Harley Riders gather

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by NormalAspirated@Dec 11 2006, 12:36 PM

Aiyoooo ... since you like it so much just go and get one.

My salary are well spent on my Green Turtle..

 

I love to follow my heart, but when I see my wallet.... you know

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by Ah Fai+Dec 11 2006, 01:09 PM-->

QUOTE (Ah Fai @ Dec 11 2006, 01:09 PM)

My salary are well spent on my Green Turtle..   I love to follow my heart, but when I see my wallet.... you know [/b] and your guarantor's wallet also will be even more dry

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by gohjohan@Dec 11 2006, 02:12 PM

Not sure if it's PC3, but it's definitely something that needs to be installed.

So when buying the SE exhaust, we need to buy another electronic system like PC3 to install into the bike... hmmm, dyno run... seems like a bit troublesome

[Harley_Hong]

What I understand is that the later models 06,07. You need not buy the chips everytime you add slips-on..(Not full system) It is automatically tuned. So you save a little moolah.

 

I hope I am not mistaken.

 

P.S: Ah-Fai: Last Saturday, I saw a Z1000 zoom pass Park Mall, late evening. Were you the one? Yer pipes sounds terrific.

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Dec 11 2006, 02:37 PM

So when buying the SE exhaust, we need to buy another electronic system like PC3 to install into the bike... hmmm, dyno run... seems like a bit troublesome

Power Commander is available for a reason. It’s every owner dream to have improvement on their bike and having a slip-on without an optimization may induce annoying problem like overheating, surging or pinging as accord to official site.

 

Power Commander can also adjust the ignition curve for increased part throttle response, increased peak power, or to eliminate detonation. On most models the ignition curve is close to optimum for "pump" fuel. In some cases it is possible to increase part throttle torque by adjusting the timing. With high octane racing fuel further gains can be realized at wide open throttle. Harley Davidson models, in some configurations, can benefit from a reduction in timing advance. If heavily loaded or during hot weather the PC can be adjusted to eliminate the "pinging" that is so common during these conditions.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by Harley_Hong@Dec 11 2006, 03:20 PM

What I understand is that the later models 06,07. You need not buy the chips everytime you add slips-on..(Not full system) It is automatically tuned. So you save a little moolah.

 

I hope I am not mistaken.

 

P.S: Ah-Fai: Last Saturday, I saw a Z1000 zoom pass Park Mall, late evening. Were you the one? Yer pipes sounds terrific.

Oic, cause in my opinion, installing PC3 in a sportster is quite difficult due to the confined underseat space & heat generate from the engine, well thats what I think...

 

Hmmm, last Saturday night I did ride locally but can't remember where I ride pass. But if you see a Green Z1000 with Akra exhaust pipe, 90% is me lah

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Dec 11 2006, 04:08 PM

Power Commander is available for a reason. It’s every owner dream to have improvement on their bike and having a slip-on without an optimization may induce annoying problem like overheating, surging or pinging as accord to official site.

 

Yes, agree with you that a PC3 will do good to a Harley-Davidson But let say if we install the SE slip-on exhaust pipe without PC3, will it do harm to the H-D engines?

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Dec 11 2006, 11:07 PM

Yes, agree with you that a PC3 will do good to a Harley-Davidson But let say if we install the SE slip-on exhaust pipe without PC3, will it do harm to the H-D engines?

As said, its all about optimization but, theoretically, there should not be any sick effect on the engine.

 

Perhaps a better read up taken from Heavy Duty Cycles by Donny Petersen would give a better insight on pipe.

 

However marketing clouds the picture. We all want cool looking bikes. An exhaust on a Harley is also a fashion accessory. Sometimes, HD riders will only be concerned with looks or fashion. Some love the staccato of straight through drag pipes and make their choice based purely on sound. Others want hi-performance and will sacrifice looks and/or a subjectively nice sound. Most want it all. Well, in life, sometimes we can’t have it all.There are manufacturers who make pipes only because of the sound and, of course, this is why they sell. Therefore a set of drag pipes is sold, not, because of performance but because of sound. It matters not that low-end performance will suffer in a stock Harley. Even here the manufacturers are charitable and make the best of it by making them the correct or close to the correct length for a stock HD engine with the best inner diameter measurement of 1 3/4”. Maybe I better correct myself on this one because that is the way it used to be.Fashion and sound now dictate that some straight through non-muffled drag pipes are way, way too long for best performance on a stock or performance engine. Furthermore fat is where its currently at. Some of these overlong pipes measure up to 2 ½” inner diameter, which is far too big for a stock engine. Performance engines can “grow” into the increased header pipe diameter but they cannot grow into the excessive lengths. A bike may sound and feel faster with louder pipes but this is most times an illusion, albeit a pleasant one.The bottom line is to buy whatever turns your crank. Harleys are slow bikes when compared to what is available out there. feel that horsepower figures quoted by the factory are often very optimistic ones. The loss of a coupla horsepower through the usage of improper (performance) exhausts below the stock muffler system is ot the end of the world when looking or sounding good is the goal.However, the restrictive stock exhausts on modern Harleys suppress some of the existing horsepower that is in the engine.his is no fault of Harley Davidson, as they must follow noise pollution dictates of the Federal Government. It is very easy to gain up to 5 horsepower by removing the stock H-D exhaust and putting an appropriate performance exhaust on. A good example but not limited to; is a performance 2 into 1 collector exhaust. If the rider can find one of these that please his or her eye with a satisfactory sound, then it becomes a win-win situation except of course for the cost. Exhaust pipe prices have gone ballistic since the beginning of the Harley boom.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Dec 12 2006, 02:11 AM

As said, its all about optimization but, theoretically, there should not be any sick effect on the engine.

 

Perhaps a better read up taken from Heavy Duty Cycles by Donny Petersen would give a better insight on pipe.

 

wow, thanks pal, very imfomative, for my case I would like to have a good sound exhaust pipe than having a performance exhaust pipe...

 

May I quote also a artictle written by Buzz Buzzelli from "Harley-Davidson Sportster Performance Handbook", which I find it quite interesting & wanna share with you guys:

 

Nearly everyone who buys a Sportster --- or any Harley for that matter --- changes the exhaust system, either for better looks or sound quality. Stock Sportster mufflers are quiet enough to please the Fed, but too quiet to please the majority of Sportster owners.

 

Almost all aftermarket mufflers and exhaust systems flow more air than the stock system, and therefore allow the engine to produce more power. Few of these take full advantage of the Sportster's power potential, however. The popular small mufflers that appear similar to the origin mufflers simply do not have enough internal volume to take advantage of exhaust flow capabilities at high engine speeds. These muffles --- Harley-Davidson's Screamin' Eagle replacement parts are a good example --- are overly restrictive at full throttle and high rpm. The problem is that small mufflers cannot be both reasonably quiet and also allow adequate flow.

 

Evolution engines are extremely sensitive to exhaust system design. The standard exhaust pipe diameter of 1.75 inches is marginal for a cylinders displacing 74 cubic inches (1200 Sportster). A 1.875 or 2-inch diameter is more appropriate for high-performance and big-engine (80-cubic-inch and larger) work. Evolution engines do not respond well to straight "drag pipes," especially those that are 40 inches or more in length. These pipes do not work well below about 3800rpm. Straight-pipe, nonmuffled system run poorly in the 3000-and-lower rpm range.

[gohjohan]

Any outing on this Thursday?

[nkan0]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Dec 12 2006, 12:55 PM

May I quote also a artictle written by Buzz Buzzelli from "Harley-Davidson Sportster Performance Handbook", which I find it quite interesting & wanna share with you guys:

 

gohjohan: anything on for this Thurs? U joining in??

Ah Fai, thats a very good short write-up on the Sportsters exhaust systems!!

 

where do u managed to get all this info???

 

hmmm, thats why i'd changed my Sportster74 to the SE muffles. but stil dont quite get this part of the quote: "The popular small mufflers that appear similar to the origin mufflers simply do not have enough internal volume to take advantage of exhaust flow capabilities at high engine speeds. These muffles --- Harley-Davidson's Screamin' Eagle replacement parts are a good example --- are overly restrictive at full throttle and high rpm."

 

:confused:

 

gohjohan: U joinin in this THurs's RIde??

[William Tan]

Originally posted by n@kan0@Dec 13 2006, 01:09 AM

but stil dont quite get this part of the quote: "The popular small mufflers that appear similar to the origin mufflers simply do not have enough internal volume to take advantage of exhaust flow capabilities at high engine speeds. These muffles --- Harley-Davidson's Screamin' Eagle replacement parts are a good example --- are overly restrictive at full throttle and high rpm."

