how to play corner like motogp

[ambasnakeman]

just found these on google earth...amazing man....remaining parts of track blocked by clouds.....they even have track history....circuit length and ****

[kingpet47]

Hoi Kingpet,

 

Blipping is matching engine speed to wheel speed when going down the box, opening and closing the throttle quickly to bring the revs up JUST before you let the clutch out.

 

Example:

 

Lets say that you are in 3rd gear at 90 kmph with the engine spinning at about 7000 rpms, and you want to drop into 2nd gear. You know for a fact that your engine will spin at 10,000 rpms in 2nd gear for the same 90 kmph. You clutch in, drop to 2nd while almost simultaneously "blipping" (opening the throttle to get the revs up and closing it once it is there) to get the engine speed up to 10,000 rpms. Once done (takes a split second), you let the clutch out fully. If you did it right, there should be no jerk, forward or back.

 

Watch the old Superbike races circa 1990s... watch all the rider's right hands on the braking into corners.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

 

 

damned........ dats wat ive been doin all dis while but i f.cuking dunno wat its called.... i called it revving b4 a corner to get to the rite rpms....while dropping gear....... hahahahhahaha............now i noe... its called the art of blipping......... if u watch closely the last fim asia on tv.... inagaki still adopt dat technique of blippng b4 he enters turn 1.....

[Hartholomew]

damned........ dats wat ive been doin all dis while but i f.cuking dunno wat its called.... i called it revving b4 a corner to get to the rite rpms....while dropping gear....... hahahahhahaha............now i noe... its called the art of blipping......... if u watch closely the last fim asia on tv.... inagaki still adopt dat technique of blippng b4 he enters turn 1.....

 

HAHHAHAHA!

 

Not only Inagaki, even some of the PETRONAS boys too. What I admire is how they can blip THAT quick, accurately while maintaining maximum braking pressure. They are really amazing.

[GuiNNeSS]

BMW doesn't look so scarey from 5 miles up.

[kingpet47]

HAHHAHAHA!

 

Not only Inagaki, even some of the PETRONAS boys too. What I admire is how they can blip THAT quick, accurately while maintaining maximum braking pressure. They are really amazing.

 

yeah man, they r truly amazin...........

[ninja10]

Tks guys for your info.

So far for me, I am a bit slow rider.

No matter how fast I ride on straight (had not redlined yet)...just about 7000 to 8000 max, then when I almost reaching a corner entry point, I will close my throttle or slow down until my rev reach about 4000, then only I clutch in and drop gear be it one gear or two or three gears at one time.

By the time I enter into the corner, I already in the suitable low gear (say 3rd or 2nd gear) with some leanning...then I will just open my throttle slowly and steady around the corner (the 40/60 rule).

Now, I am practising more on leanning into the corner and not much on the entry/exit speed.

Guess once I get more leanning practice, the speed should come on later part.

(he..he..he... trying to be John Hopkins one day..can lean much much...speed slow also never mind).

 

I just ensure that at drop in gear change, the revs had to be 4000 or lesser (follow maker's manual).

I am afraid that I might be screwing up the gear box at high rev drop gear.

(ehmmm ...may be too much follow maker's manual I guess).

[Hartholomew]

Tks guys for your info.

I just ensure that at drop in gear change, the revs had to be 4000 or lesser (follow maker's manual).

I am afraid that I might be screwing up the gear box at high rev drop gear.

(ehmmm ...may be too much follow maker's manual I guess).

 

Konichiwa Ninja,

 

DOH!

 

Forget about the manual bro!!!

[ninja10]

Konichiwa Ninja,

 

DOH!

 

Forget about the manual bro!!!

 

Dear Guru Hart,

Pls pardon me as I think that I really need to address you as Guru. Seriously,man.

 

Ok. It actually scares me when I am doing about 100km/hr on 4th Gear and when I clutch in and drop to 2nd gear (just prior entering corner time) and I clutch out, the RPM immediately jumps to 6000 or more.

