Hydrogen bike

[Terrible One]

Saw this on BBC last night.. Hope it can go further then 100miles per tank soon to be practical.. Hopfully green bikes will be available soon so I wun feel so guilty riding my bike so often..

 

Hydrogen bike

[xb84]

a hydrogen bike must be super boring and sounds like sh*t

[Limsteel]

How is the hydrogen created? Electrolysis?

 

Where the Electric comes from? Burning for Fuel?

 

Then it is still causing pollution to the environment.

[compfused]

Hydrogen? Maybe we can see another Hindenburg..

[Guest czh2002sg]

Originally posted by Limsteel@February 07, 2007 09:25 am

How is the hydrogen created? Electrolysis?

 

Where the Electric comes from? Burning for Fuel?

 

Then it is still causing pollution to the environment.

Do you know that combustion of Hydrogen produces water only?

 

2H2 (g) + O2 (g) = 2 H20 ) (l)

 

This is secondary school science.

 

Comparatively, green vehicles which run on electricity or hydrogen produce less carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, sulphur dioxide, lead and the likes, collectively known as harmful gases, with CO2 argued by environmentalists to be resposible for global warming. You've heard it all.

 

Hence, I cannot understand what it is that you base your opinion on? How is green vehicles like hydrogen bikes equally environmentally harmful? Emissions from industrial production of hrdrogen for commericial sale is more easily controlled and regulated as compared to catalytic converters in our exhaust pipes which convert these harmful gases into "safer" products for the environment.

 

All in the name of discussion. Cheers.

[Limsteel]

I know that H2 + O results in water... but how is hyrdogen produce?

 

you need electricity to spilt the molecule of water into 2 parts (2Hydrogen + Oxygen)... how is electricity produce in the case? Fuel needs to be burnt right? no matter how much you control, you still produce CO2 which is a green house gas trapping the heat of the Sun (ultimately global warming, resulting in melting of polar Ice-Cap)

 

Easier to control emmission of factory? You sure? Policy easy to laid down. Enforcing is another story. Even if the enforcement is done properly, controlling the pollutant need $$$... in the end who pay?

 

So Like I say until a cheaper and more efficient method of spilting water molecule. it is highly inefficient and costly. not to mention the CO2 produce during the burning of fuel... Worst if we use Neuclear, clean in the beginning, major problem when the energy deplete...

 

[z1boy]

point is, hydrogen is available everywhere and it is renewable, not like crude oil

[Me_No_Money]

interesting.hope to c more details.

[zod]

Originally posted by Limsteel@February 08, 2007 03:51 pm

I know that H2 + O results in water... but how is hyrdogen produce?

 

you need electricity to spilt the molecule of water into 2 parts (2Hydrogen + Oxygen)... how is electricity produce in the case? Fuel needs to be burnt right? no matter how much you control, you still produce CO2 which is a green house gas trapping the heat of the Sun (ultimately global warming, resulting in melting of polar Ice-Cap)

 

Easier to control emmission of factory? You sure? Policy easy to laid down. Enforcing is another story. Even if the enforcement is done properly, controlling the pollutant need $$$... in the end who pay?

 

So Like I say until a cheaper and more efficient method of spilting water molecule. it is highly inefficient and costly. not to mention the CO2 produce during the burning of fuel... Worst if we use Neuclear, clean in the beginning, major problem when the energy deplete...

 

nuclear fusion is the answer

[Me_No_Money]

Originally posted by zod@February 08, 2007 07:47 pm

nuclear fusion is the answer

if only we have 100% control over e power it generated.

[Terrible One]

Originally posted by Limsteel+February 08, 2007 03:51 pm-->

QUOTE (Limsteel @ February 08, 2007 03:51 pm)

I know that H2 + O results in water... but how is hyrdogen produce?   you need electricity to spilt the molecule of water into 2 parts (2Hydrogen + Oxygen)... how is electricity produce in the case? Fuel needs to be burnt right? no matter how much you control, you still produce CO2 which is a green house gas trapping the heat of the Sun (ultimately global warming, resulting in melting of polar Ice-Cap)   Easier to control emmission of factory? You sure? Policy easy to laid down. Enforcing is another story. Even if the enforcement is done properly, controlling the pollutant need $$$... in the end who pay?   So Like I say until a cheaper and more efficient method of spilting water molecule. it is highly inefficient and costly. not to mention the CO2 produce during the burning of fuel... Worst if we use Neuclear, clean in the beginning, major problem when the energy deplete...   [/b] Thanks for the info.. Guess I was too ignorant to think that it's actually "cleaner".. So it's prob a good way of deluding ourselves to think that we're doing the environment less harm to the environment with this..     Originally posted by zod@February 08, 2007 07:47 pm nuclear fusion is the answer

[zod]

Originally posted by Terrible One@February 08, 2007 09:15 pm

Thanks for the info.. Guess I was too ignorant to think that it's actually "cleaner".. So it's prob a good way of deluding ourselves to think that we're doing the environment less harm to the environment with this..

