Lawyer contact for coi agreement.

[reddy]

Does anyone has lawyer contact for making agreement between coi parties?? anyone done it before?

Any rough estimation for the fee?

 

cheers

[AliDavidSum]

The only clear thing is that the seller still owns the bike.

 

The so-called "agreement" letter is not recognised by the law, meaning all summons incurred by the sub-rider (buyer) will be sent to the owner.

 

On the other hand, there is nothing you can do if the seller decides to play punk and take back the bike.

 

NEVER NEVER COI, even from good friends.

 

If you can afford lawyer's fee for COI agreement, it means you can afford the bike without COI in the first place. So don't waste $$$...

 

Also, before you COI, learn costly mistake by others first:

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260526

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272025

 

Don't play play hor...

Edited February 22, 2010 by AliDavidSum

[906rider]

If you can afford lawyer's fee for COI agreement, it means you can afford the bike without COI in the first place. So don't waste $$$...

 

Also, before you COI, learn costly mistake by others first:

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260526

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272025

 

Don't play play hor...

 

What nonsense is this ? When we say lawyer letter , how much you think this letter is gonna cost ? You think the laywer him/herself writes this letter? Its the paralegal who writes this letter , the lawyer just inspects it after the paralegal is done.

 

So my conclusion is , if the bike cost 10k , would the "lawyer letter" cost 10k too ? I dont think so mate.

 

Have you thought about maybe a different circumstances for eg . I would like to help my friend finish off his installments of his bike because he had a non-bike related accident. So i would be HELPING someone in need because he cant generate income to pay for installment. And the said "lawyer letter" is just a prove that i have now taken the responsibility to pay for the bike. And if i dont pay , "my friend" cant take me to court and make a civil sue against me.

 

I think it comes back to the question about if anyone has/ know a lawyer which can provide this service, my answer is that i dont. But i know a couple of bike shops that has their own lawyers can make it for you.

 

Cheers

[rezz_shaz]

[

Have you thought about maybe a different circumstances for eg . I would like to help my friend finish off his installments of his bike because he had a non-bike related accident. So i would be HELPING someone in need because he cant generate income to pay for installment. And the said "lawyer letter" is just a prove that i have now taken the responsibility to pay for the bike. And if i dont pay , "my friend" cant take me to court and make a civil sue against me.

 

I think it comes back to the question about if anyone has/ know a lawyer which can provide this service, my answer is that i dont. But i know a couple of bike shops that has their own lawyers can make it for you.

 

Cheers

 

hmmm....but without the lawyer letter then definitely your friend can't sue u in the first place....so why spend money( cheap or expensive) to make a lawyer letter to avoid a situation where without any lawyer letter would serve ur purpose just fine.....i'm confuse....

 

but ur'e right bout the bike shop lawyers...but ur'e dealings with the lawyer will be independent of the shops themselves, as for price, it defers from lawyer to lawyer.....a few hundres to thousand plus...

[rezz_shaz]

What nonsense is this ? When we say lawyer letter , how much you think this letter is gonna cost ? You think the laywer him/herself writes this letter? Its the paralegal who writes this letter , the lawyer just inspects it after the paralegal is done.

 

So my conclusion is , if the bike cost 10k , would the "lawyer letter" cost 10k too ? I dont think so mate.

 

Have you thought about maybe a different circumstances for eg . I would like to help my friend finish off his installments of his bike because he had a non-bike related accident. So i would be HELPING someone in need because he cant generate income to pay for installment. And the said "lawyer letter" is just a prove that i have now taken the responsibility to pay for the bike. And if i dont pay , "my friend" cant take me to court and make a civil sue against me.

 

I think it comes back to the question about if anyone has/ know a lawyer which can provide this service, my answer is that i dont. But i know a couple of bike shops that has their own lawyers can make it for you.

 

Cheers

 

hmmm....but without the lawyer letter then definitely your friend can't sue u in the first place....so why spend money( cheap or expensive) to make a lawyer letter to avoid a situation where without any lawyer letter would serve ur purpose just fine.....i'm confuse....

 

but ur'e right bout the bike shop lawyers...but ur'e dealings with the lawyer will be independent of the shops themselves, as for price, it defers from lawyer to lawyer.....a few hundres to thousand plus...

[906rider]

Perhaps my explanation wasnt that clear.

 

Lawyer letter is a good way to keep your ass covered.

 

2 simple possible scenarios

 

1 - Bike owner decided to play punk and take back bike . You have lawyer letter stating that you took over the bike thus you can sue him in court. (Advantage COI Guy)

 

2 - COI Guy cant pay installment so decided to just not pay and return the bike. Lawyer letter states that COI Guy is responsible for the payments and if he breaches this agreement , The Owner can sue him in court. (Advantage Owner)

 

There you go , both sides to the Lawyer Letter.