I can really feel the engine being stress (from the way the engine/exhaust sound ) due to the high engine brakking due to quick drop gear from a high speed/RPM earlier.

This scares me that I might damage the engines or bend some parts as the manual says...do not drop gear at high speed as this will result in severe engine damage.

That's why I'm worried...worried of damaging the engine/gearbox etc etc.

Maybe I need more practice, liao and for sure more money to spare to repair the parts/engine in case any screw up. :cry:

[Raptor]

I have yet to hear of anyone damaging the engine and gearbox due to engine braking too much.... but sure have seen and heard of alot of people overshooting the corners and crashing due to lack of engine braking., ie going into the corners in the wrong gear (engine rpms too low).

 

Guru Hart will further expound on the engine braking issue in his next post.

 

The only side effect of too much engine braking is a stretched drive chain. I have only replaced the drive chain on my DRZ here with the RK heavy duty 520 race chain.

[NoLogicOne]

The only side effect of too much engine braking is a stretched drive chain. I have only replaced the drive chain on my DRZ here with the RK heavy duty 520 race chain.

 

Are you intending to install the manual timing chain tensioner? I'm reading so much about DRZ SM stuffs.....you probably guess why. Anyways, your Yoshi SS still around?

[NoLogicOne]

Hi, would like to know if blipping will harm the throttle body?

 

How could it harm the throttle body? Bengs and Mat Rampits had been blipping the throttle furiously at traffic lights since the early 80s and so far LAB's main sale of throttle body comes from crashed bikes.

 

The blipping you do in a track should be less than the 2 strokers playing "Symphony of Destruction" bike version underneath the HDB or at MSCP.

 

No worries! Blip away!

[NoLogicOne]

just found these on google earth...amazing man....remaining parts of track blocked by clouds.....they even have track history....circuit length and ****

 

Now then I know that the track entrance lane after T1 was not a smooth radius I always noted that I could not turn smoothly before entering the track....kns. Stupid me.

[NoLogicOne]

BMW doesn't look so scarey from 5 miles up.

 

Looks like a tame chicane compared to what MotoGP circuits shown on TV, but like you mentioned, everything is tame on shots.....I just watched WSBK Germany, and Biaggi seems to be so slow, but how slow can a racer be when he's 2nd in Round 1 and 3rd in Round 3?

 

[Raptor]

Are you intending to install the manual timing chain tensioner? I'm reading so much about DRZ SM stuffs.....you probably guess why. Anyways, your Yoshi SS still around?

 

The MCCT was the first thing I put into the bike along with the case guards.

 

The order of modifications for my bike here are as follows:

1. MCCT

2. Thumpertalk engine case guards

3. Unabiker radiator guards

4. Ascerbis handguards

5. SME axle sliders on the rear and Motovation axle sliders on the front.

6. EBC Prolite 320mm on the front and Galfer wave brake rotors on the rear.

7. Galfer steel braided brake hoses (front and rear).

8. IMS Pro stainless steel foot pegs.

9. Edge2 LED tail light assy from Wheeling Cycle

10. KNN air filter

11. Yoshimura TRC Ti exhaust system.

12. Keihin FCR39 flatlide carb with accelerator pump.

13. Motrax LED turn signals from Wheeling Cycle

14. 44 tooth rear sprocket from Driven

15. RK 520 race drive chain

16. Zeta rear brake disc guard

17. Zeta 2 finger brake and clutch levers.

18. Marchesini rims from Motostrano

19. Front fork air bleeders from Wheeling Cycle

 

Ya... still have the RS3 Yosh but will be keeping it.

 

Sorry for threadjacking and going off topic.

[NoLogicOne]

The MCCT was the first thing I put into the bike along with the case guards.

