Small bike on PG

[edwinnth]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 3 2006, 03:43 AM

I dunno abt cubs so I'm inclined to believe you, since you're a cub racer.

But tell me one thing. If they're using slicks, why did they cut them?

 

As for sportbikes, the last I heard from an experienced rider was that trackday tyres will suffice. They cost less, they heat up faster, they last longer, they offer enough grip for the weekend warrior, plus they're still road legal.

We are talking from a trackday guy point of view here after all, not pro racer.

The key here is not from whose point of view or which tyre would suit who better. The key is that the bikes would be better if they are on slicks.

 

As u were saying that standard bikes will not make full use of such tyres effectively. That is totally misleading.

 

Do u think u will have better timing if u slapped on some fresh slicks on your standard frame and road going suspension R1?

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by edwinnth@Jan 3 2006, 08:48 AM

The key here is not from whose point of view or which tyre would suit who better. The key is that the bikes would be better if they are on slicks.

 

As u were saying that standard bikes will not make full use of such tyres effectively. That is totally misleading.

 

Do u think u will have better timing if u slapped on some fresh slicks on your standard frame and road going suspension R1?

 

 

So what you're suggesting here is that a roadgoing set up bike will function better on slicks. I'd say maybe.

 

Depends on how u ride too. Ride 5 to 8 laps at standard track session, pit in relax, talk c0ck sing song, then go out for another 5 to 8, repeat X 4... I think I'd be better off with treaded track tyres. Slicks might not even heat up to appropriate temp to be fully utilized. So I wouldn't just say lap times will improve automatically by just slapping on slicks. See usage pattern too.

 

 

BTW, tell me why do those guys cut their slicks for anyway?

[edwinnth]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 6 2006, 12:38 AM

 

So what you're suggesting here is that a roadgoing set up bike will function better on slicks. I'd say maybe.

 

Depends on how u ride too. Ride 5 to 8 laps at standard track session, pit in relax, talk c0ck sing song, then go out for another 5 to 8, repeat X 4... I think I'd be better off with treaded track tyres. Slicks might not even heat up to appropriate temp to be fully utilized. So I wouldn't just say lap times will improve automatically by just slapping on slicks. See usage pattern too.

 

 

BTW, tell me why do those guys cut their slicks for anyway?

Slicks will perform better on dry roads. Much better than any treaded tyres. But what about a race in Nov where weather is unpredictable or a partially wet track? Cut slicks are a safer bet.

 

Hope that answers ur question.

 

As for pitting for talk c0ck sing song, drinks, fatique, balls itchy or whatsoever....that wasn't the discussion in the first place. The discussion was about "Our road-going suspensions and flexy un-reinforced frames could never make use of such tyres effectively enough."

 

If ur point was "Slicks dun make economical sense as i like to ride 5laps and pit to talk c0ck sing song, jerk off, jerk my friend off".

Or if it was "i think slicks can't be fully utilised as i dun ride fast and am going as slow as i can so i dun heat up my tyres so i can conserve them for my everyday commuting."

 

That i can fully understand. But the point to bring across is that standard frame bikes and road going suspension can perform more effectively with slicks(cut or not)on contary to ur idea of "Our road-going suspensions and flexy un-reinforced frames could never make use of such tyres effectively enough".

 

And may i ask what is flexy un-reinforced frames?

[DeusExMachina]

Flexy as in less rigid/stiff, not as in "flex" flexy.

 

Let's see.... I remember reading an article off a Brit mag (think it was either PB or FB) that said something along the lines that slicks, which have harder carcasses to deal with the speeds that they were designed for, work a lot better with a stiffer setup, including suspension and a stiffened frame ...i.e. racebikes... , and that trackday tyres would be enough for streetbikes. It also mentioned that though road going bikes could use slicks, without a lot of setting up there was not much noticeable gains in tested lap times.

 

 

The article made a lotta sense to me. That, plus the pricetag, the lifespan, and the laps needed to hit operating temperature. For the trackday guy, it's a foregone conclusion unless he has deep pockets.

