Possible problems and solutions?

[crazydj]

Hi guys!

 

These are my bike's symptoms:-

1) When i electric start my bike, the cranking sound of the starter comes on, but the engine does not turn.

2) The intensity of the cranking sound from the starter motor sounds the same as everyday.

3) I electric start my bike almost everyday since i got my bike and rarely used the kick starter.

4) Engine only manages to start 20% of the time.

5) Kick start only requires 1-2 kicks for the engine to turn on.

6) Pulling the choke is almost never required to turn on the engine, even on a cold, rainy morning.

7) Battery is about 12.8v to 13.0v normally, but when i rev my engine, it goes up to 16v.

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of what could be wrong with my bike and possible solutions? Thanks.

[bernardk]

Did you add on anything or change anything recently before the problem?

[crazydj]

Did you add on anything or change anything recently before the problem?

 

No. My bike is 100% stock. The electric start problem came a few months ago, then slowly, needed more cranks, then everyday, slowly become worst, and now i need like 3-4 sets of 5 cranks ("EH-HEH x 5") minimum to start the engine, if lucky.

[CSV]

wah crazydj, your description of the cranking is damn super power! very easy to visualise the sound. LOL.

 

hmm, think the fault lies in the starter motor? old age?

[crazydj]

Hmm, but the sound of the starter motor sound the same. Every day. The intensity of the sound is also the same. The sound and "power of the sound" was the same everyday since i got the bike. Could it be the gearing from the starter motor to the engine never "makan"? (gears worn out)

[bustop]

i'm not sure but i think its just batt weak.

[crazydj]

Battery tested. Fully charged as well. Battery weak can give strong cranking sound meh?

[liquidy]

spark plug? u shld check it out. or perhaps ur choke lever is pulled. or jammed slightly. is there a lot of white smoke?

[Orleng]

As mentioned previously on a similar thread you posted, possible that the one way clutch for the starter is kaput. that or gear teeth. there was also a link posted which leads to troubleshooting procedures.

 

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/302012-Kick-start-more-effective-than-electric-start

[bernardk]

should be spark plug or spark plug cable.

[mild_slevin]

if kick starter able to work... spark plug should be OK. Would ignition coil play some part to this mystery?

[li_gangyi]

the cranking sound of the starter comes on, but the engine does not turn.

 

Should be 1 way and/or gear engagement as stated.

[crazydj]

spark plug? u shld check it out. or perhaps ur choke lever is pulled. or jammed slightly. is there a lot of white smoke?

 

should be spark plug or spark plug cable.

 

Spark plug new, choke is okay and working fine and there is no smoke at all.

 

As mentioned previously on a similar thread you posted, possible that the one way clutch for the starter is kaput. that or gear teeth.

 

Starter kaput means that the starter wont move or make sound? Because the starter motor still can turn like usual.

[crankcase]

Starter kaput means that the starter wont move or make sound? Because the starter motor still can turn like usual.

Not the starter motor, but the bit that links the motor to your engine. Since you're able to kick start, it's possible that your starter motor is just turning idly without engaging the engine. If kick start is ok but electric start is not, this would be a good place to start checking.

 

Does anybody know if there's a difference in the ignition circuit that comes into play via kick start vs electric start? Or is the rest of the system the same for both?

[li_gangyi]

Does anybody know if there's a difference in the ignition circuit that comes into play via kick start vs electric start? Or is the rest of the system the same for both?

 

It should be the same for both, but with a weak battery or bad wiring, you may be dragging the voltage during starting with the starter low enough to not give adequate spark to ignite the mixture.

[S750WP]

Your carbon brush in the starter motor is worn off, replace it and you will be able to start normally.

[crazydj]

Your carbon brush in the starter motor is worn off, replace it and you will be able to start normally.

 

What does the carbon brush do? If the brush worn out or missing, the starter motor cannot even turn on right?

[ezzyoiler]

stater motor do not die off just like that...they will signal to you..a protest ...

ie.. eg..now you need several attempts via the electric start switch...the symptom will get worse until one day instead of just replacing the carbon brush u may need to change the motor itself..

[S750WP]

What does the carbon brush do? If the brush worn out or missing, the starter motor cannot even turn on right?

 

Google how a DC motor work and you will know the function of the carbon brush. cheers.

[crazydj]

Google how a DC motor work and you will know the function of the carbon brush. cheers.

 

I understand how they work, but if brushes are worn out or totally missing, the motor will move very slowly/with less intensity or not even move at all right? Because the thing is that, my starter motor can "turn/crank" just as powerful as before. The sound, vibration and feel of the starter motor turning has not changed since i got my bike. Feels exactly the same.

 

If carbon brush worn out/missing, the starter motor still can turn meh?

[S750WP]

I understand how they work, but if brushes are worn out or totally missing, the motor will move very slowly/with less intensity or not even move at all right? Because the thing is that, my starter motor can "turn/crank" just as powerful as before. The sound, vibration and feel of the starter motor turning has not changed since i got my bike. Feels exactly the same.

 

If carbon brush worn out/missing, the starter motor still can turn meh?

 

If your starter motor is able to turn, check your cylinder compression for leak.

 

But I still highly suspect its the worn off carbon which is making poor contact with the commutator and its not turning at its full intensity to crank your engine, probably you will see a weak compression when you perform compression test.

Edited October 19, 2010 by S750WP

[crazydj]

If your starter motor is able to turn, check your cylinder compression for leak.

 

Hmm... Let's say i can kickstart my bike with one light kick or use my hands, is it safe to say that there are no leaks?

[S750WP]

Hmm... Let's say i can kickstart my bike with one light kick or use my hands, is it safe to say that there are no leaks?

 

Thats why I highly suspect it your carbon brush worn and your starter motor has to crank 20 times to create the compression to fire up your engine. Check your compression for your cylinder using kick start vs electric start if you really want to confirm before replacing the carbon brush.

[crazydj]

Thats why I highly suspect it your carbon brush worn and your starter motor has to crank 20 times to create the compression to fire up your engine. Check your compression for your cylinder using kick start vs electric start if you really want to confirm before replacing the carbon brush.

 

I don't quite get this. Even if the cyclinder compression is different, it can also be other thing like the gear from the starter motor to the engine never mate properly?

 

I want to ask ah, in general, the kickstart and the starter motor, are they connected to the same mechanism to turn the crank shaft?

 

One more thing, how come for my bike, i must pull the clutch when i electric start? If i don't pull the clutch, the starter motor refuses to turn on or turn on for one "eek". If i pull the clutch in, the starter motor will turn. This was present when i first got my bike. Even the YBRs at CDC i remember they teach us to pull the clutch to turn on the engine. Apparently new YBRs you can electric start them without pulling in the clutch, but as they get older, must start to pull. Why ah?

Edited October 19, 2010 by crazydj

[crazydj]

EDIT: Good video. See 11:34 mins. Starter motor "whines" but doesnt engage engine. But in the case of motorbikes, the solenoid does not shove the starter motor gear into the engine right? Its always permanently there?

 

"Wheeeeeeee x continuous" is different from "EH-HEH x5"? Because mine makes the second sound.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxjPpytfnv0