SBF Classic Vespa's Cafe 2009 / 2010

[Retro_King]

Calling all vintage Vespa owners out there, I urgently need to loan a classic scooter for a fashion shoot by MediaCorp.

 

Unfortunately, my own scoot is still in the workshop after my accident so need to ask you guys to do me a HUGE favour.

 

Interested parties please SMS me at 9008-0621. BTW, you will receive a small monetary token

[alvin80]

Ah Kau??? Veri good & humble man.

 

Old timers should noe him well...

 

Btw, ah joo is his disciple.

 

[GoofRider]

Hi guys, i finally send my vespa for painting and wiring. and now i'm looking for a place that can do a leather seat cover for my cover. i heard there's one shop at Jalan Besar that do a customize leather seat. can anyone enlighten me and kindly help me note down the address. if can i'll send it by this week.

 

cheers

 

PS: and how much the cost roughly.. dark brown leather. One seat.

[GoofRider]

Originally posted by hippo0@May 16 2006, 02:22 PM

ah kau i dunno..

but can recommend tong aik or ah joo to u..

My advice is do your wiring at Thong Aik.. thier wiring is really really good.. even thou its slightly ex.. but its worth it.. my bike is there now.

my wiring cozt me $165. but its worth it. its expensive also coz my bike is px150 using a sprint V handle.. coz i mod my vespa to classic.

 

for paint job.. Ah Kau doing it for $380 now.. excellent paint job.

the inner part of your side box or front box, will be spray by a lack hi-temp paint.

 

 

cheers!

[rae07]

Originally posted by Sharpey@May 17 2006, 11:14 AM

Rae07.... never heard of a Tong pipe... sounds like a fairytale to me....

 

If you've got a loss in compression you'll notice that the bike is much easier to kick start than normal....

 

You could get the compression tested just to be sure....

 

Perhaps though, you just need to get your pipe 'de-carbonised' to get rid of all the carbon that builds up over time and affects the flow of gases....'cos if you don't know when this was last done... its probably time to do it

oh...there ain't such thing as 'opened'/'tong' pipe eh? guess prevoius owner muz have gotten it wrong. anyway..thanx a lot for reply...i'll have it checked soon.

 

i'm plannig to do up my bike electricals. currently running without batt. would like to add one. where are the connecting points and how do i know if i'm running 6V or 12V? tried checking bulbs and all for rating but can't find any on the bulbs.

[hansray]

Hi guys...anybody have any idea where to buy 2nd hand glove box or new ones??? I goin to sent my Vespa for respraying and makeover soon...and wanna hope to add a glove box to my Vespa...THanks!!... (",)

[noize_11]

hi , im wondering whether you guys can help. recently after servicing my bike, whenever i pump petrol, it will take very long to kick start it. Sometimes i cannot even start so have to leave it there for some time then can kick start.i noticed that the petrol is leaking profusely. Can anyone enlighten me??thanks

[GoofRider]

Anyone? i need help from any of u guys on where to make my seat cover..

dark brown leather.. and how much roughly it cost.

 

thanks

[vigano]

Hi ... to all ...

Leong Kah Heng wkshop display rack finally ready for viewing... do drop by to "look look and see see" ok ... selling some rare items there too .. seats cover will arrive in a few weeks time ... custom quality work design design ... so do drop by, its behind Singapore Post at payar lebar MRT .... look for Hendra ...

[un-sith]

Originally posted by GoofRider@May 18 2006, 11:55 AM

Anyone? i need help from any of u guys on where to make my seat cover..

dark brown leather.. and how much roughly it cost.

 

thanks

there's a shop called "eugene" along jalan besar, opposite mcd area. quite popular. can try there.

[un-sith]

Originally posted by hansray@May 18 2006, 02:08 AM

Hi guys...anybody have any idea where to buy 2nd hand glove box or new ones??? I goin to sent my Vespa for respraying and makeover soon...and wanna hope to add a glove box to my Vespa...THanks!!... (",)

tong aik does sells 2nd hand glove box.

[un-sith]

Originally posted by hansray@May 18 2006, 02:08 AM

Hi guys...anybody have any idea where to buy 2nd hand glove box or new ones??? I goin to sent my Vespa for respraying and makeover soon...and wanna hope to add a glove box to my Vespa...THanks!!... (",)

tong aik does sells 2nd hand glove box.

