EO for kup

[BCL]

40 or 50W will be good....

Thicker oil has higher resistance/load for your engine....

Thinner oil favours High RPM power...

 

Riding a kup? 40w good enough...unless u only full throttle 1st gear only from pt. A to B.

[Isopropyl]

Note: U can still use Diesel Vehicle Engine oil for kup as kupkias RPM are less than 10000, any redline more than 10000RPM to use specified engine oil for bikes, reason is Oil for trucks have less Anti-foaming additives, & when high rev , oil becomes foam inside the engine, foam is air, bad for engine. Also sometimes it comes with higher Moly content-This is Clutch killer.

 

most engine oil used silicone based or coploymer defoamer and passed the same foaming tendency ASTM D-892 test. although not in the same natural, diesel engine oil is being designed to deal with a 150,000-200,000rpm turbocharger so their anti-foaming properties is quite decent too.

 

it is not uncommon for motorcycle specific engine oil to have much higher moly content then diesel engine oil. think redline, motul, maxima etc. all these high-end oil is loaded with 2-5 times more moly then you can find in diesel engine oil. so you think they are formulating bike oil that kill your clutch?

[BCL]

oil is fed into turbocharger by the vehicle oil pump , the high rpm of 200,000 will not cause the oil to be aerated, it is the gears that meshing through the oil that cause it to foam.....The degrading of oil is caused the heat of the Turbocharger....

 

No wonder my friend and me got clutch slippage using the Group V oil that u mentioned.....Have to see the VOA...do u have it? could u share?

[Isopropyl]

oil is fed into turbocharger by the vehicle oil pump , the high rpm of 200,000 will not cause the oil to be aerated, it is the gears that meshing through the oil that cause it to foam.....The degrading of oil is caused the heat of the Turbocharger....

 

No wonder my friend and me got clutch slippage using the Group V oil that u mentioned.....Have to see the VOA...do u have it? could u share?

 

oil foam due to the mechanical action of the engine which create turbulent flow and causing the oil mixing with air. regardless of the mean of mechanical action, if there is enough turbulent created, there will be foaming. the high rpm in the turbo charger should transfer enough energy to cause the oil to flow at high velocity creating turbulent in the sump. of course as you mention, anything that mechancally "whipping" the oil tend to create more foam.

 

but looking at Amsoil motorcycle white paper, we can see oil from Pennzoil, Lucus, Royal Purple, Bel-ray and Motul failing the foaming tendency test yet they are some of the popular oil in the market? as much as the manufactor want us to believe that non-specific bike oil is bad for your engine but is it really so? how come we are not hearing people using those oil i mention had their engine destroyed? something to think about isn't it?

 

do remember that major HDEO brand did send their oil for testing and approved in both commercial and service rating. while many motorcycle oil just state they meet this and that spec without actually approved by API. HDEO used the same foaming tendency test as PCMO and bike specific oil is based on that test too. so if it passes, i don't see why it will suddenly failed in a motorcycle?

 

anti-foaming additives is just a chemical that decrease the surface tension of the air bubble causing it to break easily. normally it consist of some form silcone compound. such compound is already used during the manufactoring process and so normally it is sufficent and does not require to add more of it. you can find some of these anti-foaming additive showing up as silicon in VOA. some higher-end oil like Amsoil motorcycle oil might be using better anti-foaming additive like acrylated hydrocarbons.

 

common moly used today in engine oil are like MoTDC or Trimer. unlike in the eariler days, MoS2 have soluble problem, modern moly compound work only when plated to metal with the right condition. if it is not plated, it simply flow around in the oil looking silly. clutch plate is non-metal material hence it does not really affect the clutch. of course, there are also other friction modifiers other then moly.

 

wow. i can't possible remember when i read those UOAs or VOAs to give you the link. you can do a search which i think you should be able to find easily. for example in this link, Redline claim their oil have 0.05% of moly which is about 500ppm and claim they meet JASO MA. Scheaffer V-twin oil should have around 360ppm if i am not wrong and claim they meet JASO MA2 spec. Motul have about 300 or so??? and the winner is? Maxima Ultra which rougly have a whopping 800ppm!!! you got to love them do you:cheeky:

 

most big brand HDEO like rotella, delvac, delo have about 60-90ppm.

[QuanIsHere]

Anyone who rides a Kup with Oil filter(spark, X1R or Jupiter), u are good to use semi-synthetic oil or better fully syn..but dun expect to do extended drain, oil sump holds 1 litres. Any longer interval quite siong for the oil pump to work.

 

If u r riding a kup w/o oil filter(smash,wave, Shogun, spark z, EX5) don't have to use semi-syn even. Because there are no oil filter to trap metal fillings(wear material), u are keeping the wear material in suspension. better to change cheap engine oil and change it regularly.

 

Note: U can still use Diesel Vehicle Engine oil for kup as kupkias RPM are less than 10000, any redline more than 10000RPM to use specified engine oil for bikes, reason is Oil for trucks have less Anti-foaming additives, & when high rev , oil becomes foam inside the engine, foam is air, bad for engine. Also sometimes it comes with higher Moly content-This is Clutch killer.

thanks bro! very very good information!!

[QuanIsHere]

There is a difference only to those who demands only the best for their vehicles.

Riding a bike has always been a close intimacy between man and machine.

 

I have always used fully syn due to the smoothness and better fuel economy it gives.

