Electric powered vehicles

[peter-k]

To the kind attention of the members, the following message is send to the LTA, the AA, the Ministry of National Development, and Onemotoring.

 

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

I was recently traveling in Australia. Besides of the vastness and beauty of Australia's nature, I was impressed by the vibrant developments and optimistic future outlook which the Australian nation is taking.

 

An example, there was a conference calling for a meeting of the 1000 smartest heads out of science, arts, economics, politics from all over the country, to brainstorm and develop ideas about how to bring the country even further.

 

One of the most meaningful goals the Australians have been setting themselves is, to be internationally recognized as a leading "Green Nation" by 2020.

 

I can witness, that these are not empty words only. Efforts can be seen already everywhere, from simple 'kid campaigns' for keeping things clean, to extensive projects aiming to protect the environment and preserve natural habitats.

 

In clean Fremantle I met a policeman on a scooter. I was wondering about it, since the vehicle was so quiet. So I asked him what it is. He responded friendly and obviously with pride, that this is a Vectrix electrical scooter. It has no emissions, and it can be charged on any ordinary electrical plug. According to him it costs only about A$ 50 on energy to operate - per year!

 

At this moment I could not help asking myself about how much Singapore might be missing. With regards to private vehicles the trend seems to move straight into the opposite direction.

 

Every month thousands more of mostly oversize cars are flooding new onto the roads. Cars like SUV's, which do actually not belong into urban environments at all. Or van style cars with 7 seats capacity, but mostly having occupied only one or two of them. Heavy, big vehicles, some of them reminding even on small buses or trucks, consuming a lot of petrol, polluting the environment unnecessary, and taking up precious space everywhere, which we all actually need. In the end these redundant vehicles also costs peoples money, resources which likely would be better spend on more productive things, or things that are healthier for the country and it's economy.

 

Please feel free informing yourself under the following links:

- Vectrix electric scooter http://www.vectrix.com

- Informative Vectrix video

- Chinese manufacturer Luyuan http://en.luyuan.cn/index.asp

 

I would like to import one of the electrical scooters into Singapore. I would like to find out, if you could support my plan, and what would be the process to get an electrical scooter approved for public roads in Singapore.

 

To my person, I am a German living in Singapore since 13 years. I am 49 years old, and I have my motorcycle license sine 1978.

 

Thank you very much for your response!

 

Best regards

Peter Kroll

[Demon]

To the kind attention of the members, the following message is send to the LTA, the AA, the Ministry of National Development, and Onemotoring.

 

 

 

Dear Sirs

 

I was recently traveling in Australia. Besides of the vastness and beauty of Australia's nature, I was impressed by the vibrant developments and optimistic future outlook which the Australian nation is taking.

 

An example, there was a conference calling for a meeting of the 1000 smartest heads out of science, arts, economics, politics from all over the country, to brainstorm and develop ideas about how to bring the country even further.

 

One of the most meaningful goals the Australians have been setting themselves is, to be internationally recognized as a leading "Green Nation" by 2020.

 

I can witness, that these are not empty words only. Efforts can be seen already everywhere, from simple 'kid campaigns' for keeping things clean, to extensive projects aiming to protect the environment and preserve natural habitats.

 

In clean Fremantle I met a policeman on a scooter. I was wondering about it, since the vehicle was so quiet. So I asked him what it is. He responded friendly and obviously with pride, that this is a Vectrix electrical scooter. It has no emissions, and it can be charged on any ordinary electrical plug. According to him it costs only about A$ 50 on energy to operate - per year!

 

At this moment I could not help asking myself about how much Singapore might be missing. With regards to private vehicles the trend seems to move straight into the opposite direction.

 

Every month thousands more of mostly oversize cars are flooding new onto the roads. Cars like SUV's, which do actually not belong into urban environments at all. Or van style cars with 7 seats capacity, but mostly having occupied only one or two of them. Heavy, big vehicles, some of them reminding even on small buses or trucks, consuming a lot of petrol, polluting the environment unnecessary, and taking up precious space everywhere, which we all actually need. In the end these redundant vehicles also costs peoples money, resources which likely would be better spend on more productive things, or things that are healthier for the country and it's economy.