Edited February 23, 2010 by 906rider

[IvikaRazI]

Perhaps my explanation wasnt that clear.

 

Lawyer letter is a good way to keep your ass covered.

 

2 simple possible scenarios

 

1 - Bike owner decided to play punk and take back bike . You have lawyer letter stating that you took over the bike thus you can sue him in court. (Advantage COI Guy)

 

2 - COI Guy cant pay installment so decided to just not pay and return the bike. Lawyer letter states that COI Guy is responsible for the payments and if he breaches this agreement , The Owner can sue him in court. (Advantage Owner)

 

There you go , both sides to the Lawyer Letter.

 

It may work. But I still think the bike shop will only honor one person in any situation. The owner of the bike. If they cannot get the owner, then the guarantor will take the full force.

 

The letter will only work if you decide to civil sue the person. In the meantime, someone still need to pay to shop.

 

Instead of getting an agreement letter, won't it be simpler to refinance the bike + transfer? Would this costs as much as getting a lawyer to draft the agreement?

 

My thoughts...may be wrong...do correct me.

[Demon]

What nonsense is this ? When we say lawyer letter , how much you think this letter is gonna cost ? You think the laywer him/herself writes this letter? Its the paralegal who writes this letter , the lawyer just inspects it after the paralegal is done.

 

That's not a good example. Just like conveyancing, the clerk does all the searches, and prepares the document which is almost standard, but when a lawyer puts his name on it, it becomes a legal document and you pay a small fortune for it.

 

Perhaps my explanation wasnt that clear.

 

Lawyer letter is a good way to keep your ass covered.

 

2 simple possible scenarios

 

1 - Bike owner decided to play punk and take back bike . You have lawyer letter stating that you took over the bike thus you can sue him in court. (Advantage COI Guy)

 

A lawyer letter may be of limited use to the COI Guy because what is most important is who has title to the bike.

 

Try using the lawyer letter to fight a Writ of Seizure should the owner goes bankrupt.

 

From memory, under HP Act, as long as the bike is still under installment, the title of the bike is with the financier irregardless whose name is on the "log card". In this case, the lawyer letter will not be enforceable in court.

 

 

[906rider]

That's not a good example. Just like conveyancing, the clerk does all the searches, and prepares the document which is almost standard, but when a lawyer puts his name on it, it becomes a legal document and you pay a small fortune for it.

 

 

 

A lawyer letter may be of limited use to the COI Guy because what is most important is who has title to the bike.

 

Try using the lawyer letter to fight a Writ of Seizure should the owner goes bankrupt.

 

From memory, under HP Act, as long as the bike is still under installment, the title of the bike is with the financier irregardless whose name is on the "log card". In this case, the lawyer letter will not be enforceable in court.

 

 

 

Then in this case , this thread would be deemed useless and a lawyer letter would be redundant in any case anyway. For years of practice, bikeshop's which uses the same method , got it wrong.

 

cheers

[IvikaRazI]

Then in this case , this thread would be deemed useless and a lawyer letter would be redundant in any case anyway. For years of practice, bikeshop's which uses the same method , got it wrong.

 

cheers

 

I guess if bikeshop is involved, then for course they are more than happy to do so. Admin cost maybe charged means more money for them.

 

If its between 2 parties and not involving the bikeshop, will the bikeshop know of such dealings?

 

Anyway, since on paper states the name(s) tied to the bike, they only have the leads to go after those names and, not a paper agreement that they don't know about.

[AliDavidSum]

What nonsense is this? When we say lawyer letter, how much you think this letter is gonna cost? You think the laywer him/herself writes this letter? Its the paralegal who writes this letter, the lawyer just inspects it after the paralegal is done.

 

So my conclusion is, if the bike cost 10k, would the "lawyer letter" cost 10k too? I dont think so mate.

 

 

This show how ignorant you are towards HP acts & contact law.

 

Likewise, many bikers dare to post in public of their anger on bikeshop XYZ when bikes kanna repo, but know nothing of the HP terms & conditions which they had signed.

 

Have you thought about maybe a different circumstances for eg. I would like to help my friend finish off his installments of his bike because he had a non-bike related accident. So i would be HELPING someone in need because he cant generate income to pay for installment. And the said "lawyer letter" is just a prove that i have now taken the responsibility to pay for the bike. And if i dont pay, "my friend" cant take me to court and make a civil sue against me.