 

 

Besides, I never said that lap times wouldn't improve with using slicks. Don't misquote me on that. I said that road going bikes wouldn't be able to maximize slicks (as compared to...), which would be true, wouldn't you say?

[edwinnth]

U are seriously straying way off course...

 

From a discussion of whether slicks could work on bikes with standard frames and road-going suspension to a discussion that includes price, durability, laps needed to hit operating temperature, riders that like to talk c0ck between sessions, depth of rider's pocket..........and wonder how many more scenario u might come up with.

 

The fact is there are races being held where riders uses slicks on their standard frames and roadgoing suspension like the superTT. Are those teams simply wasting their money on slicks?

 

Question: Are they also not able to use the tyres effectively like what u mentioned in the intial post (Our road-going suspensions and flexy un-reinforced frames could never make use of such tyres effectively enough).

 

---->(Besides, I never said that lap times wouldn't improve with using slicks. Don't misquote me on that. I said that road going bikes wouldn't be able to maximize slicks (as compared to...), which would be true, wouldn't you say?)

 

I quoted nothing about u saying that lap times wouldn't improve with using slicks. I have seriously never heard of the term "overkill" being used to describe certain tyres on certain bikes. Or in layman's term...."these tyres are too good for ur bike!" Everyone on the track are looking for better grip and slicks are the best money can buy.

[spiderman]

ya i also think slicks should be easier to improve timing in the dry... it has more contact patch then those road tyres, only semi slicks road tyre r closer. Nowadays bike frame technology is already very high to minimize flex and so r the tyres getting more sticky every year. So the prob now is that can u even max out yr bike as a whole in the first place. Rider is more important to lower track time rather then components but of cos with good components it will be easier to lower the track time. IS THE RIDER! CHEERS!

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by edwinnth@Jan 7 2006, 06:03 AM

U are seriously straying way off course...

 

From a discussion of whether slicks could work on bikes with standard frames and road-going suspension to a discussion that includes price, durability, laps needed to hit operating temperature, riders that like to talk c0ck between sessions, depth of rider's pocket..........and wonder how many more scenario u might come up with.

 

The fact is there are races being held where riders uses slicks on their standard frames and roadgoing suspension like the superTT. Are those teams simply wasting their money on slicks?

 

Question: Are they also not able to use the tyres effectively like what u mentioned in the intial post (Our road-going suspensions and flexy un-reinforced frames could never make use of such tyres effectively enough).

 

---->(Besides, I never said that lap times wouldn't improve with using slicks. Don't misquote me on that.  I said that road going bikes wouldn't be able to maximize slicks (as compared to...), which would be true, wouldn't you say?)

 

I quoted nothing about u saying that lap times wouldn't improve with using slicks.  I have seriously never heard of the term "overkill" being used  to describe certain tyres on certain bikes. Or in layman's term...."these tyres are too good for ur bike!" Everyone on the track are looking for better grip and slicks are the best money can buy.

 

 

Slicks r the most effective tyres on the track. But now ah, I seek your opinion.

 

Can stock road bikes take corners as quickly/confidently, as race-prepped bikes using the same slicks?

 

U dragged in cub race and the Japan GP. Sorry, we were thinking more along the lines of trackday use. Being just a guy who goes to the track once a month or so I'm still more inclined to go along with a few magazine journos that did a road test more than I would you of course, no matter how many races you've participated in. No offence really, just my preference.

 

 

Topic off course? Dun think so. Cost is always a factor and never out of context. Cashflow is not unlimited no matter what the best money can buy may be. My friend initially asked a question abt using slicks. I'm inclined to advise my friend against wasting money on slicks on the grounds that our bikes would never fully use them. Besides, dun think we have the intention of towing the bike to and from PG.

[edwinnth]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 7 2006, 12:17 PM

 

Slicks r the most effective tyres on the track. But now ah, I seek your opinion. Can stock road bikes take corners as quickly/confidently, as race-prepped bikes using the same slicks?

