STREET SMART

[w1n6]

Originally posted by Pplater@May 04, 2007 01:34 am

Lastly, for small bikes being tailgated in heavy traffic and having no where to go, brake lightly, high rev and throw clutch. Its just enough power for a slight surge to pull ahead. By forcing them to slow down and then pulling ahead to increase the distance, you give them the chance to hold their constant speed and position. I've tried flashing intermittent many times. Its very very difficult for them to step the brake pedal a little bit longer to increase their distance behind you. Help them by slowing down and pulling ahead. This increased distance also gives them a chance to accelerate to overtake.

Not a good idea to play with tailgating vehicle.

[Pplater]

Originally posted by w1n6@May 04, 2007 02:19 am

Not a good idea to play with tailgating vehicle.

Not to play. Its to signal my request for more space behind me. Its something i rarely do, as a last resort if i can't lane change to give way to him due to heavy traffic or i judge that is not safe to squeeze away. Normally i find that when you intermittent brake, they heck care. If you slow down gradually, they have to slow down even more than you to give you the space you need. Often, i find that slowing down is useless. They remain in the same position very close to me. I find slowing down a little to let the space in front of me open up, and then pulling ahead much more effective. If the driver is nice, he will maintain his constant speed and position behind me. If he speeds up to close the gap again, well, he wants to play and i dun play on public roads.

 

These days i rarely get a tailgator. I find that picking them out before they tailgate me gives me the chance to change lane to avoid them, and watch them go tailgate the car in front of me with much inward satisfaction, and waiting to see something happen to them, without involving me.

[Spectrum]

Best is to let those who tailgate u pass by moving to the side...

These are drivers u best stay clear... the further the better..

[Spectrum]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v484/2100spectrum/Street%20Smart/StreetSmartOrgi01.jpg

 

Borrowed this cartoon for http://www.Orgi.co.uk

 

Don't u wish sometimes u could just do what Orgi did...

If they would only look!

[w1n6]

Nice one Its true that its always the case!

[Spectrum]

Ha ha... seen some real angry bikers just telling the drivers...

"Ü almost killed me... u know!!!%#$&*"

[Pplater]

deleted

[Spectrum]

One great way to Tap on the Experience rider on what goes on in

their mind thru the dangers of today's road.

[Turk]

Originally posted by Spectrum@May 15, 2007 04:19 pm

Ha ha... seen some real angry bikers just telling the drivers...

"Ü almost killed me... u know!!!%#$&*"

The problem is that they will never know!!!

 

They don't expect a bike around, and also they are too busy with their radios, mobile phones, air con, etc. They also have huge blind spots.

 

I guess it's up to us to make sure that we are "visible" and are "seen".

And even though I had only a brief look so far, this topic is full of extremely useful information to make sure that we do.

 

Thanls for the great information, I am determined to spend this weekend going through the whole topic.

[Spectrum]

well said Turk... Being Visible & Been Seen is of great has great bearing on our safety!

And Able to take avoiding actions if the drivers turn into our path...

[endlessloop]

The Straits Time interviewed me on motorcycling related safety.

My quotes appear on Sunday Times, 8 June 2007, page 8.

The article should be on motorcyling safety related. You can go read if you are interested.

[seeprompt]

Endlessloop is fast becoming (if not already) our local bike celebrity. Check out The Straits Time Thursday, June 14 2007 at the Home section page 1. There is a quotation from Mr Tay Lip Sing, a founding member of the Singapore Motorcycle Safety Association.

 

*Off topic*

I wonder if the rumored perks like hordes of young girls available are indeed true that celebrities have to "endure".

[Turk]

Endlessloop is fast becoming (if not already) our local bike celebrity. Check out The Straits Time Thursday, June 14 2007 at the Home section page 1. There is a quotation from Mr Tay Lip Sing, a founding member of the Singapore Motorcycle Safety Association.

 

Read that one. Good article to raise awareness among 4 wheel drivers.

The penalties that the drivers got for causing death are ridiculously low though; should at least come with an additional jail sentence. Still, they were emphasised to good effect in the article. It is sad that people would worry more about having to pay $ 6,000 than potentially injuring someone, but that's the world today I guess.

 

As I said, articles like these are good to raise awareness.

Reminded me the "Think Bike!" campaign in the UK, that I saw last time I was there. There are signs (in the below photo I found on the web) at every major junction or dangerous part of the road. The one that reads "Think Bike!" is on the junctions. The one that read "To die for?" is placed at the windy b-roads where bikers like to test their cornering techniques or their top speeds!!!