[hansray]

Originally posted by un-sith@May 18 2006, 10:53 PM

tong aik does sells 2nd hand glove box.

thankss! btw, how much does 2nd glove box sell??? (",)

[Sharpey]

Taken from Scooterbbs.com (Author is an Australian who posts freqently in a number of forums....)

 

Si 24 mm Carb. Summary

A carburettor is simply a device for mixing fuel and air and delivering it to the engine. The Si 24 mm Carb. is a very simple carb. however it does differ to other carbs used in other scooters and motorcycles.

 

There are two 'circuits'. The idle or slow speed circuit and the main jet circuit. Both these two circuits overlap more so than many other carbs, which usually have three circuits ; an idle circuit, a needle jet for mid range and the main jet circuit.

 

Both the idle jet and the main jet on the Si feature an upper section that lets air in at a fixed rate, a lower section that lets fuel in and both this fuel and air mix together in the central mixer/atomiser tube.

 

The idle jet is a fixed jet. It either has to be swopped for a richer or leaner idle jet OR the mixture screw on the back of the carb. can be adjusted to control the flow of the idle mixture into the venturi.

 

The main jet stack can be altered in three ways, seperate air correctors, mixer/atomiser tubes and main jets are available.

 

The idle circuit works from idle right through to full throttle but works mainly in the 0 to 1/2 throttle range, tapering off between 1/2 throttle to full throttle but never actually stopping delivery of mixture! It's influence on the mixture between half and full throttle is not that great however. When you come off the throttle at high speed/revs, the only fuel and oil your engine is then getting will be from the idle circuit.

 

The main jet circuit works in the 1/3 to full throttle range. As you can see, there is significant overlap of both circuits.

 

The air corrector on the main jet stack and the top opening in the idle jet determine the flow of air to be mixed.

The main jet and the bottom part of the idle jet determine the amount of fuel to be mixed with the incoming air.

The mixer tube/atomiser and the middle part of the idle jet determine the amount of mixed fuel and air to go into the venturi of the carb to be burned. In the case of the idle jet, the mixture screw determines the amount of mixture from the idle jet to go to the venturi.

There is significant overlap in where in the throttle position the two mixture sources operate.

The first section describes how to adjust the slow speed or idle circuit and is followed by adjustment of the main jet circuit.

 

Neither should be adjusted in isolation because of their overlap.

 

Tuning the standard Si 24 Carb. Setting the mixture screw and idle

Tools required : 7 mm small spanner, or the specially modified NH spanner (see below) or in the case of a Vortex, a flathead screwdriver.

 

It is too simplistic to say "Set the mixture screw on the back of the carb. to 1.5 turns from closed." In practice it depends on a whole host of factors which include the weather, state of tune etc as to what the settings will be.

 

The Si E 24mm carb is found on all Vespa P 200s, save for a few models in the USA where the 20mm was used for a short while. The Si G version is found on the T5. The Si G version has different jetting, a different slide profile (larger cut aways allow more air in at idle and hence it can be set for more fuel, for a 'crisper takeoff').

 

It has a shorter body height that allows a bigger air filter and hence a quicker throttle response! Newer versions are advertised as 26mm, they actually have a 25.5mm venturi. You'll need to match the lower carb. box that sits on the cases to take advantage of the larger venturi! A test a few years ago, Si G 25.5mm V's Si G 24mm in Scootering Magazine by Taffspeed, showed no performance enhancement on a T5. The article was biased in that:

 

1. The carb box lower wasn't opened out for the 25.5mm carb!

 

2. The jetting wasn't altered!

 

3. Had the 25.5mm carb. been compared to the Si E 24mm on the PX200 and not the Si G on the T5 then there would have been a difference I believe!

 

The idle speed screw is located to the right of the main jet stack in the above photo. You can't miss it, it's very tall and on a standard PX sticks through the top carb box and can be adjusted without taking the carb box top off!

 

The mixture screw on the back of the carb determines the amount of mixture from the idle jet to go to the venturi. The idle jet supplies fuel 100% of the time the engine is running, however it's contribution to the overall mixture between half and full throttle is small.

 

 

Many people have modified this mixture screw that is plainly too long to adjust easily, by cutting it in half and adding a flathead screwdriver grooved top. The Vortex Carb does just that on the left!

