[Technical] Queries for TA200

pavanpatidar · November 26, 2014

Hi Guys,

Thanks a lot for all the replies.

So since my last update regarding my bike stopping a bit and consuming all the engine oil in about 1K, I topped up a bit of engine oil(didnâ€™t have the spanner to open the bolt underneath to drain out and change oil myself) and took the bike straight to Planet. Uncle Ah Chong cleaned the carburetor and replaced engine oil, spark plug etc. After this it seems a bit better but the problems seem still there. Although I asked uncle repeatedly but he donâ€™t see any problems. I donâ€™t know Chinese so not sure if I could explain the problem clearly to uncle. So still feel that something is stopping the bike to run smoothly. It doesnâ€™t turn off completely even at traffic lights when it is idling but when in speed (even at about 70km/h) it seems to stop a little(something like when it is about to go in reserve fuel). So feel a bit (although very less compared to what it was before carburetor servicing) of push back or jerk back when speeding. I donâ€™t know what the problem is or how to explain this to Ah Chong uncle.

Any fellow forumer got any ideas? Could the fact that all oil got consumed in 1K km is pointing towards some problem underneath with piston rings? Uncle said no problem with engine or piston but I donâ€™t think he opened the piston so i doubt he can confidently say that all is fine underneath.

Also any idea when should one go for overhaul. I mean my bike is more than 10yr old and has run for 85K km so does it mean the overhaul is required soon?

Although the bike has been well maintained and the engine produces very good sound (I mean no cranky or weird sounds) even if you open the throttle a lot but any idea if overhaul is a must after certain point?

sawfly said:
15w for 125w? Looks ideal for touring. How much is it anyway?

Actually it's raining quite badly recently, if his tank kena water infiltrate then it will end up in the carb bowl still from the tank.. Like hyder mentioned better to drain carb bowl again, and alsp the whole tank as well and use new fuel like u said. Anyway while pavan is there he could observe the carb bowl discharge also. Got water or dirt will have be obvious.

sawfly · November 26, 2014

How fast u usually ride?faster u go Eo dry faster. Also how long to wait for warm up before u ride off? If i nvr warm up enough Eo also will burn fast. Also what oil u typically use? Synthetic consume faster.

pavanpatidar · November 26, 2014

I mostly ride 80 km/h. sometimes only go around 90 but my bike don't tend to go anymore than that... except if in downslope then might go until abt 100..

I don't wait for warm up. just turn on and go.. noted for future. will give it a few secs to warm up.

Last time one other mechanic had put in full syn oil thats what got consumed so fast. The one before that lasted a long time.

sawfly said:
How fast u usually ride?faster u go Eo dry faster. Also how long to wait for warm up before u ride off? If i nvr warm up enough Eo also will burn fast. Also what oil u typically use? Synthetic consume faster.

ricebandit · November 26, 2014

pull out the spark plugs and take a picture.

ricebandit · November 26, 2014

if the plug is black and oily, it may be failing piston rings

ricebandit · November 26, 2014

oh now that I think about it, I once had the carb idle mixture screw fall out of my old carb (or it was removed, not sure) and I had to keep revving it to keep it from dying. got a new screw and it fixed the problem. have a look at that too

sawfly · November 27, 2014

pavanpatidar said:
I mostly ride 80 km/h. sometimes only go around 90 but my bike don't tend to go anymore than that... except if in downslope then might go until abt 100..
I don't wait for warm up. just turn on and go.. noted for future. will give it a few secs to warm up.
Last time one other mechanic had put in full syn oil thats what got consumed so fast. The one before that lasted a long time.

perhaps you should try let it warm up first for 2 min before going first. (my unsure explanation is an oil seal isnt formed properly at the piston rings before you start revving the engine, hence blow by.)