Extremely effective campaign, provided that the signs can stay up for at least 1 year.

Wonder if a similar campaign would be beneficial here?

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9383/bikerny7.th.jpg

[pimpthugsta]

yesterday i see one wave , he wanna turn right at junction. it was green light but not green arrow.. he neever stop or slow down he just SHOOOOT.. got one bus he never see the bus almost langa him. he almost go on top of the curb. very not safe if dont even slow down and just shoot asumming no car. lol just sharing

[pimpthugsta]

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/xxes123/d02d10dc463dfb042398e6e59378bde9_re.jpg

 

 

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/xxes123/e6a2cb6ffdbbec439a2d70b681ed0a1c_ro.jpg

 

for those looking for more BACK protection , just bought this today..

the bag is detechable , and the back amour is good for track under the suit .. its a great 2 in 1 product ..

 

plus the Dainese prices by JR is very reasonable compared to overseas..

 

 

how much for this where to get

[slowrider]

Best is to let those who tailgate u pass by moving to the side...

These are drivers u best stay clear... the further the better..

 

Correction : Best is those who are farked-up riders squeezing between vehicles, please move aside and let the rider behind pass thru would be the right sentence to make.

[Turk]

Endlessloop is fast becoming (if not already) our local bike celebrity. Check out The Straits Time Thursday, June 14 2007 at the Home section page 1. There is a quotation from Mr Tay Lip Sing, a founding member of the Singapore Motorcycle Safety Association.

 

 

 

OK, after praising the article in my previous message, now it’s time for my objections…

 

First, I apologise for the length of this post.

 

There are 2 pieces of information in the “Dos and Don’ts” section on the right side of that article which I don’t agree with; the advice that bikes should not filter through traffic or split lanes, and worse, the advice about riding in the middle of the lane.

 

I will try to outline my thinking, with a view to facilitate discussion.

In actual fact the issues are open to discussion, every position has different inherent dangers, but the goal is to take the positioning that minimises our exposure.

Please challenge; my views are not necessarily correct.

 

Lane splitting and filtering;

 

I don’t agree that these are dangerous actions; on the contrary, they reduce risk, provided that we don’t exaggerate; filtering should be 10-20% above the traffic speed and not in a Rossi fashion.

 

We all know that car drivers are terrible in judging the speed of bikes, the stopping distance of bikes, and most worryingly they can’t judge the distance between them and a bike riding in front of them. Especially in heavy stop-and-go traffic, if you are not lane splitting, you are opening yourself to the danger of being hit from behind. I have witnessed many such accidents, and this has been identified in a couple of traffic research surveys as well. A large percentage of the dangers on the road are “behind” us!!!

 

As for filtering; again, especially in heavy stop-go traffic, it is beneficial to filter through the traffic, 10-20% above the traffic speed. While this introduces some new risks, at least you eliminate the threats from behind you.

 

Riding in the middle of the lane;

 

The article stated that riding in the middle of the lane increases your visibility, and helps you protect your lane. Which are PARTLY true, but there are many drawbacks which make riding in the middle of the lane potentially the most dangerous place to ride!!! Defensive riding is not necessarily passive riding. You should arrange your position, speed, according to the traffic & road conditions instead of passively sitting in the middle of the lane, riding with the flow of the traffic.

I will try to explain the problems;

• Visibility: Middle of the lane increases your visibility to the vehicle immediately in front of you (provided he’s checking his rear view mirrors), and to the vehicle immediately behind you. But it renders you almost invisible to all other vehicles traveling on the same stretch. If you have to travel behind another vehicle for an extended period, the best way to increase your visibility is to change your position every couple of minutes to make sure that you somehow catch the attention of the driver, and you were not in a blindspot.

• Grip: You loose a lot of grip riding in the center of the lane. We all know what that means; greater stopping distance, potential to loose the back under heavy braking, and less cornering stability, etc…

o The cleanest parts of the lane are the tire tracks of cars. As cars travel, their tires sweep the road and brush the debris to each side of the wheel; to the side of the lanes, and to the middle of it as well. Debris will reduce your grip, and make the road slippery.

o Another problem in the middle of the lane, especially in Singapore, is the white markings, signs, and lettering painted onto the road surface, typically in the middle of the lanes. There are many of those in Singapore; directional arrows in the city, lane numbering on the express ways, etc. The problem is that the white paint they use reduces grip considerably, and is extremely slippery in wet conditions. The white paint should be avoided, especially in the wet.

o Obstacles: Like debris, usually obstacles, stones, etc are pushed towards the sides and the middle of the lane. Other obstacles are things like manhole covers, which are located in the middle of the lanes in most countries so that the cars can avoid them. To be honest I haven’t analysed the ones in Singapore yet, which is my bad.

