[Discussion] Technical - D.I.Y On Your Super Four!

[quizesilver]

ok.

 

currently i have stock condition front and rear signal lights using light bulbs.

single filament for the rear and dual filament for the front. (for my case, Spec 1)

 

what i have in mind now is to mod the front signal from bulb to LED strip but keeping the rear bulbs untouched.

 

for the front signals, it's dual filament.

i want to convert it to single filament so i can use 1 LED strip for both the pilot and signal indication.

 

i was told that i can simply connect both the front signal and pilot supply wire together and connect to a LED strip.

but in this way, when in pilot mode, the rear signal lights will also light up as the left and right indication wiring are in parallel connection.

 

by using diodes in the above connection shown in the pic,

- when in pilot mode, only the front LED strip lights up.

- the rear bulb will not light up as the diode in the path of signal light supply is in the forward direction to restrict current back flow to the signal wiring.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

if i were to put it in another term, i just want to convert my front signal lights from Dual filament bulb to Single filament bulb, just like Spec 3 front signal light.

 

able to catch what i'm trying to convey...???

 

if i were to buy zener diode, what is the current rating i should be buying?

to what i know, diodes comes in rating of volts and milliamps...

12volts but what's the rating for the current?

 

u sure spec 3 is s single filament?? from what i know it is dual also.

else cant have the pole light function.

even if u are able to do it on it

u are juz going to have this "effect"

"on" bike, bulb on. then when signal extra voltage into same filament, it will juz get brighter. doing this more time, it is going to blow very soon.

 

by connecting two filament together u are going to damage something

either ur bike or the led.

 

go get a yellow brake led all prob solve.

[s4vtec]

u sure spec 3 is s single filament?? from what i know it is dual also.

else cant have the pole light function.

even if u are able to do it on it

u are juz going to have this "effect"

"on" bike, bulb on. then when signal extra voltage into same filament, it will juz get brighter. doing this more time, it is going to blow very soon.

 

by connecting two filament together u are going to damage something

either ur bike or the led.

 

go get a yellow brake led all prob solve.

 

thanks. i'll think of something else.

[Winners]

cos i prefer the LED strips. possible to do this?

 

i heard from a fren telling me to get power diode and install in the below diagram...

 

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs021.snc3/10857_329459540541_828265541_9664574_4019899_n.jpg

 

Was told in this way, both the diodes protects the circuitry before the diodes.

also the rear signal will not light up when in pilot mode (which was what i wanted it to be)...

 

I believe the 1N5401 diode (100V/3A = 300watts) should be more than sufficient for your above application. In fact, the 1N4001 diode (50V/1A = 50watts) can also be used since each signal light bulb is rated only 21watts. Your above circuit should be alright because the diodes will prevent any reverse bias voltage. However, you will get the same light intensity for both the pilot and signal lights because the LED bulb has only 1 rating, whereas the 2-filament bulbs are rated 21-watts (for signal light) and 5-watts (for pilot light). What quizesilver mentioned about getting a yellow brake LED bulb is a better solution, provided it can fit into the casing.

 

Also, do bear in mind that by using LED bulbs for signal lights may also require you to change the existing thermal flasher relay to an electronic type. Otherwise, it may blink very fast because the LED bulbs consume much lesser current and are unable to operate the existing thermal flasher relay properly.

 

Yes, the newer Spec 3 (mine included) are equipped with single filament front signal bulbs and they are also serving as pilot lights (but dimmer) during normal operation. From its electrical diagram, they seem to be connected to an additional relay and hence, the 2 front signal bulbs may be connected in series mode during pilot light operation. However, I have yet to verify this connection.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Winners

[s4vtec]

I believe the 1N5401 diode (100V/3A = 300watts) should be more than sufficient for your above application. In fact, the 1N4001 diode (50V/1A = 50watts) can also be used since each signal light bulb is rated only 21watts. Your above circuit should be alright because the diodes will prevent any reverse bias voltage. However, you will get the same light intensity for both the pilot and signal lights because the LED bulb has only 1 rating, whereas the 2-filament bulbs are rated 21-watts (for signal light) and 5-watts (for pilot light). What quizesilver mentioned about getting a yellow brake LED bulb is a better solution, provided it can fit into the casing.