 

The order of modifications for my bike here are as follows:

1. MCCT

2. Thumpertalk engine case guards

3. Unabiker radiator guards

4. Ascerbis handguards

5. SME axle sliders on the rear and Motovation axle sliders on the front.

6. EBC Prolite 320mm on the front and Galfer wave brake rotors on the rear.

7. Galfer steel braided brake hoses (front and rear).

8. IMS Pro stainless steel foot pegs.

9. Edge2 LED tail light assy from Wheeling Cycle

10. KNN air filter

11. Yoshimura TRC Ti exhaust system.

12. Keihin FCR39 flatlide carb with accelerator pump.

13. Motrax LED turn signals from Wheeling Cycle

14. 44 tooth rear sprocket from Driven

15. RK 520 race drive chain

16. Zeta rear brake disc guard

17. Zeta 2 finger brake and clutch levers.

18. Marchesini rims from Motostrano

19. Front fork air bleeders from Wheeling Cycle

 

Ya... still have the RS3 Yosh but will be keeping it.

 

Sorry for threadjacking and going off topic.

 

Awww, hee....too bad then. Thought I could get it off your hands if it's sitting on the shelf in the garage I pass on the Husky cuz I need a bike to ride 2 up, and Husky is famous for small gas tank, not useful as commuting role which my 'tard has to play. Quite limited choices when I had to consider the pillon option. Even lots of the 650s dun seems to like pillon at all

 

This is not off topic......To play corner like MotoGP, a bike should be setup and upgrade as much as possible within rider and pocket's means, I guess, wahahaha.

[ambasnakeman]

I have yet to hear of anyone damaging the engine and gearbox due to engine braking too much.... but sure have seen and heard of alot of people overshooting the corners and crashing due to lack of engine braking., ie going into the corners in the wrong gear (engine rpms too low).

 

Guru Hart will further expound on the engine braking issue in his next post.

 

The only side effect of too much engine braking is a stretched drive chain. I have only replaced the drive chain on my DRZ here with the RK heavy duty 520 race chain.

 

its quite hard to conclude....till we reach the level of CSI. they can even tell what u had for breakfast by analyzing the bearings.

 

take note. the bearings on production bikes are not high speed racing bearings, but with slight friction and built to last. but some high speed bearings are claimed to stand more abuse than stock.

 

like rvf400 last year. 10 yr old bike. took enormous amount of beating. but no bearings problem.

 

r6 07 though same spec as 06.....had the crankshaft outsourced to another manufacturer to produce to cost savings reason. though yamaha MUST/SHOULD have done the finally QC...there was problems with the bike all over the world this year. not everyone, but a handful.

 

CON ROD bearing jam....some encountered even during running in. enormous engine breaking could be part of the reason, extreme acceleration could have done it too. accleration is limited by bike design but not much can be done. but engine breaking as it depends how individual does it.

 

my point is.....each time we do it wrongly....something has to absorb the extra forces. there is no such thing as a 100% machine(not even GP). so, which ever the weakest part in the machine is gonna take the impact first. what if the only chain in the world was cub chai chain like a universal chain....one size fits all concept.....defintely chain will take the snap first. so when chain is strong, next impact zone is sprockets...followed by engine....followed by chassis....and finally u kissing the floor.

[ambasnakeman]

The MCCT was the first thing I put into the bike along with the case guards.

 

The order of modifications for my bike here are as follows:

1. MCCT

2. Thumpertalk engine case guards

3. Unabiker radiator guards

4. Ascerbis handguards

5. SME axle sliders on the rear and Motovation axle sliders on the front.

6. EBC Prolite 320mm on the front and Galfer wave brake rotors on the rear.

7. Galfer steel braided brake hoses (front and rear).

8. IMS Pro stainless steel foot pegs.

9. Edge2 LED tail light assy from Wheeling Cycle

10. KNN air filter

11. Yoshimura TRC Ti exhaust system.

12. Keihin FCR39 flatlide carb with accelerator pump.

13. Motrax LED turn signals from Wheeling Cycle

14. 44 tooth rear sprocket from Driven

15. RK 520 race drive chain

16. Zeta rear brake disc guard

17. Zeta 2 finger brake and clutch levers.

18. Marchesini rims from Motostrano

19. Front fork air bleeders from Wheeling Cycle

 

Ya... still have the RS3 Yosh but will be keeping it.