 

From your description of your friend, your friend's injury seems to be serious enough as to not able to ride a bike, and/or he does not have the means to maintain the bike. Thus if you ready wanna help you friend finishes his loan, the fastest way will be 1) get a bike loan under your name 2) and do the ROV ownership transfer. COI is too long lah...

 

This is the strangest part of the story - the buyer worries for seller. After all, it is more often the seller kanna trouble due to summon & loan default. Seller do sabo buyer after getting enough money and "disappear". But how can a person with non-bike accident, rides a bike? Sell bike because no money, and still wanna ride his bike which he is selling???

[906rider]

Whatever dude , matter of fact is that im speaking by experience having work at bike shops for a couple of years thus learning the loop holes.

 

If you choose not to take a lawyer letter into consideration then thats your lost.

 

My first example might be misleading but if you read my 2nd example then you might understand.

[Demon]

Whatever dude , matter of fact is that im speaking by experience having work at bike shops for a couple of years thus learning the loop holes.

 

If you choose not to take a lawyer letter into consideration then thats your lost.

 

For the benefit of this SBF community, can i request if you can post the wordings of a "lawyer letter" or even better if you can attach a pic of a "lawyer letter" from the bike shop since you have worked there for a period of time.

 

We can all have an open discussion on the validity of such practice since it has been going on for years.

 

can i just check how much does the bike shop charge for arranging the lawyer letter ?

 

[AliDavidSum]

since on paper states the name(s) tied to the bike, they only have the leads to go after those names and, not a paper agreement that they don't know about.

 

Try using the lawyer letter to fight a Writ of Seizure should the owner goes bankrupt.

 

From memory, under HP Act, as long as the bike is still under installment, the title of the bike is with the financier irregardless whose name is on the "log card". In this case, the lawyer letter will not be enforceable in court.

 

IvikaRazi & Demon have stated the reasons clearly already, why posting of "Lawyer's letter" is not necessary. There is HP act, but COI far far away lah.

 

After all, bikeshops that do bike loan is doing Hire Purchase. not COI.

 

If seller kanna 161KmH speeding ticket, will TP charge buyer to court because of your lawyer's COI letter?

 

Likewise, if bike kanna repo because of buyer's default payment, will lawyer's COI letter prevent the bike from being tow???

 

Understand the legal process of repo a bike, and it is not hard to see if it is a lost to buy that "lawyer's letter".

 

Lastly, bikers often go for COI because it is the easiler way, and/or wanna bikes that they can't afford. So, calculate finanical status carefully before buying a bike. If in doubt, there are always bus, MRT & taxi.

 

 

Of course, no law in Singapore can stop anyone from doing COI. But if kanna sabo by fellow forumer or good friend, please don't or each other in this forum for whole world to see your or

[DannyCrane]

Whatever dude , matter of fact is that im speaking by experience having work at bike shops for a couple of years thus learning the loop holes.

 

If you choose not to take a lawyer letter into consideration then thats your lost.

 

My first example might be misleading but if you read my 2nd example then you might understand.

 

From your experience, if the buyer (the one who COI) decides to play punk and doesn't pay the installment and the bike shop cannot find him (assume lost or bankrupt) and the bike, will the bike shop ask the seller and his guarantor to pay up even when there is a "black and white lawyer letter" between the seller and the buyer?

 

Assume the shop can find the buyer, can the shop ask the him to pay when there is no binding contact between the shop and the buyer?

 

End of the day, the shop will ask the seller to pay and the seller will ask the buyer to pay. But if the buyer mia or refuses to pay after seller threatens to sue the buyer, seller still suffers even when he has a so called lawyer letter with the buyer.

[906rider]

I agree that it is in the best interest of everyone is to stick to the HP agreement to the T and that's that. I apologize if my earlier example was unclear, i had notice that it didn't make sense after rereading. I have never been to court , being sue or suing someone due to this so i might have been lacking in terms of experience of how does the "lawyer letter" works in court

 

I would also like to add that , finally , to answer to the thread starter's question, that although i do not know the cost of the lawyer letter , i know where you can get hold of one so do PM me if your interested.

 

I also cannot post a copy of the lawyer letter here to enlighten fellow forum-ers due to not having one to begin with.

 

Cheers

[guangwei]

Sorry to bump an old thread as I might by COIing my new class 2 Bike.

 

But just wanna clarify, if what rider906 suggested is of limited use to the COI guy aka, Me the buyer, then there really is no safe way to COI and the only way for the owner to sell the bike is to push bike back to shop for refinance so that the bikeshop can earn a deep lot more?

[swoosh]

ask yourself this question "can you draft an agreement to circumvent the law or a contract ? "