Myths abt RIDER behaviour for DRIVERS who happen to come in

mechwira · February 10, 2003

i remember months ago, i was watching TV3 m'sia, they had this road safety campaign going on, and they were targeting drivers' treatment towards riders. they came up with figures such as 2/3 of fatal bike accidents were caused by cars. their messages were always bout drivers watching out for bikes.

mebbe our tp shd do something like that. intensive too. and research oso bout our fatal bike accidents if it is similar to wat our neighbors have. they made 2b tests more difficult, reduced passing rate, put in more stuff in lessons such as video and donno wat else. shd they not do the same for class 3?

doing all this to 2b is fine and well, anything to make the roads safer. but they do so much to 2b. even road safety posters on buses and taxis feature a smiling rider with refecltive vests. are they sending out the msg that riders are the only reckless ones? has all this not contributed to the general perception that bikes are the ones always at fault?

i am all for making would-be riders more safety conscious. but for goodness sake do the same to would-be drivers. and start a campaign targeting drivers treatment of riders. at least let them know.

Greg · February 10, 2003

Hey mechwira,

What I'm saying is that to be able to criticize either, you have to put yourself in the position (in your case) of the driver. I don't really drive very fast but I'm always on the lookout for other road users. I think I'm more conscious of other road users as I also ride.

It is not that most or all drivers are reckless, nor is it the case with most or all riders. As a rider, I am more alert than when I drive and as a driver, I try and be as alert as possible. True to say that in a car, you are generally not as alert.

It is not true that drivers are 'bo chap'. Well, some are but it will eventually catch up with them. That's my point. You are generalising too much.

You might be one of the exception to the rule and may be quite safe but I can totally see you being tail gated when you travel at the speed limit and not at the traffic speed. This is another point I brought up in another thread.

I've also seen the Malaysian ride safely campaign. It is true that they not all accidents are the rider's fault. But I have heard riders 'boasting' of how they 'played' with a car by going in front of the car and slowing down thereby forcing the car behind to slow down. This is very dangerous, but riders still do it..... why? ego maybe? fun maybe?

Whatever it is, just ride safe.

h_LoNg · February 10, 2003

on another occasion, early morn peak, again at PIE this time just before where KJE merge, if u all know that stretch, it is 2 lane. left one obviously all the trucks occupy and its crawling at only 30kmh, so i take the left lane. in front of me was pickup, followed by long row of vehicles moving at 50 kmh. again, i leave 1 car space, but bloody merz behind me not happy think i slow, tailgate me until i cannot see his headlight from my wing mirror. it was obvious that he was trying to intimidate me to get out of his way.

If i were u, I will purposly keep brakin( provided ur speed is not fast, ard 30) & force him to brake too... If he can do tat in time n hits u frm behind, tats too bad, juz claim insurance frm that b_sta_rd!!!!

Plus, I will also clutch in and blow, let him hav some taste of 2T

February 10, 2003

Probably we should ask some Foreigners to be a Neutral party to judge how s'porean drivers or riders fair.

normally i c 'ang mohs' drive either really slow but CONSIDERATE as they WILL move away to to let u pass no matter ur machine is car or bike, how much ur road tax, THEY TREAT EVERY1 AS A ROAD USER! or they will b really fast mayb influenced by s'pore poor driving etiquette(Kiasu!: wa... 1 2 cut in2 my lane? cannot lose FACE dun Xia Sway faster speed up.... die die dun let u overtake)!

But luckily not ALL r like that! there r still some Courteous road users around! mayb we should take other foreign countries road users as reference as the Driving Centre instructor ALWAYS say: S'pore have the BEST Roads conditions n Traffic Facilities, but the USERS..... 1/2 the M'sia accidents r contributed by US S'poreans?.....

i think its no use 4 us to argue who right or wrong! every1 make mistakes, just hope it's not a FATAL 1!

we can only just xchange pointers 4 drivers/riders to take xtra caution so as to create a harmonious traffic enviroment for all the road users like we used to oathe when we 1st got our license!

