SBF Silverwings Cafe 2008 - JDM/Euro 400/600

[spin37]

hi ! guys just like to share abt the cost o duplicating key. Done it 4 mths ago cos need a spare key 2 go malaysia.

1) blank key = $33.50 (B Siew)

3) cut/duplicate = i think abt $4.00 (i forget) (key shop beside LAB)

2) recode/program = $30.00 (B Siew)

 

thats expensive ! i did mine at Looi's for abt $45 only. Key and and program..

[SW9000]

Hi SW9000,

Where can i get my SW fork oil changed to the setting u r using cos the fromt fork is really soft, not exactly confidence inspiring.

Too all bros here, i just bought a used euro sw400 yesterday n hope to meet some of u in future gatherings, esp. those bros from northeast cos i stay in Sengkang.

 

DC

 

Fork setting... very headache one.

You can do it at FS or Botak. Just tell them you need the fork a bit harder.

I don't go by oil volume liao. I measure the length of air inside the fork (oil height) myself (cos most shop don't do this). Current setting is 7.5cm of air from the top, using Silkolene Pro RSF 10wt (equilavent to most 15wt fork oil). Good for SG travel.

But hor... seems like cannot take bumpy malaysian roads that well. Might make it abit softer by increase up to 8cm in future test test.

[SW9000]

Yeah. Back from wedding convoy duty in Teluk Intan and follow by solo trip to Genting Highland for a good rest.

Nice corners going up and down Genting and no problem for the SW. Was travelling in the clouds for some parts of the road.

 

Didn't gamble though but bought some pokemon disc for the kids.

And yah, many many girls wanting to trade with me. I told them I'm not for sale... hahaha.

 

Took me 5hrs from Genting back to SG, travelling at a comfort pace of 110-120km/h.

 

next trip coming...

[patriots]

Fork setting... very headache one.

You can do it at FS or Botak. Just tell them you need the fork a bit harder.

I don't go by oil volume liao. I measure the length of air inside the fork (oil height) myself (cos most shop don't do this). Current setting is 7.5cm of air from the top, using Silkolene Pro RSF 10wt (equilavent to most 15wt fork oil). Good for SG travel.

But hor... seems like cannot take bumpy malaysian roads that well. Might make it abit softer by increase up to 8cm in future test test.

 

True..

 

Did it on my X9 before, with a harder setting.

 

Once bike when through a pot hole, it basically "hop" forward with my hand losing grip on the handle.

 

From that time on, no fork adjustment for me on my SW, will stick to original setting.

[patriots]

what phone is that?

i put my mobile phone on the right hand side compartment.

wanted to mount on the bike but afraid that it would drop.

my phone GPS can clock me at 152km/h.

 

Nokia 6210 navigator...

 

So you keep your right hand side compartment "open" all the time during ride

[adriel]

hmmmm good to see a few bros here have tried with the front forks... was told by the previous owner anodise57 that the front was rebuilt... thought it was abit hard for SG roads... hoping to try some other bros ride here... to get a feel.....

 

overall.. still loving my ride.... the storage is amazing....!!!!

[Trance Energy]

Fork setting... very headache one.

You can do it at FS or Botak. Just tell them you need the fork a bit harder.

I don't go by oil volume liao. I measure the length of air inside the fork (oil height) myself (cos most shop don't do this). Current setting is 7.5cm of air from the top, using Silkolene Pro RSF 10wt (equilavent to most 15wt fork oil). Good for SG travel.

But hor... seems like cannot take bumpy malaysian roads that well. Might make it abit softer by increase up to 8cm in future test test.

 

Thks SW9000. Will pay Botak a visit to do the fork stiffening.

 

DC

[anodise57]

Thks SW9000. Will pay Botak a visit to do the fork stiffening.

 

DC

 

 

 

 

wooo... asking Botak to help u make it HARD... ehhehhe

[scoobydoo]

thats expensive ! i did mine at Looi's for abt $45 only. Key and and program..

i did mine at looi's too, total cost $39 ($35 for key n programming, $4 for cutting at mr mint)

 

hi ! guys just like to share abt the cost o duplicating key. Done it 4 mths ago cos need a spare key 2 go malaysia.