• Avoiding dangers; unfortunately, when we encounter dangers, the natural reaction is to try to swerve, which is good for the obstacles on the road. When there’s another vehicle involved, I think a well executed e-brake is much more efficient, but that’s another story. When you’re in the middle of the lane, and the car in front of you suddenly brakes, you will have a lot more of the car to avoid with a swerve, and your braking will be less efficient because of the reduced grip. In effect, riding in the middle of the lane reduces your escape route options.

• Protecting your lane: True that riding in the middle of the lane gives you slightly better lane protection, but I found that riding on the tire tracks of cars gives you almost as much lane protection. The disadvantages are too great to offset for this incremental benefit.

 

So, after all that, what is the best place to be in the lane?

I believe It’s the tire tracks of the cars. (The Right one, unless you’re on the right-most lane)

And filtering through the traffic on heavy stop-go traffic (remember only 10-20% faster than the traffic) reduces the risks that you’re exposed to as well.

[Pplater]

Quote: So, after all that, what is the best place to be in the lane?

 

I believe it depends on the rider and the bike he's riding. Fact is, you can't ask a pplater who's inexperienced to ride like this. Smaller bikes have lesser power to pull away, while inexperienced riders may make judgement errors when leaving the middle of the lane to squeeze, the space he has in between vehicles and the clearance he needs for re-entry into the middle of another lane immediately after passing a vehicle.

 

I agree with your method of riding as well. I usually stick to middle of the lane riding but switch to your method when I get tailgators. I don't see the problem with riding in between. I find that when i ride like an angel with a halo above my helmet for an extended period, the forks come to my rear and sides.

 

I guess the safest method is the method you are most comfortable with and which gives you less risk at any given moment. Starting with Endlessloop's HOV is a good idea, no?

[Turk]

I believe it depends on the rider and the bike he's riding. Fact is, you can't ask a pplater who's inexperienced to ride like this.

True, but even a pplater will still have more grip following the tire tracks of the cars, rather than the middle of the lane. And grip is surely what they need most, especially with the inexperienced braking and handling.

 

I guess the safest method is the method you are most comfortable with and which gives you less risk at any given moment.

Spot on.

 

Starting with Endlessloop's HOV is a good idea, no?

There's always something to learn, in the case of HOV, many many thing to learn. See you there

[Pplater]

Oh oh.. maybe i wasn't clear... I'm refering to splitting lanes. Yeah.. Turk you'r right to mention follwing the tire tracks gives more traction. Thats right. I'm not always dead centre as well. Swaying a little from left to right every now and then to increase field of vision in front is normal. It depends on the road situation really. Saw the front page of Thursday's home section. Well... Not really a pretty sight... Ride safe buddies. See you at the HOV session. We share and we learn

[Luintoxon]

Check out this webby http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/viewPost3421.aspx

 

If I m not wrong, the biker in the video should be endlessloop

[Pplater]

It looks suspiciously like him, but if i recall correctly, his blue and white reflectors are wider than those on the bike in the vid.

 

Anyway... somehow i think he wouldn't be in that position, not for long even if he did.

[seeprompt]

It looks suspiciously like him, but if i recall correctly, his blue and white reflectors are wider than those on the bike in the vid.

 

Anyway... somehow i think he wouldn't be in that position, not for long even if he did.

I believe that the bike in the post is Yamaha Fazer 1000 from the 2006 release version. Note the position of exhaust. In any case that rider is being safe thing by staying in the center of lane 1 (while overtaking....I think) and keeping a safe distance from the car that is directly in front of him. Note worthy to be similar to endlessloop's style of riding. ;-)

[xxes123]

how much for this where to get

 

I got the Dainese bag for $200 after discount..

Great bag => 100% water proof and look nice

[endlessloop]

Good guesses so far. Yes, I am the first big bike in the picture and video in:

 

http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/viewPost3421.aspx

 

Initially, I wanted to point out that it was a peak hour start-stop traffic condition and no, bikers do have the right to overtake by the right lane.

 

As I read on with the rest of the comments posted by other people towards that Ivan, I realised I don't have to do anything because the rest of the people were blasting the poor Ivan that I have nothng else left to say.

 

:>