[Blogs] Today while riding...

[kyo crane]

today while riding, was at a T-junction waiting to turn into a major road, so I turned on the signal light. then i realised sumthing - 8 cars, 4 on each lane, NOT A SINGLE ONE turn on the signal light. make me paiseh, but i feel at least i m doing the right thing.

 

Don't care what ppl think, as long you feel u r doing the right thing. Anyway it good to show where u r turning rather then just turn, cause some "Kayu" driver have no brain at all, and at junction their eye is for the girlsssss...... only.

[Orleng]

imho, signalling is a good habit to build into oneself. for me, no matter when, be it late at night or early in the morning, whether there are other vehicles or not, i make it a habit to always signal before anything. it's your only means of communicating with other road users (besides sounding the horn, high-beaming and flipping the bird).

 

if one gets into the habit of always signalling, it becomes an automatic response and doesn't really require any effort at all. simple laziness can kill (yourself or others).

 

i believe that it's only polite to do so. if others choose not to do so, it's their choice. i choose to be safe. at most, bulb burns out earlier, it's cheap to replace. switchgear wear-n-tear, also can be replaced. forgetting to signal or failing to when you should (e.g. got high speed overtaker tailgating behind you and you decide to go to the left to let him overtake, but don't signal cuz you assume he won't try to overtake on the left, might leave you in a nasty smashup if he decides to do just that when you change left w/o signalling).

 

yes, it might be redundant to signal when no cars are around, but if one builds into him/herself this habit of always signalling when making a directional change, the motion becomes ingrained and can be performed with little/no thought. just like checking blindspot!

 

my 2cents.

[aRcHeR]

i give you a picture, straight ahead of you is a big pothole... you turn handlebar to avoid it, i use the effects of counter steer to avoid it, i will negotiate the evasive action in a faster and smoother way, i.e: if you know what you are doing and understand how counter-steer works, for my case, im doing it consciously... same principle applies when u want to avoid a bong tard swerving into your lane....

 

lean in and turn your handlebars vs using the effects of counter steer, the latter method will be more efficient and faster.

 

using the effects of counter steer before entering a bend helps a rider to enter a bend faster and smoother, that is why moto gp rand sbk riders, professional riders all are hardcore users of counter steering...

 

what i mean by there is no need for any lean angle for counter steer to take effect, you can try "one-handed steering and just push or pull your grip at speeds above 30kmh and you get what i mean...

 

 

 

to put in in a more precise manner, you don need to lean in with much effort, the effects of counter-steer will cause you to lean in a faster and smoother way. it just comes naturally...

 

you don't turn your handlebars.. try turning them literally when you are on the move and prepare to kiss the tarmac.

[kyo crane]

bro! you hit the nail right on the head! this is what im referring to exactly!

 

i believe we all should master or being able to countersteer effectively, very useful on local roads filled with hazards (potholes, bongtards in cages, etc.)

 

i will not exactly advice countersteering with one hand unless you are quite experienced in it, we should always try to countersteer with both hands on handlebar. to be safe and stable. but you can really feel the counter steer if you only use one hand...

 

just a slight pull/push on handlebar and we can avoid obstacles in a fast, safe and effective way. no joke really. start trying it in an safe environment and you will understand the chimilogy of countersteering practically. for myself, im already using it effectively otr, siaming metal drain covers, foreign debris otr and vehicles cutting into my lane.

 

thanks bro scubasimon for taking time to post up this useful and interesting video on countersteering...

 

there are more related videos on counter steering so pls, take some time to view those helpful videos!

 

I don't know if it ture, but feel like different bike have their difference way of character for best turning, like sport bike turning handle bar will not really get u anyway, maybe a bit. Chopper normally they turn the handle bar more as compare to sport bike, because of the sturture of the bike itself. Motocross, they play with legs and handle bar.

I believe the type of tyre use also play a part.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Thank.

[JackOHJack]

UMost riders countersteer without even realizing it. When you lean in, you subconciously apply a bit of weight and input to that side of the bar you're leaning into.

 

exunctly my point as well.

 

so y not lean in straightaway? y countersteer to lean in?

 

i give you a picture, straight ahead of you is a big pothole... you turn handlebar to avoid it, i use the effects of counter steer to avoid it.

 

lean in and turn your handlebars vs using the effects of counter steer, the latter method will be more efficient and faster.

 

to put in in a more precise manner, you don need to lean in with much effort, the effects of counter-steer will cause you to lean in a faster and smoother way. it just comes naturally...

 

eh.. but i not saying i turn handlebar ma?

 

if there is a pot hole, what difference does it make?

a) lean to get out.

b) countersteer to lean to get out.

 

we seem to be talking abt the same things. that is

1) it is definitely wrong to turn handlebar to turn a bike

2) countersteering helps a rider lean in.