 

Sorry for threadjacking and going off topic.

 

yo uncle chipeng...

how u rate the angmoh or nigga mech workmanship over in US. do they work like surgeons in a very clean environment or just like singapore style. do they really know their stuff or is it a myth that we belief in after watching GP mechs. how about labour costs?

[Raptor]

yo uncle chipeng...

how u rate the angmoh or nigga mech workmanship over in US. do they work like surgeons in a very clean environment or just like singapore style. do they really know their stuff or is it a myth that we belief in after watching GP mechs. how about labour costs?

 

Erm... appreciate much if you please don't anyhow change my name. Thanks.

 

All the vehicle mechanics here have to be graduates from the vehicle mechanic schools, like our ITE I think. They know their stuff.. good thing is they know how to use vernier calipers, micrometers and engine diagnostic equipment.

 

If you expect to find one workshop looking like LAB's workshop... the answer is no. They have tools cabinets and they don't throw tools all over the place. They don't use somebody's old T shirt as a rag but rather they use shop towels that come in a roll.

 

The only thing I ever have a mechanic done on my bike is to change out the tyres. When I sent the Marchesini rims to have the tyres mounted... it came back without a scratch and the mechanic actually carried the wheel out using a shop towel to hold the rim instead of his bare hands.

 

They have alot of pride in their work. They also charge alot for workmanship which goes by the hour... ie USD$80 per hour. They all use a manual which dictates how many man hours it takes to a certain job on a certain bike model. Its all by that book for every shop you go to... even if the book says it takes one man hour and he takes only 15 minutes to the same job.... you are charged one man hour for labour.

 

Mounting plus balancing 2 tyres on the rims cost me USD$25 per wheel. To do an engine oil change... its about USD$40.

 

Thats why most of the Americans here are all DIY people and their house garage is like a workshop.

 

My apartment living room looks like a workshop liao.

[ambasnakeman]

Erm... appreciate much if you please don't anyhow change my name. Thanks.

 

sincere apologies pal.

 

so its 40US + whatever engine oil prices????

[Hartholomew]

Dear Guru Hart,

Pls pardon me as I think that I really need to address you as Guru. Seriously,man.

 

Ok. It actually scares me when I am doing about 100km/hr on 4th Gear and when I clutch in and drop to 2nd gear (just prior entering corner time) and I clutch out, the RPM immediately jumps to 6000 or more.

I can really feel the engine being stress (from the way the engine/exhaust sound ) due to the high engine brakking due to quick drop gear from a high speed/RPM earlier.

This scares me that I might damage the engines or bend some parts as the manual says...do not drop gear at high speed as this will result in severe engine damage.

That's why I'm worried...worried of damaging the engine/gearbox etc etc.

Maybe I need more practice, liao and for sure more money to spare to repair the parts/engine in case any screw up. :cry:

 

Konichiwa Ninja,

 

Alrighty Then.

 

These bikes were made to run hard. Dont worry.

 

FYI, I blip my R1 to around 10,000 - 11,000 rpms when going down the box.

By the time you settle into the corner, the revs would be somewhere around 7-8000 rpms (on an R1 - thats where the power is)

 

These figures would be higher for a 600, especially a 2006 R6. It has a 17,500 rpm redline and experienced pilots will tell you that going under 10,000 rpms is going to leave you floundering.

 

The redline for an R1 is 14,750 rpms. I (And many others) have been doing this on my previous 3 bikes with no problems.

 

You are not going to damage anything, this is the way the bikes were made to run. But of course, the service intervals are going to get shorter, which is obvious cos you are using it harder.

 

My 1st Ninja ran 90,000 kms with no problems, my 2nd Ninja 60,000 kms, and my R1 has been on the track/Malaysia roads for the better part of its 30,000 km history. No problems.

 

Advanced Maintenance applies though:

 

Clutch plates wear out quicker - I change them every year

Valve clearance intervals cut to 15,000 kms to play safe

Chains stretch quicker - (get a DID 520 ERV3, they are bloody strong)

Fresh Engine Oil every 1000 Malaysian Kms, OR every race, OR every 3000 road km - This is my personal service schedule

 

As long as you dont "crunch" gears and time them well, your engine is NOT going to screw up.

 

Remember, riders screw up, bikes dont.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

[Raptor]

sincere apologies pal.

 

so its 40US + whatever engine oil prices????

 

Yep. The oils here are cheap and of many kinds and becoz of that I use Mobil One 20W/50 for bikes at USD$8 per litre. The DRZ takes only 1.9 litre with oil filter change.

[desmondekker]

haha, that's a crude reminder! but so damn true

 

Remember, riders screw up, bikes dont.

 

 

 

Hartholomew Mamola

[ninja10]

Konichiwa Ninja,

 

Alrighty Then.

 

These bikes were made to run hard. Dont worry.

 

FYI, I blip my R1 to around 10,000 - 11,000 rpms when going down the box.

By the time you settle into the corner, the revs would be somewhere around 7-8000 rpms (on an R1 - thats where the power is)

 

These figures would be higher for a 600, especially a 2006 R6. It has a 17,500 rpm redline and experienced pilots will tell you that going under 10,000 rpms is going to leave you floundering.

 

The redline for an R1 is 14,750 rpms. I (And many others) have been doing this on my previous 3 bikes with no problems.

 

You are not going to damage anything, this is the way the bikes were made to run. But of course, the service intervals are going to get shorter, which is obvious cos you are using it harder.

 

My 1st Ninja ran 90,000 kms with no problems, my 2nd Ninja 60,000 kms, and my R1 has been on the track/Malaysia roads for the better part of its 30,000 km history. No problems.

 

Advanced Maintenance applies though:

 

Clutch plates wear out quicker - I change them every year

Valve clearance intervals cut to 15,000 kms to play safe

Chains stretch quicker - (get a DID 520 ERV3, they are bloody strong)

Fresh Engine Oil every 1000 Malaysian Kms, OR every race, OR every 3000 road km - This is my personal service schedule

 

As long as you dont "crunch" gears and time them well, your engine is NOT going to screw up.

 

Remember, riders screw up, bikes dont.

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola

 

Dear Guru Hart,

 

Tks for the info.Will try to practice the same. Guess I need to get used to all the sudden heavy engine brakking that sounds like want to ripp off the engine/pistons. Ehmmm...will practice slowly slowly.

 

By the way, during in the corner (while cornering), while increasing the trottle slowly, I will also will slowly increase the counter steer in order to lean more.

I was told that by applying counter steering while in the corner, it will give more traction on the front tire.

If we turn the front into the turn (not counter steering), the bike will just loose the front and and have front slide.

But, if we apply counter steer while in the corner, this will give extra traction on the front tire.

So far I had not done any CSI yet...but just practise what I heard.

Is there any truth in this?

Will counter steer while cornering give the extra traction on the front?

Thank you.

[L.I.B]

just found these on google earth...amazing man....remaining parts of track blocked by clouds.....they even have track history....circuit length and ****

 

Turn 1 seems more steep to me now...an eye opener.

 

Really i din believe it would be like dat even with a circuit map in ma hands...

Which reveals why ma turn 1 is so screwed up....

[Hartholomew]

Dear Guru Hart,

 

Tks for the info.Will try to practice the same. Guess I need to get used to all the sudden heavy engine brakking that sounds like want to ripp off the engine/pistons. Ehmmm...will practice slowly slowly.

 

By the way, during in the corner (while cornering), while increasing the trottle slowly, I will also will slowly increase the counter steer in order to lean more.

I was told that by applying counter steering while in the corner, it will give more traction on the front tire.

If we turn the front into the turn (not counter steering), the bike will just loose the front and and have front slide.

But, if we apply counter steer while in the corner, this will give extra traction on the front tire.

So far I had not done any CSI yet...but just practise what I heard.

Is there any truth in this?

Will counter steer while cornering give the extra traction on the front?

Thank you.