 

The other alternative is to modify the adjusting spanner!

 

Take a cheap, forged 7mm spanner, heat it up on either a gas stove flame or BBQ flame, holding it with a pair of pliers. When it gets hot, simply use another pair of pliers to bend it into shape, as shown below. Thanks to Nick for the NH Si Carb Adjusting Spanner!

 

To adjust the mixture screw hold the open end, and use the closed end coming from above, with the downwards section of the spanner pointing from above onto the fuel screw, to adjust. You will find you can adjust the fuel screw 1/4 of a turn at a time. It's much easier than a standard 7mm spanner!!!

 

The Vortex fuel screw is easy to adjust, it's shorter, has a flathead screwdriver thread and is easy to get to. Use a screwdriver rather than an 7 mm spanner. Also, make sure that you still use the rubber bush on the carb box where the fuel screw slots through the lower carb. box. This rubber bush is not designed to keep air or weather out, it's job is to stop the fuel screw vibrating loose! Make sure it's on!

 

To set the mixture screw correctly, here's what you need to do :

 

Start the scooter and go for a 1-2km run to warm the engine up.

 

1. With the engine running on the stand, take the engine side panel off. Turn the idle speed right up, the long screw with the flathead screwdriver fitting that pokes out of the carb box top, turn clockwise in.

 

The engine will be racing now!

 

2. Immediately turn the mixture screw on the back of the carb all the way in, the engine will get choppy and the idle will drop. On PX200 models it will require an 7mm spanner, there's not much room in there.

 

3. Immediately then turn out the mixture screw from closed in 1/4 turn increments, the idle will increase and the engine will start to smooth out. Take a few seconds wait between each 1/4 turn out. Count the number of turns as you open the fuel screw out.

 

4. You'll get to a point where the the engine will have smoothed out and the idle stops increasing when you turn out the mixture screw. This is close to where it should be set.

 

5. Adjust the idle speed back down to an acceptable running level. Then listen to your engine when you blip the throttle.

 

6. If the engine 'bogs' and feels flat when you blip the throttle it is probably set too rich. If the engine 'hunts' and takes more than 2 seconds to come back to a steady idle after blipping the throttle, it is probably too lean. A lean idle that 'hunts' the revs will make a 'pip, pip, pip sound.'

 

You should be able to blip the throttle, the engine should rev. clean and it shouldn't either bog, or 'hunt out the setting'. It should rev. and return to a good idle within 1-2 seconds.

 

7. Make a small adjustment here if neccessary. Then adjust the idle speed slightly.

 

8. On tuned Vespas, if it takes more than 4 complete turns, then pop in a richer idle jet, and repeat. This is the smaller jet on the left. The PX200 runs a standard 160/55 idle jet. The T5 runs a richer 100/50. The richness of the idle jet is the ratio of the two numbers, the lower the number, the richer the idle jet. The 100/50 is 2.0, the 160/55 is 2.9. The 100/50 is therefore richer.

 

If it takes less than 2 turns on a tuned Vespa, consider popping in a leaner idle jet and repeat.

 

On a standard PX200, with an Si E Carb. there should be no reason to change the idle jet of 160/55 unless you have done some tuning work. This could include fitting a genuine expansion chamber system where the 160/55 idle jet may be too lean. Concentrating solely on the main jet may not be good enough because of the huge overlap with the two circuits.

 

In colder climates you will find that the mixture screw needs to be set at more turns out, ie richer to cope with the dense cold and greater oxygenated air entering the carb. In warmer weather it will need to be set less rich as the air will be less oxygenated.

 

You may find that a standard PX200 will only need to be set at 1.25 turns from out in Queensland all year round but in a Tasmanian winter it may be at 1.5-1.75 turns from out. On tuned PX200s the settings will be very different and could probably be in the range of 2 to 3 turns from out, depending on the tune and conditions!

 

The Si 24mm carb. has two types of throttle slide. The Si E found on the PX200 has smaller cutouts compared to the slide on the Si G carb. found on the T5. The throttle slide cutouts allow air to pass through and mix with the fuel at idle. The T5 G carb. with it's larger cutaways allows more air in at idle compared to the Si E cutaway. This will also have some effect on takeoff as it will enable more air in and hence with the jetting, more fuel. This is the reason why the Si G carb has a richer idle jet than the Si E carb.