 

and my question is simply "why countersteer to lean in when u can lean in straightaway?"

 

personally, think it's rather impt to understand how counter-steering works. esp for the fast riders who love to corner.

 

biker goes in too hot for the curve and halfway through, freaks out and tries to "turn the handlebars into the curve" to turn more. all it does is countersteer yourself even wider. hence an unhappy meeting with the guardrail or concrete wall.

 

yes, you may say that you can just lean harder into the curve, but if you steer your handlebar in, it just defeats the purpose. and a slight poke of the handlebar in the correct counter-steering direction helps to get you through that over-enthusiastic corner. prolly not good to go in at those speeds again

 

i think it is important to understand how to manage bends as well. leaning in/ out will help, turning handlebar definitely will not help.

 

more importantly, dun over-qiong at bends la. like what u mentioned as well.

 

you don't turn your handlebars.. try turning them literally when you are on the move and prepare to kiss the tarmac.

 

jit tao fly. only for parking etc.

[zyrofillica]

i still dun understand how counter steer works. how does one go left while turning the bar right? I only understand low speed lean against turn, and high speed lean with turn

[SparkerS1]

aiyo, ride as per normal lor, y make till so confusing, wahaha

[JackOHJack]

if u can take all the words..

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering#How_it_works

 

aiyo, ride as per normal lor, y make till so confusing, wahaha

 

exunctly..

[Orleng]

i think it is important to understand how to manage bends as well. leaning in/ out will help, turning handlebar definitely will not help.

 

more importantly, dun over-qiong at bends la. like what u mentioned as well.

 

heh heh, yea, the bends are the killers and it's what one should master to survive! saying that, turning the handlebars as in counter-steering, has it's place in negotiating bends imho.

 

the meat of my illustration was that an inexperienced or mis-informed rider may instinctively turn the handlebars in the same direction as his path of travel in an attempt to "turn more" into the turn. even if they weren't taught that, it's prolly the most natural thing to do. "steer left to turn left mah". (ps: i am personally guilty of doing this, thankfully it was clear and no traffic was around, next thing i did was to brake, hehe.)

 

what that will only do is to achieve the opposite effect, because would be initiating a counter-steer, in the other direction, pushing himself wider into the kerb.

 

like i mentioned, when going into a fast bend, e.g. one of those on the expressways, try and turn your handlebar into the turn, you will suddenly pop up out of your lean and begin drifting wide.

 

conversely, if you were in a fast bend and you poked your handlebar away from the direction of the turn, your bike will suddenly dive and increase lean angle + head towards the inside of the curve. (of course don't try this if you're at max lean already).

 

 

there has been plenty of controversy and discussion over counter-steering / body-steering. either way works, but imho, counter-steering allows for a more abrupt change in direction. and like above, understanding which side to turn will assist in clearing any obstacles, especially mid-corner.

 

most impt is on those decreasing-radius, e.g. tightening curve entry/exit ramps on the expressways. e.g. if an oil patch is smack in the middle of the curve which you didn't see, you'd have to tighten your line alot more. it's alot easier to countersteer in than to lean in, not to mention, alot faster too.

 

can try yourself on a straight road. go at a nice consistent speed, e.g. 30kmph, and use the white stripes as obstacles. just push lightly on a handlebar on one side, your bike will immediately drop into a lean towards the side you push. of course, leaning the body helps the action.

 

what i'm saying is that either motion alone probably works fine. but understanding how they work in combination, can get you out of sticky situations more readily. it is NOT absolutely necessary or written in stone, but it's a useful tool to have in the metaphorical safety kit.

 

personally, i have avoided ending up as road decoration due to an oil slick in the middle of a lornie-pie entry ramp. as well as a car hood ornament when a car drifted out of his lane on a long fast curve.

 

Proficient Motorcycling and More Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough are 2 good books to read up on these concepts.

 

now, i am by no means an experienced biker and don't have that many years under my belt, but i love reading and experimenting while attempting to equip myself with more skills. so take what i say with a pinch of salt (for the salty old-timers who disagree with me). it's a discussion! no flames pls.

 

oh and i reiterate my stance, it's not that counter-steering or body-steering is better/worse. just that one should understand what they're about and avoid the above mentioned unintentional counter-steer into obstacles scenario. just know enough about how it works through experimentation in order to keep us all safe!

 

cheers n ride safe!

[xXxRatedxXx]

[yt]

[/yt]

[ahcaibiker]

anyway, i am a person who loves using the effects of counter-steering, each to his own riding style. not saying who is right or wrong.

 

understanding the concept and effects of countersteering and being able to execute it conciously at will indeed helps to get you out of sticky situations.

 

 

why professional riders in moto gp and sbk all are frequent users of counter steer? why don they just lean in and ignore the effects and use of counter steer?

there has to be a good reason right?

