advice needed on traffic accidents charge.

[kogeban]

I am here today to share my experience and hopefully to get advice from people who have relevant knowledge about such cases.

 

I was riding within NUS with my girlfriend. Only my GF is wearing a helmet as I only have one helmet with me.

 

While riding NUS Business School, I was stopped by two NUS security personnel on marshalling duties. They were on the left most lane of a three lane road. They shouted and signalled for me to stop. After stopping my motorcycle in front of them (my bike was stopped completely), they used their body to block my bike to prevent me from moving off. They used their bodies to block my bike and hold onto my handlebar to prevent me from moving off. They questioned me as to why I am riding without a helmet and insisted that I switched off my ignition and get off my bike. I did not comply immediately as I felt that they have no authority to do so. There were some tension between me and the security guards and at some point in time we were shouting at each other. As I do not want to create a scene, I decide to get off my bike and complied with the security guards. They only released their grip on my handlebar after seeing that I am complying with them (and after I asked them to do so). I let my girlfriend alight from my bike before stopping my bike at the side of the road. I followed one security guard to a nearby car park whereas the other returned to his marshalling duties.

 

As we were reaching the car park, another security guard arrived which I presume is their supervisor. They proceed to take down our particulars (IC and contact numbers). I admitted my mistake to the supervisor for not wearing my helmet when riding. The supervisor continued to lecture me about the danger or riding without a helmet. I retorted that I understand the consequence (3 demerit points) and asked him to stop. He only informed me that he will report me to the Traffic Police for riding without a helmet.

 

Following which, we proceed back to my bike with the supervisor walking in front of me and the other security guard walking beside me. Upon reaching my bike, I see the supervisor talking to the other security guard involved whom is still performing his marshalling duties with no sign of distress or injuries. I then rode off with my bike.

 

After which, I received a letter from the Traffic Police Department about one week later informing me of an accident which I am involved in. I proceeded to the nearest police station to make a police report about the accident before proceeding to the Traffic Police Department to give my statement. At the Traffic Police Department, I found out from the IO that the other party have sustained a hairline fracture and was awarded 3 days MC.

 

Point in doubt.

- No one showed signs of distress or injuries throughout the incident.

- The guard who claim to be injured is able to resume his marshalling duties (standing) right after the incident.

- When I am proceeding to my bike, the supervisor is already interacting with the other guard back on marshalling duties. He did not stopped me from moving off. He should have done so if his staff is truly injured from this incident.

- Despite having my contact number, they did not contact me to notify me of the additional charge/offence that they claim I have committed.

 

I have checked online today and realised that I am awarded a 3 demerit points for riding without a helmet and 6 demerit point for careless riding which resulted in an accident.

Edited May 16, 2015 by kogeban

[kogeban]

The case in point is that I admitted to the charge on riding without helmet. But I want to contest on the charge of careless riding in which I cause a hairline fracture without moving my bike. Is there hope to appeal for this case ?

[mechwira]

your word against theirs.

 

your only hope is evidence that they lied, such as independent witness. obviously your gf does not count. if you cannot bring forth any evidence, you're pretty much stuck with the charge.

 

and btw, i rode during my time in ntu a long time ago. i dun understand riders so heck care ride without helmet in campus. some even unlicensed. whether or not you are innocent of the accident, the fact is you invited trouble in the first place.

[buttbutt8]

How did the hairline fracture occur? Did u go back to confront the security?

[Isopropyl]

i find that it is unlikely that you can cause someone to sustain fracture without yourself knowing it. it is good to know which part of his body sustain the injury. hairline fracture usually require a sharp blow to the part or maybe a fall. elderly people can sustain such injury much more easier. try to remember is there is any direct contact. it can happen during all those struggle especially when the guard is holding onto your bike tightly.

 

anyway, i doubt you can prove anything to your advantage. i sure they have medical report and witness in order to make such claim. the only thing i have doubt is just 3 days MC for fracture? maybe it just a sprain or muscle pull but somehow it was being translated to as fracture. regardless, that is enough to charge you under reckless riding. MC 4 days and above and the case is report-able under workplace safety and health although i am not too sure how that might affect you.

 

on the other hand, are any of you a student there? i suggest you guys should watch your attitude as it might cause your place in the university if there is any major accident. the security guards are doing a good job in ensuring the campus is safe from nonsense like this and he was injure in the course of duty. maybe he should just mind his own business and allow people to crack their bloody skull will be better. yes?

 

BTW, you allow your gf to ride without helmet? seriously? what are you thinking?