 

Please feel free informing yourself under the following links:

- Vectrix electric scooter http://www.vectrix.com

- Informative Vectrix video

- Chinese manufacturer Luyuan http://en.luyuan.cn/index.asp

 

I would like to import one of the electrical scooters into Singapore. I would like to find out, if you could support my plan, and what would be the process to get an electrical scooter approved for public roads in Singapore.

 

To my person, I am a German living in Singapore since 13 years. I am 49 years old, and I have my motorcycle license sine 1978.

 

Thank you very much for your response!

 

Best regards

Peter Kroll

 

Thanks for taking the initiative. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/udaloy/Emoticons/applause.gif

 

I'm looking forward to the street legal commuter by Zero Motorcycles.

 

Hope the local approval comes before i get too old to ride.

 

Extreme Dirt bike, Zero-X, by Zero Motorcycles

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/udaloy/zero_X_march_2008___002.jpg

 

 

[kish_garfield]

jus have to wonder how to charge it if you live in a HDB...but nevertheless...I think this initiative is impt to bring us to the next era

[peter-k]

It is not without reason why I wrote in about this. You know what they want to do? They want to permit only electrical vehicles with a certain type of battery. If your battery is empty, you drive to a "petrol kiosk" and they will swap the battery with a recharged one.

 

Of course they would not do that for free, right? In the beginning the fees will be very attractive, but wait 3 years down the road.

 

What's the use of such a system? Money has to be pulled out from your pocket. It can not be that you would be bypassing those pockets that are stuffed full with money already, by moving your scooter 1 year long for $ 50 only, alrighty right?

 

I am in Singapore since 13 years. If that comes as planned, I will be moving to Australia.

[peter-k]

As of yet I haven't received any response, not even that my message was received.

 

For short distance commuting, what is wrong with an electrical scooter like this:

 

http://en.luyuan.cn/product/images/PB806Ad.jpg

[spaiduhz]

woah. that thing is electric? it looks like a full fledged scooter, not like any of the currently existing electric powered bicycles.

 

i do believe that piaggio has a hybrid scooter, powered by lithium-ion batteries stuffed under the seat. i wonder if anyone ever purchased on of them. its not a full electric powered scooter, mind you, but i thought that was a good start.

[Silent Hunter]

As of yet I haven't received any response, not even that my message was received.

 

For short distance commuting, what is wrong with an electrical scooter like this:

 

http://en.luyuan.cn/product/images/PB806Ad.jpg

 

woah. that thing is electric? it looks like a full fledged scooter, not like any of the currently existing electric powered bicycles.

 

i do believe that piaggio has a hybrid scooter, powered by lithium-ion batteries stuffed under the seat. i wonder if anyone ever purchased on of them. its not a full electric powered scooter, mind you, but i thought that was a good start.

 

 

This is exactly what they are using in CHINA.

 

the electric Scooter looks exactly like a normal scooter, but is very quiet and no emissons at all.

 

Only thing is that, their law does not allow the rider of the electrical scooter to carry a pillion, as it is classified as a electrical Bicycle.

[spaiduhz]

this may prove to be the ultimate dispatch bike for macdonalds. get your food, send out the order, come back, and charge it using macdonalds power outlets. that way, docket incentive will become an incentive again instead of a way for them to pay back petrol allowance.

 

thats if its allowed.

 

electric bicycles in singapore are restricted to 30kph if i am not wrong. or was it 20? i forget.

[peter-k]

Yo guys, I am not talking about electric bicycles. I want a real scooter here, but electrically powered. There are several manufacturers in China, some in the US and some in the EU. Look at the Vectrix link above. As for me, even though the Vectrix power seems nice, but it doesn't even have to be as big.

 

Now the barrel crude oil costs 140 US$, by end of June 150, by end of this year 200. That would be double than the end of last year. Not hard to guess where the fuel prices will head to.

 

I saw the Vectrix in Australia, its fantastic. Sounds a bit like a jet engine, but quiet, and no stinking fumes. Therefore it does not only go about own savings, think as well about the benefit for a small country like Singapore.

[spaiduhz]

hello.

 

any updates so far?

[peter-k]

Nothing. If I don't get a response in another week, I'll write in to the Prime Minister. He said he is there for everyone, right?