I could be wrong, it seems that the article is trying to say that small mufflers with sizes similar to the originals (e.g. Harley's Screaming Eagle) does not allow exhaust air to exit fast enough at higher engine speeds. This restricts the engine performance/efficiency at higer rpms. But then again, how often do yer guys take your Harleys to full throttle or high rpms?

 

From what i know about exhaust, it seems that one could never get the best of both world.

- For better low end, exhaust air have to be removed faster. This is where a smaller diameter exhaust works best.

- For better mid-high end (high engine speeds), exhaust air have to be removed in larger volume to give way for the next stroke. This is where a larger diameter exhaust works best.

 

BUT smaller diameter = restricted at higher rpm, bigger diameter = loss in low end torque. So most exhaust manufacturers try to get the balance between the 2. Either that, or put a larger diameter exhaust, and customise your machine to take in more at each stroke, which = higher fuel intake. Or just forget about everything else and just sound good, and look good.

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by n@kan0@Dec 13 2006, 01:09 AM

Ah Fai, thats a very good short write-up on the Sportsters exhaust systems!!

 

where do u managed to get all this info???

 

hmmm, thats why i'd changed my Sportster74 to the SE muffles. but stil dont quite get this part of the quote: "The popular small mufflers that appear similar to the origin mufflers simply do not have enough internal volume to take advantage of exhaust flow capabilities at high engine speeds. These muffles --- Harley-Davidson's Screamin' Eagle replacement parts are a good example --- are overly restrictive at full throttle and high rpm."

 

:confused:

 

gohjohan: U joinin in this THurs's RIde??

Yup, you coming?

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by n@kan0@Dec 13 2006, 01:09 AM

Ah Fai, thats a very good short write-up on the Sportsters exhaust systems!!

 

where do u managed to get all this info???

 

Thanks pal, hope this short paragrah of exhaust system is useful

 

May be some of you guys & gals got this book too, you can get this book, Harley-Davidson Sportster Performance Hand-book 3rd edition, (auther: Buzz Buzzelli), from Kinokuniya at Takashimaya. You can also get it from Borders at Wheel-lock Place. But I'm not sure now still have or not, can place order at the bookshop

 

Anyway I find this book helps me understand Sportster better & teaches you how to modify your Sportster --- in detail, like chapters on "Overhauling the Gearbox", "Theory and Components", "Building the Engine"... too high-tech for me... But I like the chapters on "Sportster Performance Basic", "History of Evolution and Rubber-Mount Sportster", "The New Rubber Mounts - A new generation of future Sportster" which tells me why/how Evolution engine is installed & work in that particular way... yet some of the theory terms I really catch no ballz

 

Price: S$63.95

[nkan0]

William Tan: yes, what you'd said is right, end of the day, how often do i really full-throttle my sportster... ???

there's always a sacrifice btw the bottom-end vs the top-end.....

 

johan: err... u jump, i jump...

 

err... i mean, u go, i'll go too.... o_O

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by William Tan@Dec 13 2006, 06:56 AM

I could be wrong, it seems that the article is trying to say that small mufflers with sizes similar to the originals (e.g. Harley's Screaming Eagle) does not allow exhaust air to exit fast enough at higher engine speeds. This restricts the engine performance/efficiency at higer rpms. But then again, how often do yer guys take your Harleys to full throttle or high rpms?

Well, I also think that the book is telling us what you have mentioned, too bad that I haven't read the whole detail yet, seeing all the dyno-graphs, parts/terms & measurements really makes me headache

 

haha, may be one will full throttle for testing out the Sportster full stock-potential

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by William Tan@Dec 13 2006, 06:56 AM

From what i know about exhaust, it seems that one could never get the best of both world.

- For better low end, exhaust air have to be removed faster. This is where a smaller diameter exhaust works best.

- For better mid-high end (high engine speeds), exhaust air have to be removed in larger volume to give way for the next stroke. This is where a larger diameter exhaust works best.

 

BUT smaller diameter = restricted at higher rpm, bigger diameter = loss in low end torque. So most exhaust manufacturers try to get the balance between the 2. Either that, or put a larger diameter exhaust, and customise your machine to take in more at each stroke, which = higher fuel intake. Or just forget about everything else and just sound good, and look good.

I catch what you mean... I will go for your last sentence... just forget about everything else and just sound good, and look good.