1) blank key = $33.50 (B Siew)

3) cut/duplicate = i think abt $4.00 (i forget) (key shop beside LAB)

2) recode/program = $30.00 (B Siew)

total = $33.5 + $4 + $30 = $67.5 ... kenna carrot liow

fyi, many shops (including looi's) charge $20 for programming

[Simple001]

U go to distributor, sure kana carrot one mah.... keekeekee

[scoobydoo]

Nokia 6210 navigator...

 

So you keep your right hand side compartment "open" all the time during ride

strongly suggest you fix a lanyard to your phone and have it secured to bike's handlebar or somewhere.

at least the phone will be dangling when it gets "ejected" from the holder due to vibration and not gone with the wind

 

also suggest you find out about how the N6120's route 66 navigation system works... if you forget to turn off the A-GPS, you'll be paying for the data packets for gps signals instead of free via microwave

 

 

helmetBOX! has seen how i tie my GPS holder to the IU (using strong shoe laces) and also a lanyard fitted to the PDA... double protection

[bigcow]

HISS will blink only once when key is turn to start the bike.

 

It will not blink when it is armed.

 

u can make it blink de leh... its written in your user manual.

[patriots]

u can make it blink de leh... its written in your user manual.

 

No need la..

 

Blink more drain battery, existing setting is ok for me..

 

I only read the manual when necessary

[MonoWorld]

i m torn between T-Max and Silverwing 400cc.

which one is easier to maintain?

handling wise?

[Sensible]

Yeah. Back from wedding convoy duty in Teluk Intan and follow by solo trip to Genting Highland for a good rest.

Nice corners going up and down Genting and no problem for the SW. Was travelling in the clouds for some parts of the road.

 

Didn't gamble though but bought some pokemon disc for the kids.

And yah, many many girls wanting to trade with me. I told them I'm not for sale... hahaha.

 

Took me 5hrs from Genting back to SG, travelling at a comfort pace of 110-120km/h.

 

next trip coming...

 

When's your next trip?

[scoobydoo]

u can make it blink de leh... its written in your user manual.

i used to make it blink... but now too lazy liow

[anodise57]

i m torn between T-Max and Silverwing 400cc.

which one is easier to maintain?

handling wise?

 

Sports scooter vs touring scooter.... wats the diff man ?

 

U wanna chiongster scoot... go get T-max,

relax comfort with bigger compartment. .then Silverwing.

 

Wanna see the real thing. arrange some outing... check out the bikes 1st b4 committing your thoughts..... .that should be the way...

 

Walk the process......^_^

[scoobydoo]

i m torn between T-Max and Silverwing 400cc.

which one is easier to maintain?

handling wise?

official specs:

http://www.hlcorp.com.sg/motorcycles/products_specification.asp?id=1&cat=2

http://www.vibrantwave.com.sg/boonsiew/admin/product/upload/FJS400%20Silverwing.pdf

this is probably the best post I've read on "Silverwing Vs. T-Max"

those in green are my comments

 

Friday, June 20, 2003

 

Scooter Article : Yamaha T-Max vs Honda SilverWing

 

This was published in Asian Auto quite a while back - very long article, only for motoheads!

 

Intro

 

Imagine a Suzuki VS125 that can leave a Satria GTi for dead at the traffic lights. Or a Vespa that can cruise easily on the fast lane and is comfortable enough for that trip to Haadyai. What about a Pasola that can keep up with the superbikes up the windy bits at Bukit Tinggi.

 

Welcome to scooter heaven. Finally, you don't have to be called Ronnie, have slicked back Brylcreamed hair, wear drain pipe trousers and a jacket with "Mod Rules" scrawled on the back to look respectable on a scooter. The days of big bikers poking fun at scooters are over.

 

Motorcycle Sales Centre ("MSC") in PJ (03-79563472) was to lend us two of the biggest scooters in the world, the Yamaha T-Max and the Honda SilverWing, but got a bit delayed, so come actual test day, the T-Max had gone of to his wife's second sister's cousin's twice removed house in Batang Berjuntai. Or something like that. So we got Capt Nik who got his T-Max at MSC sometime last year to come and stand in instead. Many many thanks to both.