[kogeban]

How did the hairline fracture occur? Did u go back to confront the security?

 

I was told by the IO that the one of the campus security suffered hairline fracture, didnt say what how. I didnt want to go back to confront them as the investigation from the TP is already on going, didnt want to interfere with the investigation.

[kogeban]

i find that it is unlikely that you can cause someone to sustain fracture without yourself knowing it. it is good to know which part of his body sustain the injury. hairline fracture usually require a sharp blow to the part or maybe a fall. elderly people can sustain such injury much more easier. try to remember is there is any direct contact. it can happen during all those struggle especially when the guard is holding onto your bike tightly.

 

I dont remember moving my bike during the whole incident, there isn't really any struggle and I am damn sure that I stopped my bike before the security guard came any nearer. If not, it will be a clear cut collision.

 

anyway, i doubt you can prove anything to your advantage. i sure they have medical report and witness in order to make such claim. the only thing i have doubt is just 3 days MC for fracture? maybe it just a sprain or muscle pull but somehow it was being translated to as fracture. regardless, that is enough to charge you under reckless riding. MC 4 days and above and the case is report-able under workplace safety and health although i am not too sure how that might affect you.

 

Was told by the IO that the other party had 3 days MC. But how can I be charged careless riding when I have stopped my bike. The only way I can cause the damage to him while riding is that, the campus security jumped and grabbed onto my bike even before I stopped my bike. If this is the case, it would have been a clear cut collision and I doubt they will let me off on the spot and tell me that they will report me for riding without a helmet ONLY. (

 

on the other hand, are any of you a student there? i suggest you guys should watch your attitude as it might cause your place in the university if there is any major accident. the security guards are doing a good job in ensuring the campus is safe from nonsense like this and he was injure in the course of duty. maybe he should just mind his own business and allow people to crack their bloody skull will be better. yes?

 

BTW, you allow your gf to ride without helmet? seriously? what are you thinking?

 

Sorry, my bad. I meant that only my GF is wearing the helmet. I am not wearing one.

[kogeban]

your word against theirs.

 

your only hope is evidence that they lied, such as independent witness. obviously your gf does not count. if you cannot bring forth any evidence, you're pretty much stuck with the charge.

 

and btw, i rode during my time in ntu a long time ago. i dun understand riders so heck care ride without helmet in campus. some even unlicensed. whether or not you are innocent of the accident, the fact is you invited trouble in the first place.

 

That day the incident happened was a Saturday which is a non-school day. Clear weather. Traffic was extremely light. I admit my mistake of not wearing a helmet. I know the consequence 3 demerit points and fine. I am ready to pay the penalty and I know the danger is low. Why I did what I did was due to the fact that it is a non school day and traffic was light. I am riding in the school compound and not going very fast.

 

I dont think I am inviting trouble when I did that. I think I invited trouble when I retorted at the campus security. But then, I didn't expect the case to escalate in this manner.

[kogeban]

Thanks for the input guys. But what I wanted from sharing this case is to seek advice on how I can proceed on for my appeal. And what I am appealing is not the charge for not wearing a helmet. I know the consequences and am ready to pay for that.

 

What I am not ready to pay for is the lie that the campus security came up with. They stopped me and claim that they will report me for not wearing a helmet. Let me go despite one of their personnel sustaining a hairline fracture whom is able to resume his marshalling duties which requires him to stand (I doubt they will do this if one of their staff is really injured in the incident. They will definitely detain me and call the police immediately). Report me to TP for causing an accident without informing me despite having my contact details.

 

Nothing sounds fishy to you guys?

[zalk]

Many low speed motor vehicle injuries are not apparent from the start. Especially on older people. Symptoms may only emerge a week after the accident. If it was fraudulent the doctor will not give MC. The fact is you should not have argued. You're on their property, you follow their rules. Simple as that. You wouldn't argue with a condominium security guard when you're riding in a condo would you?

[buttbutt8]

TS, I feel for u. Campus security can be a pain at times. If they have already awarded u with demerits points, why did u say that investigation is on-going? Thought they can only do so upon concluding the case? I suggest u write to their QSM and demand a detailed explanation.

[kogeban]

Many low speed motor vehicle injuries are not apparent from the start. Especially on older people. Symptoms may only emerge a week after the accident. If it was fraudulent the doctor will not give MC. The fact is you should not have argued. You're on their property, you follow their rules. Simple as that. You wouldn't argue with a condominium security guard when you're riding in a condo would you?

 

It is not a low speed crash. There is no collision to speak of. I stopped the bike before they hold onto my bike. This point is clear.

