Michelin Pilot Sporty tyre!

[ben1112]

come on... give credit when it due:shy:

 

How do you know for sure if you are a superior rider than others? All I dare to claim is I can make superior tyre assessment than you do. And I do happen to use both tyres before over the course of ownership on multiple bikes.

 

I concur with the others with regards to the pale performance of pilot sports in wet conditions.

[RaidoN]

How do you know for sure if you are a superior rider than others? All I dare to claim is I can make superior tyre assessment than you do. And I do happen to use both tyres before over the course of ownership on multiple bikes.

 

I concur with the others with regards to the pale performance of pilot sports in wet conditions.

 

Have been using this sporty tyre quite a few mths.. On wet conditions, the performance and grip is like 70% lost.. I engine brake also can skid abit.. But on dry weather different story already.

[Isopropyl]

How do you know for sure if you are a superior rider than others? All I dare to claim is I can make superior tyre assessment than you do. And I do happen to use both tyres before over the course of ownership on multiple bikes.

 

I concur with the others with regards to the pale performance of pilot sports in wet conditions.

 

where is the sense of humour in this chap? give that man a beer:cool:

[crazydj]

where is the sense of humour in this chap? give that man a beer:cool:

 

No one, i repeat, no one, wants to joke about safety unless you have a death wish.

[crazydj]

where is the sense of humour in this chap? give that man a beer:cool:

 

No one, i repeat, no one, wants to joke about safety unless you have a death wish.

[Isopropyl]

No one, i repeat, no one, wants to joke about safety unless you have a death wish.

 

so i put it in another way. i have very lousy riding skill and therefor i don't have problem with this particular tyre. no problem mate. as long as it make more sense to you and you are happy. cheers:shy:

[ben1112]

where is the sense of humour in this chap? give that man a beer:cool:

 

Are you even trying? It's not even remotely funny.

[crazydj]

where is the sense of humour in this chap? give that man a beer:cool:

 

No one, i repeat, no one, wants to joke about safety unless you have a death wish.

[crazydj]

Its like using many different rifles with the same type of ammunition.

 

So using an M16 with an ACOG scope with the same bullets as using an AK47 with an ACOG scope and see which bullet grouping is more tighter downrange. So the one with the M16 has better skill?

 

What rubbish logic. Every bike, like every gun is different and no matter if you use the same bullet or tires, as long as the bike or rifle is different, you will get different results. Don't forget, even a single modification on your rifle will cause it to perform differently when shooting. Same like bikes. My stock chain compared with the DID chain gives me very different performance characteristics.

[Isopropyl]

Are you even trying? It's not even remotely funny.

 

yes. I tried hard. Sorry it didn't work out for you:)

[crazydj]

yes. I tried hard. Sorry it didn't work out for you:)

 

Me neither.

[Isopropyl]

Its like using many different rifles with the same type of ammunition.

 

So using an M16 with an ACOG scope with the same bullets as using an AK47 with an ACOG scope and see which bullet grouping is more tighter downrange. So the one with the M16 has better skill?

 

What rubbish logic. Every bike, like every gun is different and no matter if you use the same bullet or tires, as long as the bike or rifle is different, you will get different results. Don't forget, even a single modification on your rifle will cause it to perform differently when shooting. Same like bikes. My stock chain compared with the DID chain gives me very different performance characteristics.

 

well, if u can't handle tat weapon,go nearer to the traget. In bike context, u reduce yr speed. Wheather it a curve or traffic light if u ride at a suitable speed it is relatively safer. Tat wat defensive riding is all abt. When riding skill is mention don't just think of rider scraping their on Knee on the track. Think of riding defensively as the most important ones.

 

If you think it machine tat is causing the different in result, old explain to me the difference between spark and ybr tat cause the different in performance. You can add in rxz too as it is a friend of my tat is riding tat bike who recommended me tat tyres. Science pls. Don't assume.

 

Btw, old quote me on the part where my joke is throw at safety. Don't worry, I didn't edit any posts. Take yr time.

[Isopropyl]

My phone like to edit pls to old. Do ignore it:cheeky: hell of a time typing on touch screen phone.

[crazydj]

well, if u can't handle tat weapon,go nearer to the traget. In bike context, u reduce yr speed. Wheather it a curve or traffic light if u ride at a suitable speed it is relatively safer. Tat wat defensive riding is all abt. When riding skill is mention don't just think of rider scraping their on Knee on the track. Think of riding defensively as the most important ones.

 

If you think it machine tat is causing the different in result, old explain to me the difference between spark and ybr tat cause the different in performance. You can add in rxz too as it is a friend of my tat is riding tat bike who recommended me tat tyres. Science pls. Don't assume.

 

Btw, old quote me on the part where my joke is throw at safety. Don't worry, I didn't edit any posts. Take yr time.