 

 

Styling

 

Honda decided to play safe on the Wing, and it looks much like your normal modern scoot, only bigger and a lot longer. Ours was in, what else, silver, and bereft of any go faster stripes and decals, looks decidely plain Jane.

 

On the other hand, if only the Transformers would stop getting into scraps every Sunday morning and instead made love, not war, Megatron would soon be the proud father of Scooteron, and it would look exactly like the T-Max. You could just about imagine those bug-eyed headlamps and fake frame mouldings morphing into a bazooka laden banzai robot. Stylistically, the Max has a leg up with a beautifully sculptured rear swing arm and hidden monoshock making for a much tidier rear end.

 

http://www.bikez.com/pictures/yamaha/2006/22583_0_1_2_tmax%20-a_Image%20credits%20-%20Yamaha.jpg

http://www.bikez.com/pictures/honda/2008/27733_0_1_2_silverwing%20400_Image%20credits%20-%20Honda.jpg

the new T-Max looks more modern in terms of styling and i particularly like the side mirrors fitted on the head cowl, mirrors fitted on handlebars tends to vibrate more when the road is more "undulating". however, feedback from a friend who switched from SW to T-max is that the viewing angle is grossly reduced as mirrors are further away from the eye (physics). i'm currently considering changing the stock mirrors to those heavy metallic ones like those used by CB1300.

 

 

Build Quality

 

Both have high levels of build quality, with faultless paint jobs and tight panel gaps. But it seems that Honda's designers have been caught napping. The quality of plastic mouldings are not as good as the Max's, and unlike the Max with its fully covered handlebar, there was only a cursory cover on top but none at the sides and bottom, leaving the plumbing free to peep out from different angles. Tsk tsk... straight to bed and no supper tonight for you blokes.

 

 

Practicality

 

If your definition of practical has any mention of space at all, then go buy the Wing. Period. The Honda has so much more storage space that it's almost too embarrassing to compare. Although the Max has enough underseat space for a full face helmet, Honda says their mothership has space for TWO. We were having none of that PR bull so off we went to MSC's shop for two of their biggest full face helmets. Then we stood back in disbelief, jaws agape as the Wing swallowed both helmets with ease. Now we know why the Wing's passenger looks like he or she is sitting on a Coleman cooler box.

 

if storage space is an important feature, then SW is the clear choice. with a 45L top box firmly fitted to the rear fin, i've got a total of about 100L and the bike still looks normal. i've yet to see a T-Max with top box but i'ld bet it'll look very much a "wierd misfit"

 

needless to guess which pillion seat provides better comfort, and with a cushion fabricated on the top box, the plus is obvious. both bikes have very long bodies which sometimes becomes a issue when parking at congested lots. i ever have to move other bikes in order to get out; maneuvering the T-Max should be easier since it is about 25kg lighter.

Up front, the Max continues to lose its battle for space. Both have a small glove box for your ciggies or a phone, but the Wing also comes with an unbelievably deep lockable box. Ah... this must be how country vets feel when they're delivering cows, I thought as I groped around elbow deep in that hole. It'll take a rain suit or a chain lock easily.

 

Both have a completely enclosed drive, which means the end of messy hours spent oiling and cleaning chains. And believe it or not, the Honda even comes with a parking brake.

 

 

Specs

 

Both scooter are within a gnat's whiskers of each other. The Wing is a tad longer (2cm in wheelbase and 3cm in length), a tad heavier (by 7 kilos) (should be about 25kg), has a bigger engine (600cc vs 500cc) and is thus more powerful (at 49bhp vs 40bhp) (SW400 has 37.5bhp). Mechanically very similar too, with the same parallel twin configuration engine, CVT auto tranny, disk brakes on both ends, and 120 front and 150 rear tyres.

 

A word of caution - the Max's seat height is a whole 5cms higher than the Wing. Those below 5' 5" should try the bike for height before signing on the dotted line.

