[Technical] Queries for TA200

[pavanpatidar]

Half a turn is a lot. Adjust in steps Of 1/24 of a turn. Anyway before you tune the carb, recommend should change filter and spark plug first . Or else later retune. Also, tune only when engine warm up from cold like 5-10 min, not after long run.

 

If problem don't go away after change filter spark plug and slight adjustment, then could be other problem liao. Air suction v/v spoilt also will backfir but not a cause of lean a/f

 

Thanks sawfly for the reply.. Would turning so little make any difference? i turned by 1/4th turn(90 deg) and still feel it is lean so doubt turning so little will do any good?

 

Yeah i changed the air filter recently(about 15-20 days back). It didn't make much difference(as in it was running hot and fuel consumption at about 43-44km before as well). Hence was trying to richen the A/F mixture. Spark plug was also changed a month or so back only.

 

Also not sure how hot is concerning.. I mean all bikes naturally will get somewhat hot after riding for about 20 kms but not sure when to consider that the bike is getting more hotter than expected. And the fact that fuel consumption is low(43km/litre), i think there is something wrong as I read others mostly get in the range of 35 - 39km/litre. Last time when air filter was changed told the same thing(that my bike seems getting hot) to ah chong but he also say it is natural and no issue..

 

Could the engine oil be a problem as well? Last time one other mechanic seems to have put in more than 1.5 litres of EO and not sure which one he added. I already ride the bike for about 1200kms since then but still when i do a dipstick test, there still seems to be a lot of EO. Should i get it changed anyway to a better EO? will that help with bike hot problem?

 

Also could someone confirm if my way of measuring the fuel consumption correct? The way i check it is, note down the kms(say A) when bike goes to reserve, then i pump in x litres of petrol, then note down kms(say B) when it goes to reserve next. so B-A divide by x gives the no. of kms per litre of fuel.

[pavanpatidar]

My Phantom was getting around 40km+++ km per litre many years back. The spark plug was white back then.

The spark plug is now light brown.

 

To solve your problem...

 

After turning the Air:Fuel ration screw clockwise, the bike runs richer.

 

When it runs richer, the RPM goes slower.

 

To counter that, turn the idling screw 1/4 round to make it run faster. Turn more if not enough to prevent the engine from stalling.

 

It should be fine after that.

 

You might be thinking increase fuel ratio, RPM goes down, temperature cooler, then if I up the idling to make the RPM faster won't it be back to square one?

 

No. Because the fuel mixture is richer, there will be some unburnt fuel in the exhaust and this extra unburnt petrol will carry the heat away.

 

Thanks for the reply..

Just to confirm the idling screw is the one near carb on the right side of bike? Is it the round one that can turn by hand(i guess so) or the smaller one (on the carb) similar to the air fuel mixture screw(which is on the left side of bike and on the carb)..

So do you recommend turning the the air fuel mixture more( i already turn it by 1/4th clockwise from original lean setting) and then play with the idling screw so that engine doesn't go off?

[goofy]

thanks for your help. Will try to set it. It was actually set by the shop then I messed it up.

[sawfly]

pls see my replies in bold below:

Thanks sawfly for the reply.. Would turning so little make any difference? i turned by 1/4th turn(90 deg) and still feel it is lean so doubt turning so little will do any good?

 

yes turning small steps matters. that magic point is elusive for me. if u are not convinced use a tachometer - u will be able to see the change in rpm 5 seconds after each adjustment. this kind of thing better to tune qualitatively and not by feeling for it. patience also required - i take a few days to conclude a tuning adjustment every time and i ride only twice daily.

 

also, even you dont want to make small steps, use a 1/8 turn at least.

 

alternatively still, quote silent hunter, turn the a/f mixture all the way in, then turn out 6 turns. it's something like a default setting for the carb but i cant verify. remb to note down your original setting (how many turns for the screw to turn in and sit in)

 

Yeah i changed the air filter recently(about 15-20 days back). It didn't make much difference(as in it was running hot and fuel consumption at about 43-44km before as well). Hence was trying to richen the A/F mixture. Spark plug was also changed a month or so back only.

