What gives? Instant gratification or future cosy retirement?

[Throttle]

in what sense? you mean unable to pay loans and such?

 

when your income flows less and slower than your debt obligations, and you dont have reserves.

 

in other words, when you become like the United States of America.

[kzone]

the issue is about not biting more than you think you can chew.

 

If this is the only discussion, then its clear.. dont think most of us wants to take on more than what we can afford. & those who does, wud not take part in the discussion.

 

However, if there any bros here who shun loans with the mindset that all loans are evil, then its also the wrong mindset cos even small loans can be beneficial if done correctly.

[Throttle]

If this is the only discussion, then its clear.. dont think most of us wants to take on more than what we can afford. & those who does, wud not take part in the discussion.

 

However, if there any bros here who shun loans with the mindset that all loans are evil, then its also the wrong mindset cos even small loans can be beneficial if done correctly.

 

The thing is some people think they can afford when they actually cant.

 

Using loans for property is a must, especially with more than one property.

Optimising tax positions. But using loans to fund your everyday things creates a false sense of ability.

And a false state of constant.

 

If one is clear minded and aware of that, it shouldnt be a problem.

 

But here comes the wake up call.

Do you really own your life or does the bank own it?

Edited August 9, 2011 by Throttle

[Throttle]

If this is the only discussion, then its clear.. dont think most of us wants to take on more than what we can afford. & those who does, wud not take part in the discussion.

 

However, if there any bros here who shun loans with the mindset that all loans are evil, then its also the wrong mindset cos even small loans can be beneficial if done correctly.

 

The thing is some people think they can afford when they actually cant.

 

Using loans for property is a must, especially with more than one property.

Optimising tax positions. But using loans to fund your everyday things creates a false sense of ability.

And a false state of constant.

 

If one is clrar minded and aware of that, it shouldnt be a problem.

 

But here comes the wake up call.

Do you really own your life or does the bank own it?

Edited August 9, 2011 by Throttle

[cougar]

Yes, throttle is spot on, the crux of the problem is not with loans for housing, without loans housing how to be affordable? Even 30 years ago, a $30,000 flat also need loans. The problem is how can a $30,000 annual wages worker commit to a $300,000 flat over 30 years? That's 10 times his annual income. These are very precarious money numbers, and any default, the poor guy still have a very large debt to clear, else his flat will be repossess. And the govt keep saying its affordable, its affordable, obviously they are not thinking straight.

 

Unlike a car, in Sg transport context, its not a necessity, its a luxury, any price ask for, its ok. People dont sleep, bath in cars. But some still commit over and over again, despite the hardships, why didnt they think of the house first? Over 30years, the kind of money spent can easily be more than a house. And the trend is, these $30,000 a year salary worker can commit to both!!! I piangz.

[Throttle]

Yes, throttle is spot on, the crux of the problem is not with loans for housing, without loans housing how to be affordable? Even 30 years ago, a $30,000 flat also need loans. The problem is how can a $30,000 annual wages worker commit to a $300,000 flat over 30 years? That's 10 times his annual income. These are very precarious money numbers, and any default, the poor guy still have a very large debt to clear, else his flat will be repossess. And the govt keep saying its affordable, its affordable, obviously they are not thinking straight.

 

Unlike a car, in Sg transport context, its not a necessity, its a luxury, any price ask for, its ok. People dont sleep, bath in cars. But some still commit over and over again, despite the hardships, why didnt they think of the house first? Over 30years, the kind of money spent can easily be more than a house. And the trend is, these $30,000 a year salary worker can commit to both!!! I piangz.

 

a $30,000 per year salary worker (with no rich family backing) CANNOT afford and should not buy a car in Singapore.

That is becos the price to pay in exchange for other essentials of a $30,000 per year salary worker is too great.

 

but to each his own.

 

as for me, I will never pity or lend money to anyone who fails to manage his personal financials.

[Finrod]

Point in life, never do with a loan unless u cant help it.

[kzone]

so we not talking abt loans but rather abt ppl who earns too little to afford cars or other luxuries? I missed the point of the discussion then.

[Throttle]

so we not talking abt loans but rather abt ppl who earns too little to afford cars or other luxuries? I missed the point of the discussion then.

 

yes correct.

we are not really talking about loans per se.

 

we are talking about earning too little to afford but yet want to have so take loan to gratify with the material items.

 

something like Jack neo's money no enough movie.

Edited August 9, 2011 by Throttle

[Jehuty]

Talking about loans, I don't want to sign anymore Faustian contracts, seeing how Singapore is being overrun with FTs, corrupt officials, high cost of living and rigid inflexible systems in place. Maybe its time to save and find loopholes.

[scubasimon]

to each their own i say. i don't think one value system is inherently better than the other. neither do i think delaying satisfaction or gratification will make you better off in the future. if you want to wait till later to enjoy the fruit of your labour, go ahead. if you prefer to enjoy the fruit now, more power to ya. at the end of the day, we all have our own value systems and preferences.

[cougar]

if there is some statistics done to see the true pictures, is sg overrun by debt ridden people or are majority really that rich? if its all debt ridden, then we are in trouble of sub-prime, if its the latter, i feel safer long term here.

[GuiNNeSS]

if there is some statistics done to see the true pictures, is sg overrun by debt ridden people or are majority really that rich? if its all debt ridden, then we are in trouble of sub-prime, if its the latter, i feel safer long term here.

 

This statistic, considers CPF?

[cougar]

This statistic, considers CPF?

cpf can safely say peg to housing loans. but the things like cars, renovations, study loans, even furniture and appliances, consumer index may point to sellers' sales as good. but all not paid up in cash is debt with the banks. only MAS knows the banks debt figures.So I'm can only guess, when things becomes worthless and everybody needs money, then we see if its a problem.