 

personally, i prefer the T-max's bigger rear tires at 160 compared to the SW's 150 (supposedly gives better grip) and its dual disc front brakes. however, its sitting height is one big minus considering my short legs and standing at only 162cm

 

 

Slow Speed Ride & Handling

 

The road encircling MSC was made for this with all sorts of road surfaces and width thrown in. What was immediately apparent was the Wing's tendency to flop into slow speed turns. This made u-turns dicey as the bike feels like its going to fall down. That never happened and you get used to it after a fashion but the Max had no such problems. Potholes and ruts taken at low speeds gave the Wing's softer suspension an edge over the Max.

 

Another quirk is the Wing's non-linear throttle response. Twist the throttle and you'd think that most of its 50 horses had bolted out the barn the night before. Then at 3000 rpm the motor suddenly wakes up and yanks you forward as if the turbo just kicked in. Only it hasn't got one. Eh? What maketh of black magic doth Honda playing at?

 

Apparently, Honda, thinking that folks would be caught unawares has retarded ignition at low speeds, dousing power. Unfortunately, this only makes the floppy slow speed handling even more suspect. In contrast, the Max's drive feels more direct and linear. It might feel comparatively underpowered but it's largely an illusion due to the Wing's power step. Its ironic that Honda, famous for building "hop on and ride" bikes gets beaten by Yamaha on this count. A case of trying to be too clever.

 

 

High Speed Ride & Handling

 

Its when you're cruising that you get to relax and take in stuff that you don't have time to notice when you're busy cutting through traffic. Take screen height. Both are non-adjustable so you've got to live with what you get. The Max's screen is significantly lower than the Wing, so I was looking above it, rather than getting my vision split in half. If you happen to be 5' 8", tough luck. Both do a good job of deflecting wind and rain and is ace for our inclement weather.

 

The Wing's backrest is a lot higher than the Max's, encouraging you to slouch back, feet well forward on infinitely long floorboards. Ahh.... this is what I like most about scooters. Relieved of clutch and back brake duties, your feet can lounge around anywhere you fancy them to be. Only mega full boat tourers can hope to exceed this level of luxury. The Max's smaller backrest somehow gave me a backache after a few minutes of slouching. Sitting with feet tucked is best, which is no bad thing as this allows more control when the road turns windy.

 

Not that you'd want to go corner straffing on the Wing. Its suspension is too soft for spirited high speed cornering and wobbled embarassingly on a fast undulating sweeper. The scoot still steered true but the grin on Capt Nik's face as he drew level told me that the Max had no such problems. At the hands of an experienced rider like Capt Nik, the Max can keep up with most of the sportbike kakis going up Awana. He only ever gets left behind at Karak Highway, where the Max tops out at around 160kph. The Wing with its bigger engine should go around 15-20kph faster, which is bloody fast for a scooter.

 

Ground clearance is also a bit limited on the Wing, and a few spirited laps of a small roundabout had it scraping its centre stand. The Max touches down later, but that has not stopped Capt Nik from grounding his centre stand, then the side stand, and then the bottom fairing as he hunted down sportbikes. Don't try this at home folks, as Capt Nik really does have red underwear and yes, he wears them outside his blue jumpsuit.

 

contrary to the above comment, specs from boon siew and hong leong lists the ground clearance for SW at 15cm higher than the T-Max's 125mm.

 

 

Performance & Refinement

 

Thankfully both scoots have balancer shafts to counter their parallel twin vibrations, and come close an inline four's smoothness. However, you have this distinct feeling of riding a washing machine in spin cycle.

 

Both scoots with their sub 7 sec 0-100kph times will have you winning that traffic light drag with almost any car that is not blown or charged. Twist and grin and your "fuddy duddy" scooter leaves the boy-racers fumbling in your politically correct four-stroke exhaust fumes. The extra cc.s of the Wing will only show at extra-legal limits and high speed roll-ons.

 

 

Conclusion

 

Two scoots, two manufacturers, and two totally different target audiences. After you get used to the Honda's strange power delivery, both scoots with their automatic transmissions were a joy to use around town and in any situation requiring stop-start riding or frequent gear-changes. And with their big capacity engines, the term "twist-and-go" will never be the same again in scooter land.

