Will TP take action if we submit videos?

[Heathx]

Hello all. I'm wondering if i send in videos of people using handphone while driving, or driving dangerously and nearly or actually caused accident, will they take retrospective action based on video evidence?

[r1der]

Hello all. I'm wondering if i send in videos of people using handphone while driving, or driving dangerously and nearly or actually caused accident, will they take retrospective action based on video evidence?

 

Can, the police will take down ur particulars n b witness if necessary. Why bro? U got some videos?

[Heathx]

Not yet. But getting my hands on a GoPro soon. Been encountering alot of drivers using phone and causing near collisions.

[r1der]

Not yet. But getting my hands on a GoPro soon. Been encountering alot of drivers using phone and causing near collisions.

 

Great, then buy together ler. I m thinking of buying hero3 after i get my class 2 bike. If buy together mayb got discount?

[r1der]

Not yet. But getting my hands on a GoPro soon. Been encountering alot of drivers using phone and causing near collisions.

 

Great, then buy together ler. I m thinking of buying hero3 after i get my class 2 bike. If buy together mayb got discount?

[MIGHTY MAX]

Gopro3 black selling at$580

[nbk3]

no. TP will not take action unless it is clearly observable that the device is a handphone, which means it will probably need a close up of it, make/model.

 

i submitted a few videos a while back, of drivers on the mobile phones driving haphazardly, clearly with them holding it, and talking. after a few weeks, i followed up with the IO, and he confirmed that no action was taken as it was unable to verify that they indeed were talking on their mobile phones, but they could be using a handsfree set within the vehicle, or even talking to themselves. the reasoning is that, if they were suspected of talking on their phones, the TP will stop the vehicle and confirm that it indeed is a mobile phone, before confiscating it.

 

BUT, if the driver was involved in an accident, the video evidence will portray that he was driving distracted.

[r1der]

no. TP will not take action unless it is clearly observable that the device is a handphone, which means it will probably need a close up of it, make/model.

 

i submitted a few videos a while back, of drivers on the mobile phones driving haphazardly, clearly with them holding it, and talking. after a few weeks, i followed up with the IO, and he confirmed that no action was taken as it was unable to verify that they indeed were talking on their mobile phones, but they could be using a handsfree set within the vehicle, or even talking to themselves. the reasoning is that, if they were suspected of talking on their phones, the TP will stop the vehicle and confirm that it indeed is a mobile phone, before confiscating it.

 

BUT, if the driver was involved in an accident, the video evidence will portray that he was driving distracted.

 

ya, for tis one is complicated because the driver can argue they r not using d phone, or it's not a phone that they're holding but other things such as vibrator etc...

 

but if let say the video shows the driver beats the red light n d number plate is shown clearly, then TP should b able to take action.

[Heathx]

no. TP will not take action unless it is clearly observable that the device is a handphone, which means it will probably need a close up of it, make/model.

 

i submitted a few videos a while back, of drivers on the mobile phones driving haphazardly, clearly with them holding it, and talking. after a few weeks, i followed up with the IO, and he confirmed that no action was taken as it was unable to verify that they indeed were talking on their mobile phones, but they could be using a handsfree set within the vehicle, or even talking to themselves. the reasoning is that, if they were suspected of talking on their phones, the TP will stop the vehicle and confirm that it indeed is a mobile phone, before confiscating it.

 

BUT, if the driver was involved in an accident, the video evidence will portray that he was driving distracted.

 

There's some flawed reasoning... So if i video someone in an alley holding a knife and taking money from a scared old lady, then that video can't be used to catch the person cos he might allege that he was holding a piece of paper and the scared old lady may be his grandma giving him allowance?

 

What if i go up so close to the driver, and clearly catch him on his mobile phone, even if he wasn't driving dangerously, does it count? Or even catching the driver smsing while driving?

 

Revently i encountered one yellow pickup driver, he kept switching lanes dangerously, never check mirror or blind spot, nearly bang into a taxi and a car and a motorcyclist on 3 different lane changes. Even though the taxi horned at him, he continued the lane change anyway, and forced the motorcyclist out of the lane. I was behind him, so i moved up beside him and he was clearly talking on the phone, which i can see to be an iphone cos of the apple logo. Will TP take action if they saw this in video form?

 

What about another case i encountered when the camry in front of me drove at 40kmph at a 70kmph road, and kept jamming brakes even though in front was clear, kept veering left and right also. When i went beside him, at a safe distance, i saw that he was typing something on his ipad while driving. Will TP take action?

 

Cos frankly, if TP won't take action, Singapore roads will be progressively more dangerous for all road users.

 

Anyway, my friend's friend is going to states soon and i'm asking her to help me get a gopro 3 silver. Cheaper that way.

[Jehuty]

no. TP will not take action unless it is clearly observable that the device is a handphone, which means it will probably need a close up of it, make/model.

 

i submitted a few videos a while back, of drivers on the mobile phones driving haphazardly, clearly with them holding it, and talking. after a few weeks, i followed up with the IO, and he confirmed that no action was taken as it was unable to verify that they indeed were talking on their mobile phones, but they could be using a handsfree set within the vehicle, or even talking to themselves. the reasoning is that, if they were suspected of talking on their phones, the TP will stop the vehicle and confirm that it indeed is a mobile phone, before confiscating it.

 

BUT, if the driver was involved in an accident, the video evidence will portray that he was driving distracted.

 

Quite useless aren't they.

[nbk3]

There's some flawed reasoning... So if i video someone in an alley holding a knife and taking money from a scared old lady, then that video can't be used to catch the person cos he might allege that he was holding a piece of paper and the scared old lady may be his grandma giving him allowance?

 

What if i go up so close to the driver, and clearly catch him on his mobile phone, even if he wasn't driving dangerously, does it count? Or even catching the driver smsing while driving?

 

Revently i encountered one yellow pickup driver, he kept switching lanes dangerously, never check mirror or blind spot, nearly bang into a taxi and a car and a motorcyclist on 3 different lane changes. Even though the taxi horned at him, he continued the lane change anyway, and forced the motorcyclist out of the lane. I was behind him, so i moved up beside him and he was clearly talking on the phone, which i can see to be an iphone cos of the apple logo. Will TP take action if they saw this in video form?

 

What about another case i encountered when the camry in front of me drove at 40kmph at a 70kmph road, and kept jamming brakes even though in front was clear, kept veering left and right also. When i went beside him, at a safe distance, i saw that he was typing something on his ipad while driving. Will TP take action?

 

Cos frankly, if TP won't take action, Singapore roads will be progressively more dangerous for all road users.

 

Anyway, my friend's friend is going to states soon and i'm asking her to help me get a gopro 3 silver. Cheaper that way.

 

Quite useless aren't they.

 

yup. i believe each and everyone of us riders can easily spot at least 2 drivers whom are on their phones everyday, this makes for a substantial number. but if TP doesnt stand up to make the roads safer for everyone, instead, come up with campaigns for us to "ride safe ride till old", i believe its a clear cut stance that they are adopting: that they cant be bothered.

 

so we probably need an atittude as well, that we ride like we stole it, and get back at bad drivers ourselves, and probably nothing will happen to us too, since in the first place, TP doesnt care.

 

for bad drivers, we can fug, high beam, chase, etc, all we want. but when we call police/TP, they will simply say "oh, you can go so-so to complain." period. end of story. why not give them something to remember? like a flat tyre or a signboard on their car? now THAT, they will remember.

[MrLau]

There's some flawed reasoning... So if i video someone in an alley holding a knife and taking money from a scared old lady, then that video can't be used to catch the person cos he might allege that he was holding a piece of paper and the scared old lady may be his grandma giving him allowance? .

 

They just plain lazy....

[Heathx]

Kinda feels like something learnt from the men in white. Frustrating max.

[Silent Hunter]

no. TP will not take action unless it is clearly observable that the device is a handphone, which means it will probably need a close up of it, make/model.