how he determine whether the rings are worn is to check whether there is white smoke when engine is revved. (white smoke = eo burnt). if you are not convinced, you can pull your plugs and confirm. eo loss may be from other sealing issues so check if your crankcase is leaking oil in the first place - this is not easily detectable. if u really want to go ahead with the overhaul and have the spare cash you could do so but it would be best to check engine history with prev owner. (do note u will still lose eo after overhaul after engine is completely run in).

the professional way is to do a cylinder compression test to confirm whether rings are shot.

as for the oil, since bike is old and if overhaul before, the tolerances could be wider. try using semi synth or mineral oil first.

for the inconsistent throttle issue.. u could always ask for a carb tune.. tell planet u accidentally turn by mistake and now its awkward.. thats what i did.. lol

palawan · November 27, 2014

pavanpatidar said:
..... Uncle Ah Chong cleaned the carburetor and replaced engine oil, spark plug etc. After this it seems a bit better but the problems seem still there. .... So still feel that something is stopping the bike to run smoothly. It doesnâ€™t turn off completely even at traffic lights when it is idling but when in speed (even at about 70km/h) it seems to stop a little(something like when it is about to go in reserve fuel). So feel a bit (although very less compared to what it was before carburetor servicing) of push back or jerk back when speeding. I donâ€™t know what the problem is or how to explain this to Ah Chong uncle.
...

As long as you did not flush your fuel tank, the problem WILL come back.

Why hesitate? It doesn't cost anything if you can diy.

Now, my 0Â¢,(no more 2Â¢).

As you have already changed the spark plug, you just need to do the following:

1. Flush your fuel tank,

2. Empty your petcock/petcock bowl,

3. Service your carburettor [again, unfortunately... ] &

4. Top-up fresh fuel

All the above are simple and can be diy to save cost.

The result will be instantaneous.

Oh, and btw, you're welcome...

PS: The above solution has nothing to do with your disappearing engine oil...

Edited November 27, 2014 by palawan
top-up fresh fuel

sawfly · November 27, 2014

palawan said:
As long as you did not flush your fuel tank, the problem WILL come back.

Why hesitate? It doesn't cost anything if you can diy.

Now, my 0Â¢,(no more 2Â¢).
As you have already changed the spark plug, you just need to do the following:

1. Flush your fuel tank.
2. Empty your petcock/petcock bowl &
3. Service your carburettor [again, unfortunately... ]

All the above are simple and can be diy to save cost.

The result will be instantaneous.

Oh, and btw, you're welcome...

PS: The above solution has nothing to do with your disappearing engine oil...

Agree. eo loss has nth to do with your fuel circuit and throttle behavior. u should check if water is in your tank or fuel circuit as per advised.

palawan · November 27, 2014

sawfly said:
Agree. eo loss has nth to do with your fuel circuit and throttle behavior. u should check if water is in your tank or fuel circuit as per advised.

The description of his experiences from 2 months ago leads to only 1 problem, fuel contamination.

I don't think it's "IF" anymore, it's almost certain.

sawfly · November 27, 2014

indeed. we would have to wait for him to feedback as i think he was probably preoccupied with the eo loss issue.

pavanpatidar · November 28, 2014

Thanks a lot Guys.. Really appreciate your advise..

I was under the impression that when Ah chong uncle did carb cleaning, he would have cleared all petrol as well but now i think he may not have.. I was in reserve that time and bike still had some fuel to go home..

I will do a complete clear of petrol and top up fresh fuel and see how it looks..

Just to inform and check again, the bike has not been overhauled before. The sound of engine on revving is quiet good so doesn't look like any problem there. So there is no hard and fast rule that the bike needs overhaul after certain kms(say above 100K)?

sawfly · November 28, 2014

hearing by sound is subject to individual, don't count on it unless your a professional lol. there's no hard and fast rule on overhauls.

pavanpatidar · December 2, 2014

hi Guys, On the weekend, did some checks for the bike..

- No white smoke on revving the engine..

- Drive a little and checked the spark plug, No signs of oil and nothing odd there. Looks dark grey/brownish in color.

- checked air filter. Looks clean. The yellow filter part no dust/oil etc. however noticed a bit of oil sprayed(not too much) at the empty block behind air filter.. Not sure if this is sign of any issues?

- I emptied the petrol tank and topped up fresh fuel. Not sure my procedure to empty tank is correct though? I opened the carb screw which starts dropping the petrol from underneath the bike. Kept it open till all petrol run out. However not sure if it would clear everything from carb/petcock bowl etc. (as mentioned by palawan). Also carburetor i don't think i can service myself.. The problem is still there it seems.. Don't feel it at slow speed but at speeds of about 70km/h feel it. Would my procedure have cleared all the fuel/contamination(if any). or should i rather take it to mechanic and ask them to completely clear the fuel/service carb again and see how it goes? however would they have little bit of fuel later on for me to ride the bike until petrol pump? or do i need to carry a litre of so in a bottle(does petrol pump people give the fuel in bottle?)

sawfly · December 2, 2014

Normal to have oil in the filter box. That's actually where yr oil went and some in the blowby. Anyway clean filter means translucent To light. Change if it's yellow alrd.

Yes u can drain almost the whole tank from there but petcock must be in reserve.

They most likely won't have fuel. U will have to buy yr own container at petrol pump.

Anyway can you check your throttle response through all opening? 1/8 to wide open throttle

dhomosapien · December 2, 2014

Hey guys, I am gonna diy some spotlights. Problem is, I don't know where the ignition wires are. Can anyone help me out? I need to connect a set (+ve and -ve) to the battery and also the ignition. Thanks!

matthias76 · December 2, 2014

I just complete a project for fog lights...

You can use the circuit diagram posted in the DIY thread. The power should be tapped from the battery and relayed using a Borsh Relay. LAB sells it for $8 per piece. The ignition power switch can be either spliced from the brown wire from the main accessory socket, or you can connect it to the high beam (blue) wire in the headlight socket.

Edited December 2, 2014 by matthias76

acit22 · December 3, 2014

Hi matthias67...nice fog light set up... I would have fixed blue n red light instead to scar off all the cars...hehe.

Btw, where did u get that crashbar from?

matthias76 · December 3, 2014

acit22 said:
Hi matthias67...nice fog light set up... I would have fixed blue n red light instead to scar off all the cars...hehe.
Btw, where did u get that crashbar from?

Aunty Shop Ubi. $120 or $100...can't remember the price liao.

dhomosapien · December 3, 2014

matthias76 said:
I just complete a project for fog lights...

[ATTACH=CONFIG]315772[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]315773[/ATTACH]

You can use the circuit diagram posted in the DIY thread. The power should be tapped from the battery and relayed using a Borsh Relay. LAB sells it for $8 per piece. The ignition power switch can be either spliced from the brown wire from the main accessory socket, or you can connect it to the high beam (blue) wire in the headlight socket.

Thanks for your help!

palawan · December 3, 2014

pavanpatidar said:
... I was in reserve that time and bike still had some fuel to go home..
I will do a complete clear of petrol and top up fresh fuel and see how it looks..

Is this the same reserve you had when you encounter the problem travelling @kpe abt 2 wks ago? You did'nt travel since then?

pavanpatidar said:
... I emptied the petrol tank and topped up fresh fuel. Not sure my procedure to empty tank is correct though? I opened the carb screw which starts dropping the petrol from underneath the bike. Kept it open till all petrol run out. However not sure if it would clear everything from carb/petcock bowl etc. (as mentioned by palawan). Also carburetor i don't think i can service myself.. The problem is still there it seems.. Don't feel it at slow speed but at speeds of about 70km/h feel it. Would my procedure have cleared all the fuel/contamination(if any). or should i rather take it to mechanic and ask them to completely clear the fuel/service carb again and see how it goes? however would they have little bit of fuel later on for me to ride the bike until petrol pump? or do i need to carry a litre of so in a bottle(does petrol pump people give the fuel in bottle?)

Your fuel is contaminated & you let all of it pass thru the carburettor? Bad decision...

