KTM Duke 390

[revhappy]

a few things first.

 

in India the duke is not half the price of the ninja. its more like 80% the price of the ninja. which is still great value for money in comparison, but not the half-price being mentioned.

 

second, the duke is manufactured in India, and then brought to KTM HQ in Austria before being delivered to dealers, including in India. so even for India, there is transport cost because they all come out from Austria in their final phase.

 

in any case, i personally think the bike's badge is more important than the country of manufacture. after all, nike is made in China. if the brand is a big global brand with reputation, it is in their self-interest to make sure the product with their badge meets their QC to protect their branding.

 

which is why i would trust a thai bike with a japanese badge, or an indian bike with a european badge. but not an indian bike with an indian badge or a korean bike with a korean badge.

 

Check out this link:

 

http://www.zigwheels.com/bike-comparison/KTM-Duke-390-ABS-vs-Kawasaki-Ninja-300

 

It is 50%.

 

The reason is India has high import duty on bikes. I dont think every duke has to go to Austria, to be sold in India, man. Thats crazy.

 

Here read this link:

 

http://www.bikesales.com.au/reviews/2013/road/ktm/390-duke/launch-2013-ktm-390-duke-36110

 

Quality control for Australia-bound bikes is carried out under KTM’s watchful eye in India, while the Euro-bound bikes are checked back in Austria before they go on to dealers.

Edited September 11, 2013 by revhappy

[revhappy]

The CBR250 makes absolutely no sense for Singapore, given that it falls in 2A category but performance specswise is close to Pulsar 200NS and Duke 200.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/bajaj-pulsar-200-ns/honda-cbr250r

 

Even if you end up buying the CBR250, expect pathetic resale value when you are trying to sell it. It will go down the same road as CBX Twister 250.

[mechwira]

ah well, the plot thickens. this is the first time i'm hearing that australia bound models do not go thru QC in KTM HQ. coincidentally around the same time i hear KTM Australia cannot meet their pre-orders within first shipment of the bike.

 

from http://www.visordown.com/road-tests-first-rides/first-ride-2013-ktm-duke-390/22763.html

The 390, like its smaller siblings, is built by Bajaj (which owns a 47% stake in KTM) over in India and - as KTM took pains to emphasise - then quality-checked in Austria before being despatched to dealers.

 

from http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2013/05/2014-ktm-390-duke-md-first-ride/

The new 390 Duke is manufactured in India in a joint venture with Bajaj, where smaller displacement Dukes are also built (including a 125 and a 200). Nevertheless, the assembled bikes receive extensive, careful quality control review at the Mattighofen KTM plant in Austria before they are released to dealers.

 

from http://www.motorcyclemonthly.co.uk/news/first-ride-ktm-390-duke

Like the smaller Dukes, the 390 is built at Pune in India, by KTM’s partner Bajaj, before being shipped to Austria for a final check.

 

and from http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/ktm-390-domestic-delivery-from-september-end-bajaj-auto/article5029383.ece

Nandi said all the KTM 390 bikes produced so far have been shipped to KTM headquarters in Austria, from where they will go to the dealers.

[revhappy]

I think all the above links are related to EU bound bikes. Even the final link, he says all bikes produced "so far" have been shipped to Austria, may be related to the fact that the first deliveries will be for EU.

 

It makes sense for EU bound bikes to have QC in Austria. But India and Australia bound bikes? No way man, that would be way too expensive and not make economic sense.

[Baal]

The CBR250 makes absolutely no sense for Singapore, given that it falls in 2A category but performance specswise is close to Pulsar 200NS and Duke 200.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/bajaj-pulsar-200-ns/honda-cbr250r

 

Even if you end up buying the CBR250, expect pathetic resale value when you are trying to sell it. It will go down the same road as CBX Twister 250.

 

from a resale perspective, yes. It may only pick up when the strokers eventually become obsolete. Its like a 2b stroker with a broad powerband. Vs the NS, its 2.3 vs 1.8 kg of torque should be noticeably felt. Smoother too, since it has a counter balancer.