 

i submitted a few videos a while back, of drivers on the mobile phones driving haphazardly, clearly with them holding it, and talking. after a few weeks, i followed up with the IO, and he confirmed that no action was taken as it was unable to verify that they indeed were talking on their mobile phones, but they could be using a handsfree set within the vehicle, or even talking to themselves. the reasoning is that, if they were suspected of talking on their phones, the TP will stop the vehicle and confirm that it indeed is a mobile phone, before confiscating it.

 

Wah Lau!!!! That is like saying the driver was using a calculator to do maths and using calculator is not illegal!

[r1der]

extract from TP website:

 

Reporting of Traffic Violation

To report traffic violations, the following necessary ingredients must accompany the violation reports, namely:

 

1. The full registration number of the vehicle of which the driver/rider is alleged to have committed a traffic violation. While the make and colour of the vehicle, if provided, may be advantageous to the investigation process, only the FULL registration number is required.

 

2. The date, time and location of the alleged offence. Location of the alleged offence should be relatively precise (e .g Pan-Island Expressway in the direction of Tuas before the exit into Adam Road, Central Expressway in the direction of Ayer Rajah Expressway at the 5KM mark, etc).

 

3. The nature of the alleged offence. This refers to the circumstances leading to, during, and after the alleged offence (e.g . the lane which the drivers/riders were traveling on, traffic condition, manner of driving/riding, etc).

 

4. Confirmation of willingness to testify in court should the offender dispute the alleged offence. This refers to the feedback provider's willingness to testify in court should the offender dispute the offences alleged against him.

 

5. Full particulars of the feedback provider. This refers to the full name (as in NRIC or passport), NRIC or passport number (work permit or employment pass numbers may be accepted), address (residential or mailing but "PO Box" addresses should not be accepted), contact number (residential/office number accepted but mobile number preferred) and email address (should the feedback provider have one).

 

6. Photo/video evidence or particulars of independent witness(es). Photo and/or video evidence submitted in relation to the incident must be sufficiently clear so as to identify the nature of the alleged offence as well as parties involved. The same requirements apply to photo and/or video evidence submitted by both the feedback provider as well as the alleged offender. Photo and/or video evidence must not be acquired while the evidence provider is driving unless the device used to acquire such evidence is affixed to the vehicle. Particulars of independent witnesses refer to the name and contact information (e .g telephone number, email address, etc) of any independent witness(es).

 

We regret to inform that TP will be unable to proceed further in the absence of any of the above detailed information. You may send in the details to [email protected]

 

song boh?

[Tachnicolour]

Well, the tricky part is that the vehicle has to be in motion whilst the fella is using the phone for it to qualify under 65B.

 

Thus if you were to submit a video, it would have to be showing that the driver is clearly doing so whilst in motion. That would also mean that your camera would have to be focused on the driver. If it were a helmet mounted camera, you would likely to have to point it in the direction of the driver, meaning taking your point of view towards the driver. May be opening yourself up to well.......complications due to

 

Driving without due care or reasonable consideration

65. If any person drives a motor vehicle on a road —

(a)

without due care and attention.

 

Just saying.

 

Now, if you had a pillion with a video camera, that might do the trick.

 

Anyhow, interesting thing was that some time back on crimewatch, they followed unmarked cars out on ops to catch drivers using handphone. The passenger of the unmarked car would use a video camera to record the driver using the phone whilst driving, before pulling them over and asking them to surrender the phone.

[Heathx]

extract from TP website:

 

Reporting of Traffic Violation

To report traffic violations, the following necessary ingredients must accompany the violation reports, namely:

 

1. The full registration number of the vehicle of which the driver/rider is alleged to have committed a traffic violation. While the make and colour of the vehicle, if provided, may be advantageous to the investigation process, only the FULL registration number is required.

