Product : Engine Oil Discussion

[RxzDelux]

The oil must also depends on your engine specs... Like you mentioned, 10W60 is too thick for your bike.. Usually big bikes and V twins used up to W60. Smaller cc can stick to W40 ranges.

 

Do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I think you are right la bro. That day i open up the User's manual and read it like a story book. It states Recommended engine oil to use 20W40 or 20W50. Means correct la the 10W60 is too heavy for my bike.

[aixin]

Guys anyone who frequent msia know about the engine oil this guy is talking about? Claims to be better than motul agip etc... Say until like heavenly...

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6303013&postcount=1125

 

Is it not normal for most syn to run ard 10000, with good handling of course

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

2B bikes use shared sump and wet clutch. The oil is doing literally triple duty lubricating the crankshaft, clutch and transmission all at once. Add the extra component of oil assisting the cooling of hot engine parts in a high rpm bike engine.

 

All the crap generated from running an engine on the Malaysian highways at top speed is going to be flying around the insides of the poor little 2B bike engine or floating around in the sump. Oil molecules start to break down due to high temperature and high shear (HTHS) conditions, in order to protect the engine. Additives are gradually consumed for the same purpose; protection.

 

Which means cheaper oil, frequent changes are the way to go for the little engines.

 

10,000km oil change intervals, on an engine that runs at 7000+ rpm to reach highway speeds? Sounds like more snake oil advertising to me.

[STEP_KANG]

Is it not normal for most syn to run ard 10000, with good handling of course

 

finally someone reply to my post...

 

2B bikes use shared sump and wet clutch. The oil is doing literally triple duty lubricating the crankshaft, clutch and transmission all at once. Add the extra component of oil assisting the cooling of hot engine parts in a high rpm bike engine.

 

All the crap generated from running an engine on the Malaysian highways at top speed is going to be flying around the insides of the poor little 2B bike engine or floating around in the sump. Oil molecules start to break down due to high temperature and high shear (HTHS) conditions, in order to protect the engine. Additives are gradually consumed for the same purpose; protection.

 

Which means cheaper oil, frequent changes are the way to go for the little engines.

 

10,000km oil change intervals, on an engine that runs at 7000+ rpm to reach highway speeds? Sounds like more snake oil advertising to me.

 

i was using motul 300v on my bike, mileage reach 8k already but was busy didn't change till mileage hit 10k... that time the gear change was still ok... or is it becoz tat time i neve rev hard and whack so can last longer?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Ah, good to see a real world review.

 

While it's theoretically possible that synthetics can last that long it's still better to change the oil more frequently to get rid of the crap floatng in the sump. It's possible to prolong the life of synthetic oil by replenishing the additives (but you gotta know what you're putting in first! Just dumping in STP Power Booster blindly won't work! Scam-marketed friction reducers will destroy the clutch in no time.)

 

Bikes with oil filters do enjoy longer oil life than without, of course.

 

There are those who tout

 

Kup - don't change oil for 6 months nothing happened.

TA200 - if bike doesn't like the oil bad things start happening within the next 2000km.

 

I won't say my Phantom is underpowered but it requires a heavy hand on the throttle for it to get anywhere, so after a while running on Made in Thailand mineral oil, horrible mechanical noises start to appear... Whereas little Kup is so light it just floats around in traffic.

[STEP_KANG]

Ah, good to see a real world review.

 

While it's theoretically possible that synthetics can last that long it's still better to change the oil more frequently to get rid of the crap floatng in the sump. It's possible to prolong the life of synthetic oil by replenishing the additives (but you gotta know what you're putting in first! Just dumping in STP Power Booster blindly won't work! Scam-marketed friction reducers will destroy the clutch in no time.)

 

Bikes with oil filters do enjoy longer oil life than without, of course.

 

There are those who tout

 

Kup - don't change oil for 6 months nothing happened.

TA200 - if bike doesn't like the oil bad things start happening within the next 2000km.

 

I won't say my Phantom is underpowered but it requires a heavy hand on the throttle for it to get anywhere, so after a while running on Made in Thailand mineral oil, horrible mechanical noises start to appear... Whereas little Kup is so light it just floats around in traffic.