[mechwira]

I think all the above links are related to EU bound bikes. Even the final link, he says all bikes produced "so far" have been shipped to Austria, may be related to the fact that the first deliveries will be for EU.

 

It makes sense for EU bound bikes to have QC in Austria. But India and Australia bound bikes? No way man, that would be way too expensive and not make economic sense.

 

if you say so man....

 

an Indian newspaper ask President Bajaj about when the duke will arrive in India, the president replies end of september and that all bikes produced to date are currently in Austria.

 

so the paper ask local market and the president talks euro bound bikes, which means if all are now in Austria it means they have not begun making the bikes meant for India, Asia and Australia?

 

so if the article, dated Aug 16, one month ago all the bikes produced were for euro market, that means only one month ago they start building the ones for India, Autralia and Asia market.... and India alone has 1,500 pre-orders.... seriously wait long long man.....

 

 

update: i stand corrected, based on this India news article, yes its true: bikes for india customers do not go austria, which means wat i said earlier this post is exactly the situation: ktm has decided to deliver all the bikes currently produced so far to europe market, and only just started making the bikes that will eventually be delivered to customers in india. so autralia and rest of asia, good luck waiting.

Edited September 12, 2013 by mechwira

[revhappy]

from a resale perspective, yes. It may only pick up when the strokers eventually become obsolete. Its like a 2b stroker with a broad powerband. Vs the NS, its 2.3 vs 1.8 kg of torque should be noticeably felt. Smoother too, since it has a counter balancer.

 

Yeah, its sad they have 2 bikes CBR150 and CBR250, one is a little too low in CC for the 2B and another little too high. A CBR200 would have been an epic win.

We should really thank Bajaj/KTM to create the perfect CC bikes for Singapore, 200CC and 375CC. I dont think they would have given much thought to the Singapore market, considering how tiny it is. I guess just coincidence that they created the perfect CC bikes.

[Jehuty]

The CBR250 makes absolutely no sense for Singapore, given that it falls in 2A category but performance specswise is close to Pulsar 200NS and Duke 200.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/bajaj-pulsar-200-ns/honda-cbr250r

 

Even if you end up buying the CBR250, expect pathetic resale value when you are trying to sell it. It will go down the same road as CBX Twister 250.

 

Define performance. On the street, performance doesn't matter but yes, the 390 would have better resale, in Singapore, image sells. As far as the 2A bracket goes, anything that is a motard or remotely looks like one will sell, at least for now. It used to be 2B 150 2 strokers but that was yesteryear.

[Jehuty]

The CBR250 makes absolutely no sense for Singapore, given that it falls in 2A category but performance specswise is close to Pulsar 200NS and Duke 200.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/bajaj-pulsar-200-ns/honda-cbr250r

 

Even if you end up buying the CBR250, expect pathetic resale value when you are trying to sell it. It will go down the same road as CBX Twister 250.

 

Define performance. On the street, performance doesn't matter but yes, the 390 would have better resale, in Singapore, image sells. As far as the 2A bracket goes, anything that is a motard or remotely looks like one will sell, at least for now. It used to be 2B 150 2 strokers but that was yesteryear.

[revhappy]

Define performance. On the street, performance doesn't matter but yes, the 390 would have better resale, in Singapore, image sells. As far as the 2A bracket goes, anything that is a motard or remotely looks like one will sell, at least for now. It used to be 2B 150 2 strokers but that was yesteryear.

 

CBR250 top speed is only 144 km/hr, lah. That is very much 2B range.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/honda-cbr250r/kawasaki-bajaj-ninja-250

 

Pulsar 200NS top speed is 136 and Duke 200 is 138, that is almost close to the CBR250. Now why would anyone want to upgrade to 2A and buy CBR250. Ofcourse there are people who go upto class 2 and then settle down for a slower commuter bike, but there are very few such people and hence the resale will be poor.

 

The ninja 250 though top speed is 177 so its still decent for 2A category.