[lioncat]

hmmm ... have you tried calling the LTA @ 1800-2765751 ? Its the hotline shown on onemotoring.com

 

It will take them sometime to come back. Probably flying all over the place looking for the "right" person to answer you.

 

I have emailed to LTA twice. The first time was for non-PSB helmets. They emailed me back within a week and directed me to the TP. Guess what the TP sent me? An entire chapter extracted from their regulations. Full stop.

 

The 2nd time was for vehicle inspection. They called me back (2 weeks later) and chatted with me over the phone (that fella really can chat) but that again led to nothing as "its the requirement".

 

Service excellence. They tried but they couldnt help.

 

[Silent Hunter]

Yo guys, I am not talking about electric bicycles. I want a real scooter here, but electrically powered. There are several manufacturers in China, some in the US and some in the EU. Look at the Vectrix link above. As for me, even though the Vectrix power seems nice, but it doesn't even have to be as big.

 

Now the barrel crude oil costs 140 US$, by end of June 150, by end of this year 200. That would be double than the end of last year. Not hard to guess where the fuel prices will head to.

 

I saw the Vectrix in Australia, its fantastic. Sounds a bit like a jet engine, but quiet, and no stinking fumes. Therefore it does not only go about own savings, think as well about the benefit for a small country like Singapore.

 

 

The Scooter may be classified as an electrical bicycle, but it can go max of 50km/hr.

Pretty ok for normal city riding, plus it can go on the bicycle lane parrallel to the main roads. (In China)

 

First time I saw them electrical scooters, I was thinking why they allow Scooters on bicycle lanes.

And if I didn't remember wrongly, they didn't have number plates either! So I was thinking WTF?!?!?

Until I found out that they were electrical scooters!

They are pretty fast too. Man! You will need a racer bike to match it's speed.

[Demon]

For short distance commuting, what is wrong with an electrical scooter like this:

 

http://en.luyuan.cn/product/images/PB806Ad.jpg

 

The Scooter may be classified as an electrical bicycle, but it can go max of 50km/hr.

 

Peter-k's electric scooter will never meet the LTA's definition of a motorised bicycle. According to LTA's technical requirements :

 

 

Extracted from LTA : http://app.lta.gov.sg/corp_press_content.asp?start=1095

 

In addition to this condition on maximum power output, LTA will introduce the following additional requirements, to take into account the safety and environmental concerns associated with the use of motorised bicycles:

 

1) The construction of a motorised bicycle must be similar to that of a conventional pedal bicycle;

 

2) A motorised bicycle can only be powered by an electric source (e.g. battery), and not be petrol-driven;

 

3) The motor power of the motorised bicycle can only cut in when the rider starts to pedal; and

 

4) The motor power of the motorised bicycle must be cut off when it reaches 25km/h or when the rider stops pedaling.

 

Motorised bicycles, with a power output greater than 200 watts, are required to meet the technical and registration requirements of motorcycles, if they are to be used on public roads.

 

I'm not putting the guys at LTA down. They want things to remain status quo, and no one wants to rock the boat by introducing changes.

 

From my experience, if you want things to happen, you can't be a Singaporean, as they will simply cut you short, and you need be persistence, and have the means to escalate the situation. In short, we need a maverick.

 

And Peter-K seems to fit the bill, and he is only hope for the moment.

 

[kish_garfield]

So true Demon

 

From my experience, if you want things to happen, you can't be a Singaporean,(very sad right... ...) as they will simply cut you short, and you need be persistence, and have the means to escalate the situation. In short, we need a maverick.

[lioncat]

I have browse thru the vetrix and luyuan's specifications.

 

Vetrix is an electric-motor cycle.

 

Luyuan is an electric bicycle, in motorcycle guise.

 

I was based in china for 2 years and the workers at my workplace all own a Luyuan-type bike. Its basically the same as a electric bicycle except that its looks alot "up-market" by slipping the scooter fairing over it.

 

If i am not wrong, many provinces in China have banned the use of petrol-driven motorcycles outright. Its due to the high rate of criminal activities relating to motorised snatch thefts, unauthorised moto-cabs and also partly due to the booming economy.

