and the thermostat is not stuck or obstructed. It just runs hot.

 

The problem might be that the coolant mix is too rich. That is, too much "antifreeze" and not enough water. And to no one's surprise, what you do to fix it is take out some of the antifreeze and replace it with water. Reducing the mix ratio can easily lower the temperature by 15 F.

 

Why a rich mix gives less cooling:

 

First of all, in this article, we refer to the stuff you buy simply as “antifreeze.” It comes under many different trade names, and for automotive applications, is usually ethylene glycol. We'll just call it “antifreeze.”

 

Now if you've ever poured the stuff into a radiator, you no doubt observed that it is much “syrup-i-er” than water. That is, it has a much higher viscosity. This means that it will not flow as fast through the system as water, and the cooling effect will be less.

 

Further, the specific heat of antifreeze is less than that of water. This means that for a given temperature change, the antifreeze will carry less heat each time it circulates from engine to radiator and back.

 

So, if the mix is too rich, the cooling efficiency will be reduced because (1) the flow rate is less, and (2) less heat is transferred per cycle of the coolant.

 

The manufacturer's recommendation:

 

The standard recommendation is to use a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water. This represents a compromise between cooling efficiency and the ability to prevent the mix from freezing during cold weather. After all, the initial purpose of antifreeze is to prevent freezing.

 

But a 50/50 mix does not give the best cooling. For improved cooling in hot weather, we should use less antifreeze and more water, perhaps going to a 25/75 or a 20/80 mix ratio.

 

Everyone knows antifreeze prevents corrosion, and corrosion is bad. True enough. But, even a 10/90 ratio of antifreeze to water will serve the puproses of inhibiting corrosion, at least according to one source of information.

 

More is better!

 

Not in this case. When you're adding the coolant to an engine, especially to an aircraft engine, you want to do it as good as it can be done. Cut no corners! Don't use just a little if a lot will do. After all, the stuff coming out of the jug looks high-tech and scientific, and it's expensive, so it must be good. Therefore, use a lot!

 

Yes, the stuff is good, high-tech, and all that, but it's physical properties are not as good as plain, pure water when viewed from the point of cooling. Therefore, you must resist the temptation to put in more just because more seems like it should be better.

 

Results:

 

Temperature drops ranging from 10 - 15 F are typically obtained by decreasing the mix from 50/50 down to 25/75 or perhaps 20/80. It is not possible to give precise numbers here because of uncertainty in knowing exactly what the initial mix was, and so forth.

 

In one instance, the original mix in a newly-purchased plane appeared to be pure antifreeze. When the mix was changed to 25/75, the temperatures dropped by 20 F! Here's the email that reported the results:

 

Hi Doc,

 

Well it worked perfectly and I got a 20 degree reduction in water temp by decreasing the mix to 25/75. By the looks of the stuff that came out, I really think that it was full strength antifreeze.

 

Unfortunately it will not be running any time soon. I had an engine failure due to a poor gas tank vent design and didn't see a two strand barbwire fence on the landing. I caught the left landing gear on a post and ripped it off. Needless to say, the rest is self evident. But then that is another story.

Thanks Again,

Al

 

 

Adjusting the mix, starting from scratch:

 

Determining the amounts of antifreeze and water is not particularly difficult if you're filling a completely empty cooling system. The following amounts are calculated for a system whose total volume is 8 units, whether pints, liters, quarts, or whatever. (The total volume of a Rotax 582 system is about 8 pints in typical installations.)

 

Mix Ratio Antifreeze Water

 

50/50 4 4

40/60 3.2 4.8

33/66 2.6 5.4

25/75 2.0 6.0

20/80 1.6 6.4

10/90 0.8 7.2

 

If your system capacity is more than 8 units, say 10 for example, just multiply each number in the table above by 10/8 = 1.25.

 

If your system capacity is less than 8 units, say 6 for example, just multiply each number in the table above by 6/8 = 0.75.

 

Reducing the mix, starting with a 50/50 mix ratio:

 

If the system is already filled with coolant, what you must do is drain part of the mix and replace it with pure water. Based on a system whose total volume is 8 units, here are the amounts to drain in order to lower the mix ratio from 50/50:

 

New Mix Ratio Drain and Replace

 

40/60 1.6

33/66 2.75

25/75 4.0

20/80 4.8

10/90 6.4

 

If your system capacity is more or less than 8 units, you can adjust these numbers the same way as described above.

 

Reducing the Mix, general case:

 

This involves draining a fraction of the coolant and replacing it with pure water as before. The amount to be drained out can be calculated if we know the mix ratio of the coolant presently in the system and the total system volume. The calculation is illustrated in the following.

 

First, express the mix ratio as a percentage, like this:

 

Mix Ratio Percentage

 

50/50 50

40/60 40

25/75 25 .... and so forth.

 

We have two different mix ratios to deal with. One is the mix ratio of the coolant in the system now. We'll call this the OLD mix ratio.

 

The other is the mix ratio we're trying to get. We'll call it NEW.