 

I did not argue with them. Simply told them to let me go and I know my mistake which I am ready to pay for (albeit in a harsher tone).

 

I am asking for advice and help here. Not another lecture session.

 

If it was fraudulent the doctor will not give MC.

 

Have you not heard of people getting MC by faking sickness before? Are all MC cases genuine?

Edited May 17, 2015 by kogeban

[mechwira]

in the more than ten years i've been in this forum, i've noticed that forumers here in general advocate responsible riding and are very, very sensitive to any biker who paints riding in a negative light. you won't get many sympathizers.

 

in the next week, you are going to see more bikers come in here and lecture you. a small number will sympathize, but a majority will come here and do their own lecture. not that they think the guards have a right making a false report, but most bikers here will feel you asked for it all, from riding helmetless to responding in a negative manner.

 

advise? suck thumb.

 

Why I did what I did was due to the fact that it is a non school day and traffic was light. I am riding in the school compound and not going very fast.

 

I dont think I am inviting trouble when I did that.

 

sure. thats valid i guess.

 

I think I invited trouble when I retorted at the campus security. But then, I didn't expect the case to escalate in this manner.

 

yeah. would have been okay to be nasty to the guards (who by the way, contrary to wat you said, did have the authority to stop you, make you dismount, take down your particulars and prevent you from riding) if they reasonably did not escalate with a false report.

[kogeban]

in the more than ten years i've been in this forum, i've noticed that forumers here in general advocate responsible riding and are very, very sensitive to any biker who paints riding in a negative light. you won't get many sympathizers.

 

in the next week, you are going to see more bikers come in here and lecture you. a small number will sympathize, but a majority will come here and do their own lecture. not that they think the guards have a right making a false report, but most bikers here will feel you asked for it all, from riding helmetless to responding in a negative manner.

 

advise? suck thumb.

 

 

 

sure. thats valid i guess.

 

 

 

yeah. would have been okay to be nasty to the guards (who by the way, contrary to wat you said, did have the authority to stop you, make you dismount, take down your particulars and prevent you from riding) if they reasonably did not escalate with a false report.

 

 

I am not seeking for sympathisers. I am seeking help and advice to appeal on a offence I did not commit. I don't agree on "such thumb". This will give the campus security the false sense that they can get away with their lies.

[blackness]

TS, I feel for u. Campus security can be a pain at times. If they have already awarded u with demerits points, why did u say that investigation is on-going? Thought they can only do so upon concluding the case? I suggest u write to their QSM and demand a detailed explanation.

 

Did the traffic police send you a letter informing that they have concluded their investigations? I believe you should first be issued an official charge letter, rather than suddenly realizing you are awarded demerit points. If you did receive that letter, did you not attempt to appeal?

 

RTA with injuries sustained by any party is much more serious than not wearing helmet. You better fight the case if its really not true.

 

oh, while making the police report, you didn't question/argue about the fracture situation?

[kogeban]

TS, I feel for u. Campus security can be a pain at times. If they have already awarded u with demerits points, why did u say that investigation is on-going? Thought they can only do so upon concluding the case? I suggest u write to their QSM and demand a detailed explanation.

 

Did the traffic police send you a letter informing that they have concluded their investigations? I believe you should first be issued an official charge letter, rather than suddenly realizing you are awarded demerit points. If you did receive that letter, did you not attempt to appeal?

 

RTA with injuries sustained by any party is much more serious than not wearing helmet. You better fight the case if its really not true.

 

oh, while making the police report, you didn't question/argue about the fracture situation?

 

I have received my charge sheet as of yesterday. I am awarded 6 demerit points with $200 dollar fine. As well as the charge for not wearing helmet which I did not include in the attachment. I tried calling Traffic Police yesterday and was told that my IO is on study leave. Directed to her supervisor. He is unwilling to disclose any more information about the case or what are the evidence against me. The only evidence that I know of from my IO is a CCTV footage which she claimed is too far to determine anything.

 

He keep asking me to submit a formal appeal. He claimed that he haven even read my initial statement before and don't know about the case. But how will the content of my appeal be much different from my initial statement if I don't know what is up against me? Should I try to speak to my IO before making my appeal?>

 

Looking at the charge sheet, it is seems that they are charging me for causing the damage with a moving vehicle (please correct me if I am wrong). This is ridiculous.

Edited May 19, 2015 by kogeban

[y0shimi]

Weird that the security suffered injuries as there doesnt seems to be any physical contact. It might be hard but try to check the area for CCTV and request for footage. Or could it be that you are withholding some information instead of the truth? There is no smoke without a fire though...

