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Picking the right tyre for the track.


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yo fellow bros'... well i got myself a powerace n i cn felt dat its much comparable wif racetech. the grip is second to none..... but gt problem wif tyre pressure coz my tyre really look koyak after yesterday trackday... usually i adopt a 28, 28 psi for front n rear for racetech n the worn is even wif no cold tear but yesterday i use 28, 28psi for powerace n the wear is terrible... u hav any suggestion wat pressure to use? my tyre size for rear is 180/55.

1 more thing... usually i encounter my rear tyre sliding while i'm using racetech but its a controlled type of slide but for powerace, no matter how i bank the corners theres no slide at all.. mayb i'm nt fast enuff.. haha!

:cheeky:

 

Hi King pet,

 

28psi is way too low, especially for the front tyre. Remember, tyre pressures used by expert riders will be lower than intermediate riders, even lower again for beginners.

 

Dont take this the wrong way, I am just usign an example and am not inferring to you as a beginner or a slow poke.

 

The reason is that the faster you ride, the more heat you generate.

 

For example, lets say that a particular tyre is happy at 38psi (hot).

 

EXpert riders that ride real fast, brake real hard and gun the bikes out of the corners may be able to generate 8 psi of pressure due to heat expansion of the air in the tyre. Intermediate riders, who obviously cannot ride as hard, will generate less.

 

Obviously, if the intermediate rider used the same cold pressures as the expert, he would not be able to bring the pressure high enough, meaning that the tyres would not have enough pressure.

 

Simple solution is to use higher pressures, to make up for the lack of heat generation.

 

Also, since you mentioned about the differences between the 2 tyres,

 

My own opinion about the character of these 2 tyres (Metzeler & Michelin):

 

The Metzeler feels more comfy and communicates alot but does not have the drive grip of the Michelin. This is probably why you have not been sliding.

 

Exploit the character of the Michelin and crack that throttle open as soon as you can! They do not step out that far when they spin!

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

hAnG lOoSe,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

The REV Club

For riders, by riders, NOT SOME GREEDY F*CK OUT TO MAKE A BUCK

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/image.php?u=23316&dateline=1271137474&type=profile

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Awww......Hart had spoken. Very simple and easy to understand.

 

To make things as simple as possible, I always make sure my bike is setup properly as much as possible, check the static and rider sag whenever a fren wants to do his/her bike, and I'll take the chance to check my bike too (who knows, maybe I might put on or shave off some weight and checking the sags just put these little things at the bcak of your head in the tracks). It does not hurt to take some measurements just to check. However, I'm not so racer that I need to make sure the tyres I put on would offset the geometry unless I experience way way bad handling which yet to surface.

 

Lastly, I used to opt for 30psi front and rear but last couple of sessions before I leave town was 31psi front and rear which I actually prefered more. Most race tyres are recommended at 31F, 29R cold pressure from manufacturers and a +/- of 1 psi is okay according to them. So far the differences between brands are not very much except for the Diablo SuperCorsa which felt almost like a leaking rear tyre at 31psi front and rear. But it's what I feel on my duck, so just my 2 cents. There could be a possiblilty that different bikes would feel better with certain brands of tyres, but you are the pilot, you should know your bike very well.

 

Oh, I only had the chance to don 120/70-17 and 180/55-17 race tyres.

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flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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so far i've nt encountered any problems wif a 28f 28r pressure, but wat pressure wud u suggest best, 30f 28r? the feedback i got wif these michelins r they r super super grippy n they dun slide like the racetechs n even though the front tyre pressure is low, i nvr encounter front tyre sliding or giving way, mayb its nt the time yet. :) still yet to xperience the full potential of the michelins..... btw... me no a technical racer like our bro hartho mamola here n nt even close to nologicone oso. i juz try to adapt to situations dat i encounter in the track, i nvr even set my suspension sag since the time i got my bike. juz meddle wif the rebound n compression only. its really a gamble...... hahakz.........

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so far i've nt encountered any problems wif a 28f 28r pressure, but wat pressure wud u suggest best, 30f 28r? the feedback i got wif these michelins r they r super super grippy n they dun slide like the racetechs n even though the front tyre pressure is low, i nvr encounter front tyre sliding or giving way, mayb its nt the time yet. :) still yet to xperience the full potential of the michelins..... btw... me no a technical racer like our bro hartho mamola here n nt even close to nologicone oso. i juz try to adapt to situations dat i encounter in the track, i nvr even set my suspension sag since the time i got my bike. juz meddle wif the rebound n compression only. its really a gamble...... hahakz.........