 

In some cities, i witnessed the authorities labelling the motorcycle as an artifact of the working class, not in tune with the economy and can be said the Poor man's transport (where Poor man literally implies a non-4wheeler owner). In those cities, all existing motorcycle licenses cannot be renewed upon expiry (unless ahem, u know somebody).

 

The bicycle is however, the Everyman's transport. Note the play of words here.

 

Faced with the new regulations, manufacturers have to find an avenue to dispose of the existing moto fairings and so you have it, best of both worlds.

 

Picture this, we are talking big money here. An electric bicycle can cost between 1500 to 5000 Chinese Yuan, up to a year's salary for the average inland worker and yet they sell like hot cakes.

 

The only shortcoming is the range. Around and abt 40km, depending on the battery quality. Most, if not all, comes with attachable pedals so you can burn some calories when the battery runs out.

[spaiduhz]

Peter-k's electric scooter will never meet the LTA's definition of a motorised bicycle. According to LTA's technical requirements :

 

 

Extracted from LTA : http://app.lta.gov.sg/corp_press_content.asp?start=1095

 

In addition to this condition on maximum power output, LTA will introduce the following additional requirements, to take into account the safety and environmental concerns associated with the use of motorised bicycles:

 

1) The construction of a motorised bicycle must be similar to that of a conventional pedal bicycle;

 

2) A motorised bicycle can only be powered by an electric source (e.g. battery), and not be petrol-driven;

 

3) The motor power of the motorised bicycle can only cut in when the rider starts to pedal; and

 

4) The motor power of the motorised bicycle must be cut off when it reaches 25km/h or when the rider stops pedaling.

 

Motorised bicycles, with a power output greater than 200 watts, are required to meet the technical and registration requirements of motorcycles, if they are to be used on public roads.

 

I'm not putting the guys at LTA down. They want things to remain status quo, and no one wants to rock the boat by introducing changes.

 

From my experience, if you want things to happen, you can't be a Singaporean, as they will simply cut you short, and you need be persistence, and have the means to escalate the situation. In short, we need a maverick.

 

And Peter-K seems to fit the bill, and he is only hope for the moment.

 

 

 

no, not motorised bicycle. the issue on hand is to allow electric motor-vehicles on the road.

 

for one, it will cause one big headache for the authorities since you cant classify electric motorcycles in its displacement rating (which i thought was bullshit), with 400 classes. Electric vehicles don't have engine displacement.

 

If electric vehicles are going to be allowed on our roads, there must be a change in regulations, which are very outdated, in my honest opinion. likelihood of that happening? not very high, since the electric scooter is just too clean, and you cant gain too much revenue from it, from the government stand point. no emissions, so cant summon that. doesn't consume petrol, so cant indirectly gain revenue from there either.

 

if this were to be a success, we will have to keep poking the government for a few years, and then some.

[peter-k]

no, not motorised bicycle. the issue on hand is to allow electric motor-vehicles on the road.

 

So right you are. I've no interest in a walking aid. A real commuter motorcycle / motorcycle class scooter with electrical engine. Here is another one with 3000 W engine:

 

E-Fun Zappino, with upgrade 40Ah Battery about 80 -km range, not that great but good enough for commuting.

 

http://www.zapworld.com/files/zapino/zapino-electric-scooter-zap.jpg

 

E-Fun http://www.efun-ev.com/pro-d.html

[peter-k]

Still no movement from the 'official side'.

 

London installed already plugs on public car parks for people to recharge the scooters. In Sidney they plan to install the same.

 

Singapore? The gas conversion that people buy at the moment will be going the same road as the diesel. Once many use it, price will go up like mad. Diesel costs in EU the same as petrol. Gas price is slowly creeping up. Don't be fooled. It does not make too much sense, unless one drives very high mileage every year, such as taxi.

 

Wasn't it government's goal to avoid western countries mistakes?

[lioncat]

hahaha, in view of the coe n erp bashing ... the policy seems to go in the direction of "if the "mistakes" brings in tons of money, make more!"

 

[peter-k]

Government bought 40 Honda Varadero 125, AFAIK. That's a 125 cc bike for almost the price of a 600 cc bike. How is that?

 

Or alternatively for a not much more they could have gotten emission free Vectrix scooters. I am sure they would get a very good price, same like the Aussie government.