 

it wouldnt make a difference as a new filter will lean out the a/f. u were running lean anyway. old filter choked will result in richer a/f.

 

Also not sure how hot is concerning.. I mean all bikes naturally will get somewhat hot after riding for about 20 kms but not sure when to consider that the bike is getting more hotter than expected. And the fact that fuel consumption is low(43km/litre), i think there is something wrong as I read others mostly get in the range of 35 - 39km/litre. Last time when air filter was changed told the same thing(that my bike seems getting hot) to ah chong but he also say it is natural and no issue..

 

qualitatively with an IR thermometer, around 100 degc. on a lean day it goes up to 120 deg at least for me. someone mentioned somewhere if its too hot to even touch the cylinder there, definitely u are running lean - again this is by feels.

 

Could the engine oil be a problem as well? Last time one other mechanic seems to have put in more than 1.5 litres of EO and not sure which one he added. I already ride the bike for about 1200kms since then but still when i do a dipstick test, there still seems to be a lot of EO. Should i get it changed anyway to a better EO? will that help with bike hot problem?

 

if your eo is enough it shouldnt be a problem. even if your oil pump is not circulating oil, causing it to run hotter, a/f will still be richer at higher temp. anyway 1.5l is too much - will cause excessive crank case pressure, sluggish performance and cause gaskets to blow.

 

anyway if its consistently lean despite so much adjustment, then there might be an air leak in the system. but you would want to decide that its a more complex issue after everything else is ruled out.

 

Also could someone confirm if my way of measuring the fuel consumption correct? The way i check it is, note down the kms(say A) when bike goes to reserve, then i pump in x litres of petrol, then note down kms(say B) when it goes to reserve next. so B-A divide by x gives the no. of kms per litre of fuel.

 

i nvr calculate with the reserve in consideration - too comlex. how i calc is (today's top up odometer value) - (last top up odometer value) / (amount i top up today).

i always top up to full tank so that the volume i pumped in today to top up will be the amount of petrol used with the number of km lapsed.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply..

Just to confirm the idling screw is the one near carb on the right side of bike? Is it the round one that can turn by hand(i guess so) yes.

 

or the smaller one (on the carb) similar to the air fuel mixture screw(which is on the left side of bike and on the carb)..

a/f screw is a straight blade adjustable screw, beside the VE marking.

So do you recommend turning the the air fuel mixture more( i already turn it by 1/4th clockwise from original lean setting) and then play with the idling screw so that engine doesn't go off?

 

 

what cross my mind is before you adjust your carb, go flush out ur carb bowl. see my post in the DIY thread on how. maybe carb bowl got rubbish inside - lower fuel levels = leaner. just a thought.

[sawfly]

thanks for your help. Will try to set it. It was actually set by the shop then I messed it up.

 

welcome! good luck! =D

[pavanpatidar]

Thanks a lot sawfly for the responses. will check and try this out..

[oahihz]

 

you might want to check the chain tension/ free play ,the roller, the chain guides and the sprockets first

sometimes sprockets bent out of shape but not totally worn yet not obvious also. best is to bring to shop for a quick look through.

another way to check is to push the bike along a path with engine off. easier to trace the chain sound.

 

Thank you very much for your advise!

[sawfly]

Thanks a lot sawfly for the responses. will check and try this out..

 

Thank you very much for your advise!

Welcome! Good luck

[Defiantx]

Hello everyone.

 

I have been riding phantom for about 4 years but still not that experienced. I have been going to planet for quite a while until one fine sunday, i need to tighten my chain and i chance upon this malay uncle named ali. he moved from ubi to geylang and now at sinming drive. He seemed good so i let him handle my bike until one fine day my bike got this clicking sound and i let him see. he dismantle my top engine and say need about 1.2k to do porting. i lan lan cannot say no cuz he alr dismantle until jialat jialat. Just to check a few things that he told me.

 

1. is it too ex to do porting for top engine for 1.2k?