February 10, 2003

well one should think on both sides of the story mah...

yes there r good n bad drivers n riderz on the road.

ultimately got to c your luck.

when ur time is up, it's up...

just like in final destination 2 .....cannot siam so many times one...lol

Greg · February 10, 2003

@h_long, that's really bad advice...... dude, which planet are you on???

Play with a car??? When you are on a bike??? It is not about money after you've been hit..... you can always buy a new bike but you can't buy a new head..... Regardless of what speed you are travelling, if another moving vehicle hits you, be it a car or another bike, you are pretty much screwed...... why are you giving advice like that???

TourXcross, I don't know how much you have travelled but have you seen the traffic in NYC or in London or in LA???? The drivers there are just as bad, and in some cases worse..... I think it boils down to living a city environment. Everybody's in a rush..... stress, the heat etc... all play a part.... If you travel to the outskirts of the city, eg, Bath or Bristol (in the UK) or Columbia (NY) you will find the road users there really considerate...... That's what I found anyway.......

mechwira · February 10, 2003

What I'm saying is that to be able to criticize either, you have to put yourself in the position (in your case) of the driver.

True to say that in a car, you are generally not as alert.

It is not true that drivers are 'bo chap'. Well, some are but it will eventually catch up with them. That's my point. You are generalising too much.

pardon me, but you're still not getting my point. i am not pointing my fingers at all drivers and saying they're all out to get me. i mentioned earlier that yes not all drivers are like that, but there are enough of them around to make such incidents as the ones i mentioned moer than just isolated incidents.

i am pointing my finger at drivers who blatantly take advantage of me becoz i'm a bike without due care for my safety. and i keep on replying not coz i want to just blast these drivers to let out steam, but my last few replies was coz i disagree with the statement that i cant blame them coz they dun understand.

if a guy never get hit on the head by a flower pot before, and becoz of that he throw a flower pot from his 7th story house without checking see anybody below coz he just dun care, and it really hit a guy on the head and killed him, will u say the guilty guy is free of blame coz he dun understand? wat is it he dun understand: that his act was dangerous, or how it feels like to get hit on the head by a flower pot?

same wif these black sheep drivers. i am not tokking bout simple stuff like blind spot where driver genuinely never see me. i am tokking bout blatant intimidation tactics like tailgating and worse still, actually overtaking me within the lane and force me out of the way. are u telling me if i drive i will understand why they do that and so i will say ok never mind?

to a certain extent, i can accept that a person can be absolved from blame due to ignorance. but not from not caring, not even if not caring coz never been in the victim's shoes, like in the flower pot example i gave. wat they dun understand is not the fact that they pose a danger to riders. they understand that too well, and perhaps becoz of that they will intimidate riders, knowing riders really have no choice but to give way. wat they dun understand is how its like to be on the receiving end, and this area of understanding is not within valid grounds to be absolved from blame.

But I have heard riders 'boasting' of how they 'played' with a car by going in front of the car and slowing down thereby forcing the car behind to slow down. This is very dangerous, but riders still do it..... why? ego maybe? fun maybe?

like i mentioned earlier, i will readily join u to say these ppl are reckless and irresponsible and watever. but it wont make a mark if u use it to defend drivers. "some of your ppl do this to us, so its ok if some of our ppl do it to you".

to make it clear once again: i am not generalising and pointing my fingers at all drivers. it is just those who blatantly endanger me. and wat i'm really trying to bring across is i cannot accept that i cant blame them coz they never been in my shoes.

h_LoNg · February 10, 2003

Sorri... Juz too fed up by those f_cKiNg drivers

heehee

"xiao peng you bu yao xue hor, su su si you lian guo de"!!!!