 

U dragged in cub race and the Japan GP. Sorry, we were talking abt trackday use. Being just a guy who goes to the track once a month or so I'm still more inclined to go along with a few magazine journos that did a road test more than I would you of course, no matter how many races you've participated in. No offence really, just my preference.

 

 

Topic off course? Dun think so. Cost is always a factor and never out of context. Cashflow is not unlimited no matter what the best money can buy may be. My friend initially asked a question abt using slicks. I'm inclined to advise my friend against wasting money on slicks on the grounds that our bikes would never fully use them. Besides, dun think we have the intention of towing the bike to and from PG.

----->Slicks r the most effective tyres on the track. But now ah, I seek your opinion. Can stock road bikes take corners as quickly/confidently, as race-prepped bikes using the same slicks?

 

Do i really have to answer that? That is seriously a dumb question. But i'll seriously give an unbiased opinion.

 

There is no comparison. Why not say compare a WSB bike and a motogp bike? It can't be compared. Maybe u should start making this discussion more constructive by comparing the timing and confidence lvl of the same bike(or at least same class)with and without slicks.

 

Ok so topic is now on course....but includes more agenda. It was initially on whether slicks would work on road going bikes to......

 

Slicks would (not)/work better if i got a deeper pocket?

What the magazines might suggest?

My strange pitting habits?

 

So i guess it is no longer just whether slicks are better or not but they must be coupled with one more more of ur agendas to rate it? If that is the case, i'll probably start hearing ppl saying " slicks??!!!! Those are sh1t man, they dun work cos i cannot afford them".

 

How logical!?!

 

U dun have to believe in my race experiences which at the local cub prixs. I've raced prolly every road race events that smsa has to offer in the last 3 years. But that is nothing compared to the race experiences of veterans like Peter Tan or Victor. The learning never ends, but at least i am not gonna shut myself off from comments thinking that reading a few mags will make me a better and more knowledgeable rider.

 

And may i ask how reading of bike mags have made u a better rider? Given u better choice of tyres? In terms of timing? Has it brought u down to the 1.40s? Or are u still in ur 2.10s?

 

I am more inclined to learning from the locals with experience than some angmos sitting down at their desk 5000miles away.

 

 

Seriously i got ur idea that slicks dun work due to cost ineffectivness and pitting habits. But i rather give a unbiase view and talk about them on performance level and not cloud their real abilties with my monetary status.

[edwinnth]

Originally posted by spiderman@Jan 7 2006, 11:34 AM

ya i also think slicks should be easier to improve timing in the dry... it has more contact patch then those road tyres, only semi slicks road tyre r closer. Nowadays bike frame technology is already very high to minimize flex and so r the tyres getting more sticky every year. So the prob now is that can u even max out yr bike as a whole in the first place. Rider is more important to lower track time rather then components but of cos with good components it will be easier to lower the track time. IS THE RIDER! CHEERS!

Hey alex. How have u been? Hope i didnt get ur name wrong. Still practicing?

[spiderman]

Originally posted by edwinnth@Jan 7 2006, 01:34 PM

Hey alex. How have u been? Hope i didnt get ur name wrong. Still practicing?

how did u know my name? u r?

[spiderman]

ya i'm still practicing man... might be joining this yr race for 400 and below...

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by edwinnth@Jan 7 2006, 01:09 PM

 

There is no comparison. Why not say compare a WSB bike and a motogp bike? It can't be compared. Maybe u should start making this discussion more constructive by comparing the timing and confidence lvl of the same bike(or at least same class)with and without slicks.

 

 

Seriously, I dunno if u've always had a thing for me or not?

 

But since we're here, let's clarify things. I'm not shutting ur opinion or anyone's out. I just said I'm more inclined to believe road tests, especially since they include empirical data gained thru tests, and not just opinions of some ang mohs far far away.

 

I'll be honest. Talking abt tyres alone, I'll concede 2 u that slicks provide the best grip in the dry. But I'm still questioning whether they would be fully utilized (read as: COST EFFECTIVE) on a road bike. That was my simple point from the start.