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by n@kan0@Dec 13 2006, 11:28 AM

William Tan: yes, what you'd said is right, end of the day, how often do i really full-throttle my sportster... ???

there's always a sacrifice btw the bottom-end vs the top-end.....

 

johan: err... u jump, i jump...

 

err... i mean, u go, i'll go too.... o_O

ok, cya tomorrow then.

[TTL]

http://intranet.mssinet.gov.sg/nowcast/

 

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by TTL@Dec 14 2006, 06:47 PM

http://intranet.mssinet.gov.sg/nowcast/

 

you should have ignored that. It was fine last night. We ended up riding to Handlebar for a drink.

[Ah Fai]

I had just read the article, I think its nice to share with you guys some of its content

 

: Buzz Buzzelli on "The New Rubber Mounts Sportster"

 

... so the new 2004 rubber Sportster, after 47 years, became the whole new motorcycle. But arguably, its most impressive element is its rubber-isolated powertrain, which eliminates the fearsome vibration that had been such an annoyance to many Sportster riders. Thankfully, for those who appreciate the direct mechanical connection of the solid-mounted engine, the new rubbermount still manages to retain that distinct, traditional, mechanical, Sportster persona. A certain amount of engine shaking makes itself apparent to the rider, yet what shaking and vibration comes through is never bothersome. Now riders can spend all day in the saddle and rev the engine to its limits without the annoying vibration.

 

Rather than simply grafting rubber isolation into the old frame, instead, every component and every system was redesigned. When engineers set out to redo the XL, they had four major objectives: to reduce engine vibration, improve durability, enchance styling, and improve ergonomics. While ergonomics is a rather subjective element, relative to a rider's particular stature, no one can argue that the engineers did not hit their targets on all the other goals. Engineers rightfully assumed that riders would be spending more time on the new XL, so durability testing was extended to the same 50,000-mile schedule of the Dyna Glides.

 

Like the Twin Cam engine introduced 5 years prior, oil jets are built into the case to squirt cooling oil onto the bottom of the pistons. This helps to lower temperatures. The large cylinder fins, with some 20% more fin area than the previous Sportster, are another reason this engine dissipates heat like no other Harley. The high-flow heads have a simple oil drainback feature that helps oil circulate and carry away still more heat. None of this was an accident. Engineers had set out to enchance cooling through this 3 methods: more fin area, oil-jet cooling and an increase in oil capacity.

 

A special engineering team had spent a year studying the oil "weepage" around the gasket areas of Harleys and the lesson learnt were incorporated into the rubber XL. Only a single rocker cover is used, replacing te previous three piece assembly, which minimizes the number of gasket surfaces. Althought the rubber's outer case cover were restyled, the traditional timing cover was retained for its traditional looks. In 2006, new, die-cast engine cases were introduced.

 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Fai_photo/SporterRubbermount.jpg

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Fai_photo/SporterRubbermount1.jpg

The rubber bisquits are the reason the new 2004-later XLs run so smooth. They allow a small amount of engine movement while isolating vibration from the chassis. Some shaking can be felt at idle, and at high speeds a small amount of vibration comes through to the rider although it is substantially reduced. Harley Davidson

 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Fai_photo/SporterRubbermount2.jpg

The manufacturing precision of the robot-welded frame eliminates the need for the adjustable engine stabilizers that are typical on other Harleys. There's one mounted to the front of the engine, one of the front cylinder head, and one at the bottom. They allow the engine to move in an axial plane but prevent it from twisting or yawing in the frame. Harley Davidson

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by gohjohan@Dec 15 2006, 09:31 AM

you should have ignored that. It was fine last night. We ended up riding to Handlebar for a drink.

Hi pal, where is Handle bar? Me never went there before

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Dec 15 2006, 11:08 AM

Hi pal, where is Handle bar? Me never went there before

Gillman Village. Can also go by Depot Road. It's a shack at the bottom of Villa Frangipanni. If you want to, see if we can meet up with the other Iron Horses and then I'll bring you all there

[Jess1717]

Originally posted by gohjohan@Dec 15 2006, 09:31 AM

you should have ignored that. It was fine last night. We ended up riding to Handlebar for a drink.

Hmm.... was at Vila Bali.... heard the rumbling noise from handle-bar....

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by Jess1717@Dec 15 2006, 01:55 PM

Hmm.... was at Vila Bali.... heard the rumbling noise from handle-bar....

At 8.30 pm, right? That's us. Hope we didn't disturb your dinner