 

2. He removed my choke and say its better. true?

 

3. He told me TA150 rear suspension (white one) is better than TA200 one (Metal, sliver one) true?

 

4. He told me spark plug no need everytime change one.so i haven change mine for about 9 months alr. true?

 

Hope to get answers from you guys! thanks alot man.

[sawfly]

hi defiantx, please see my comments in bold below..

 

Hello everyone.

 

I have been riding phantom for about 4 years but still not that experienced. I have been going to planet for quite a while until one fine sunday, i need to tighten my chain and i chance upon this malay uncle named ali. he moved from ubi to geylang and now at sinming drive. He seemed good so i let him handle my bike until one fine day my bike got this clicking sound and i let him see. he dismantle my top engine and say need about 1.2k to do porting. i lan lan cannot say no cuz he alr dismantle until jialat jialat. Just to check a few things that he told me.

 

1. is it too ex to do porting for top engine for 1.2k?

can ask what does porting really means? or rather, what did he want to do when he to do porting?

assuming he's doing an overhaul of the cylinder top, around 400 elsewhere..

2. He removed my choke and say its better. true?

you will still need choke on some cold days when the fuel cannot vaporise easily.

i dont unds the rationale of removing the choke. it's like one uncle removing my filter and asking me to run without filter because my bike was running poor.

 

3. He told me TA150 rear suspension (white one) is better than TA200 one (Metal, sliver one) true?

that one i cant advise. that will need a ta150 rider to comment. wait, you are riding ta200 or ta150?

 

4. He told me spark plug no need everytime change one.so i haven change mine for about 9 months alr. true?

that one actually kind of true.. i change at 10000 km mark unless it's stained. that's for me though.

 

Hope to get answers from you guys! thanks alot man.

[Defiantx]

hi defiantx, please see my comments in bold below..

 

Hey sawfly thanks for the reply!

 

1. I think the porting thing is same as overhaul. Should be cylinder head overhaul. Its something to do with the part where the piston go in. Is that the cylinder? The uncle said nnormally the hole is about 25, dunno mm or what. But mine was 125 already. Meaning mine alr overhaul too much alr because max should be 100 if not bike too hot and no power. So he help me find a second hand one which is 25. Then he help "shave/overhaul" the cyliner to match my piston size. This i to my understand ah. If i not wrong he also changed my timing chain. Thatd what i understand from him.

 

2. As for choke wise he said choke useless and will affect the fuel flow or something so might as well remove. He didnt ask me la. He remove after that overhaul. But my choke also kinda shitty alr. Pull alr cannot hold at fully open position and cannot close back fully also. Plus durinng super cold days my bike can start after cranking the most twice so ya lo. Dunno good not.

 

3. I riding ta200. But he say ta150 suspension stronger

 

4. Thanks for the the spark plug part!

 

Sorry ask, such long reply.

[sawfly]

no prob! see my further replies below:

 

Hey sawfly thanks for the reply!

 

1. I think the porting thing is same as overhaul. Should be cylinder head overhaul. Its something to do with the part where the piston go in. Is that the cylinder? The uncle said nnormally the hole is about 25, dunno mm or what. But mine was 125 already. Meaning mine alr overhaul too much alr because max should be 100 if not bike too hot and no power. So he help me find a second hand one which is 25. Then he help "shave/overhaul" the cyliner to match my piston size. This i to my understand ah. If i not wrong he also changed my timing chain. Thatd what i understand from him.

 

im not too sure which numbers you are referring to, but the shops do take in account the next oversize they have to deal with everytime u overhaul. timing chain not so expensive actually, more of the labour cost. 1.2k is abit expensive leh... u can also check out the prices at unique motor price list for reference..

 

2. As for choke wise he said choke useless and will affect the fuel flow or something so might as well remove. He didnt ask me la. He remove after that overhaul. But my choke also kinda shitty alr. Pull alr cannot hold at fully open position and cannot close back fully also. Plus durinng super cold days my bike can start after cranking the most twice so ya lo. Dunno good not.

if he remove liao then too late liao loh. but i'll leave the choke in case really do have the need.. my need came in only when I was using vpower on a extra cold day but this is nt going to be common in sg weather it seems for ta200.. better to leave bike stock unless u don't want to sell anymore.. or next owner will be like how come so different from other bikes..