 

Hey Kingpet,

 

Trust me dude, 28 on the front is especially too soft. I can safely say that if you try a higher pressure, the bike will deifinitely steer better since the profile would be sharper. More air filling the tyre will lend some strength to the carcass, helping it resist deformation under braking, too much deformation will make the bike feel like it is turning on flat tyres, forcing you to muscle the bike into the turn. Remember, we DO WANT some deformation to gain bigger contact patches, but under inflation will make the tyre "fold", giving less grip.

 

Like one of my "Shifu" tells me: "Hart, why are you so lazy? Just try, if you dont like it, just release some air lah...Lazy Git..."

 

You will never know until you try, for Chrissakes I even rode a few times with 36psi front & rear with my 636 at PG on the past, just to see what it felt like.

Obviously it was not that great...hahahha.

 

I suggest that you get these pressures down pat first, since it can be very confusing when you more than one variable involved. EG: Tyre Pressure and Suspension. Settle one first then go on to another. Even with suspension, never adjust more than one at a time, so that you can isolate the differences made by a single adjustment.

 

Reading what you said, I urge you to go get your sag settings right first. You can fiddle around with damping and pressures all you want, but preload and sag settings will affect ride quality ALOT!!! This ride quality is what gives you that confident feel on the bike, which translates into corner speed, which will lead to faster lap times and safer riding on the roads. I remember one time when Joe from Sporting amazed me. We met for dinner and he took a look at my bike, bouncing the forks while it was parked and immediately told me that I needed one more ring of preload. I was skeptical but tried it out. You will not believe how much difference that made! I felt like I was riding a brand new bike back home!

 

Get it done. Consult Joe (Sporting) or Henry (Minerva), they both have vast experience and are very helpful. I am sure they will hook you up.

 

Lastly, I aint no technical racer bo! Just regurgitating whatever I have learnt/heard from people I trust, or from mistakes made... Suspension is a black art, just like 2 stroke tuning...

 

Glad to hear you have discovered the grip of the Michelins. Have fun!

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

hAnG lOoSe,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

The REV Club

For riders, by riders, NOT SOME GREEDY F*CK OUT TO MAKE A BUCK

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/image.php?u=23316&dateline=1271137474&type=profile

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't know how up-to-date i am with this news, but today i popped down to the mah open house thingy.

 

They have finally got 190/55 profile Power Race for sale in medium soft, no mediums apparently.

Those who risk nothing, do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing.

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I think the tyre pressure thing is a chicken and egg question.

 

If the pressure is set too low, the rider may not ride hard enough to generate enough heat to bring it up to temperature. But because the tyre is flexing more, it might overheat prematurely and give even less grip.

 

To allow it to flex less, pump higher pressure so its stiffer. But then since the pressure is higher, it becomes even harder to get the temperature up since it doesn't flex as much.

 

For me I just use street tyres at street pressures. My rear tyre reads 45PSI when hot.

:cool:
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Hey Hil,

 

How's it going mate?

 

About the tyres, I have seen those damn things around for some time. Recognise the tread pattern from some time ago. Would not touch them dude. First off, I noticed that they had a category "W" speed rating, which is up to 168 mph. Superbike tyres we use are all "Z" rated which is the highest you can go. Second of all, SHINKO????????

 

When it comes to tyres I am brand conscious.. sorry, the Ah Beng in me has surfaced.

 

Le Kuah Simi?

hAnG lOoSe,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

The REV Club

For riders, by riders, NOT SOME GREEDY F*CK OUT TO MAKE A BUCK

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/image.php?u=23316&dateline=1271137474&type=profile

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Michelin Pilot Power for a DRZ400SM.

 

Probably the best and most applicable tyres I have ever put on the bike so far. Excellent grip and durable.

 

A 150 rear and 120 front.

 

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FAA licenced motorcycle mechanic :angel:

 

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Hey Hil,

 

How's it going mate?

 

About the tyres, I have seen those damn things around for some time. Recognise the tread pattern from some time ago. Would not touch them dude. First off, I noticed that they had a category "W" speed rating, which is up to 168 mph. Superbike tyres we use are all "Z" rated which is the highest you can go. Second of all, SHINKO????????