 

The formula for finding how much to drain and replace with water is

 

Drain = TotVol x ( 1 -- NEW / OLD )

 

where Drain is the amount to be drained out, and TotVol is the total volume of the cooling system.

 

Example:

 

Suppose we have a system whose total volume is 10 pints and the mix ratio of the coolant in it now is 60/40.

 

That is, it has more antifreeze in it than water. We want to reduce the mix to 20/80. How much of the coolant should we drain and replace with water?

 

Mix ratios, in percent: OLD = 60 NEW = 20

 

TotVol = 10 pints

 

Drain = TotVol x ( 1 -- NEW / OLD )

 

= ( 10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 20 / 60 )

 

= ( 10 pints ) x ( 1 -- 0.333 ) = ( 10 pints ) x 0.667

 

= 6.67 pints

 

Therefore, if we drain 6.67 pints of the original coolant and replace it with pure water, the new mix ratio will be 20/80. And that's it.

 

An obvious final comment:

 

If you live in an area where the temperatures fall below freezing, you will need to increase the mix back to a higher value before winter sets in. Which is to say, you will need the antifreeze to prevent the system from freezing up. But in cooler weather, it is unlikely that overheating will be a problem. It would be a shame to forget to change the mix.

 

 

link :-http://www.challengers101.com/CoolantMix.html

[fabian]

[floppy]

Originally posted by fabian@Nov 1 2005, 11:53 PM

in summary,

 

anti freeze has a poorer heat conductivity than water.

hence, anti freeze loses heat a lot slower and is a poorer substitute to used as coolant.

 

more discussion here:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....showtopic=95169

[raven77]

correct

[player1799]

Hi brothers,

Would like to enquire that water that you pour inside the right side of the small fairing one. Your use what kind of water normal distill water and what do your mean by flushing of the coolant?

Cheers

[sino74]

u can use normal tap water..not battery water ahhh.

thrs a marking bet high n low..hav e water fillup only within e marking.

 

flushing meaning to drain out all e coolant water from e radiator n e spare tank..hose run with water or better wif acid...after wic u hav a new radiator water fill up.... :goodluck:

[seekie]

hi sorry noob qn here about coolant.

 

is coolant considered consumable? as in it will evaporate or get lesser after some time? or is it supposed to stay the same amount if the bike is healthy?

 

if coolant level drop, anything / what is wrong with what part of the bike?

[danieltanboonhuat]

me same problem... my reserve tank half empties after 1 month.. happened three times...

 

 

dunno where leak

 

sianz./...

[ivant]

The cooling system is pressurized. The system should be totally sealed and leak free except for the overflow tube at the reserve tank. Evapouration of coolant takes place from there. You should check the level (WHEN COLD) regularly and top up if required.

 

However, if your reserve tank runs dry within a month, that would be considered abnormal. I would suggest first check for leaks, then confirm your thermoswitch on your radiator to be working If problem still persist then change ur radiator cap and flush+refill+bleed your system.

[seekie]

i think shd be 4 months since i last change coolant.

k&t removed the thermostat thingie, changed radiator cap, and give new coolant.

this morning bike overheat, from the side there it looks like empty.

 

so if 4 months empty then its normal?

[ivant]

Originally posted by seekie@Jun 21 2006, 12:51 PM

i think shd be 4 months since i last change coolant.

k&t removed the thermostat thingie, changed radiator cap, and give new coolant.

this morning bike overheat, from the side there it looks like empty.

 

so if 4 months empty then its normal?

removed thermostat or thermoswitch? there is a difference. Anyway, removing either one is nt gd, with the thermoswitch being worse. Drying out in 4 months is also too fast.

 

1)Fill up your reserve coolant to high mark.

2)start up your bike.

3)warm up bike to operating temp then cool down bike

4)check reserve again. top up reserve if needed

6)Warm up your bike till fan opens, keeping an eye on the temp light

 

Does your fan turn on when bike heats up? If fan nv turn on even till the temp light lights up. Switch off immediately and rectify.

 

Is your bike reving sluggish? (due to choked coolant impeller). If yes, pls flush your coolant again.

[seekie]

hmm... i dont remember. it's round round thingie inside near the T junction stuff.

it was out of stock, and k&t say its ok not to change as its more useful in 4 seasons country kind of thing. in singapore where its always hot, not very important to have it.

it was removed as it was rusty, rad cap replace cos rusty as well. maybe previous bikeshop top up with tap water.

 

fan is turning when bike hot. i asked k&t to test also. well that was 4 months ago.

[ivant]

Should be thermostat. You can remove it, just that the engine takes longer to warm up without it.

 

Since you encounter rust in your system, i suggest flushing again just to be safe. A single flush sometimes is not enough to fully remove the rust particles. i encountered a bike that constantly overheats and has coolant spurting out thru the overflow pipe. Turns out it had a badly rusted cooling system. It was so bad that 1-2 weeks after the first flush, the impeller got clogged with rust particles again. The 2nd flush cleared that up.