 

I don't think ppl will ever say slicks are sh1t 'cos they're expensive. The logical answer would be "application". U race, u use them, cool for you. I dunno if it's wise to slap them on just for a 1 or 2 hour track session. Maybe next time, I'll have to add in all the disclaimers and "agendas" just in case you'd get on my case again.

 

As of late, I think my timing is now somewhere in the 2.0X's. Nothing much to you prolly, but I'm working on it happily.

[spiderman]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 7 2006, 01:57 PM

Seriously, I dunno if u've always had a thing for me or not?

 

But since we're here, let's clarify things. I'm not shutting ur opinion or anyone's out. I just said I'm more inclined to believe road tests, especially since they include empirical data gained thru tests, and not just opinions of some ang mohs far far away.

 

I'll be honest. Talking abt tyres alone, I'll concede 2 u that slicks provide the best grip in the dry. But I'm still questioning whether they would be fully utilized (read as: COST EFFECTIVE) on a road bike. That was my simple point from the start.

 

I don't think ppl will ever say slicks are sh1t 'cos they're expensive. The logical answer would be "application". U race, u use them, cool for you. I dunno if it's wise to slap them on just for a 1 or 2 hour track session. Maybe next time, I'll have to add in all the disclaimers and "agendas" just in case you'd get on my case again.

 

As of late, I think my timing is now somewhere in the 2.0X's. Nothing much to you prolly, but I'm working on it happily.

hi there... wat bike u riding?

[edwinnth]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 7 2006, 01:57 PM

Seriously, I dunno if u've always had a thing for me or not?

 

But since we're here, let's clarify things. I'm not shutting ur opinion or anyone's out. I just said I'm more inclined to believe road tests, especially since they include empirical data gained thru tests, and not just opinions of some ang mohs far far away.

 

I'll be honest. Talking abt tyres alone, I'll concede 2 u that slicks provide the best grip in the dry. But I'm still questioning whether they would be fully utilized (read as: COST EFFECTIVE) on a road bike. That was my simple point from the start.

 

I don't think ppl will ever say slicks are sh1t 'cos they're expensive. The logical answer would be "application". U race, u use them, cool for you. I dunno if it's wise to slap them on just for a 1 or 2 hour track session. Maybe next time, I'll have to add in all the disclaimers and "agendas" just in case you'd get on my case again.

 

As of late, I think my timing is now somewhere in the 2.0X's. Nothing much to you prolly, but I'm working on it happily.

Geez...i dun have a thing for u. U are still attached ain't u? And i am more interested in the opposite sex.

 

Thanks for agreeing that slicks provide the best grip. That is the only thing i wanna bring across.

 

And for those angmos 5000 miles away.....They rated BT-010 and 012ss as a 4-5stars tyre, as proper track tyres. Geez i cant agree that those are ever on par with SCs or RSs. But well.....they have a job cos ppl believe in them.

 

I would not wanna get on ur case. It could have been made more concise. Young forumers could be reading and sharing info with their peers. U will prolly start hearing young riders go....our bikes cannot use slick cos our suspension and frame made it so. There is seriously something wrong with that.

 

Congrats on closing in on the 2.0 mark. It is a big milestone for many riders. Any timing means somethin to me...any improvement is an improvement.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by edwinnth@Jan 7 2006, 02:42 PM

Geez...i dun have a thing for u. U are still attached ain't u? And i am more interested in the opposite sex.

 

Thanks for agreeing that slicks provide the best grip. That is the only thing i wanna bring across.

 

And for those angmos 5000 miles away.....They rated BT-010 and 012ss as a 4-5stars tyre, as proper track tyres. Geez i cant agree that those are ever on par with SCs or RSs. But well.....they have a job cos ppl believe in them.

 

I would not wanna get on ur case. It could have been made more concise. Young forumers could be reading and sharing info with their peers. U will prolly start hearing young riders go....our bikes cannot use slick cos our suspension and frame made it so. There is seriously something wrong with that.