 

 

for me, i feel using countersteering gives me a more close and smoother control of my bike's riding line thru a bend. i can enter faster and exit faster out of the bend.

 

bro, orleng, seems you are thinking on the same wavelength as me! cheers!

[Orleng]

bro, orleng, seems you are thinking on the same wavelength as me! cheers!

 

haha, aye indeedy. a lot more control when one actively thinks of countersteering. helps to avoid cars veering off line in the middle of bends or oncoming traffic drifting into your face on long left-handers.

 

not to mention, good for avoiding those metal covers and potholes on the road! save your suspension! haha.

 

more fun to poke the handlebars and drop into a corner, can make more controlled tight turns under decent speed.

[ahcaibiker]

haha, aye indeedy. a lot more control when one actively thinks of countersteering. helps to avoid cars veering off line in the middle of bends or oncoming traffic drifting into your face on long left-handers.

 

not to mention, good for avoiding those metal covers and potholes on the road! save your suspension! haha.

 

more fun to poke the handlebars and drop into a corner, can make more controlled tight turns under decent speed.

 

 

maybe one day we can meet up to exchange pointers on counter steering!

 

 

ever since a friend of mine who frequent PG, ask me to go try it out... im hooked! so much fun to negotiate bends and siam obstacles, like no need effort one, this is the strength of using the law of physics for beneficial use!

[ahcaibiker]

this video explains exactly what i meant by just turning handlebar/leaning in VS using the effects of counter steer. there is a major difference once you are aware of it.

 

 

 

[yt]

[/yt] Edited February 6, 2010 by ahcaibiker

[JackOHJack]

understanding the concept and effects of countersteering and being able to execute it conciously at will indeed helps to get you out of sticky situations.

 

eh... im not disagreeing that countersteering is good.

 

just that to be thinking abt "Aiyah, shd turn left or right arh?!" in the moment of "excitement" can be costly, it would make a lot of sense to just lean in.

 

as deus puts it, and as i have personally experienced:

Most riders countersteer without even realizing it. When you lean in, you subconciously apply a bit of weight and input to that side of the bar you're leaning into.

 

so why go through all the trouble to train countersteering since by instinct when u lean in, u subconsciously countersteer as well. to begin with countersteering on tarmac shd not be done in a high degree. one simply turns the handlebar counter-direction ever so slightly.

 

it's not like u gotta specially train til purposely turn right to go left (as u would turn left to go left while parking).

 

 

 

 

 

anyhow, it seems that countersteer does help rider lean in, and leaning in does help rider countersteer. so in essence, we are talking abt the same thing. in this case, chicken can come first, egg also can come first..

 

bottomline, just use both la! since using either one will invariably lead to the other, then what's the diff?

[Orleng]

anyhow, it seems that countersteer does help rider lean in, and leaning in does help rider countersteer. so in essence, we are talking abt the same thing. in this case, chicken can come first, egg also can come first..

 

bottomline, just use both la! since using either one will invariably lead to the other, then what's the diff?

 

 

gd pts, totally agree with the similarities. no doubt they're the same thing.

 

it's just that understanding how it works might prevent dangerous situations, like the one i posted about going into corner and suddenly obstacle like oil patch or car in your path happens. cfm is lean to siam, but sometimes instinct is "aiyoh! not leaning fast enough! i also steer to siam!" (but steer the wrong direction, into the turn, end up go even further wide).

 

i'm thinking of it as sorta like firedrill. everyone also know to run for exit when fire break out mah, no need to train ppl to run or where to go, everyone already knows run for the door. but when fire comes, it's a matter of knowing the proper procedure and how to execute smoothly that might save lives. and it all comes with practice. or knowing what not to do, like taking lifts, etc.

 

so esentially, i agree with you, both are the same thing, active counter-steering and counter-steering by just leaning in. but when it comes to emergencies, it might be handy to have an extra option. or to know counter-steering enough that one does not try to "help" to turn by steering into the turn.

 

peace!

 

reiterate, it's not a matter of which is better and to train to turn better. it's to practice to understand how it works, so one does not do the wrong thing when it comes to emergencies!

[areal]

thanks orleng for the write ups..

had a go and realized countersteering really allows for a more rapid and effortless change in direction, wah push abit only bike straightaway respond

..seemingly goes against instinct but it works! kinda cool haha

[ahcaibiker]

my main point is why choose the harder option when there is an easier and more effective option?

 

leaning in/turning handlebar and leaning in Vs using counter steer to initiate leaning in.

 

the latter obviously is an more effortless, easier, most effective, faster and safer alternative. safe only when you know what you are doing...

 

just sharing on what i feel is a better and smoother way on swerving technique (countersteering) and a better way to enter a corner.

 

the reason on why countersteering is way better than just shifting body weight and leaning in is best explained by professional motorcycling riders always using the countersteering to initiate entry and exit out of chicanes and bends.