 

Also, do bear in mind that by using LED bulbs for signal lights may also require you to change the existing thermal flasher relay to an electronic type. Otherwise, it may blink very fast because the LED bulbs consume much lesser current and are unable to operate the existing thermal flasher relay properly.

 

Yes, the newer Spec 3 (mine included) are equipped with single filament front signal bulbs and they are also serving as pilot lights (but dimmer) during normal operation. From its electrical diagram, they seem to be connected to an additional relay and hence, the 2 front signal bulbs may be connected in series mode during pilot light operation. However, I have yet to verify this connection.

 

Bro Winners, you're the man!!!

thank you for the above info... that's what i need.

 

btw, u mentioned about electronic flasher, if i were to change all my signal indications to LED type, where can i get the electronic flasher? any specific name for it?

 

thanks again...

[quizesilver]

Bro Winners, you're the man!!!

thank you for the above info... that's what i need.

 

btw, u mentioned about electronic flasher, if i were to change all my signal indications to LED type, where can i get the electronic flasher? any specific name for it?

 

thanks again...

 

huh u wan is the ans to wat is the diode part ah ??

duhz

 

u dun need to buy electronic flasher.

juz plug a low resistance(1-5ohm), high watt (20W) cermaic resistor across it (read parrallel)

[s4vtec]

huh u wan is the ans to wat is the diode part ah ??

duhz

 

u dun need to buy electronic flasher.

juz plug a low resistance(1-5ohm), high watt (20W) cermaic resistor across it (read parrallel)

 

i thought i did mention earlier abt what diode to buy?

 

i understand ur meaning to plug-in a 20watt resister in parallel to the LED.

 

Thanks quize bro.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Editing post to add pic below...

 

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs001.snc3/10857_331929355541_828265541_9697542_6579830_n.jpg

Edited November 13, 2009 by s4vtec
Add pic...

[Winners]

i thought i did mention earlier abt what diode to buy?

 

i understand ur meaning to plug-in a 20watt resister in parallel to the LED.

 

Thanks quize bro.

 

It's not practical to use the 20-watt resistor because it will defeat the purpose of saving electrical consumption when using LED bulbs. In that case, might as well remain as the normal incandescent bulbs.

 

By the way, your latest circuit drawing which showed the 5ohm/20-watt resistor is wrong because you are connecting the resistor in series to the LED bulb. It won't help the thermal flasher relay to work properly. What quizesilver mentioned is to connect the resistor in parallel to the LED bulb, but this will make the resistor warm during operation. Indirectly, its purpose is to serve as an additional load to substitute a normal filament bulb.

 

However, the resistor in your circuit can be wired up to the pilot light wire so that you can get a dimmer effect for the pilot light operation. But 5ohm is definitely too low for this purpose. Depending on the impedance of the LED bulb used, probably a 1kohm resistor may work. For the best results, you'll need to calculate the current consumption of your LED bulb and share the 12-Volt supply voltage between the resistor and the LED bulb, pending on the minimum workable voltage for the LED bulb. Hope it's not too "cheem" for you?

 

Solid state flasher can also be D-I-Y using the 555 Timer IC and the flashing rate can also be controlled by the user using a potentiometer. However, it's a hassle because you'll need to make it small in size and must also be water-resistant (which will not be easy) in order to be able to fit within the left side pannier, which is not water-tight.

 

Forumer "biz_portal" does sell electronic flasher relay. May be you can PM him for details. I would prefer to use the electronic flasher relay instead of the additional resistor.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Winners

[s4vtec]

It's not practical to use the 20-watt resistor because it will defeat the purpose of saving electrical consumption when using LED bulbs. In that case, might as well remain as the normal incandescent bulbs.

 

By the way, your latest circuit drawing which showed the 5ohm/20-watt resistor is wrong because you are connecting the resistor in series to the LED bulb. It won't help the thermal flasher relay to work properly. What quizesilver mentioned is to connect the resistor in parallel to the LED bulb, but this will make the resistor warm during operation. Indirectly, its purpose is to serve as an additional load to substitute a normal filament bulb.