 

Konichiwa Ninja,

 

Counter Steering, or knowing what the are the forces that produce counter steering is good and can go a long way.

 

For the benefit of all:

 

Counter Steering and it's effects was best documented (in my opinion) by Keith Code.

 

Keith proved that the product of Counter Steering, (pushing the right handlebar to lean right, and vice versa) was lean. At the time, it was widely thought that body english (riders using their body weight), was the sole input that made a bike lean.

 

To prove this, he built a "No BS" bike, which had the steering welded straight so that the handlebars could not turn at all. When ridden, it was extremely difficult to make the bike lean any farther of slightly of centre, while just using body english.

 

He then went on to experiment and prove that ALL riders, are sub-conciously using Counter Steering, they just did not know it. He then discovered that he could initiate lean (turn-in), with MUCH less effort and physical strength if he pushed on the handlbars. Knowing this improved a riders control and their speed in getting the bike into full lean.

 

There are many things that go into making a bike turn & lean. Turning, at low speed without lean, is the opposite of Counter Steering, the bike is mostly upright, but is turning because of the leading front tyre tracking to the left or right, the rear merely follows (like a car). Try it in a slow U-turn using little lean, or pushing your bike around the car park.

 

But at higher speeds, and due to the architecture and physics of a motorcycle, lean is used to turn the bike. Why? because at higher speeds, there is a little devil called "Centrifugal Force". That devil gets stronger and nastier the faster you go. If you were already at speed and tried to turn left with your handlebars, turning left (like you would when making a walking pace turn) the bike, would TRY to turn, but would lean in the opposite direction (right), because of the Centrifugal Force that was acting on it, originating from the inside of the corner to the outside (left to right in this case), causing the bike to lean to the right. This would be alright if we had wheels on the outside (right side), but then we would be in a car if that was so.

 

So, at higher speeds, we motorcyclists (being the geniuses we are) reverse the game on that devil (Centrifugal Force) by using Counter Steering, and use it to our advantage. We use that effect, to lean the bike INTO the turn, using the weight of the motorcycle to cancel out the effects and balance them, keeping it in equilibirum. That is one of the main reasons why bikes dont fall over. The bike still turns however, because it is running on a smaller radii of tyre (the edges of a tyre are smaller then the center and are slanted, like an ice cream cone place on its side.

 

The other reason is Gyroscopic Force of the spinning wheels - but that is a whole new can of worms.

 

Going on, Counter Steering is also used to bring a bike back up from lean. You dont know it but its true. Try it.

 

To answer your question, using Counter Steering is not going to get you any more grip in a corner. It is only going to help you get to full lean and back up quicker. However, it is true that Counter Steering to pick the bike back up when the front wheel is pushing, to avoid a fall, works. Eric Chia, Kelvin Chia, Peter Tan and many others do that to save front wheel slides.

 

Ask any of the super senior fast guys, they all will tell you to relax and not have a "death grip" on the bars. When you grip the bars that tight, all you are going to do is give the bike one more thing to worry about. You only input something into the bars if you want the bike to do something, like lean more, get back up, wheelie...etc... Thats why the fastest guys are the smoothest and relaxed. They get the bike leaned, LET THE BIKE do the work through the corner, tracking around it in the smoothest, tightest arc they can find.

 

To give the bike the best grip is to have a firm, but relaxed grip on the bars, because again, the way bikes are built, they are inherently stable at speed.

 

Bikes turn because that is what they do naturally, and putting any more force on the front tyre is just going to take away more grip, that could have been used to run through a corner faster.

 

In Conclusion, Counter Steering in a corner is just going to change the bike's lean. You STOP counter steering when you settle into your max lean. Be it 45 deg, or 15 deg. If you Counter Steer more, in either direction, the bike will react by changing its angle of lean - Not what you want.

 

Try it, find a nice empty roundabout and experiment at slow speeds to avoid any surprises. Have fun!

 

Tip: The rear brake is much more useful then alot may think!

 

Cheers,

 

Hartholomew Mamola