 

When it comes to tyres I am brand conscious.. sorry, the Ah Beng in me has surfaced.

 

Le Kuah Simi?

 

Hey Hartie Norman!!

 

Hmm...maybe will get my a$$ around to get my M1(motorbike, open class) license soon. Actually I was thinking of using them on my SM :lol:

 

Not likely on a SBK, but you know, Twins no top end one lah, lol.

 

Shinko, made in Korea. Like Kia and Hyundai, lol....

 

King of the Hill.....anyone wants butane?

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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Michelin Pilot Power for a DRZ400SM.

 

Probably the best and most applicable tyres I have ever put on the bike so far. Excellent grip and durable.

 

A 150 rear and 120 front.

 

 

Yup, lots of 'tarded riders recommend to stick with the 150R. I would do that too...see no point in slapping a 160R. 2CT I have no doubts about it, like the DCIII and M3, which are well known. Since you tested the 2CT on the 'tards, I figure I try something else, ha ha ha. Funny me lah, like the dimple looks on the Shinko for some reasons, so will definately try a pair for the heck of it. If it's not good, condamn it to hell :lol: And 'tards are good testing machines, unlike sportsbike. Sportsbike I would still go for Dot Race ****....

 

Sorry guys, maybe what I really meant is "These Shinko for track on a 'tard?"

 

:cheeky:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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I don't think we spend much time above 168mph on the track, do we? Thats 270km/h.

 

Anyway Shinko seems to be a popular drag racing tyre in the US.

 

Oh, I guess Hart is being extra safe here because though we mostly do not go above 270km/hr on the tracks, but no one can be sure about the NSHW straight blast. Among ourselves, it's easy to just say whatever things and let the individual do their own judgements over kopi session but on the forum we never know who is reading and really digesting whatever we are saying....when one takes everything word for word, oh no....something bad is bound to happen.

 

But W rated works well enough for my ex bike with a renowned top speed of 240km/hrs only :lol:

 

:angel:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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Hello fellow riders. What do u all think abt Pirelli Diablo Corsa III?

Pls compare and tell me what u think abt 190/50 & 180/55 ?

 

I would like to hear ur feedbacks. Thanks

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/625498_10151506336500777_489049580_n.jpg

 

Bikes Ridden & Riding Currently.

Yamaha YZF125 - 2001

Super 4 Spec II - 2002

Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2003

Ducati 999 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2006

Yamaha R1'09 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2009

+ Vespa LX150 - 2012

FJR1300A '13 / Vespa Lx150 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2013

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Hello fellow riders. What do u all think abt Pirelli Diablo Corsa III?

Pls compare and tell me what u think abt 190/50 & 180/55 ?

 

I would like to hear ur feedbacks. Thanks

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137062

 

Hart did a great writeup on this.

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Hey Thanks... Currently i'm using the Corsa III. And it feels great. I noticed someone was also saying that Michelin Tyres are really grippy and wont slide out? Actually, any tyres will slide out. it depends on how early and hard u get on ur gas at the exit of ur turn.

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/625498_10151506336500777_489049580_n.jpg

 

Bikes Ridden & Riding Currently.

Yamaha YZF125 - 2001

Super 4 Spec II - 2002

Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2003

Ducati 999 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2006

Yamaha R1'09 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2009

+ Vespa LX150 - 2012

FJR1300A '13 / Vespa Lx150 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2013

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Hey Thanks... Currently i'm using the Corsa III. And it feels great. I noticed someone was also saying that Michelin Tyres are really grippy and wont slide out? Actually, any tyres will slide out. it depends on how early and hard u get on ur gas at the exit of ur turn.

 

Hi Corse,

 

I think that maybe you were talking about what I had said.

 

If you look closely, what I said was that Michelins have MORE drive grip and do not STEP out that far when they slide. I also gave my opinion between a few brands.

 

I did not say that Michelins do NOT SLIDE at all.

 

Please do re-consider what you posted above.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

hAnG lOoSe,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

The REV Club

For riders, by riders, NOT SOME GREEDY F*CK OUT TO MAKE A BUCK

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/image.php?u=23316&dateline=1271137474&type=profile

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Yup, tyres are like underwears, very individual but yet you could get it off the shopping shelves. Remember what works for one will not work for another. An expert even advise me not to use Medium/Soft for Michelins Power Race but the Medium compounds because the Soft on the sides are for qualifying purposes. However, this advise is applicable to me because I admit I am not very senstive to tyres feedback and I'm at a pace where I could only finish off a set of tyres around 7 ~ 8 sessions.