 

2. The date, time and location of the alleged offence. Location of the alleged offence should be relatively precise (e .g Pan-Island Expressway in the direction of Tuas before the exit into Adam Road, Central Expressway in the direction of Ayer Rajah Expressway at the 5KM mark, etc).

 

3. The nature of the alleged offence. This refers to the circumstances leading to, during, and after the alleged offence (e.g . the lane which the drivers/riders were traveling on, traffic condition, manner of driving/riding, etc).

 

4. Confirmation of willingness to testify in court should the offender dispute the alleged offence. This refers to the feedback provider's willingness to testify in court should the offender dispute the offences alleged against him.

 

5. Full particulars of the feedback provider. This refers to the full name (as in NRIC or passport), NRIC or passport number (work permit or employment pass numbers may be accepted), address (residential or mailing but "PO Box" addresses should not be accepted), contact number (residential/office number accepted but mobile number preferred) and email address (should the feedback provider have one).

 

6. Photo/video evidence or particulars of independent witness(es). Photo and/or video evidence submitted in relation to the incident must be sufficiently clear so as to identify the nature of the alleged offence as well as parties involved. The same requirements apply to photo and/or video evidence submitted by both the feedback provider as well as the alleged offender. Photo and/or video evidence must not be acquired while the evidence provider is driving unless the device used to acquire such evidence is affixed to the vehicle. Particulars of independent witnesses refer to the name and contact information (e .g telephone number, email address, etc) of any independent witness(es).

 

We regret to inform that TP will be unable to proceed further in the absence of any of the above detailed information. You may send in the details to [email protected]

 

song boh?

 

Sorry, i understand most of the points, except the term independent witness. Does that term mean i need have someone else catch the same driver on camera? Because technically, if i'm reporting him for the offence, then i'm no longer independent. Neither will it be independent if my friend behind me has captured it on his camera as well, cos we are related by some relationship, and thus not independent.

 

If this is indeed one of the clauses before we can report to TP, then it is a very screwed up clause. How would we know someone else independent taking a video of the same offending driver at the same time?

 

Sounds like a loop of red tape heading into a black hole where nothing is done and everything disappears.

 

Well, the tricky part is that the vehicle has to be in motion whilst the fella is using the phone for it to qualify under 65B.

 

Thus if you were to submit a video, it would have to be showing that the driver is clearly doing so whilst in motion. That would also mean that your camera would have to be focused on the driver. If it were a helmet mounted camera, you would likely to have to point it in the direction of the driver, meaning taking your point of view towards the driver. May be opening yourself up to well.......complications due to

 

Driving without due care or reasonable consideration

65. If any person drives a motor vehicle on a road —

(a)

without due care and attention.

 

Just saying.

 

Now, if you had a pillion with a video camera, that might do the trick.

 

Anyhow, interesting thing was that some time back on crimewatch, they followed unmarked cars out on ops to catch drivers using handphone. The passenger of the unmarked car would use a video camera to record the driver using the phone whilst driving, before pulling them over and asking them to surrender the phone.

 

I plan to mount my camera on my helmet. The primary purpose of the camera is to protect myself in the event of an insurance claim, and thus mounting on helm will give me greater mobility and angle like i can capture the car side swiping me just by turning to the right or left, whereas bike mounted is dead angle.

 

Having read your reply, i think the whole situation is quite ridiculous, in the sense that by catching the feller in the act, i'm opening myself up for attack by the TP also for 'dangerous driving because my eyes are not on the road.' It's like saying i chased a robber who is armed with a knife, and then when i apprehend the robber, police arresting me as well cause i am endangering others by causing the robber to be agitated and desperate. Like COME ON!!! what the heck?!

 

Maybe i'll put a mount for the go pro on my pillion's helmet also. Although i seldom pillion people...

[Tachnicolour]

I plan to mount my camera on my helmet. The primary purpose of the camera is to protect myself in the event of an insurance claim, and thus mounting on helm will give me greater mobility and angle like i can capture the car side swiping me just by turning to the right or left, whereas bike mounted is dead angle.