 

However, the resistor in your circuit can be wired up to the pilot light wire so that you can get a dimmer effect for the pilot light operation. But 5ohm is definitely too low for this purpose. Depending on the impedance of the LED bulb used, probably a 1kohm resistor may work. For the best results, you'll need to calculate the current consumption of your LED bulb and share the 12-Volt supply voltage between the resistor and the LED bulb, pending on the minimum workable voltage for the LED bulb. Hope it's not too "cheem" for you?

 

Solid state flasher can also be D-I-Y using the 555 Timer IC and the flashing rate can also be controlled by the user using a potentiometer. However, it's a hassle because you'll need to make it small in size and must also be water-resistant (which will not be easy) in order to be able to fit within the left side pannier, which is not water-tight.

 

Forumer "biz_portal" does sell electronic flasher relay. May be you can PM him for details. I would prefer to use the electronic flasher relay instead of the additional resistor.

 

bro, thanks for the response.

 

currently i'm wanna work on the front signal bulbs to LED strips conversion first.

once successful, then i'll do the conversion for the rear, which is easier...

 

so, if i were to use the electronic flasher relay with all signal bulbs changed to LED strips,

i will not need to plug-in any resistor for substituting the load. am i right on this?

 

after installing the electronic flasher relay, if i want the dimmer effect on the pilot lights,

all i need to do is to plug-in another 1kohm resistor in series after the pilot wire diode. am i right on this?

 

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs021.snc3/10857_332149135541_828265541_9700155_1816707_n.jpg

 

and to install this "electronic flasher relay",

is it the same (plug and play) as the conventional thermal flasher relay?

or do i need to do extra modifications to the wiring or circuitry?

 

Winners, guess i'll have to spend some thinking, planning and drawing before starting hands on...

Edited November 13, 2009 by s4vtec
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs021.snc3/10857_332149135541_828265541_9700155_1816707_n.jpg

[Iceachilles]

Hi bro,

anyone know how to fix a digital volt meter? The red wire of the volt meter connect to the positive of the batt and the black wire to ignition/headlight or the other way around? Thank you

[Winners]

bro, thanks for the response.

 

currently i'm wanna work on the front signal bulbs to LED strips conversion first.

once successful, then i'll do the conversion for the rear, which is easier...

 

Your below circuit is now correct, provided you will be using the electronic flasher relay.

 

so, if i were to use the electronic flasher relay with all signal bulbs changed to LED strips,

i will not need to plug-in any resistor for substituting the load. am i right on this?

 

Yes.

 

after installing the electronic flasher relay, if i want the dimmer effect on the pilot lights,

all i need to do is to plug-in another 1kohm resistor in series after the pilot wire diode. am i right on this?

 

Yes, but the 1kohm value is just a guide. You may need to do the calculation pending on the impedance of the LED bulb and the desired dimness which you want for your pilot light.

 

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs021.snc3/10857_332149135541_828265541_9700155_1816707_n.jpg

 

and to install this "electronic flasher relay",

is it the same (plug and play) as the conventional thermal flasher relay?

or do i need to do extra modifications to the wiring or circuitry?

 

Most electronic flasher relays are "plug & play", ie: direct substitute. However, do check out with forumer "biz_portal" for the types he carries. He should be able to advise you appropriately because I don't know exactly what are the type he is selling.

 

Winners, guess i'll have to spend some thinking, planning and drawing before starting hands on...

 

Goodluck to your modifications. If it works correctly and satisfactorily, do post your results here again.

[quizesilver]

bro winner

 

i propose the resistor is to help him to save some cost.

a typical electronic relay cost abt USD20, plus shipping etc i also dun noe how much.

as compare to that the resistor of abt S$2-5

 

but u are right on the "for wat" to create extra load.

that y i am curious why he wans to do it...

 

btw s4vtec, in ur previous post u nv mention that u wan to know the part no. u only mention that ur frd mention to use some diode etc, u didnt ask to know the model to use.

also juz for info, a typical led would requires only abt 220ohm anything more it will be reducing it brightness etc.