 

3. I riding ta200. But he say ta150 suspension stronger

 

4. Thanks for the the spark plug part!

 

Sorry ask, such long reply.

[Defiantx]

no prob! see my further replies below:

 

Thanks man! I also think damn ex. But i sian la. Thought he good. My bike got clicking sound when riding so let him see. Then he straight open up my engine. Sibei sian. Want to run also cannot. So lan lan let him tok. But he changed the cylinder head for me la. Is it ex to change cylinder head? The bike now quite smooth though

[sawfly]

Thanks man! I also think damn ex. But i sian la. Thought he good. My bike got clicking sound when riding so let him see. Then he straight open up my engine. Sibei sian. Want to run also cannot. So lan lan let him tok. But he changed the cylinder head for me la. Is it ex to change cylinder head? The bike now quite smooth though

 

honestly I dunno for the cylinder.. never change before.. maybe next time you ask for a break down item by item receipt.. and don't let him open unless u want to... zzzz

[Defiantx]

Thanks alot sawfly!

[sawfly]

Yr welcome!

[Silent Hunter]

Wah Lau, kena chop, Porting shouldn't be anything more than $800 including replacement parts.

It's more in the range of $600.

 

Porting is done to either big bore the engine to a bigger cc or to replace the piston with a slightly bigger piston after and engine seized and scratched the walls of the sleeve in the cylinder. And since the scratches have to be file or machine lathed away it will result in a bigger hole, hence the piston will be up to size 100.

 

Most mechs don't recommend anything bigger than 100 because of safety. The sleeves will be filed too thin and may crack.

[Defiantx]

Wah Lau, kena chop, Porting shouldn't be anything more than $800 including replacement parts.

It's more in the range of $600.

 

Porting is done to either big bore the engine to a bigger cc or to replace the piston with a slightly bigger piston after and engine seized and scratched the walls of the sleeve in the cylinder. And since the scratches have to be file or machine lathed away it will result in a bigger hole, hence the piston will be up to size 100.

 

Most mechs don't recommend anything bigger than 100 because of safety. The sleeves will be filed too thin and may crack.

 

WAH DETAILED EXPLANATION! Lan Lan lo. learned my lesson the hard way.

[matthias76]

WAH DETAILED EXPLANATION! Lan Lan lo. learned my lesson the hard way.

 

You pay already? If not play gangster with him and tell him to remove. Then tow it elsewhere to do. I heard this from a mechanic friend. He say most shops will then slash their price in order to accomodate. The really ******** one will spend time dismantling the installed parts and ask owner to tow away.

[Defiantx]

You pay already? If not play gangster with him and tell him to remove. Then tow it elsewhere to do. I heard this from a mechanic friend. He say most shops will then slash their price in order to accomodate. The really ******** one will spend time dismantling the installed parts and ask owner to tow away.

 

paid alr. he dismantle everything alr. later i ask him out back then he anyhow to my bike more jialat. so lan lan lo. most prob not going back his side alr. change oil $25 but no spark plug.

[matthias76]

Where is this shop? Help the rest by telling us where this cursed mechanic operates from.

 

Sent from my GT-I9506 using Tapatalk

[sawfly]

better for him to pm.. later ppl have him up for defamation.. sensitive

[matthias76]

better for him to pm.. later ppl have him up for defamation.. sensitive

 

Bro, defamation is putting up information which is untrue. Stating a fact (price paid for a service) is safe from civil litigation.

[sawfly]

if the person has a way to defend himself and if his reputation is affected through public statements, he can flip prata and turn black into white and still claim tort of defamation. nowadays got alot this kind of bird ppl.

[sawfly]

of cos if defiantx directly post up receipt from the shop, the fella will have nth to say LOL