 

Having read your reply, i think the whole situation is quite ridiculous, in the sense that by catching the feller in the act, i'm opening myself up for attack by the TP also for 'dangerous driving because my eyes are not on the road.' It's like saying i chased a robber who is armed with a knife, and then when i apprehend the robber, police arresting me as well cause i am endangering others by causing the robber to be agitated and desperate. Like COME ON!!! what the heck?!

 

Maybe i'll put a mount for the go pro on my pillion's helmet also. Although i seldom pillion people...

 

Having a camera to provide information in the event of an insurance claim is definitely a great idea. It will allow us more evidence in the case whereby the other party refuses to acknowledge blame or, if you happen to capture a passing accident, the police with extra insight.

 

The analogy you used may not be entirely accurate. The scenario you described, if translated into the motorcycling world would be where you pursue the driver who was using the handphone and by doing so, letting him be aware of your actions, which leads to him driving dangerously to avoid getting caught on tape.

 

What would possibly be more appropriate in the case of the TPs intended "without due care and attention" would be more like, if you were recording the vid and turned your attention away from your frontal arc for a certain period of time and say, run into another m/cyclist or drift off line causing other vehicles to take evasive action or fail to notice a pedestrian jaywalking between cars on the other side of your field of view. In the same chasing the robber picture, that would be akin to running after the robber and barging into an old lady causing her to fall over and get injured or scaring a pram-pushing mother into taking evasive action to avoid getting run into.

 

I am not sure if it is possible to actually be charged whilst doing so, but it's additional information for those who would like to record drivers using their handphones. Please take care of yourselves and other road users!

[Heathx]

Having a camera to provide information in the event of an insurance claim is definitely a great idea. It will allow us more evidence in the case whereby the other party refuses to acknowledge blame or, if you happen to capture a passing accident, the police with extra insight.

 

The analogy you used may not be entirely accurate. The scenario you described, if translated into the motorcycling world would be where you pursue the driver who was using the handphone and by doing so, letting him be aware of your actions, which leads to him driving dangerously to avoid getting caught on tape.

 

What would possibly be more appropriate in the case of the TPs intended "without due care and attention" would be more like, if you were recording the vid and turned your attention away from your frontal arc for a certain period of time and say, run into another m/cyclist or drift off line causing other vehicles to take evasive action or fail to notice a pedestrian jaywalking between cars on the other side of your field of view. In the same chasing the robber picture, that would be akin to running after the robber and barging into an old lady causing her to fall over and get injured or scaring a pram-pushing mother into taking evasive action to avoid getting run into.

 

I am not sure if it is possible to actually be charged whilst doing so, but it's additional information for those who would like to record drivers using their handphones. Please take care of yourselves and other road users!

 

Your analogy is more accurate. But the underlying issue is still similar in the sense that the samaritan is the one who gets into trouble as well. If there are others who are planning to do the same vigilante videoing as me, my own guideline is simple, make sure safe before doing it. Priority is still safety. No point catching the person on camera if you crash into the rear of a car that changed lane but you didnt see because u have your field of vision away from the front.

[Demon]

In order to convict, the TP has to prove :

- Driver holding mobile device

- Driver is communicating ie. texting or talking

- Car is moving

 

Arm with only a video, it is difficult to prove the above as most of these offenders were caught red handed.

[Heathx]

In order to convict, the TP has to prove :

- Driver holding mobile device

- Driver is communicating ie. texting or talking

- Car is moving

 

Arm with only a video, it is difficult to prove the above as most of these offenders were caught red handed.

 

If based on just this 3 points, then it's relatively easier to charge those drivers. Guess the only way to know for sure is to test water when my Go Pro arrives.

[Demon]

If based on just this 3 points, then it's relatively easier to charge those drivers. Guess the only way to know for sure is to test water when my Go Pro arrives.

 

 

You have our blessings, go get them all

[Heathx]

You have our blessings, go get them all

 

Wah liao eh, i feel macam like some budding superhero like that... GoProMan.

 

Vigilante that catches errant motorists.