Caution buying used bikes

[blackness]

Interesting thread. Btw TS started this thread by cautioning against buying from private sellers. I disagree. I would rather buy from private sellers than shops. Shops are more likely to do some works to cover up defects as compared to private sellers. Sellers most likely would have checked with shops' take in price before pricing their sales. Why let shops earn if you can sell it yourself? Shops also normally take in at ridiculously low price to make money.

 

With regards to sellers' pricing, it is demand and supply, and up to both parties to negotiate. I personally think it is wrong to go around disturbing ppl's thread, in the name of doing justice. Everyone has their own perception of fair value. Some value Honda's reliability, some value certain Italian brands, some prefer German, some just like the bike. So they decide for themselves how much they willing to pay. You definitely can't say all bikes got ZERO value end of 10 years. Basically no matter what you or I say, the market forces will determine the sales.

 

Btw I found this previous thread started by the TS, highlighting the important part in bold.

 

 

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/420810-Unrealistic-2nd-hand-bike-prices?highlight=

 

Hahaha and the TS is posting unconstructive replies himself.

 

To others out there. You have to accept the fact: bike prices are rising, whether it's second or first hand. If you don't want to spend much on a brand new, you only have 3 options:

1) suck thumb and buy an expensive secondhand

2) don't own a bike at all

3) keep lurking at the second hand market waiting for a good deal, which you may never get what you want

[teambhp]

Now we have people telling us to accept buying bikes at high prices. Buyers out there, what do you think?

[mechwira]

while you're at it, include car buyers too.

 

tell car buyers not to accept that current car prices especially secondhand are very high.

 

car buyers out there, what do you think?

[teambhp]

while you're at it, include car buyers too.

 

tell car buyers not to accept that current car prices especially secondhand are very high.

 

car buyers out there, what do you think?

Ya...ask in mycarforum. Dun need shoot here shoot there. Be mature

[mechwira]

Dun need shoot here shoot there. Be mature

 

sure bro. i'll ask again my points in a very mature, professional manner.

 

1) Depreciation is an approximate percentage drop based on market demand. it is generally accepted that any japanese car/bike will depreciate up to 20% immediately upon purchase, and thereafter approximately 10% annually. buy a new GSX-R1000 for (i think) $32K, and immediately as a secondhand its value is about 80%, about $25.6k, even one month after purchase. thereafter in its second year, its value drop about another 10%, about $23k. this depreciation rate may climb higher the older the bike gets. continental bike/car though has lower depreciation percentage.

 

is this calculation of depreciation wrong?

 

2)a brand new Ducati Panigale by my estimation is about $45k. going by your formula, this bike's depreciation is $45k / 10 years = $4.5k annually. a brand new GSX-R100o is $32k. same formula, depreciation of $3.2k annually. feel free to correct my price. by this calculation, the ducati has a higher depreciation than the suzuki.

 

is this correct? if your formula is correct but ducati supposed to have lower depreciation, please explain the discrepancy. or is your formula correct and ducati indeed has a higher depreciation than a suzuki?

 

3)for several years since car COE went sky-high, second hand car prices also went up. price of 6-year old hyundai avante from dealer (not unrealistic private seller) is 45-50k; the same price as the car when it was brand new six years ago.

 

are we to expect the trend to be different for bikes? or are drivers suppose to in some way also 'not accept' these high prices? how do we go about 'not accepting' these prices and still be able to buy bike/car at 'reasonably low' prices?

[calebike]

Ya...ask in mycarforum. Dun need shoot here shoot there. Be mature

 

on a personal note. tread starter asking someone to be mature? have you forgot how you called me an idiot after enquiring on my Super 4 and getting an unfavourable reply. or you need a screenshot to remind you.

[blackness]

he's probably a professional market analyst who deals with statistics and depreciation trends of fixed assets. we childish commoners will never apprehend his concept.

 

teambhp i suggest you consolidate all good deals, classify them into class 2,2A,2B, so that our fellow riders can buy a bike that's not overpriced. This is more constructive than simply shooting down expensive bike sales. A mature person like you should also answer questions. I refer to my previous post with 3 options to which you answered

Now we have people telling us to accept buying bikes at high prices. Buyers out there, what do you think?

do you have other options for potential buyers out there?