[coolscan]

CBR250 top speed is only 144 km/hr, lah. That is very much 2B range.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/honda-cbr250r/kawasaki-bajaj-ninja-250

 

Pulsar 200NS top speed is 136 and Duke 200 is 138, that is almost close to the CBR250. Now why would anyone want to upgrade to 2A and buy CBR250. Ofcourse there are people who go upto class 2 and then settle down for a slower commuter bike, but there are very few such people and hence the resale will be poor.

 

The ninja 250 though top speed is 177 so its still decent for 2A category.

 

CBR250R top speed is faster than that. >160km/h

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqpILNPeZ_M

[Jehuty]

CBR250 top speed is only 144 km/hr, lah. That is very much 2B range.

 

http://compare.pricesofindia.com/vs/honda-cbr250r/kawasaki-bajaj-ninja-250

 

Pulsar 200NS top speed is 136 and Duke 200 is 138, that is almost close to the CBR250. Now why would anyone want to upgrade to 2A and buy CBR250. Ofcourse there are people who go upto class 2 and then settle down for a slower commuter bike, but there are very few such people and hence the resale will be poor.

 

The ninja 250 though top speed is 177 so its still decent for 2A category.

 

Cuz its a lil more power than a 2B 4 stroker with the similar maintenance. Like I said, anything north of 140 for a commuter is pointless. I'd get the 250 if it didn't have fairings.

[Baal]

Cuz its a lil more power than a 2B 4 stroker with the similar maintenance. Like I said, anything north of 140 for a commuter is pointless. I'd get the 250 if it didn't have fairings.

 

Thought wiki indictop speed as 140ish for CBR 250. Online articles said it could cruise at 120kmh all day with no intrusive vibes. Though numbers wise its not vey unlike NS, but should also consider that that it reach its max specs by mid rpm. 7k for torque, 8.5k for hp. ( dont have to keep revvin & revvin) If dont want fairing, will be the new CRF 250M. (motard). Based on japan site. But torque is lower at 2.2kg instaed of 2.3 and hp lower at 22 instead of 27 for the CBR. But Its also 15kg lighter at 145kg. So that should provide some offset.

 

I wondered why the diff in hp/torque since compression the same at 10.7 (with same engine), upon scrutiny, noticed the CBR has 38mm throttle body. The CRF has 36mm. In SG agree all we need is 140 max speed. So as to be able to maninatain 110kmh constant without straining the engine.

 

Maybe the insurance companies can play their part by making premiums competitive for 250cc. An incentive for those with 2A license not to have the buffet mentallity.....

[mechwira]

top speed is only part of the the story. if a bike has top speed 120kmh and another has top speed 180kmh, sure in singapore you dont need any higher than the 120kmh, but the second bike with the higher top speed means it gets to 120 stronger than the first. thats important to me, not so much the excess unused 60kmh.

[Jehuty]

Thought wiki indictop speed as 140ish for CBR 250. Online articles said it could cruise at 120kmh all day with no intrusive vibes. Though numbers wise its not vey unlike NS, but should also consider that that it reach its max specs by mid rpm. 7k for torque, 8.5k for hp. ( dont have to keep revvin & revvin) If dont want fairing, will be the new CRF 250M. (motard). Based on japan site. But torque is lower at 2.2kg instaed of 2.3 and hp lower at 22 instead of 27 for the CBR. But Its also 15kg lighter at 145kg. So that should provide some offset.

 

I wondered why the diff in hp/torque since compression the same at 10.7 (with same engine), upon scrutiny, noticed the CBR has 38mm throttle body. The CRF has 36mm. In SG agree all we need is 140 max speed. So as to be able to maninatain 110kmh constant without straining the engine.

 

Maybe the insurance companies can play their part by making premiums competitive for 250cc. An incentive for those with 2A license not to have the buffet mentallity.....

 

CRF250 no 2nd hand yet is it? The Yamahas are on the expensive side.

[coolscan]

yes. class 2A bike cruises comfortably at 130~140, class 2 bike cruises comfortably at 180+ (bike, not rider), while still within the healthy zone of the power band. Both are able to over take and get rid of trouble when there is need. that's the main motivation of upgrading from 2b.

[Baal]

CRF250 no 2nd hand yet is it? The Yamahas are on the expensive side.

 

Don't think have 2nd hand yet. Even if so, should be the 250L (trail). The more sexy 1 for me is the M which I don't think is in. 130-140 top speed is min top speed acceptable for me since in terms of constant speed, I limit myself to 100. Only the occasional overtake on highway may each 110++. I don't go up north at all. No doubt Yammy is ex but Motard vs Motard, the yammy wins by a fairly clear margin. 30hp at 10k, 2.4kg at 8kor somethin....but gotta rev more though to reap the benefits.

[frost98]

This is how they earn your money la. Very difficult to comprehend meh.. The driving schools need to feed so many driving instructors. If you remove Class 2 licensing, some of them will be out of jobs.

 

 

Something to share with everyone since some of the discussion here has been around our outdated licensing system.

I recently wrote a mail to Traffic Police (see mail below) to suggest that our classification of motorcycles for licensing purposes be revised to be based on horsepower instead of engine displacement, as is now the case in the European Union since beginning of this year. My main argument was that there are bikes in the 2A category which generate more hp than class 2 bikes. As an example: CB400 (52hp) and BMW GS 650 (48hp).

This would allow more choices in the 2A category and it just makes sense for the intended purpose of the licensing system. I also made comments about the unnecessary road rules testing during the tests. By the way the new Euro system might be a 3 tier system, but after being awarded the second class (limited to 48hp bikes), you are promoted to the last class automatically by the time you are 24 and if you have 2 years experience on the 48hp class. So you really do only 2 tests. Also, the power to weight ratio is also another criteria used. This means bikes such as the KTM Duke 690 are classified in the lower class although they make more than 48hp.

This is a much better classification that serves the intended purpose of tiered licensing much better than our system. But the reply I received from TP was just another one of their automated responses which goes something like this: our licensing system was introduced to reduce fatalities ..blah blah blah ...

Very disappointing but may be some of the brothers (and sisters) would also want to write to the TP to put some more pressure specially when LTA has recently announced that the COE for cars will be revised to use engine hp instead of displacement.

 

Apologies for the long post but just wanted to get this off my chest and I'm quite frustrated by the narrow minded attitude of the TP. Why do our licensing system have to be arguably the most restrictive in the world is beyond me.

 

My email to TP:

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I am currently doing some research about class 2A motorcycles in view

 

of buying one and I have noticed a few things which I believe requires the LTA

 

to rethink its license categorization criteria.

 

Class 2A: one of the most common motorbikes on our roads is the ubiquitous

 

Honda CB400 which has an engine developing about 54 Hp. Its weight is about 165

 

kg.

 

Class 2: the BMW G650 GS has a 650 cc engine which develops 48 Hp. Its weight

 

is about 170 kg.

 

I believe it is time for the LTA to review the motorcycle license system here

 

as it is now outdated due to technological developments in the area of

 

motorcycle engines. The European union has recently adopted a new drivers

 

license system that categorizes motorcycles based on the horsepower of the

 

engine rather than engine displacement. This is a more sensible classification

 

system.

 

Also, I do not understand why someone going for a class 2 evaluation needs to

 

go through all the same road rules test that were already done during the class

 

2B and 2A evaluation. Doing a class 2 evaluation should involve only the skills

 

required to handle the additional power and weight of the bike. If the trainer

 

thinks this has been fulfilled, then the license should be awarded. Having the

 

student memorize the whole course and ride it on the day of the test while

 

observing traffic rules as on the class 2b and 2a evaluation does not add

 

anything to the skills of the student.

 

Finally, I also do not understand the logic in having 3 motorcycle license

 

classes like we do here. As an example: testing a student on a 600cc bike for

 

the class 2 license is meant to equip the student with the skills required for

 

such a bike. However, note that the weight and power difference between such a

 

bike and the 400 cc bike used for class 2 license is not as significant as the

 

difference between the 600 c bike and the much larger bikes available on the

 

market such as the Honda Goldwing which has an 1800 cc engine. My point is it

 

is not possible to properly categorize the whole range of motorcycles available

 

on the market by 200 cc increments or we would have 7-8 categories. I believe a

 

better system would be to keep the class 2b and 2a categories and allow riders

 

to progress to bigger bikes if they have been riding a class 2a bike for a

 

certain number of years.

 

 

 

I truly believe our motorycle license system is outdated and needs to be

 

reviewed.

[rik_ricky]

Hahaha! Its the shipment delay again. Iwent down to dirtwheel yesterday to do the booking on Duke390 and they told me will arrive in late OCT(Confirm?).

 

Well, i hope this time it really come.

[revhappy]

Thought wiki indictop speed as 140ish for CBR 250. Online articles said it could cruise at 120kmh all day with no intrusive vibes. Though numbers wise its not vey unlike NS, but should also consider that that it reach its max specs by mid rpm. 7k for torque, 8.5k for hp. ( dont have to keep revvin & revvin) If dont want fairing, will be the new CRF 250M. (motard). Based on japan site. But torque is lower at 2.2kg instaed of 2.3 and hp lower at 22 instead of 27 for the CBR. But Its also 15kg lighter at 145kg. So that should provide some offset.

 

I wondered why the diff in hp/torque since compression the same at 10.7 (with same engine), upon scrutiny, noticed the CBR has 38mm throttle body. The CRF has 36mm. In SG agree all we need is 140 max speed. So as to be able to maninatain 110kmh constant without straining the engine.

 

Maybe the insurance companies can play their part by making premiums competitive for 250cc. An incentive for those with 2A license not to have the buffet mentallity.....

 

Yeah and for that there are many 2B 4 stroke bikes that can do that. Yamaha R15, FZ150i,Pulsar 200NS, Duke200 even Spark 135!

[mechwira]

Hahaha! Its the shipment delay again. Iwent down to dirtwheel yesterday to do the booking on Duke390 and they told me will arrive in late OCT(Confirm?).

 

Well, i hope this time it really come.

 

not surprised....

 

in fact by now i'd be more surprised if it finally turns up in october. just started production for India buyers one month ago, 1500 pieces needed just for their local market (not counting additional pre-orders in the past month), and then must make donno how many pieces ordered by Australia market for which apparently dealers there already say first shipment wont fulfill all pre-orders.... and then it should hit roads in europe anytime now so probably even more orders will come from europe...

 

pity the local buyers who placed deposit back in june.

[Baal]

Yeah and for that there are many 2B 4 stroke bikes that can do that. Yamaha R15, FZ150i,Pulsar 200NS, Duke200 even Spark 135!

 

but its also the way 1 get to that speed. ( quality of the ride ) eg the drz has top speed in thar region too....but riding in sg city conditions, can do so w/o constantly kicking down maintaining min rpm to ensure torque, overtake w/o dropping gear. A 250cc will do the same as a R15, abit less frantically. more stable too? But I am a self admitted laggard.

[Jehuty]

but its also the way 1 get to that speed. ( quality of the ride ) eg the drz has top speed in thar region too....but riding in sg city conditions, can do so w/o constantly kicking down maintaining min rpm to ensure torque, overtake w/o dropping gear. A 250cc will do the same as a R15, abit less frantically. more stable too? But I am a self admitted laggard.

 

Well I like 250-400 motards because i figured they are tall so have better view of things, has strong bottom, slim profile for filtering, can mount kerbs easily, all useful for commuting.

[revhappy]

Well I like 250-400 motards because i figured they are tall so have better view of things, has strong bottom, slim profile for filtering, can mount kerbs easily, all useful for commuting.

 

But are they comfortable? Seat is so thin and mounting and dismounting is a pain. Naked bikes give the best compromise between the comfort of a scooter and the power of a motard.

[Jehuty]

But are they comfortable? Seat is so thin and mounting and dismounting is a pain. Naked bikes give the best compromise between the comfort of a scooter and the power of a motard.

 

Problem is the singles streetbikes in that category look like crap with the KTM duke 390 as an exception, well can always get a gel seat wahahah