[Throttle]

if there is some statistics done to see the true pictures, is sg overrun by debt ridden people or are majority really that rich? if its all debt ridden, then we are in trouble of sub-prime, if its the latter, i feel safer long term here.

 

i do believe that the debt factor is high in Singapore.

and it is only getting higher.

 

the more developed a country and the more advance it is in its financial capabilities, the higher the debt will be.

 

just consider Singapore in the 80s and Singapore today.

the people of today use debt much more freely and willingly.

the system allows it and the pride and ego of people drive up demand for debt.

 

the lucky thing that Singaporeans still have is high employment.

Every Singaporean has a job basically. so they leverage on that job and spent speculative income.

they have to keep up with the Joneses, they have to have a car becos their neighbor has one.

They have to wear a Branded watch even if it means paying instalments, they must buy a condo, even though the living space will be smaller and their debt will double. They dont care. They have a job.

at least for now.

 

so Cougar, whether it's the latter or the former, shouldnt determine how "safe" you feel. you decide how safe you yourself want to feel.

[cougar]

thanks to the properties prices, i have relief myself of mortgage of my resident home. but high debt individuals definitely not my concern, its these ego problem of these high debt herd that is adding inflationary pressures to my bike coe renewal, its a whammy for me. ok other than luxury goods, even home appliances also can buy with hire purchase, also affect me what, despite strong sgd, why every thing still so expensive in sg? and these things are made in china, dam it.

 

I've recently been doing quite a bit of online purchase because of our strong sgd. but only for small items, that's a good thing.

Edited August 29, 2011 by cougar

[bluelabel]

Xrated is a chick? Didnt know that, I tot it was a boy all while. Hello Xrated. :>

[bluelabel]

Throttle what do you think about Singapore practicing Full-On Capitalism. Is it good or bad for our Society.. Or do you disagree that we dont practice that. Like to hear your input. I was watching a documentary recently Called, Capitalism, A love affair... And it says that Capitalism is the main reason for U.S economy to be in shambles. etc. It mentions that the Big boys can easily come in an edge out the small fry, Be it Local/Foreign companies/Corporations and there is no protection on American's Interest and Capitalism has been sold as a good thing. It seems like Singapore is also following in the footsteps of US.

Edited August 29, 2011 by bluelabel

[bluelabel]

I also noticed quite a no. of my friends buying Things like Computers, tv or other gadgets using installments..

 

I think i would rather just rent a hdb home then be in debt for the next 30/40 yrs just to pay it off.

Edited August 29, 2011 by bluelabel

[Demon]

I also noticed quite a no. of my friends buying Things like Computers, tv or other gadgets using installments..

 

Blame Best, Courts, Harvey Norman...etc, they make everything seem so affordable. For a few dollars a week, one can own the lastest and biggest LED TV

 

I think i would rather just rent a hdb home then be in debt for the next 30/40 yrs just to pay it off.

 

It depends.

If you rent, it has to be cash whereas if you buy, then it can be financed entirely with your CPF. Somewhere down the road, the HDB will definitely be your wisest investment.

 

I don't think anyone ever lost money on HDB in the long term.

[bluelabel]

Quite true you have a point there. But the problem with me is, Im self-employed so i dont have cpf.. I tot of putting some money into my Cpf every month.. But i didnt do it cos i wont get back the money when i want to fully retire so i have to just be discipline enough in saving money, Which is a very hard thing for me Since im Single and dont have any commitments.

[Demon]

Quite true you have a point there. But the problem with me is, Im self-employed so i dont have cpf.. I tot of putting some money into my Cpf every month.. But i didnt do it cos i wont get back the money when i want to fully retire so i have to just be discipline enough in saving money, Which is a very hard thing for me Since im Single and dont have any commitments.

 

I have friends who are permanently based overseas, and using the rental income from their HDB, they have fully paid their mortgage within 15 years, and now waiting for the right tine to sell it off, renounce their Singapore citizenship, cash out all their CPF, and buy a Cessna

[bluelabel]

Smart move...Just like the Singaporean girl with irish background. She throw the SIngapore citizenship just to get her CPF money back just so she can go and Study in the US. but lucky for her she has an Irish Mom.

 

Question.. Do you get back your cpf $$$ once you have got a new passport or when you say I dont want to be a Singaporean.. So you can at least take all the money and show up at some 3rd world country and apply for Citizenship(Showing the Cash in hand), Cos thinking bout it.. Its not easy to just go an apply for Citizenship in other countries. I only know that applying for India Passport is easy for an Indian.(Indians born Overseas and have Overseas Passport) Thats what i have been hearing, Its the only country that gives leeway to people of the Same Race.. Other then that, I dont know of any country that is so easy to apply for citizenship, Inc. Malaysia/China. P.R might be easy but if you dont have the cash in Hand and is of a certain age, Your odds of getting P.R is quite slim. Thats what i think la.. Whats your thought?

[cougar]

that's the bummer, its so easy for others to get PR here, and so difficult to get PR other than here. all our PR dont need to show a stack of cash, and qualification is questionable. that's gross inefficiency in sg system. the people are blind to this.

[Throttle]

Throttle what do you think about Singapore practicing Full-On Capitalism. Is it good or bad for our Society.. Or do you disagree that we dont practice that. Like to hear your input. I was watching a documentary recently Called, Capitalism, A love affair... And it says that Capitalism is the main reason for U.S economy to be in shambles. etc. It mentions that the Big boys can easily come in an edge out the small fry, Be it Local/Foreign companies/Corporations and there is no protection on American's Interest and Capitalism has been sold as a good thing. It seems like Singapore is also following in the footsteps of US.

 

i believe that there must be a balance in everything we do.

so a mixed social system with focus on capitalism in general seems to be the least of the evils.