 

This thread is towards a sharing concept, not like proven formula. There are guys who still insisting on 190/55 at the end of the day. No one is right or wrong.

 

:thumb:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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Hi Corse,

 

I think that maybe you were talking about what I had said.

 

If you look closely, what I said was that Michelins have MORE drive grip and do not STEP out that far when they slide. I also gave my opinion between a few brands.

 

I did not say that Michelins do NOT SLIDE at all.

 

Please do re-consider what you posted above.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

 

Haha, Sorry abt that... i guess i didn't read it carfully.

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/625498_10151506336500777_489049580_n.jpg

 

Bikes Ridden & Riding Currently.

Yamaha YZF125 - 2001

Super 4 Spec II - 2002

Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2003

Ducati 999 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2006

Yamaha R1'09 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2009

+ Vespa LX150 - 2012

FJR1300A '13 / Vespa Lx150 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2013

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've heard that some riders after a few hours on PG with new tyres, when they head back to S'pore, they will sell of their tyres and get new ones for their next track session. I heard that its becuz that some tyres might just burst while riding normally on S'pore road after being used on PG.

 

How true is this?

 

I've been at PG on a few Saturdays and have met up with the usual riders their, especially the Ang Mo's and they dont change their tyres.

 

I've been using my Corsa III for 3 Sessions already, and thats when i had an advice form someone saying to becareful and not to push too hard if not my tyre might just burst. What do u all think guys?

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/625498_10151506336500777_489049580_n.jpg

 

Bikes Ridden & Riding Currently.

Yamaha YZF125 - 2001

Super 4 Spec II - 2002

Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2003

Ducati 999 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2006

Yamaha R1'09 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2009

+ Vespa LX150 - 2012

FJR1300A '13 / Vespa Lx150 / Ducati S4 / Harley Softail - 2013

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was thinking of pilot road2 and diablo corsa III

 

any advice??

一路å‘北 4 EVER , my friend

 

 

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Read "Picking the right tyre for the track". Seriously, would anyone wanna choose Pilot Road 2 for the track? Something wrong with the objective here.

 

There's another tyre thread at Accessories, Products & Gadgets. Dun mixed up....since when we even talk about mileage here? We talk about tyre wear measured in "sessions".

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48008&d=1198993193

flowers: 1979-2007 (Gilera Runner, Honda Varadero, Ducati 999, Yamaha 05 R6)

#48 Shoya Tomizawa: 05 Sep 10

LollyPop: 1983-2011

#58 Marco Simoncelli, 20 January 1987 - 23 October 2011 Sepang GP

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I've heard that some riders after a few hours on PG with new tyres, when they head back to S'pore, they will sell of their tyres and get new ones for their next track session. I heard that its becuz that some tyres might just burst while riding normally on S'pore road after being used on PG.

 

How true is this?

 

I've been at PG on a few Saturdays and have met up with the usual riders their, especially the Ang Mo's and they dont change their tyres.

 

I've been using my Corsa III for 3 Sessions already, and thats when i had an advice form someone saying to becareful and not to push too hard if not my tyre might just burst. What do u all think guys?

 

Hey Corse,

 

You can take that rumour and trash it. It will not happen, unless there is seriously something wrong with that tyre.

 

If it had just been used as it maker had intended it, no matter how hard you run it, there will be NO risk of it exploding after being stressed on a track.

 

However, if you run the rubber down to the cords, then of course, it will burst, since you had worn right through the rubber and into the carcass.

 

Many riders, myself included have run the same pair of tyres up to 3 "Sepang Round Trips".

 

By one round trip, I mean:

 

Riding from home to Sepang, Track Day on Saturday evening, Trackday on Sunday Morning, then riding back home. Total mileage for that kinda trip is about 1000 kms.

 

If the next Track Day was close enough, we would use the same tire for commuting and do that round trip again.

 

So no worries there, the only thing you have to watch out for is lesser grip everytime you trash them.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

hAnG lOoSe,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

The REV Club

For riders, by riders, NOT SOME GREEDY F*CK OUT TO MAKE A BUCK

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/image.php?u=23316&dateline=1271137474&type=profile

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