 

 

 

In what way is using nuclear fusion deluding ourselves?

As of currently, only fusion holds the potential to reduce the greenhouse effect as well as being the only renewable energy source that can be used on a massive scale.

 

You might be confused between fission and fusion.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fusion

[Terrible One]

Originally posted by zod@February 08, 2007 09:36 pm

In what way is using nuclear fusion deluding ourselves?

No, I ment by using an eco friendly bike with fuel obtained from a not so eco friendly method is deluding ourselves..

 

Thanks for ur info for the difference between fission and fusion. My science teacher would be so sad to know that i threw all she tot back to her already..

 

[Guest czh2002sg]

hmmm.... lets just enjoy our rides. LOL

[operator]

Originally posted by Limsteel@February 07, 2007 09:25 am

How is the hydrogen created? Electrolysis?

 

Where the Electric comes from? Burning for Fuel?

 

Then it is still causing pollution to the environment.

Bro. I have to agree with you.

 

I once did a short paper on fuel cells a couple years ago. This is what I found out.

 

The after emission of fuel cells is water which is environmental friendly but most ppl do not know that the production of hydrogen is not so environmental friendly. Hydrogen is produced by electrolysis. Sometimes, sun energy is used in this electrolysis but sometimes electricity. And we get our electricity from oil( in SG). Its just a cycle.

 

This theory of hydrogen car was established many years ago but up till now, there are not many hydrogen cars ard. Y? Now you have the answer.

 

My 0.02cents.

 

Anyway, I did my paper quite some time so things might be different now. With better knowledge, who knows that hydrogen production is now safe, cheap and clean.

 

I'll be looking out for these bikes..

[B20]

Originally posted by czh2002sg@February 08, 2007 03:31 pm

Do you know that combustion of Hydrogen produces water only?

 

2H2 (g) + O2 (g) = 2 H20 ) (l)

like that if everyone riding one of these bike... the road will be wet wet all the way sia... lolz...

[Limsteel]

You sure bo!

 

Water flow out of the exhaust? How much H2O molecules is need to form 1 droplet? not to mention the high temp of combustion (ever feel the heat of your exhuast?) there is no way water can condense while travelling along the pipes and exit as water droplet!

 

maybe in cool climate water vapour will form upon exiting the exhaust like any person breathing out smoke in very cold weather...

[CarroTT]

Sum are still blur by the application of Hydrogen in vechiles

 

many tinks tat u r gonna burn the H2 gas to produce energy

in reality, mostly it will not be used tat way to produce energy

 

By combining H and O radicals together, u can create an electrochemical potential, ie electricity lor to those who dun take chemistry seriously.

This way is a much more efficient way of producing power

 

The engine will most probably runs on electrical from the electrochemical reaction of the hydrogen and oxygen.

Imagine how an electrical motor wud be like, so little vibration, so little maintenance, so smooth is the power. . . . . . this IS the FUTURE .

 

So tink back before judging how the performance of the bike will be like

generating power/torque is never a problem

the oni problem is finding a way to store energy

[plasticblackspecs]

Either case, hydrogen bike will still produce less pollution than normal petrol bikes. I think we're trying to aim for LESS pollution than NO pollution for now. Maybe after that then we think again. Now one step at a time. Or best, all ride bicyle. No pollution. Torgue and power all depends on how fit you are. No sorry. I think will still have pollution. All the smelly sweat and all.

[operator]

Originally posted by CarroTT@February 13, 2007 10:10 pm

Sum are still blur by the application of Hydrogen in vechiles

 

many tinks tat u r gonna burn the H2 gas to produce energy

in reality, mostly it will not be used tat way to produce energy

 

By combining H and O radicals together, u can create an electrochemical potential, ie electricity lor to those who dun take chemistry seriously.

This way is a much more efficient way of producing power

 

The engine will most probably runs on electrical from the electrochemical reaction of the hydrogen and oxygen.

Imagine how an electrical motor wud be like, so little vibration, so little maintenance, so smooth is the power. . . . . . this IS the FUTURE .

 

So tink back before judging how the performance of the bike will be like

generating power/torque is never a problem

the oni problem is finding a way to store energy

Bro, you should be refering to fuel cells rite. wat u say is true. theres the cathode and anode side. theres also the catalyst which promotes the reaction. like u say, hydrogen is not used to burn or as fuel for the engine coz theres no engine in the 1st place. should be dc motor. need quite a stack though as fuel cells generally produce less than 1v each.

 

anybody wish to share/correct/exchange ideas???