 

Congrats on closing in on the 2.0 mark. It is a big milestone for many riders. Any timing means somethin to me...any improvement is an improvement.

 

Really? Damned... talk abt sending wrong signals!

 

 

Anyway, seriously. I know you've been racing these few yrs and really envy n respect you for having the opportunity and the drive to pursue your passion. I can't even afford the time or extra cash to do it.

 

I see that the mags now classify the tyres. Race, trackday, supersport, blah blah. If I'm not wrong, BT010s would fall in the supersport, while the 012SS should fall into the trackday class. They probably rated them according to the performance expected in their categories.

 

Anyway, I never disputed the facts that slicks were the best in the dry, nor did I say that road bikes couldn't use slicks. Just that whether it would be worth putting on the slicks 'cos a stock bike might not be set up right to maximize the potential of such grippy tyres. The rest, well... already posted.

 

 

Yeah. Best I have so far is mid 2.0s as measured by onboard timer. But still sometimes fall above 2.10. Problem now is consistency. Gotta work on being consistent before I think of improving timing. Am currently working on ID-ing braking and turning markers on the track. I think that's my current problem.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by spiderman@Jan 7 2006, 02:29 PM

hi there... wat bike u riding?

 

Spidey, we've met b4 la. Riding a bluish silver R1. Always come w/ my fren on his 999.

 

I still remember u giving me advice on hard braking techniques 'cos I almost ran off T1 from overly late braking and not blipping enough throttle for the downshift.

[spiderman]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Jan 7 2006, 04:46 PM

Spidey, we've met b4 la. Riding a bluish silver R1. Always come w/ my fren on his 999.

 

I still remember u giving me advice on hard braking techniques 'cos I almost ran off T1 from overly late braking and not blipping enough throttle for the downshift.

oic... haha ok.. keep up the hard work...

[Benguin46]

urm.. hi guys.. jus wanna say dont fight.. u guys sound angry.. why so angry.. ahah! cheer up. n if im not wrong the topic here shld be "Small bike on PG, Is it that ridiculous, "racer-wannabe"?" hehehe.. spidey.. help me cool down he situation abit.. awhwa

[jingle]

eh.. Small bikes (cupkia) should use what tire pressure on track? Normal?

[spiderman]

Originally posted by jingle@Jan 9 2006, 01:05 PM

eh.. Small bikes (cupkia) should use what tire pressure on track? Normal?

it really depends on yr tyre's working temp and yr feel on the bike itself... as a guide on dry weather the pressure should be a bit lower than road... on wet might be the same as road pressure or even slightly higher...

[NightPhantom]

actually i use normal road pressure u noe.. 200/200 front and rear.... last time i pump lower... but i feel no diff.. so i go wif normal loh.....

[jingle]

Originally posted by NightPhantom+Jan 10 2006, 05:58 PM-->

QUOTE (NightPhantom @ Jan 10 2006, 05:58 PM)

actually i use normal road pressure u noe.. 200/200 front and rear.... last time i pump lower... but i feel no diff.. so i go wif normal loh..... [/b]

[Wayang]

yeah.. i tried street pressure settin on the track b4.. juz to test if the tyres can stil grip.. seems to work well.. in fact tat day i had wat was probably the best trackday of my current ride to date.. heh heh

 

of cos.. i seriously dun recommend goin on to the track wif street pressure.. i did it becos i felt my bike was relatively light (hornet250) and when i lowered the air pressure in my rear tyre the rollin resistance seemed to affect my straight line speed quite abit..

[rongx]

thats a sweet pic of the white hornet going low! i wish i could do that. somehow feel my bike ergonomics not really helping out. or mayb its juz the tyres. hahahahahaha.

[fleaz]

i'm riding a phantom now. i'm interested to go down to the track and i know phantom isn't exactly the bike to bring down to the track. so should i get a 125cc/150cc sportbike now or wait till 2a and get a 400cc sportbike?