Your method of draining is not complete anyway.

Let me make it easier for discussion, let's name the contaminants as 'water' & 'others'.

Now, let's just concentrate on 'water' contaminant. 'Water' has higher density & non soluble in petrol.

It will sink to the bottom of petrol.

The 3 main areas where 'water' can be trapped are:

the fuel tank,
the petcock bowl,
the carburettor.

Your method may clear the 'water' from the carb, but the 'water' may still be trapped in the other 2 areas.

Fuel tank
Fuel will pass thru the fuel filter (in-tank) and at "reserve" setting, and the lowest inlet to the fuel filter is slightly above the bottom of the fuel tank, so you will still have 'water' trapped here. For best result, remove the petcock.
Petcock
The petcock bowl (bottom part of the petcock) is there to trap 'water' and solid residues.
If you did not open up & clear this bowl, it may be full of 'water' and any excess 'water' coming in from the tank will overflow directly into the carb. So, you need to clear the bowl.

And again, service your carb, and top-up fresh fuel.

Eh, you still ask how to buy fresh fuel, then where did you get your fresh fuel in your previous top-up?

Anyway, it seems that diy may not be an option for you, as there are also safety precautions needed when handling flammable materials.

So its better to leave it to the professionals.

It should only involve labour cost. There are gaskets used for the petcock & the petcock bowl, but I think should be able to re-use it, your mechanic didn't change the carb gaskets when he serviced it, right?

And just to confirm, do you have the following problems?

at standstill, free gear, revving till abt 1/3 throttle is smooth, but revving at higher rpm, especially near full throttle, you may experience stuttering.
at standstill, first gear, revving to move off, you may experience like fuel going to reserve, or worse engine die.
at normal speed, on overtaking, you may experience loss power when you try to accelerate, thus bike deceleration

acit22 · December 4, 2014

Morning all...Tough luck I had yesterday...after travelling home from work, I parked my bike. When I returned back to my bike soon after, I noticed oil spill underneath my bike and discovered my bike was leaking from the carburettor fuel line.

When I turned the fuel lever to "OFF" the leaking stopped, but when I turned it back to "ON" the fuel leaked again. What could be the caused of it? The mechanic I sent to said could be due to the carburettor pin. Anyone could advise? Thank you.

sawfly · December 4, 2014

Carb overflow.. Maybe float got problem or stuck... This one need mechanic to help you with the carb.. Check that the overflow drain valve screw is closed..

pavanpatidar · December 4, 2014

yes palawan, the problem i noticed was on tuesday/wednesday and I kept the bike in my office carpark until friday. On friday i took it to planet motors so was still in reserve.

I am not sure exactly where is petcock bowl or how to open it. so i just let all petrol/water(I don't think there is any water though but can't say for sure). the problem before 2 months when my bike stopped due to water was in carb bowl. that one was cleared by another mechanic and after that for 2 months had no problems until that day when bike was going in reserve and i start feeling this problem now..

I drained 90% of petrol at my carpark at home and then drove close to petrol pump(it is very near to my house abt 250meters away) and just before the petrol pump again opened the carb screw until all the petrol drained.. Then i push the bike to petrol pump and topped up..

Yes the mechanic didn't change the carb gaskets.

at standstill, free gear, revving till abt 1/3 throttle is smooth, but revving at higher rpm, especially near full throttle, you may experience stuttering --> somewhat.. when i rev higher it stutter a bit

at standstill, first gear, revving to move off, you may experience like fuel going to reserve, or worse engine die. --> No this doesn't happen

at normal speed, on overtaking, you may experience loss power when you try to accelerate, thus bike deceleration --> yeah this seems more close to the problem i am facing. when overtaking or speeding higher than 70km/h i feel a bit of decelaration.

palawan said:
Is this the same reserve you had when you encounter the problem travelling @kpe abt 2 wks ago? You did'nt travel since then?

Your fuel is contaminated & you let all of it pass thru the carburettor? Bad decision...