February 10, 2003

basically it works both way... rider have to know the characteristics of a rider and a driver have to know the characteristics of a rider..

if only both or rather all road users pay more attention to each other, and dont think that just because they pay road tax, ERP, season parking n blah blah blah.. they owe the whole f***kin road, and drive/ride as if like nobody's business or without due care and consideration to other road users that happened to be also paying the same road taxes, ERP, season parking n blah blah blah.. as YOU.

so it all boils down to the individual road users' mentality, maturity and how civil minded they are.. but very unfortunately, this is not possible because most road users are just equally blinded by all these nonsense... driver cursing at riders, riders cursing at drivers, both rider/drivers cursing at taxi drivers, lorry/bus/van drivers cursing at car/taxi drivers and riders.. everybody are cursing at whoever or whatever that happened to cross their path, cut into their lane, braking suddenly.. the list goes on, the argument never end.

so in the end.. who's fault is it? the human that is operating the vehicle, yes YOU!....

i believe everyone here are just as equally guilty as the next road user beside you. do your own self reflection and try to be more considered to other road users.. although they might not do the same to you.. but hey at least you have done your part... and if, only if everyone here does the same.. wouldn't the road be a much safer place to drive/ride on, with lesser hatred amongs each other.. but sigh.. its still a big IF.

we are all humans after all...

mamu27 · February 25, 2003

hmm. very good posts here..

neway, im a rider and part time driver too. hehe

well jz some things i notice n would like 2share..

these are some things riders like 2do.

1)stop at junction. occupy the ctr lane. light turn green and u accelerate slowly. gosh, traffic's being held up..

a)occupy the lane marking. again light turn green n accelerate like a turtle.

some drivers will get irritated n overtake closely.

SOLUTION. stop at left most side lane wenever possible. at least if u're slow, u're in the correct lane. if driver still persist on cutting u, jz ride abit faster lah next time. it all depends on situations. gotta be rational.

2) ride 'safe'. keep a safe distance from vehicle in front.

Be it in major, minor roads or even Expressways.

if u're such a safe rider, wat d heck are u doin in the 1st lane?

however, if u do tat on 2nd/3rd lanes, etc. but still encounters such assholes. jz give way to them lah. no point trying to act gangster.

3)bikers like to travel in pairs or even worse. groups.

WTF? if u do tat in the middle of night or as long as u dun make anybody's life difficult. nobody gives a hoot.

but imagine, a bunch of bikers taking up 2-3lanes at the same time.

realli giving bikers a bad image.

tis is especially true on weekends, at town area.

I do tink like a biker wen i drive n vice versa. i hate it wen cars tailgate n i hate it wen bikers hog the 1st lane. so dun worry, im not one-sided.

February 26, 2003

basically it works both way... rider have to know the characteristics of a rider and a driver have to know the characteristics of a rider..

if only both or rather all road users pay more attention to each other, and dont think that just because they pay road tax, ERP, season parking n blah blah blah.. they owe the whole f***kin road, and drive/ride as if like nobody's business or without due care and consideration to other road users that happened to be also paying the same road taxes, ERP, season parking n blah blah blah.. as YOU.

so it all boils down to the individual road users' mentality, maturity and how civil minded they are.. but very unfortunately, this is not possible because most road users are just equally blinded by all these nonsense... driver cursing at riders, riders cursing at drivers, both rider/drivers cursing at taxi drivers, lorry/bus/van drivers cursing at car/taxi drivers and riders.. everybody are cursing at whoever or whatever that happened to cross their path, cut into their lane, braking suddenly.. the list goes on, the argument never end.

so in the end.. who's fault is it? the human that is operating the vehicle, yes YOU!....

i believe everyone here are just as equally guilty as the next road user beside you. do your own self reflection and try to be more considered to other road users.. although they might not do the same to you.. but hey at least you have done your part... and if, only if everyone here does the same.. wouldn't the road be a much safer place to drive/ride on, with lesser hatred amongs each other.. but sigh.. its still a big IF.

we are all humans after all...