[kzone]

Let say I buy that busa at $7.5k and renew coe immediately at 6k. So total I would have forked out $13.5k to ride the busa for another 10yrs. So depreciation will be $1350 per year. Does this calculation make sense?

 

 

bro, wud u do this? essentially fork out 13.5K CASH for a 10 yr old hayabusa?

[teambhp]

bro, wud u do this? essentially fork out 13.5K CASH for a 10 yr old hayabusa?

Up for awareness

[kzone]

so sianz... COE still so high, no $$$ to buy new bikes.

Old bikes prices also going up, not worth it to buy...

 

but still itchy to change bike... sianz. any bike rental companies here?

[di_andrei]

That's why I single out that Busa in earlier posts. Crazy price. As for whether body is worth 4k,we won't be able to give a fair value until the bike is brought to shop for inspection.

 

Wait, I thought you said all the bikes with expired COE are worth zero, what do you need to inspect?

[teambhp]

Wait, I thought you said all the bikes with expired COE are worth zero, what do you need to inspect?

Yes.it's zero value. But if you buying to renew coe,then better get an inspection. You dun wanna be saddled with a problematic bike

[di_andrei]

nonetheless, i still disagree with the idea that a bike's value drop to $0 upon COE expiry. i think $4k is a fair price for the haya with expiring COE. plus 7k for COE, that works out to one-third the price of a brand new haya, for a ten-year old that can go another ten years. that guy's asking price is way too high, but neither is the bike worthless.

 

Spot on. A lot of second hand asking prices are too high, but we have to remember, these are ASKING prices, not the price that these bikes end up selling at. Buyers often negotiate a discount. Regardless, the bike is not worthless at the end of the COE period and depreciation cannot be calculated as price divided by remaining COE years.

[di_andrei]

Yes.it's zero value. But if you buying to renew coe,then better get an inspection. You dun wanna be saddled with a problematic bike

 

Zero value? Do you have a free 10 year old Hayabusa? Because I'm very interested.

[teambhp]

Zero value? Do you have a free 10 year old Hayabusa? Because I'm very interested.

You sound like a child. Go toys r us

[mechwira]

You sound like a child. Go toys r us

 

i will re-ask di_andrei's point in a mature manner.

 

if a bike's value is zero at ten years as you have claimed, why then is there a need to assess the condition of the hayabusa to determine its worth? does it not mean that regardless of whether the bike is in good or poor condition, its worth is still zero?

 

i await your response to all the questions that have been raised thus far.

 

thank you.

[teambhp]

i will re-ask di_andrei's point in a mature manner.

 

if a bike's value is zero at ten years as you have claimed, why then is there a need to assess the condition of the hayabusa to determine its worth? does it not mean that regardless of whether the bike is in good or poor condition, its worth is still zero?

 

i await your response to all the questions that have been raised thus far.

 

thank you.

Yes, its still zero. U can scrap it as smelly metal to get cash

[teambhp]

sure bro. i'll ask again my points in a very mature, professional manner.

 

1) Depreciation is an approximate percentage drop based on market demand. it is generally accepted that any japanese car/bike will depreciate up to 20% immediately upon purchase, and thereafter approximately 10% annually. buy a new GSX-R1000 for (i think) $32K, and immediately as a secondhand its value is about 80%, about $25.6k, even one month after purchase. thereafter in its second year, its value drop about another 10%, about $23k. this depreciation rate may climb higher the older the bike gets. continental bike/car though has lower depreciation percentage.

 

is this calculation of depreciation wrong?

 

2)a brand new Ducati Panigale by my estimation is about $45k. going by your formula, this bike's depreciation is $45k / 10 years = $4.5k annually. a brand new GSX-R100o is $32k. same formula, depreciation of $3.2k annually. feel free to correct my price. by this calculation, the ducati has a higher depreciation than the suzuki.

 

is this correct? if your formula is correct but ducati supposed to have lower depreciation, please explain the discrepancy. or is your formula correct and ducati indeed has a higher depreciation than a suzuki?

 

3)for several years since car COE went sky-high, second hand car prices also went up. price of 6-year old hyundai avante from dealer (not unrealistic private seller) is 45-50k; the same price as the car when it was brand new six years ago.