 

Follow what is recommended by your manual for gradings.

 

Im a big fan or 5w40 or 10w40 oils for better protection during cold start up and a more responsive engine.

 

For my kub(a sym magic) reccomended is to change oil every 1000km and that is what i do.

 

until now i haven try out other type of oil but only 10w40 because i was told to do so. but 1000k 1 time i think abit too fast and i was told by a mech that 1.5k change 1 time. but my friend is a mech he told me if u got so much money pls give me.

[QuanIsHere]

oil foam due to the mechanical action of the engine which create turbulent flow and causing the oil mixing with air. regardless of the mean of mechanical action, if there is enough turbulent created, there will be foaming. the high rpm in the turbo charger should transfer enough energy to cause the oil to flow at high velocity creating turbulent in the sump. of course as you mention, anything that mechancally "whipping" the oil tend to create more foam.

 

but looking at Amsoil motorcycle white paper, we can see oil from Pennzoil, Lucus, Royal Purple, Bel-ray and Motul failing the foaming tendency test yet they are some of the popular oil in the market? as much as the manufactor want us to believe that non-specific bike oil is bad for your engine but is it really so? how come we are not hearing people using those oil i mention had their engine destroyed? something to think about isn't it?

 

do remember that major HDEO brand did send their oil for testing and approved in both commercial and service rating. while many motorcycle oil just state they meet this and that spec without actually approved by API. HDEO used the same foaming tendency test as PCMO and bike specific oil is based on that test too. so if it passes, i don't see why it will suddenly failed in a motorcycle?

 

anti-foaming additives is just a chemical that decrease the surface tension of the air bubble causing it to break easily. normally it consist of some form silcone compound. such compound is already used during the manufactoring process and so normally it is sufficent and does not require to add more of it. you can find some of these anti-foaming additive showing up as silicon in VOA. some higher-end oil like Amsoil motorcycle oil might be using better anti-foaming additive like acrylated hydrocarbons.

 

common moly used today in engine oil are like MoTDC or Trimer. unlike in the eariler days, MoS2 have soluble problem, modern moly compound work only when plated to metal with the right condition. if it is not plated, it simply flow around in the oil looking silly. clutch plate is non-metal material hence it does not really affect the clutch. of course, there are also other friction modifiers other then moly.

 

wow. i can't possible remember when i read those UOAs or VOAs to give you the link. you can do a search which i think you should be able to find easily. for example in this link, Redline claim their oil have 0.05% of moly which is about 500ppm and claim they meet JASO MA. Scheaffer V-twin oil should have around 360ppm if i am not wrong and claim they meet JASO MA2 spec. Motul have about 300 or so??? and the winner is? Maxima Ultra which rougly have a whopping 800ppm!!! you got to love them do you:cheeky:

 

most big brand HDEO like rotella, delvac, delo have about 60-90ppm.

market strategy!! these big company wanna earn bucks from customer! just 1 day if got 1 ******* rip all the myth of EO, they gonna hunt that guy down !

[Isopropyl]

market strategy!! these big company wanna earn bucks from customer! just 1 day if got 1 ******* rip all the myth of EO, they gonna hunt that guy down !

 

yes mate. it all about marketing. we have no doubt their oil is very good but the question is do we really need that level of protection or just a simple inexpensive mineral oil will do? that the beauty of marketing, it make you think that either you get their oil or you risk wearing out your beloved machine.

 

for example in Amsoil motorcycle white paper, they did a gear test which suppose to show you that their oil protect your transmission much better then the rest. the gear test is make up of 13 stages with increasing pressure on the gear after each stage. the pressure range from 21,178psi to 289,000psi in the final stage.

 

some smart guy did a calculate on a bike that travel 0-100km/h in 3.6sec. He assume the bike and rider weight about 400kg and the gear surface is about 1square inche. he got about 17,500psi on the gear during the above activity.

 

the pressure on the gear does not even excess the pressure in stage 1 test!!! so do you really need that level of protection in your day to day ride or your good old mineral oil will do?

[QuanIsHere]

yes mate. it all about marketing. we have no doubt their oil is very good but the question is do we really need that level of protection or just a simple inexpensive mineral oil will do? that the beauty of marketing, it make you think that either you get their oil or you risk wearing out your beloved machine.

 

for example in Amsoil motorcycle white paper, they did a gear test which suppose to show you that their oil protect your transmission much better then the rest. the gear test is make up of 13 stages with increasing pressure on the gear after each stage. the pressure range from 21,178psi to 289,000psi in the final stage.

 

some smart guy did a calculate on a bike that travel 0-100km/h in 3.6sec. He assume the bike and rider weight about 400kg and the gear surface is about 1square inche. he got about 17,500psi on the gear during the above activity.

 

the pressure on the gear does not even excess the pressure in stage 1 test!!! so do you really need that level of protection in your day to day ride or your good old mineral oil will do?

 

Lol which kisiao go and count the gear pressure! But not bad at least he made a good calculate! If not wrong last time mobil 1 promote a fully syn oil but in. The end was actually mineral oil added a few additive and claimed was fully syn. I like the part u said, if u dun use out product, u are risking of dmg! Haha surely is a pure market stratgy! They sound so fake! Mobil 1 video actually said that!

[QuanIsHere]

I mean mobil 1 their video got this indirectly telling u must use their product! Haha