 

The SilverWing, like its name implies, is really trying to be a smaller version of Honda's full-on tourer, the GoldWing. It has slightly dodgy handling, but who in their right mind would contemplate knee down antics on a boat? Stand back a bit, loosen up a little, and lounge in a lap of luxury as the world passes you by at more sedate speeds. Flip up your full-face and reach for that coke or fag as you contemplate the meaning of life whilst passing through endless padi fields that stretch to the horizon. When you finally get to the end of that rainbow, a flick of the key will open the "boot", revealing enough luggage for a week's worth of cruising.

 

the SW's big "boot" is one of the key criteria for my selection... and it never fails to impress my friends

like today, i have my tennis rackets, balls, shoes, sports gears, helmets, rain gears, riding jacket, street directory, etc etc... all inside the boot and top box... swee

The T-Max takes its monicker from its fire-breathing bad boy cruiser cousin, the V-Max. Only, its nowhere near as fast. But it handles shed loads better, so it's really more an R-1 than a V-Max. You get a scooter that's brilliant in town, and in the right hands can embarrass more than a few sportbikes in the twisties. It too, can take that cruise to the end of the rainbow, but at the end of the week, your bones will be aching a tad more, and you'd start to smell a bit.

 

 

posted by aries at 11:52 PM http://www.blogger.com/img/icon18_email.gif

[Kris Rider]

official specs:

http://www.hlcorp.com.sg/motorcycles/products_specification.asp?id=1&cat=2

http://www.vibrantwave.com.sg/boonsiew/admin/product/upload/FJS400%20Silverwing.pdf

this is probably the best post I've read on "Silverwing Vs. T-Max"

those in green are my comments

 

Very good post Scooby and i hope that all those who converting to or thinking of buying superscooters read it or get refered to it.

 

On other point on the maintenance is that the T max does require tappet adjustment at service intervals and is not really user friendly enough for the average owner to DIY. The SW on the other hand can go without this for up to 100,000 Kms.

 

You could improve the SW handling by using stiffer front shock springs and also a better after market set of rear shocks but this would then compromise comfort.

[mystizcal]

i did mine at looi's too, total cost $39 ($35 for key n programming, $4 for cutting at mr mint)

 

 

total = $33.5 + $4 + $30 = $67.5 ... kenna carrot liow

fyi, many shops (including looi's) charge $20 for programming

 

 

True its expensive, publish tis info so u guys can make comparison n shop ard for a better deal. I got 25% discount, since i bought a bike fr BS.

[SW9000]

When's your next trip?

 

Still getting clearance from home minister.

 

Should be covering KL (Hard Rock?), Penang (2 nights) and Cameron during Deepavali holiday.

Building confidence for my bike and my butt.

[adriel]

wah good read Scooby..... and i thought why my swing had problm... had to throttle so much then suddenly power come...... it'll be cool if it was instant twist and go......

[anodise57]

wah good read Scooby..... and i thought why my swing had problm... had to throttle so much then suddenly power come...... it'll be cool if it was instant twist and go......

 

 

 

 

eh... rem i told u 600 power comes from mid speed torque.. not low speed....

 

Oh btw cannot compare to the 400s too.. heheheh Got chance..find 1 400 exchange and try...

 

All of the above is subjected to errrr rider's weight as well.. so . u know la.... still hard to get apple to apple comparison.. HAHHAHAHA:sian:

[scoobydoo]

All of the above is subjected to errrr rider's weight as well.. so . u know la.... still hard to get apple to apple comparison.. HAHHAHAHA:sian:

yeah... totally agree all riders have different personal preferences and habits

... while some likes to 飚车, others may like to 飙车

... while some likes noisy exhausts for power, i prefer a "noiseless" smooth ride

 

not to mention an increase of 10cm in seat height... dun think i'ld like to ride a maxi-scoot like a scrambler... si bey 难看

[scoobydoo]

hi guys... i'm going overseas for 8 days, do you think i should disconnect my batt?