February 26, 2003

February 26, 2003

i think riders should learn defensive riding!

nowsaday i always occupy a lane when in front of the traffic light!

not becos my bike big i pay more road tax or what!

becos:

once i was at a traffic junction approaching red light about stop, the right lane was occupied by a van n i was on the center lane.

checking the mirrors, i saw a car approaching behind me in the lane!

being considerate, i shifted abit to the dotted line markings.

he didn't stop fully as it was on a up slope, in fact he slowly inch bit by bit

juz when the traffic light turn green,

i half clutch n when about 2 move off, surprise to find that my left foot is struck under his right front wheel slightly.....

my immediate reaction was2 pull out MY FOOT!

luckily manage2 pull out as only slightly strucked,

but my ankle bone hit right in2 my foot rest.....

by then i was slow in moving off

that impatience driver overtake n STARED at me probably thinking wtf i doing not knowing what he had done..... really man, MY FOOT.....

no point endlessly arguing.....!

juz take note of the drivers/riders precious pointers 2 look out4 so as 2 SAVE urself from those who make U as the VICTIM for their MISTAKES!

dun think that u dun make mistakes n u r SAFE!

BoBoKik i agree with u :

it's the human who is operating the vehicle who is at fault! which is always the case just like

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong!

February 26, 2003

hachi · February 13, 2005

Most of the time when i ride they just cut into my lane without any signals or warning assuming bikes have to give way.

I guess many encounter this and how many riders that dont drive are in the vehicles blind spots without knowing it?

ANd lorries and buses have large area of blind spots as well. Do most of the riders know that?

Sometimes u need communtication as well common sense on the rd. In fact signalling are not always needed as a driver if u see no one behind. But there migth be a bikers in the blind spot. This is the phenominal I have seen on the rd.

Bike rides in the blind spot of vehicles, that is very dangerous as drivers cannot see them.

Remember ride safety and tried not to confront them on the rd even they did something wrong and riders always loss out in this kind of situations. The rd is harder than u think........

hachi · February 13, 2005

Most of the time when i ride they just cut into my lane without any signals or warning assuming bikes have to give way.

I guess many encounter this and how many riders that dont drive are in the vehicles blind spots without knowing it?

ANd lorries and buses have large area of blind spots as well. Do most of the riders know that?

Sometimes u need communtication as well common sense on the rd. In fact signalling are not always needed as a driver if u see no one behind. But there migth be a bikers in the blind spot. This is the phenominal I have seen on the rd.

Bike rides in the blind spot of vehicles, that is very dangerous as drivers cannot see them.

Remember ride safety and tried not to confront them on the rd even they did something wrong and riders always loss out in this kind of situations. The rd is harder than u think........

Shay · February 13, 2005

Hello,

I know some of you here abhors (hot word) 'squeezing' or riding the dotted-lines, die die must follow safety distance in a lane....BUT!

sometimes that is not possible lah. Any of you stay woodlands and have to use the bloody BKE every morning at 715am? 1st there is the HORDE of m'sian cupkias i have to contend with.

Then, further down BKE, MAndai traffic oso come in...Now got Big Lorries, Buses and vans....all blowing enormous clouds of black fumes. I think 90% of the city's air pollution comes from BKE every morning!!

Want me to stay in lane, guai guai dun squeeze and follow ttraffic flow ah? The cup kias squeezing pass will ask me "jia ba liao beh?"

So sometimes i cant help it. I have to SQUEEZE every morning. I dun wana stay behind and smell the black fumes of the diesel driven behemoths, i dun like the heat from Buses' exhaust that for some reason always aim swee swee into my face, my bike will overheat given the pace if i stay in lane...and most importantly, i will arrive at work 20 mins late.

No aircon, no music, no comfy chair to sit back while commuting on BKE....no thanks, I'll squeeze!

Oso...some other roads may oso have this problem during peak hours.... CTE, Orchard rd, BT TIMAH RD...tell the riders there to ride in thier own lanes....they will oso tell you "Jia Ba liao!"

Sonic · February 14, 2005

read a few letters in the straits times forum lately that drivers are paying more attention looking out for traffic police speed cameras on the roads.

more attention for speed cameras = less for other road situations = even lesser lookout for bikes.

so be more careful out there!