[Terrible One]

Originally posted by CarroTT@February 13, 2007 10:10 pm

Imagine how an electrical motor wud be like, so little vibration, so little maintenance, so smooth is the power. . . . . . this IS the FUTURE .

 

So tink back before judging how the performance of the bike will be like

generating power/torque is never a problem

the oni problem is finding a way to store energy

What I remembered reading somewhere that electric motors produces the higest torque at zero RPM.. Where as normal engine has them at max RPM(that's according to what they say la, we all know max torque is achived at high but not the very max RPM).. So it'll be interesting to feel how it rides.. As for maintenance I think the carbon brush in the motors wil prob wear off pretty fast.. And the commutator(dunnno correct spelling or not) will become out of shape also.. Well hydrogen bikes wun replace ur Hayabusa, but I think it's cool to have a variaty of bikes out there..

[operator]

Originally posted by Terrible One@February 15, 2007 11:41 am

What I remembered reading somewhere that electric motors produces the higest torque at zero RPM.. Where as normal engine has them at max RPM(that's according to what they say la, we all know max torque is achived at high but not the very max RPM).. So it'll be interesting to feel how it rides.. As for maintenance I think the carbon brush in the motors wil prob wear off pretty fast.. And the commutator(dunnno correct spelling or not) will become out of shape also.. Well hydrogen bikes wun replace ur Hayabusa, but I think it's cool to have a variaty of bikes out there..

Well... there's brushless DC motor. Have worked with them b4... so maintenance wise is ok. Dun ask me how it works..

 

Prob with electric motor would be speed, i tink.

[qebalt]

but still, oil companies will pay a lot of money to this 'inventors, designers or engineers' to shut up. hehehe

[angu]

Originally posted by Limsteel@February 08, 2007 03:51 pm

I know that H2 + O results in water... but how is hyrdogen produce?

 

you need electricity to spilt the molecule of water into 2 parts (2Hydrogen + Oxygen)... how is electricity produce in the case? Fuel needs to be burnt right? no matter how much you control, you still produce CO2 which is a green house gas trapping the heat of the Sun (ultimately global warming, resulting in melting of polar Ice-Cap)

 

Easier to control emmission of factory? You sure? Policy easy to laid down. Enforcing is another story. Even if the enforcement is done properly, controlling the pollutant need $$$... in the end who pay?

 

So Like I say until a cheaper and more efficient method of spilting water molecule. it is highly inefficient and costly. not to mention the CO2 produce during the burning of fuel... Worst if we use Neuclear, clean in the beginning, major problem when the energy deplete...

 

... how is electricity produce in the case? Fuel needs to be burnt right?

 

Not necessarily:

 

http://www.fuelfromthewater.com/hydroelectric_power_2.jpg

 

 

;-)

 

 

 

no matter how much you control, you still produce CO2 which is a green house gas

 

Even if you ARE burning fuel, oil (or other fossile fuels) are the worst possible. Burning renewable fuels on the other hand (such as ethanol) does ideally not give a significant net contribution to CO2, since the production of these requires CO2 (so the CO2 released in burning is compensated by the CO2 required in the production). Of course there are other concerns, for example that the methods of production may themselves be using fossile fuels (tractors used for harvesting crops etc), but it's not as simle as "burning fuel is equally bad whatever fuel you use". For example all humans and animals "burn fuel" and produce CO2, but we compensate by consuming food that has bound the CO2.

 

 

Ok, sorry for the rant...

[Terrible One]

Originally posted by angu@February 16, 2007 04:16 pm

Even if you ARE burning fuel, oil (or other fossile fuels) are the worst possible. Burning renewable fuels on the other hand (such as ethanol) does ideally not give a significant net contribution to CO2, since the production of these requires CO2 (so the CO2 released in burning is compensated by the CO2 required in the production). Of course there are other concerns, for example that the methods of production may themselves be using fossile fuels (tractors used for harvesting crops etc), but it's not as simle as "burning fuel is equally bad whatever fuel you use". For example all humans and animals "burn fuel" and produce CO2, but we compensate by consuming food that has bound the CO2.

 

 

I heard this program on the BBC World service a few weeks back abt bio fuel.. They were investing heavily on using maize to produce Ethanol.. Which like you said compensate the release of CO2 by the absorption during farming. Also farmers get to rotate crops so the land will get to "rest". But Tortilla flour price has gone up 400% the past mths cos of their friendly neighbor using their staple food to power stuff. Here's an article if to read if anyone is interested. Oh and you can actually used recycled cooking oil to run ur diesel engine, just filter it and u've got fuel!! Saw it on Discovery channel, but dunno will do the engine any harm or not. I hope this topic wun turn into another flaming thread, cos I think it's useful discussion. All of us here loves to ride our bikes and drive our cars, guess we got to open up a little so we can find way to continue doing it even after we ran out of dead dinosaurs.