 

and till now... i still dun know why need the diode... to protect the circuit or ???

as ur aim is to have led strip. u dun need the diode, u juz need the relay to get it correct.

and if u wan to use the led as pole light. give it a 12v + resistor to the led positive lead and the relay to the positive led also ..

when u on ur signal, the power to the led lead will overwrite the brightness and become signal.

[Winners]

Hi Brother quizesilver,

 

I was quoted S$20 for the electronic flasher relay from the forumer "biz_portal". He said that he can give some discount if I were to buy the LED signal bulbs from him as well. I find his prices reasonable. He even told me that it's better to meet him and try on the spot all the items (LEDs, relays, etc) before buying so that there won't be any disputes later. I fully appreciate his salesmanship in this aspect. However, I've yet to buy the parts from him because I'm still contemplating whether to change mine to LEDs. My concern is whether there'll be problems during the vehicle inspection.

 

By the way, to install the 2 x 20-watt resistors (1 for each left and right signal lights) could be problematic because these resistors are quite large in size. Definitely, it'll not be able to fit inside the signal light's housing and will have to be located elsewhere. Also, if their leads are not properly insulated and a short-circuit were to happen later, then the whole bike's electronics may temporarily be out of operation due to a blown fuse, hence causing unnecessary inconveniences.

 

I agree that the diodes are not really necessary, but they can serve as an added protection against reverse bias voltage. In fact, most LED arrays will already have built-in diodes to provide limited protection against voltage surge, if any. Anyway, those 1N4001 diodes are small in size and can easily and safely be incorporated (by soldering of course) just before the lead of the LED bulb.

[s4vtec]

btw s4vtec, in ur previous post u nv mention that u wan to know the part no. u only mention that ur frd mention to use some diode etc, u didnt ask to know the model to use.

also juz for info, a typical led would requires only abt 220ohm anything more it will be reducing it brightness etc.

 

and till now... i still dun know why need the diode... to protect the circuit or ???

as ur aim is to have led strip. u dun need the diode, u juz need the relay to get it correct.

and if u wan to use the led as pole light. give it a 12v + resistor to the led positive lead and the relay to the positive led also ..

when u on ur signal, the power to the led lead will overwrite the brightness and become signal.

 

quize,

 

sorry for not specifying that but my main idea is to see if anyone knows about what i'm trying to do and give some comments before i start this little project...

 

thanks for the info regarding the 220ohm resister for the pilot lights in ur above post.

 

for the diodes, i want them to function/serve as an added protection against reverse bias voltage.

and at the same time when in pilot light mode, the supply will not cross over to the signal wiring and light up the rear bulbs.

 

[s4vtec]

once again, thanks for all info shared from quize and Winners...

will update in here when it's done.

[quizesilver]

Hi Brother quizesilver,

 

I was quoted S$20 for the electronic flasher relay from the forumer "biz_portal". He said that he can give some discount if I were to buy the LED signal bulbs from him as well. I find his prices reasonable. He even told me that it's better to meet him and try on the spot all the items (LEDs, relays, etc) before buying so that there won't be any disputes later. I fully appreciate his salesmanship in this aspect. However, I've yet to buy the parts from him because I'm still contemplating whether to change mine to LEDs. My concern is whether there'll be problems during the vehicle inspection.

 

By the way, to install the 2 x 20-watt resistors (1 for each left and right signal lights) could be problematic because these resistors are quite large in size. Definitely, it'll not be able to fit inside the signal light's housing and will have to be located elsewhere. Also, if their leads are not properly insulated and a short-circuit were to happen later, then the whole bike's electronics may temporarily be out of operation due to a blown fuse, hence causing unnecessary inconveniences.

 

I agree that the diodes are not really necessary, but they can serve as an added protection against reverse bias voltage. In fact, most LED arrays will already have built-in diodes to provide limited protection against voltage surge, if any. Anyway, those 1N4001 diodes are small in size and can easily and safely be incorporated (by soldering of course) just before the lead of the LED bulb.

 

great info, but will juz use the resistor for the time being as getting the electronic relay requires more modification to my ride as it is nt plug and play.

 

ya agree on the size... but think abt it. the resistor will be inside the tail area where the connector is.. and nt necessary to be at the headlight area.

and by doing so, that individual must know some skill 1st, that y i say good luck to him as if he is nt capable it will happened as such...