DM · February 14, 2005

guys guys we are truly pathetic, no drivers in the 4 wheel forum is going to pay a visit to our side and incidentally chance upon this particular thread. post it in their forum and

spread the word. anyways, i have experienced all the road bullying brought upon by drivers as mentioned in this thread but what to do? all we can at best is whine and ######

but at the end of the day, we are still less significant road users in the eyes of inconsiderate drivers. i personally feel that the sg gov is not crazy over enforcing safety issues for drivers and i base this on the fact that they pay more road tax. imagine the public outcry of the drivers when tp starts pissing them off with all the 'pls-stop-bullying-bike-riders' safety campaign. the less rational ones will start making their claim of how much their road tax fuels sg's economy and how this is simply an inconvenience to them.

yes we weave in traffic (just for the record, i weave in still traffic only) and we are all guilty of breaching road safety when we are in a rush/ stuck in jams. the point is, nothing is going to change anything and as morbid as that might sound, it is the sad truth.

marzocchi · February 14, 2005

noticed this topic was started and stopped 2yrs ago?

DM · February 14, 2005

who's the "genius" that keeps reviving old threads? he needs a boot up his butt

sfowner · February 15, 2005

There are good drivers and there are bad drivers. There are good riders and there are bad riders.

Keynes · February 16, 2005

Originally posted by TourXcrosS@Feb 26 2003, 11:16 PM
i think riders should learn defensive riding!

nowsaday i always occupy a lane when in front of the traffic light!
not becos my bike big i pay more road tax or what!
becos:
once i was at a traffic junction approaching red light about stop, the right lane was occupied by a van n i was on the center lane.
checking the mirrors, i saw a car approaching behind me in the lane!
being considerate, i shifted abit to the dotted line markings.
he didn't stop fully as it was on a up slope, in fact he slowly inch bit by bit
juz when the traffic light turn green,
i half clutch n when about 2 move off, surprise to find that my left foot is struck under his right front wheel slightly.....
my immediate reaction was2 pull out MY FOOT!
luckily manage2 pull out as only slightly strucked,
but my ankle bone hit right in2 my foot rest.....
by then i was slow in moving off

that impatience driver overtake n STARED at me probably thinking wtf i doing not knowing what he had done..... really man, MY FOOT.....

no point endlessly arguing.....!
juz take note of the drivers/riders precious pointers 2 look out4 so as 2 SAVE urself from those who make U as the VICTIM for their MISTAKES!

dun think that u dun make mistakes n u r SAFE!

BoBoKik i agree with u :
it's the human who is operating the vehicle who is at fault! which is always the case just like
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong!

Hi

Thanks for posting ur experience and I think this shd serve as a wake up call for all of us who squeeze.

Don't take things for granted, don't always assume when u squeeze at red lights, when moving off, cars WILL give way to u to move off first! THE ONLY RIGHT OF WAY IS THE ONE GIVEN TO U BY THE OTHER ROAD USER.

Although most bikes have better pick-up than most cars, SOME CARS have better pick up than SOME BIKES, and when both move off togehter, guess who will suffer? In the eyes of LAW, bikers WON'T win CARS if both move off togehter from the same lane, because we jump queue and try to SHARE the lane w them, and if our front wheel is at the same point as their front bumper, BOTH are at faults if there is a side swipe, but we lose much more in terms of pain and injuries.

Before moving off, always check if anyone beats red light at the cross lane, don't just squeeze ur throttle to get ahead of the car beside u, and pls confirm that the car beside u gives way to u, if it does not, u MUST give way to him! No point chiong w him to c who go faster, u may be surprised, some mod Honda Civic can accelerate faster than u.

sfowner · February 16, 2005

Not trying to stereotype here... but I find the following cars tend to be more aggressive on the road...

many red cars

some black cars

many taxis

some new big merc's

some slightly older medium size merc's

many bmw 3 series'

some bmw 5 series'

some bmw 7 series'

some mazda 6's

some wrx's

some evo's

many lexus suv's

some nissan sunny's

some corollas with sports kits

Sounds like the whole car population? Just my observations, no statistical proof, and please don't take too seriously...

Anyway, these are the cars I tend to pay special attention to or stay away from... seriously.

Deltaboi · March 9, 2007

once a biker...

always a dare-devil...

hee!

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