[matthias76]

In Tort, there's the Eggshell Skull principle.

 

You commit a tort against a person, doesn't matter if the person is especially weak

 

You should be prepared for a law suit claim from the security guard just in case. If you are awarded demerit points, it means TP has allowed you to compound. You can claim trial and risk a higher penalty owing to a conviction in court.

[nicky boy]

They shouted and signaled for me to stop. After stopping my motorcycle in front of them (my bike was stopped completely), they used their body to block my bike to prevent me from moving off. They used their bodies to block my bike and hold onto my handlebar to prevent me from moving off. They questioned me as to why I am riding without a helmet and insisted that I switched off my ignition and get off my bike. I did not comply immediately as I felt that they have no authority to do so. There were some tension between me and the security guards and at some point in time we were shouting at each other. As I do not want to create a scene, I decide to get off my bike and complied with the security guards. They only released their grip on my handlebar after seeing that I am complying with them (and after I asked them to do so).

 

From your above mentioned lines, it seems you did resist their actions with your engine running,though you came to a complete halt. May be they used that for filing a charge against you.

 

Anyways as other team members said, just pay off the charge and in future ride carefully or to fight a law suit or whatever by spending more money.

[kogeban]

From your above mentioned lines, it seems you did resist their actions with your engine running,though you came to a complete halt. May be they used that for filing a charge against you.

 

Anyways as other team members said, just pay off the charge and in future ride carefully or to fight a law suit or whatever by spending more money.

 

I did resist their request initially to dismount my bike cause I don't think the have the authority to do so. But I would definitely comply if any traffic police gave me that order. I did come clean to the TP regarding this point.

 

However, I have come to a complete halt and there is definitely no way I can injure them with my bike not in motion.

 

What I am confused now is that they claimed and according to the charge sheet is that the damaged is cause with a moving vehicle, that I did not keep a proper lookout and cause the accident. This is total bullshit.

 

I didnt want to just pay off the fine as it would mean that I did what they claim, which is not true. If this is how the case conclude, others might suffer the same fate as me just because the campus security thinks that they can get away with their untruthful claims.

[kogeban]

I plan on speaking to the IO again to try and understand anything more about the case if they are willing to share more and submitting my appeal through my insurance company's lawyers.

 

I came to this forum to share this unfortunate incident with fellow sgbikers. What I regretted is not having a camera with me at the point of time to take down the whole incident.

[kogeban]

Weird that the security suffered injuries as there doesnt seems to be any physical contact. It might be hard but try to check the area for CCTV and request for footage. Or could it be that you are withholding some information instead of the truth? There is no smoke without a fire though...

 

There is physical contact between them and my bike as they are using their bodies to block my bike.

 

I am not withholding any information. If I know that I am in the wrong and clearly collided with the campus security, it would be stupid of me to come here and post about this incident.

 

The point is, if i clearly collided with the campus security as they claimed, why did they release me in the first place and tell me that they will report me to the TP for not wearing a helmet only?

 

IF they are being truthful about the damage, they would have tell me right in the face at the point of that incident. I would have called in the Traffic Police at the point of time. The fact is that they didn't. Didn't even contact me after to tell me that I have injured one of their staff and they are going to report that accident (even though they have my contact number). They wanted to get the upper hand and make me look bad.

[blackness]

Highly suspicious. from your story, it seems like you're framed by the security personnel. maybe he already has an existing fracture and decided to make use of the opportunity to get you in trouble. did he claim against your insurance company? Maybe you ask your insurance company for advice. They might have dealt with similar false injury claims

 

read this: http://www.healthxchange.com.sg/News/Pages/False-injury-claims.aspx

[buttbutt8]

TS., sometimes it takes a formal appeal or complaint before things will move. If not, urs is just one of the many cases received daily. There are higher profile cases waiting to be entertained.

[FB666Y]

We have a society that’s very docile. We are often unwilling to act when we get trampled upon.

If what you say is true and your only fault is riding without a helmet, you should act -

Get down to the main NUS office and file a complaint against ALL the security personnel.

Also go to the NUS Security Office and file a complaint. Tell them you have filed with the main NUS office.

If it was me I would also file a police report regarding your case.

 

The TP only has what they receive from NUS security. Right now you don’t have a voice.

Only when you start making your own noise will TP/NUS be forced to listen.

 

Someone says your gf cant be an independent witness – that’s not true.

You should bring her along when you file your reports – that adds a lot of weight.

 

By not filing your own report and swallowing the points and fine you are in essence saying you’re guilty.