Your method of draining is not complete anyway.

Let me make it easier for discussion, let's name the contaminants as 'water' & 'others'.
Now, let's just concentrate on 'water' contaminant. 'Water' has higher density & non soluble in petrol.
It will sink to the bottom of petrol.

The 3 main areas where 'water' can be trapped are:

the fuel tank,

the petcock bowl,

the carburettor.

Your method may clear the 'water' from the carb, but the 'water' may still be trapped in the other 2 areas.

Fuel tank
Fuel will pass thru the fuel filter (in-tank) and at "reserve" setting, and the lowest inlet to the fuel filter is slightly above the bottom of the fuel tank, so you will still have 'water' trapped here. For best result, remove the petcock.

Petcock
The petcock bowl (bottom part of the petcock) is there to trap 'water' and solid residues.
If you did not open up & clear this bowl, it may be full of 'water' and any excess 'water' coming in from the tank will overflow directly into the carb. So, you need to clear the bowl.

And again, service your carb, and top-up fresh fuel.

Eh, you still ask how to buy fresh fuel, then where did you get your fresh fuel in your previous top-up?

Anyway, it seems that diy may not be an option for you, as there are also safety precautions needed when handling flammable materials.
So its better to leave it to the professionals.
It should only involve labour cost. There are gaskets used for the petcock & the petcock bowl, but I think should be able to re-use it, your mechanic didn't change the carb gaskets when he serviced it, right?

And just to confirm, do you have the following problems?

at standstill, free gear, revving till abt 1/3 throttle is smooth, but revving at higher rpm, especially near full throttle, you may experience stuttering.

at standstill, first gear, revving to move off, you may experience like fuel going to reserve, or worse engine die.

at normal speed, on overtaking, you may experience loss power when you try to accelerate, thus bike deceleration

palawan · December 4, 2014

pavanpatidar said:
... the problem i noticed was on tuesday/wednesday and I kept the bike in my office carpark until friday. On friday i took it to planet motors so was still in reserve.

Wow, this incident really shook you up real bad huh?

pavanpatidar said:
I am not sure exactly where is petcock bowl or how to open it

The petcock bowl is part of the petcock, its at the bottom part of the petcock, the dome shape, with a hex shaped protrusion at the base(this also acts as a hex nut). You can use a spanner (10mm) to open this bowl, turning direction as you would tighten or loosen a normal screw.

But before you open it, make sure to set it to "OFF", or you would have fuel gushing out.

pavanpatidar said:
... so i just let all petrol/water(I don't think there is any water though but can't say for sure). the problem before 2 months when my bike stopped due to water was in carb bowl. that one was cleared by another mechanic and after that for 2 months had no problems until that day when bike was going in reserve and i start feeling this problem now..

During this 2 months, have you set the petcock to "RESERVE"?, or its always at "ON", and you topped-up before going into "RESERVE"?

pavanpatidar said:
I drained 90% of petrol at my carpark at home and then drove close to petrol pump(it is very near to my house abt 250meters away) and just before the petrol pump again opened the carb screw until all the petrol drained.. Then i push the bike to petrol pump and topped up..

Ok, understood how you get your fresh fuel then.

To buy fuel from petrol kiosk without a vehicle, or not pumping it into a vehicle, you need to get a metal container, sold at the kiosk (

pavanpatidar said:
at standstill, free gear, revving till abt 1/3 throttle is smooth, but revving at higher rpm, especially near full throttle, you may experience stuttering --> somewhat.. when i rev higher it stutter a bit
at standstill, first gear, revving to move off, you may experience like fuel going to reserve, or worse engine die. --> No this doesn't happen
at normal speed, on overtaking, you may experience loss power when you try to accelerate, thus bike deceleration --> yeah this seems more close to the problem i am facing. when overtaking or speeding higher than 70km/h i feel a bit of decelaration.

Ok, I guess we are going in the right direction...

I think if you're not confident to diy, its better to send it to the workshop, just tell them what you want to do...

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