 

icic... wad's ur take on liquid moly's MoS2-anti-friction? i tried it and engine feels smoother...

[uberstore]

Why dun you give Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic Oil a shot. It has very good base stock (PAO) couple with very good addictives to fight acid build up etc.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

icic... wad's ur take on liquid moly's MoS2-anti-friction? i tried it and engine feels smoother...

 

Motorcyclists around the world don't recommend using car oils in bikes for a reason.

 

A lot of new advanced car oils have friction reducers in them to improve performance and fuel economy.

 

Most bikes on the road today still use wet clutches, ie, the clutch is immersed in oil and this is good because oil has a pretty high heat capacity and the wet clutch system can stand a lot of abuse (think years of start-stop riding, traffic light drag racing).

 

Problem is if we add friction reducer products to this wet clutch, there is a chance that the clutch will slip so badly that it will fail to engage, requiring expensive overhaul. Basically have to strip down and clean everything up. From what I've seen of certain products, the clutch may start slipping after a period of months.

 

Note that this concern is totally separate from "friction reducer" technology in Shell V Power and other hi-end fuels, which in layman's terms I think is similar to adding 2T to petrol to improve top end lubrication. Except that the very high detergent levels in these fuels prevent fouling and carbon buildup.

 

For my years of riding I've never gotten benefits from additives so stopped using them. Investing in a solid motorbike oil is more worth it because like uberstore says a quality base stock is important and the big oil companies have done extensive testing to optimise their additive packages in their products.

 

Motul, Chex, Amsoil, etc might just be fancy names but there's a lot of engineering that goes into what's inside the bottle. Additives are like eggs in a cake.

 

Adding too much can ruin the whole recipe.

 

For the newbies:

 

Try to go for recent-specification oils - check the API rating on the back of the canister. If it says SM, it's the most recent USA specification. Even better if it's JASO spec, that means wet clutch approved in Japan. If the 4T's API rating is SF or even worse, it's for emergency use only and won't stand up to today's racing needs!

Edited July 8, 2010 by Pandora's Kitten :3

[RxzDelux]

Why dun you give Amsoil 10W40 Synthetic Oil a shot. It has very good base stock (PAO) couple with very good addictives to fight acid build up etc.

 

 

Personally TRIED and tested bro with mileage recorded. U got PM bro to answer my queries abt this Amsoil 10W40.

[stsoh]

icic... wad's ur take on liquid moly's MoS2-anti-friction? i tried it and engine feels smoother...

 

there r two most taboo ingredients tat oil manufacturers won't add into their oil, i.e. mos2 n ptfe (telfon).

 

liquid moly is a brand, namesake......it doesn't contain mos2 (molydisulfide) as it's ingredient.

liquid moly won't dare to state mos2 as part of it's ingredient.

 

if do ur research mos2 is in hard-crystal form.

it can't be suspended in oil or in wet-form mix with oil.

mos2 will settle down in the oil pan or trap by oil-filter.

 

part of the reasons why all oil manufacturers will not add mos2 into their oil.

 

so whenever u see moly or telfon as ingredients in engine oil or oil additives, avoid it.

 

oh, it's safe to use liquid moly becoz it doesn't have mos2 as it's ingredient.

moly n telfon r normally use for external applications like grease or coating.

Edited July 9, 2010 by stsoh

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Here's why you should never, ever listen to advertising for EO additives:

http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html

 

More harm than good, and doesn't work, period.

[STEP_KANG]

this is the one i'm talking about...

 

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/e_1580.html

[stsoh]

avoid it.

 

read the tech, stated 0.3 um size to bypass filter, dun forget over time filter eventually get clogged n so will mos2.

 

stir engine oil first b4 starting ur engine coz mos2 is solid will settle down to the bottom.

 

telfon was famous then too, dupont the manufacturer clearly stated they r not responsible for any problems caused if it is use in engine oil.

 

there were many other reasons why it wasn't use by oil manufacturers, probably u r still young or unborn yet.

 

at the time where internet is not born yet, in the 60s n 70s when mos2 n telfon were famously use in eo.