 

Not in every condition you can go close to the target. Same like riding. At that moment in time, the ball is not in your court and you have to play according the the rules of the others on the road. Crap la, even not cornering, the Pilot Sporty on straight road also can slip on the painted road markings. Want to change lane due to other drivers pushing out of the lane also can slip on the straight road markings for example. Or during a long corner, when the cars try to squeeze past you, an RXZ with the exact same Pilot Sporty tires would perform better as he has more power and control as compared to the less power available on a YBR.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Same tires, but different bikes would result in different handling characteristics. It may be easier on a kapcai, but harder on a sports bike. Even if we compare the same bikes with the same tires, the modifications on the bikes differ. The Jintan box i used to have allowed me to go slightly faster but the Givi box of a 3L more capacity made the back of my bike more sluggish. Even different brads of chains and sprockets made my bike perform differently when cornering. The tire size also make a difference. 18" vs 17" tires would affect the handling.

 

End of the day, even the most scientific test would be having two people with the exact same riding skill, with the same bike and modifications, but one is very small and skinny and another is tall and muscular would result in two, very different results.

 

Now I use my Metzeler Tires ME 22, i can corner faster, sharper and tighter in the wet, never slipped on the painted markings before and i've used it longer than my sporty.

[Isopropyl]

Strange. I don't have much problem of being forced to go by other rules. i wonder why:)

 

May I know how does a more powerful bike make a particular tires safer? How much more does one bikes need in order for it to be safer?

 

I am not comparing apple to orange. I asking a very specific question on data and figure of a few mentioned bikes why do U think one is better than the other when using a specific tires so tat my lack of problem with pilot sporty is indeed due to the different in bikes. So far U just mentioned very general example without going into the specific different.

 

I still waiting for the quote on tat I make a joke out of safety.

[crazydj]

Strange. I don't have much problem of being forced to go by other rules. i wonder why:)

 

May I know how does a more powerful bike make a particular tires safer? How much more does one bikes need in order for it to be safer?

 

I am not comparing apple to orange. I asking a very specific question on data and figure of a few mentioned bikes why do U think one is better than the other when using a specific tires so tat my lack of problem with pilot sporty is indeed due to the different in bikes. So far U just mentioned very general example without going into the specific different.

 

I still waiting for the quote on tat I make a joke out of safety.

 

Okay. You win.

[Isopropyl]

Okay. You win.

 

no price for that isn't it and i don't seek that. i was asking geniue questions for learning.

 

like that part on power which i really don't understand.

RXZ = 15kw @ 8,500rpm

spark = 8.45kw @ 8,500rpm

ybr = 7.5kw @ 7,500rpm

 

taking in account a not so good pair of tyres have lower coefficients of friction and assume the figures above is consistent without factoring the reduce in power due to old age of the bike etc. μ = F / N. so the greater of force, the higher chance it will slip. i just don't understand the relationship between power and ease of handling for a tyres with lower coefficients of friction?

 

sadly my engineering training have not allow me to be able to tell why the different in handling. i can only make general assumption. for example ybr is the shorter and heavier amount the 3bikes and hence lower CG? of course i have no way to verify the weight distribution. for 2b bikes, unlike comparing to bigger bikes, it is much more harder to understand for me as the figures is pretty close and it quite unexpected for me to be told that their handling characteristics is off by so much. i only have hand on experience for 2 of the 3 bikes and it seem pretty ok for me although i do agree spark have the most comfortable positioning for me maybe due to getting use to it.

[crazydj]

no price for that isn't it and i don't seek that. i was asking geniue questions for learning.

 

like that part on power which i really don't understand.

RXZ = 15kw @ 8,500rpm

spark = 8.45kw @ 8,500rpm

ybr = 7.5kw @ 7,500rpm

 

taking in account a not so good pair of tyres have lower coefficients of friction and assume the figures above is consistent without factoring the reduce in power due to old age of the bike etc. μ = F / N. so the greater of force, the higher chance it will slip. i just don't understand the relationship between power and ease of handling for a tyres with lower coefficients of friction?

 

sadly my engineering training have not allow me to be able to tell why the different in handling. i can only make general assumption. for example ybr is the shorter and heavier amount the 3bikes and hence lower CG? of course i have no way to verify the weight distribution. for 2b bikes, unlike comparing to bigger bikes, it is much more harder to understand for me as the figures is pretty close and it quite unexpected for me to be told that their handling characteristics is off by so much. i only have hand on experience for 2 of the 3 bikes and it seem pretty ok for me although i do agree spark have the most comfortable positioning for me maybe due to getting use to it.

 

YBR is the tallest and the heaviest of the 3 bikes, resulting in a high higher CG, fyi.

 

Anyway, your argument stems from the theoretical, engineering aspects of it. Mine looks at it from the larger picture and centers around the idea that there are too many numerous factors which will lead to an inconclusive result. The high number of comments disapproving the tires and recommending others instead shows that although the tire may appear to be excellent on paper, the real world use and application of it is sub par.

 

The power values dont really mean a thing because firstly, no one rides all the time at those engine rpms. Secondly, the rpm values are different to start with. As for me, the YBR and the RXZ feels the same, only difference is because of the engine, so the riding style is different. The Spark has smaller 17" wheels and the handling characteristics are much more different from the 18" wheels, street bikes.