 

Setting the Mid Range and Main Jet

Firstly, as was stated earlier in the setting the fuel screw and idle section, there is a huge overlap between the components on the Si carb.

 

Main Jet Stack:

 

Air Corrector

 

This is the hole that a set amount of air comes in to mix with the fuel coming in. The larger the number, the more air is delivered. A 160 air corrector is therefore 'leaner' than a 140 because it has a larger air hole and lets more air in. Changing the air corrector will affect the mixture throughout the rev range from 1/3 throttle to full throttle!

 

Atomiser/Mixer Tube

 

This is where air from the air corrector and fuel from the main jet mix before going to the venturi. Moving from a BE3 to a BE4 mixer tube reduces the amount of mixture from the main jet stack to be introduced into the venturi to mix with straight air from the inlet. This reduction is caused by the BE4 simply having fewer holes for the mixture to pass through. So a smaller amount of mixture goes to the venturi where it is mixed with the normal amount of air coming through the carb throat, thus producing a leaner running condition. Therefore, the BE4 is 'leaner' than a BE3.

 

Main Jet

 

This allows a set amount of fuel into the atomiser/mixer tube to exit the carb and out the spray bar into the venturi then into the case inlet. On the Si Carb. the fuel exit on the main jet is a metric size. Eg a 116 main jet has an exit hole of 1.16mm. The larger the number, the 'richer' the main jet. A main jet of 118 is therefore richer than a 116. The main jet stack has its effect from about 1/3 throttle to full open. This is a much wider range than most other carbs that have three jet circuits and not two, like the Si.

 

Summary

 

As you can see, there is a huge overlap between the two circuits that supply fuel/air to the venturi!!! Many people merely concentrate on the main jet when tuning but fail to look at the idle circuit, which overlaps. An example would be someone putting an expansion chamber on a PX200. They usually up the main jet by 2 or 3 points but fail to increase the richness of the idle circuit. Many engine seizures happen in the low to mid throttle range, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions..........

 

 

'The Castle'

 

Vortex Carb.

When tuning a Vespa, many people simply slap on a bigger carb. as well as an exhaust and upjet.

 

Some people slap on a 28 or 30 mm side draught carb, with a view that more is better. Then at somewhere between 80% throttle and full throttle in fourth gear, the same scooter, if well tuned may suffer from fuel starvation and require a fuel pump to be fitted! Your fuel economy will go down considerably, making it difficult on runs to travel from one town to another without worrying where the service stations are!

 

At the same time you also lose the oil injection capability of the standard Si E/G Dellorto carb! You then have to carry in your toolbox 2 x 1 litres of two stroke oil! Valuable space I say, space better occupied by either tools or 750ml bottles of naturally conditioned beers!

 

So what is the answer? Can I forget the side draught carb. with it's fuel guzzling antics and free up some space in the toolbox for some better products?

 

Well, yes you can! The answer is the Vortex 28 mm Carb from Hot Rod Scooters in the USA. http://www.hotrodscooters.com/

 

The HRS Vortex Carb. utilises a velocity stack (bell mouth) that increases airflow into the carb. The theory is, the more air you can get in, the more you can increase the fuel in and then perform!

 

This system has been used in Kart Racing circles for a few years now.

 

The Vortex Carb. is a standard 25.5mm (earlier versions were a 24mm) Si G modified carb. The Vortex allows you to run your standard PX200 set up with auto lube. The Vortex comes in 24, 28 and 32 mm sizes, all through the 25.5mm venturi. For a PX200 the 28 and 32 mm models are neccessary.

 

The Vortex carb. runs the Si G slide. Takeoff is crisper and quicker due to the large air cut outs on the slide compared to the standard Si E slide on the PX200. This will mean you may have to run the richer idle jet from the T5, the 100/50, supplied with the Vortex. It's definately also worth ordering the slightly leaner 120/50 and 140/55 to give further options. The fuel screw may well need to be turned out slightly to allow more of the atomised mixture from the idle jet circuit into the venturi. (see earlier section)

 

Because of the modified air box on the Vortex, you will need to also up the main jet by 2-3 points. Pop in a rich main jet and work down, doing 3/4 throttle plug chops in third gear.

 

The Vortex comes with foam that has been glued into the trumpet shape on the air box. Although it has a support section beneath it, there is a risk it could come lose. Automotive foam and a 60mm hose clamp make for a better structure.

 

'The Castle'

[emrun]

what an info. i use 24mm carb too. but noe nothing about it, like u do.

[rae07]

say..will a carb rebuild work well with stock piston? cos on most vespas, they do both together.

[rae07]

ok..it's me again...back with irritating questions. wonder if anyone changed a px headset to a sprint(square) headset before? i'm trying to figure how the electricals gonna run and is there a way to mod signal switch into the headset?

[un-sith]

Originally posted by hansray@May 20 2006, 05:53 PM

thankss! btw, how much does 2nd glove box sell??? (",)

hmm u gotta ask them, cause 2nd hand sometimes is totally faded paint or even no paint. So u need to add ur paintjob too.

[vigano]

change handle bar ? sure no prob .. just need some mod in the wiring

[rae07]

Originally posted by vigano@May 27 2006, 06:24 PM

change handle bar ? sure no prob .. just need some mod in the wiring

hey..thx for response...finally got that figured. i'm currently stuck trying to wire up the throttle cable and the gear shift cables.

 

anyway...is there other places for vespa accessories other than the shop @ jln besar? or any tt sells 2nd hand? i'm looking for the cable holder @ gear bars. i believe they look like this.

 

http://www.scomo.net/images/catalog/vespa/06/0/mediumimage/V06-058.jpghttp://www.scomo.net/images/catalog/vespa/06/0/mediumimage/V06-067.jpg

 

thx in advance!

[Sharpey]

Theory and practice are two diff things... I might know the theory, but then with spanner and screwdriver can be as blur as a long dead sotong...

 

How do you mean re-build Rae-07... to rebuild means to take apart and put back together again right?? If so.. then not much, maybe a bit smoother... but no big diff...

 

If you want to modify / upgrade your carb... then yes it will work well with a stock piston (or "top-end" as they call it)

 

If your bike is a Px150, you will have a 20/20 carb

If your bike is a PX200 you will have a 24/24 carb (bigger)

 

Both bikes can benefit from a bigger carb... I have put the vortex V28 on mine... see http://www.hotrodscooters.com / http://www.scooterpartsdirect.com (retrorocket section)

 

Px150 owners can just upgrade to a 24/24 for less money... like S$80

P.s.... mine is for sale if anyone is interested...

[rae07]

oops..guess i've used the wrong term AGAIN. actually meant upgrade.

 

will a 24/24 be an overkill on a px150? ie. minimum performance improvement for the extra jetting?

[Sharpey]

A 24/24 will not be overkill... many people who run 150's in the states (theirs are called Stellas [re-badged indian LML150]) upgrade to 24/24

 

A bigger carb will allow your engine to breathe easier... i.e. use more fuel and air.... so you'll get the most benefit if you let it exhale easy too... i.e. get your pipe "tonged" to allow gases to flow better....

 

There is a little bit of work involved in getting the new carb to fit... but it won't be hard for someone like Mr Wee to do... Basically you need to enlarge the hole in the carb box where the carb shoots fuel into the engine. (the box with the black cover that the carb lives in) This is because the hole on the 24/24 is slightly bigger (like 2mm) than on the 20/20... like I said not a difficult job if a mech does it....

 

The other thing you'll need to do is get an understanding of jetting... because a bigger carb will need bigger jets to allow all that extra air and fuel to get to your engine...

 

I highly reccomend you signing up at Stellaspeed.com where you can read about other 150 owners who have done this... also Stellastats.com is a great resource for seeing the different setups these 150's have (will help you get an idea of which jets are safe to start with...)

 

A word of warning....This is adictive..... legally addictive

[Sharpey]

A safe start would be around these....

 

Idle jet 55/160

Main jet stack.... Aircorrector 140, Mixer BE3, Main Jet 110

Fuel Screw 2 turns out....

 

Don't rush out and buy any jets though... you can have some of my old ones....

 

Am going to Tong Aik tommorow... will find out how much they'd charge you to install it.

[Sharpey]

My scoot still has a stock topend btw.... I really haven't found it necessary to put a malossi on... All these mods will help get the best out of the stock cylinder... you could call it "Super Stock"