 

also curious if he know how the "reverse bias voltage" work... haha

[s4vtec]

also curious if he know how the "reverse bias voltage" work... haha

you ha!?!?!

 

 

 

 

 

quize, referring to your post #2351

by connecting two filament together u are going to damage something

either ur bike or the led.

this is the reason why i need the diodes.

 

 

 

 

 

so, u think i'm a dummy??? hehehe...

 

after i complete my mod project, find some free time Winners and quize and me meet for kopi la... okay?

 

 

 

 

and quize, i like your current siggy quotes...

 

“If we open a quarrel between the past and the present, we shall find that we have lost the future”

 

“Losers live in the past. Winners learn from the past and enjoy working in the present toward the future.”

 

Edited November 16, 2009 by s4vtec

[s4vtec]

i jus came back from SLS, bought the 1N4001 diodes, 500ohm and 1k ohm resistors.

 

tried on the bread board, and it's working good.

 

project Signal Mod starting already...

[Winners]

Ya S4vtec, when you've completed the mod, do post here and we'll arrange for a meet up to have a look. After that, maybe I also "gian" already and will mod mine. But I scared wait inspection got problem la. You know those idiots at the inspection centre, especially STA, very "cat" one. VICOM still quite okay, but sometimes also very "cat", depending on your luck on that day.

 

Last time when I rode my 2T bike, that idiot at STA will rev my engine on free load until 5k to 6k rpm. Definitely there will be smoke if you rev without load like this. Eventually, they refused to pass me and I go immediately to VICOM and got it passed. After that, I wrote an email to "F_UCK" them. I challenged them how can they justify the smoke test just by an individual's visual observation? What kind of standard is that? It's very subjective, depending on the mood of the tester on that day. If his wife did not give him last night, so I'll sure to fail my smoke test like that. WTF? If they had used an instrument to verify, then I'll have no argument.

 

Anyway, thanks to quizesilver on the internal tire patch information at another post. I went to K & T, but the mechanic said cannot be repaired and insist that I buy a new tire. I think they are not quite sincere, but just a hard sell tactic to get me to buy a new tire. Anyway, I left and went to Kallang Ave to get it done. The removal of the rear wheel was done by the motor shop, but the patching was done separately by a tire shop. He said that it should work because the punctured hole is still not too big. Total damage was S$12.00 for 2 holes patched internally and S$20.00 for the removal and reinstallation of the rear wheel. Will try out and see how now. If it will leak again (touch wood), then will "lan lan" have to change a new tire lor.

[s4vtec]

Ya S4vtec, when you've completed the mod, do post here and we'll arrange for a meet up to have a look. After that, maybe I also "gian" already and will mod mine.

 

then by that time i can help u to mod if u really keen.

[quizesilver]

Ya S4vtec, when you've completed the mod, do post here and we'll arrange for a meet up to have a look. After that, maybe I also "gian" already and will mod mine. But I scared wait inspection got problem la. You know those idiots at the inspection centre, especially STA, very "cat" one. VICOM still quite okay, but sometimes also very "cat", depending on your luck on that day.

 

Last time when I rode my 2T bike, that idiot at STA will rev my engine on free load until 5k to 6k rpm. Definitely there will be smoke if you rev without load like this. Eventually, they refused to pass me and I go immediately to VICOM and got it passed. After that, I wrote an email to "F_UCK" them. I challenged them how can they justify the smoke test just by an individual's visual observation? What kind of standard is that? It's very subjective, depending on the mood of the tester on that day. If his wife did not give him last night, so I'll sure to fail my smoke test like that. WTF? If they had used an instrument to verify, then I'll have no argument.

 

Anyway, thanks to quizesilver on the internal tire patch information at another post. I went to K & T, but the mechanic said cannot be repaired and insist that I buy a new tire. I think they are not quite sincere, but just a hard sell tactic to get me to buy a new tire. Anyway, I left and went to Kallang Ave to get it done. The removal of the rear wheel was done by the motor shop, but the patching was done separately by a tire shop. He said that it should work because the punctured hole is still not too big. Total damage was S$12.00 for 2 holes patched internally and S$20.00 for the removal and reinstallation of the rear wheel. Will try out and see how now. If it will leak again (touch wood), then will "lan lan" have to change a new tire lor.

 

3 type of mechanic

1 - out to suc k u dry

2 - understand your need, and advise u accordingly

3 - will not bother, u say change i change.

 

knt is (2),

for tire with two puncture in real life the tire is gone esp u are on s4

the traction is different compare to car. go ask ard.

glad that u found ur a shop (3) which meet ur requirement.

 

why need to test smoke?

 

btw according to the requirement is need to rev till 5-6k they are testing for sound.

 

i dont remember there is a need to test for smoke. maybe i dun ride a 2stroke.

[Winners]

3 type of mechanic

1 - out to suc k u dry

2 - understand your need, and advise u accordingly

3 - will not bother, u say change i change.

 

knt is (2),

for tire with two puncture in real life the tire is gone esp u are on s4

 

But their mechanic never mention to me that a 2-puncture tire is a goner, despite I told him that I already had 2 holes, but only 1 was leaking. He kept insisting that puncture repaired with worm patch cannot be patched again with internal patching because the reamed hole is too big for his (koyok) patch. I don't understand why his boss didn't tell me so when I first spoke to him (about my predicament) on the phone just before I went down to their shop. I had explained to him very clearly my case over the phone call. I interpret this as a sales tactic to pressure me into buying a new tire altogether.

the traction is different compare to car. go ask ard.

glad that u found ur a shop (3) which meet ur requirement.

 

Actually, if the internal patch is done properly and correctly, it can be just as good because the rubber patch will bond together with the tire material.

why need to test smoke?

 

All 2T engines will be subjected to smoke test during inspection. That's because the 2T oil is being burned together in the combustion process, not being recycled like in a 4-stroke engine. Unfortunately, our inspection centers for motorcycles are not equipped with the proper instrument for this test, and they will always base on the tester's visual smoke estimation being emitted from the exhaust, which as I had said before, is very subjective and unprofessional. They only utilize their smoke measuring instrument for diesel vehicles.

btw according to the requirement is need to rev till 5-6k they are testing for sound.

 

For sound test, they have a microphone attached nearby to the exhaust. This is usually problem free. Also, my silencer was replaced to a third party (YANMAR) brand because the original one cannot be found anymore since it was more than 6 years old. When I went to STA, the bloody tester told me not to waste my money to make payment because he will never pass me due to not having the original silencer. I told him that my motorcycle model is no more being imported by the agent and I can never get the original silencer anymore. Besides, I challenged him on the main criteria for the testing of the silencer, which in effect is to ensure its sound level is within the allowable (db) limit. Why is it a bother whether it is original or not? 2-stroke silencers are not equipped with catalytic converters and hence will have no effect on environmental issues.

i dont remember there is a need to test for smoke. maybe i dun ride a 2stroke.

 

Anyway, I'm still monitoring my internal patched repairs for the time being. So far so good.

[aixin]

Last time when I rode my 2T bike, that idiot at STA will rev my engine on free load until 5k to 6k rpm. Definitely there will be smoke if you rev without load like this. If they had used an instrument to verify, then I'll have no argument.

wah pian, how can like that one...ya lor, 2T bike sure have smoke if rev unreasonable...at least have peace of mind from Vicom tested ok for your bike.

 

He said that it should work because the punctured hole is still not too big. Total damage was S$12.00 for 2 holes patched internally and S$20.00 for the removal and reinstallation of the rear wheel. Will try out and see how now. If it will leak again (touch wood), then will "lan lan" have to change a new tire lor

.

 

When I bought spec3 then, there were about 3-5 patched holes for both front and rear. Still working very finely, until I worried for the safety of other road users and got it replaced.

[quizesilver]

gd luck then

i live my life only depending on the two tire and brake.

i will not risk them.

 

if u wan to ride. be safe by ensure the basic stuff are working ok. u only got 1 life.

 

cheers guess the mindset is different now. anyway off topic too.

 

ride safe.

[MiLk]

anybody wants to diy spray black the header?

[army_ncc]

anybody wants to diy spray black the header?

 

i just sprayed mine use the lazy method. haha. overall still okie.