Edited July 9, 2010 by stsoh

[STEP_KANG]

avoid it.

 

read the tech, stated 0.3 um size to bypass filter, dun forget over time filter eventually get clogged n so will mos2.

 

stir engine oil first b4 starting ur engine coz mos2 is solid will settle down to the bottom.

 

telfon was famous then too, dupont the manufacturer clearly stated they r not responsible for any problems caused if it is use in engine oil.

 

there were many other reasons why it wasn't use by oil manufacturers, probably u r still young or unborn yet.

 

at the time where internet is not born yet, in the 60s n 70s when mos2 n telfon were famously use in eo.

 

Thanks for the comments... Welcome anyone else to contribute their thoughts...

[mafitra]

Bikes with oil filters do enjoy longer oil life than without, of course.

 

There are those who tout

 

Yeah I had one friend who is riding Triumph who did 3 kinds of interval. 1000km,3000km,5000km. Different EO grades.I think waste of money.

 

Then again, there's a saying Ducati bikes can't take cheap EO either. Sensitive engine.

[stsoh]

tried to recall other reasons beside it been a solid tat will sink down to bottom n trap by oil filter.

 

ideally, it's an engineers' dream to have it distribute evenly on the surface but it's not the case in real life.

other reasons:

1) localization of the mos2 cause uneven wear.

2) localize heat due to poor heat conductivity of mos2 tat have embedded on the surface.

3) use on bike with wet-clutch, mos2 will embedded into softer clutch pads causing clutch to slip thus replacement of clutch plates.

4) localizing of mos2 cause blockage of oil passage, salvation of oil n reduction of oil pressure causing premature wears.

5) clogging of oil filter also contribute to reduction of oil flow n oil pressure, putting more stress on the oil pump.

etc........

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

tried to recall other reasons beside it been a solid tat will sink down to bottom n trap by oil filter.

 

ideally, it's an engineers' dream to have it distribute evenly on the surface but it's not the case in real life.

other reasons:

1) localization of the mos2 cause uneven wear.

2) localize heat due to poor heat conductivity of mos2 tat have embedded on the surface.

3) use on bike with wet-clutch, mos2 will embedded into softer clutch pads causing clutch to slip thus replacement of clutch plates.

4) localizing of mos2 cause blockage of oil passage, salvation of oil n reduction of oil pressure causing premature wears.

5) clogging of oil filter also contribute to reduction of oil flow n oil pressure, putting more stress on the oil pump.

etc........

 

Whoa, you sound like an oil engineer

 

All the above is true - gotta be careful of what snake oil merchants say. Remember, there's no free lunch when it comes to horsepower. It has to come from somewhere: Bigger engine displacement, higher RPMs, longer piston stroke, higher compression etc etc

 

It's simply more practical to keep the bike in good mechanical condition and enjoy it as it is!

 

And teflon lol... judging from how my Teflon coated frying pans behave over the years, that's the last thing I want in my engine!

[stsoh]

am not an engr but have enough of all those snake oil promotions.

tried n tested them, none willing to provide negative points else they can't sell.

 

all advertisement looks good on papers but leaves out real life negative effects.

if it is true, whole world-wide will be using it.

 

for example, do u know tat piston rings r coated with mos2......so why do u need to add mos2 into engine oil to make it worst.

Edited July 11, 2010 by stsoh

[backz]

anyone using castrol power 1 racing 4t?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Apparently all Phantom riders don't like Castrol (made in Thailand?).

 

Personally I never had trouble with it........ until a thousand kilometres in there appeared strange mechanical noises on cold starting, and more strange noises at high revs.

 

Recently about half my Motul oil evaporated and I emergency topped up with Castrol just before a night convoy run. The bike was tremendously loud lol.

 

Now happily using Chex and for just a bit more expensive than Castrol (think, one chicken rice), the engine is smooth, quiet, and doesn't make worrysome mechanical noises on cold start and high power sessions,

[backz]

where do u get chex at? how much?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Planet Motor Cycles @ Ubi, $16 for one litre.

[backz]

chex 9000?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Yep, that's the one.

[chili]

Mobil 1 is recommended.. If not, Yamalube...