 

are we to expect the trend to be different for bikes? or are drivers suppose to in some way also 'not accept' these high prices? how do we go about 'not accepting' these prices and still be able to buy bike/car at 'reasonably low' prices?

If a buyer can accept these prices, then fine.

[teambhp]

on a personal note. tread starter asking someone to be mature? have you forgot how you called me an idiot after enquiring on my Super 4 and getting an unfavourable reply. or you need a screenshot to remind you.

Yep. I need a screenshot. If not,dun tarnish my name

[teambhp]

he's probably a professional market analyst who deals with statistics and depreciation trends of fixed assets. we childish commoners will never apprehend his concept.

 

teambhp i suggest you consolidate all good deals, classify them into class 2,2A,2B, so that our fellow riders can buy a bike that's not overpriced. This is more constructive than simply shooting down expensive bike sales. A mature person like you should also answer questions. I refer to my previous post with 3 options to which you answered

do you have other options for potential buyers out there?

Other options,if wanna buy, pay more for old n new bikes. If not, wait it out

[mechwira]

Yes, its still zero. U can scrap it as smelly metal to get cash

 

Thank you for the reply. And may I ask that you be maturein your response as well.

 

To add further to di_andrei's point, if this is the case, why did you say that the hayabusa should be sent for inspection to see if it is worth 4k or any amount for that matter? Does this not mean that regardless of the bike's condition, it is still zero value?

 

And to add further still, it is generally accepted that the value of secondhand goods, be it bikes or cars or any product, is actually how much it can be sold for in the secondhand market. People generally will not buy a ten year old bajaj pulsar at any price because nobody thinks it can last another ten years. Therefore its value is zero. On the other hand, people would be willing to buy a ten year old ducati, and therefore it has value which would be the average price it sells for.

 

Is this concept of secondhand value wrong?

[mechwira]

If a buyer can accept these prices, then fine.

 

Thank you again. However, you have not directly answered my question.

 

Is my concept of depreciation wrong?

 

Going by your formula, does it mean a ducati has a higher depreciation than an equivalent suzuki? If not, why does your formula show a discrepancy?

[teambhp]

Thank you for the reply. And may I ask that you be maturein your response as well.

 

To add further to di_andrei's point, if this is the case, why did you say that the hayabusa should be sent for inspection to see if it is worth 4k or any amount for that matter? Does this not mean that regardless of the bike's condition, it is still zero value?

 

And to add further still, it is generally accepted that the value of secondhand goods, be it bikes or cars or any product, is actually how much it can be sold for in the secondhand market. People generally will not buy a ten year old bajaj pulsar at any price because nobody thinks it can last another ten years. Therefore its value is zero. On the other hand, people would be willing to buy a ten year old ducati, and therefore it has value which would be the average price it sells for.

 

Is this concept of secondhand value wrong?

Why you still dun get it? Never mind lah..I am beyond words already. Just say whatever you like

[teambhp]

Dear Readers

 

There are many bikes on sales in this forum. Some are from direct owners and some are from bikeshops.

 

I would like to caution about buying from direct owners. Some of the questions you should think about are

 

1) Owner has changed a lot of parts on the bike, added accesssories etc. Some even overhauled the engine and claim that bike is in good condtion. Think about it! Why would anyone in the world spend money to repair the bike, then sell it off to you?

 

2) All bikes have wear and tear items. The older the bike, the more problematic it is. Yet there are sellers claiming that the bike is in prefect condtion. How is that possible? Even new bikes are not prefect.

 

3) Assuming you find a really good offer. Seller dilligently maintain bike. Outlook is good. Wear and tear parts replaced and there are receipts to prove. You want to buy from him/her. Please think again. Outlook can be done nicely. Parts can be replaced by a good seller. One word of caution though....Internal leaks within the engine that cannot be seen by the naked eye.

 

For example, if the bike has excessive oil consumption problem, you will not know it till you have clocked up some mileage. By the time you know, it is too late. How about coolant seeping into the combustion chamber slowly? It will be months later before the bike will give out smoke. Do you have recourse? Anwer is NO.

 

Therefore, please buy with care and ride safe.

Up for awareness

[filtered]

Going by your logic, every bike that renews COE is all worth the same value ie the prevailing COE PQP, since the machine value is zero upon expiry

 

hwah!!! 10 yr old Ducati classic also same value as Phantom if renew COE....I also want....lol