 

In addition to that, the YBR, compared to the other 2, is front heavy. Very heavy. This is worse with the soft front forks of the YBR. When you brake hard, the whole front suspension will fully compress, then the tires, then if it cannot compress anymore, your wheel will lock. Compare this with the relatively balanced CG of the RXZ where you can easily pop wheelies.

 

What i am illustrating here is that, yes, the tires may have similar characteristics in the lab, but when you put them on different bikes, with different factors and different road conditions, you are going to get an inconclusive result. Don't forget that every tire is also manufactured in batches, with different quality of raw materials and additives available at that point in time, resulting in slightly different tire characteristics. A few years back, when i was using the tires, the front was manufactured in 2008 and the back was manufactured in 2009, the textures of the wheels were different. The front was harder and smoother compared to the back which was much softer and slighter "rubberier". Theoretically, they should be almost identical. Fast forward to 2011, my Metzeler Tires ME 22 was significantly more "rubberier" and much softer and although the back and front had slight differences to its feels, i suppose the tolerances at Metzeler for those tires were tighter, resulting in better consistency of quality throughout.

 

In a nutshell, same model tires on different bikes, with different modifications, handling characteristics, rim size and many other numerous factors will end up with too many results, rendering the results inconclusive. What we can learn from this is that, the many of those here who have used the tires on their respective bikes found that it was not a fantastic tire to start with and there are much better choices out there.

[ben1112]

Did i miss something? What's the question again let me give it a shot answering.

[altya]

Hmm, I tink my CBF150 is the highest among all? My rim is 18" for heaven sake, haha....

 

I have a 48L Kappa box with bag and rain coat/first aid kid inside and usually i ride with a pillon, i tink my CG shld be the highest among the few bikes u mention. I am alr on my 2nd pair of Pilot Sporty and I totally NV experience any of the "sliding" issues that u all facing regardless of wet or dry.

 

I have used the woodlands ave 2 SLE exit daily which is a bend with plenty of white lines/strips and even during wet weather, I can still go in and out with around 60-70km/h, no slipping issue either....

 

Wonder why so many diff bike with same tyre have so many diff experience..... But I support the theory that each bike have diff handling I guess... Thats e only reason i can find to explain this issue...

[ben1112]

YBR is the tallest and the heaviest of the 3 bikes, resulting in a high higher CG, fyi.

 

Anyway, your argument stems from the theoretical, engineering aspects of it. Mine looks at it from the larger picture and centers around the idea that there are too many numerous factors which will lead to an inconclusive result. The high number of comments disapproving the tires and recommending others instead shows that although the tire may appear to be excellent on paper, the real world use and application of it is sub par.

 

The power values dont really mean a thing because firstly, no one rides all the time at those engine rpms. Secondly, the rpm values are different to start with. As for me, the YBR and the RXZ feels the same, only difference is because of the engine, so the riding style is different. The Spark has smaller 17" wheels and the handling characteristics are much more different from the 18" wheels, street bikes.

 

In addition to that, the YBR, compared to the other 2, is front heavy. Very heavy. This is worse with the soft front forks of the YBR. When you brake hard, the whole front suspension will fully compress, then the tires, then if it cannot compress anymore, your wheel will lock. Compare this with the relatively balanced CG of the RXZ where you can easily pop wheelies.

 

What i am illustrating here is that, yes, the tires may have similar characteristics in the lab, but when you put them on different bikes, with different factors and different road conditions, you are going to get an inconclusive result. Don't forget that every tire is also manufactured in batches, with different quality of raw materials and additives available at that point in time, resulting in slightly different tire characteristics. A few years back, when i was using the tires, the front was manufactured in 2008 and the back was manufactured in 2009, the textures of the wheels were different. The front was harder and smoother compared to the back which was much softer and slighter "rubberier". Theoretically, they should be almost identical. Fast forward to 2011, my Metzeler Tires ME 22 was significantly more "rubberier" and much softer and although the back and front had slight differences to its feels, i suppose the tolerances at Metzeler for those tires were tighter, resulting in better consistency of quality throughout.

 

In a nutshell, same model tires on different bikes, with different modifications, handling characteristics, rim size and many other numerous factors will end up with too many results, rendering the results inconclusive. What we can learn from this is that, the many of those here who have used the tires on their respective bikes found that it was not a fantastic tire to start with and there are much better choices out there.

 

HP figures tell only 1/2 the story. Torque figures and curves gives more clues.

 

Tyre comparison in the first place shouldn't even involve different bikes. Should be different tyres on the same bike, bike as 'constant'. What makes different bikes handle differently encompasses a large number of factors. I do not claim do be an expert but what i can think of is weight dist, rake angle, frame design/material, etc etc. We should not go there. Let's just stick to comparing tyre A to B.

 

 

 

It does not take a rocket scientist to evaluate a consumer product. To have a good enough test of pilot sport in the wet,

 

1.ride yr bike at constant speed,

2.lock rear brakes,

3.observe how far it skids.

4.do the same for tyre B.

 

Pretty damn simple and good enough for any layman test to tell how yr tires perform in the wet aint it?

 

Generally speaking a good tyre model will perform well on any bike, it's DESIGNED to do so by the manufacturer.