 

this is the best fact and evidence. just my 2 cents.

[IZECUBEZ]

I realise that I wasnt countersteering while taking my practical at the driving center. I only got to know of countersteering when I'm already on the road with my bike. Maybe when I sign up for my 2A, I'll try countersteering at figure 8

[Kioz]

TODAY WHILE RIDING..

 

was going to camp,

as usual early morning jams you know..lol.

anyways i was riding and this CISCO LCP Officer riding a while CB 400 bike

was infront of me riding very slowly causing all bikers

to be stuck que-ing behind him..

oh and did i mention, all of us were like squeezing in between cars..

 

anyways....

 

so i went to road shoulder for short cut,

den kena stop by that retard and

he was acting all bossy and all like a Traffic Police Officer..

well i still manage to get away with it la..

 

so my question is:

 

NOW CISCO officers have the right to catch Traffic Offense?

does that make them like Traffic Police on the road too?

[aRcHeR]

cisco dun have authorities on the road. unless they are LTA traffic marshal, or on duty doing escorts.

[Orleng]

thanks orleng for the write ups..

had a go and realized countersteering really allows for a more rapid and effortless change in direction, wah push abit only bike straightaway respond

..seemingly goes against instinct but it works! kinda cool haha

 

glad you found it useful =D. it's just a re-hash of other threads all over this board and elsewhere. makes for easier flicking of the bike into corners. no longer have to wrestle it into a turn aye? do actively practice doing it and it'll serve you well in times of need. and yea, it's definitely counter-intuitive initially, but when one gets the hang of it, it's fun to nimbly handle your machine. heh heh.

my main point is why choose the harder option when there is an easier and more effective option?

 

my sentiments as well. i kinda like to approach turns a little hot at times, and it used to be a pain in the ass the wrestle the bike down into a lean with bodyweight alone. when going fast, the machine has a nasty tendency to keep wanting to go straight. after messing around with counter-steering, it makes it effortless to get the bike to drop into a lean.

[JackOHJack]

but when it comes to emergencies, it might be handy to have an extra option. or to know counter-steering enough that one does not try to "help" to turn by steering into the turn.

 

peace!

 

reiterate, it's not a matter of which is better and to train to turn better. it's to practice to understand how it works, so one does not do the wrong thing when it comes to emergencies!

 

why choose the harder option when there is an easier and more effective option?

 

this is the best fact and evidence. just my 2 cents.

 

orkay orkay, peace -twist- i guess i was moody (sick) when i wrote all that. anyw, all the discussion got my backside itchy and i went to really experience trying both ways, safely of coz - (lean in then countersteer) and (countersteer then lean in). coz initially i have done em subconsciously, but neber register the split second effects..

 

today really try to feel the diff down to the split second. end up i find that to do the countersteer to lean in is really not very er.. intuitive.. coz dez a split second b4 turning, that the bike went the other way.

 

the most comfortable, that i found, was to countersteer and lean in almost at the same time. in this case, the split second feeling of going the other way was negligible and it felt very comfortable, my foot peg also felt very comfortable.

 

NOW CISCO officers have the right to catch Traffic Offense?

does that make them like Traffic Police on the road too?

 

dun think so. bad morning la him.

 

 

 

 

 

Today while riding!!!

 

bikes shd really switch on head lights all the time. during the scorching afternoon, there was a green sports bike behind me, w/o headlights. no prob, i mean, it's so bright, who cannot see him right?

 

malar eh zai! (who knows!) go into tunnel, first 10s eyes need to switch a bit (the tunnel is relatively very dark), "EH?! where is the bike?!" totally cannot see the fella.. until some time later..

 

 

EARLY WARNING!

 

nothing to do these few days lay off BKE, else jam until LP duar sueh liab! (basically means expect massive jams) especially towards jb direction, woodlands area.

Edited February 7, 2010 by JackOHJack

[SparkerS1]

I realise that I wasnt countersteering while taking my practical at the driving center.

 

u will not even realise when u countersteer, its a natural reaction:angel:

[DeusExMachina]

TODAY WHILE RIDING..

 

was going to camp,

as usual early morning jams you know..lol.

anyways i was riding and this CISCO LCP Officer riding a while CB 400 bike

was infront of me riding very slowly causing all bikers

to be stuck que-ing behind him..

oh and did i mention, all of us were like squeezing in between cars..

 

anyways....

 

so i went to road shoulder for short cut,

den kena stop by that retard and

he was acting all bossy and all like a Traffic Police Officer..

well i still manage to get away with it la..

 

so my question is:

 

NOW CISCO officers have the right to catch Traffic Offense?

does that make them like Traffic Police on the road too?

 

Seriously, if a Cisco clown signals me to pull over while on the road, I'll simply ignore him or throttle away while dismissing him with a backhand waveoff.

 

Idiot reject from the TP training course.