TP system flawed?

[k2kiwi]

Last month not long after national day I was cruising along PIE from Tuas towards Changi, I went pass two TP who pulled a jeep or SUV over under the SAFTI bridge. A few of my friends did too. We were of course doing below the limit because we already saw the TPs... But after I went pass the Pioneer Road North exit, which is a few min and 2.3km later, one of the TP caught up and pulled me over as well. He pulled out a box and showed me something which indicate the number 105 on a LED display and accused me of speeding under the bridge which had a road limit of 80km/h. It was his word against my words. The ticket was issued despite my plead and protest. I'm upset... because this brings about a lot of questions as to the standards of Singapore TP...

 

qns 1: How come a TP can just conclude that I am speeding by just showing me a LED display without further proof like a photo? (even neighbouring police has that, trust me, i have one in Kota Tinggi station)... i mean, he could have pulled out an alarm clock and i wouldn't know the difference.

 

qns 2: Is there a minimum distance for a TP to conclude an offence of a certain vehicle? I mean, with distance + the traffic + possible exits along the way = inaccuracy

 

qns 3: How can the TP be sure he caught the right vehicle based only upon naked vision?

 

qns 4: It was declared public by the TP spokesman that the authority has no "quota system", accepted. But how are the officers perfomance judged considering their job nature is not deskbound? What is included in their yearly appraisal? Is there no mention of how many tickets they've issued?

 

PM Lee during his national day rally hike on remaking Singapore, requesting that we speak up, improve service standards, put things right. My few words here is not meant to put the authority in bad light, but on a rather more positive note, would hopefully bring about healthy review of present system and protocols. I strongly believe Singapore can do better as we speak up. The system works for everybody, including the legistors themselves...

[konsandy]

Originally posted by k2kiwi@Sep 13 2005, 03:04 AM

Last month not long after national day I was cruising along PIE from Tuas towards Changi, I went pass two TP who pulled a jeep or SUV over under the SAFTI bridge. A few of my friends did too. We were of course doing below the limit because we already saw the TPs... But after I went pass the Pioneer Road North exit, which is a few min and 2.3km later, one of the TP caught up and pulled me over as well. He pulled out a box and showed me something which indicate the number 105 on a LED display and accused me of speeding under the bridge which had a road limit of 80km/h. It was his word against my words. The ticket was issued despite my plead and protest. I'm upset... because this brings about a lot of questions as to the standards of Singapore TP...

 

qns 1: How come a TP can just conclude that I am speeding by just showing me a LED display without further proof like a photo? (even neighbouring police has that, trust me, i have one in Kota Tinggi station)... i mean, he could have pulled out an alarm clock and i wouldn't know the difference.

 

qns 2: Is there a minimum distance for a TP to conclude an offence of a certain vehicle? I mean, with distance + the traffic + possible exits along the way = inaccuracy

 

qns 3: How can the TP be sure he caught the right vehicle based only upon naked vision?

 

qns 4: It was declared public by the TP spokesman that the authority has no "quota system", accepted. But how are the officers perfomance judged considering their job nature is not deskbound? What is included in their yearly appraisal? Is there no mention of how many tickets they've issued?

 

PM Lee during his national day rally hike on remaking Singapore, requesting that we speak up, improve service standards, put things right. My few words here is not meant to put the authority in bad light, but on a rather more positive note, would hopefully bring about healthy review of present system and protocols. I strongly believe Singapore can do better as we speak up. The system works for everybody, including the legistors themselves...

bro feel sory 4 u i also kana b4 i came out of old tampines rd into tpe but coz its 5pm a lot of heavy vehicles all never give way to me so i had to squeeze in & faster go to middle lane coz i scare kana bang by big heavy lorry then a bas***d taxi cut into my lane i go into left lane but coz i need to go to exit i quickly filter (but tp say i cut) back into right most lane ... i plead that i try to my best to avoid these incosideratr drivers but goddamned tp summon me instead of inconsiderate ...

 

what piss me off is his bad temper i say i just doing what i do to preserve my life also got summon y tp never summon all those heavy lorry never give way??

 

also there was a malaysian bike riding on road shoulder also never summon??

 

not TP fault it is s'pore culture that suz u drive mercs u win no one will summon u unless yr car fly onto mrt track...

 

i apeal also not use ... tp MOTO like PAP like gove moto no money i summon u; no money u die noboidy get a sh*t!

[konsandy]

BTW i sory to be plain straight u very stupid believe pm speech

[Guest nE0]

Too bad Singaporeans doesn't have personal rights like they do in USA.

 

Check out the National Motorist Association at:

 

http://www.motorists.org/

 

Good organization fighting for motorists' rights, and they also have a *ton* of information -- including a ticket-fighting "kit" that you can rent. I go to court for all my tickets, and have gotten all of them either reduced (both fine and points) or dismissed. It's not rocket science, but it does take an investment in time.

 

If you don't have the time to invest, or if your offense is serious -- reckless op, DUI, huge speed, or if you have any of those offenses, or a long string of speeding tickets on your record -- I'd recommend obtaining the services of an attorney who specializes in that area. But for "run of the mill" speeding/traffic tickets, you can do the same job on your own.

 

For the most part, tickets are written to generate revenue versus ensuring public safety. When you exercise your rights and fight a ticket, you've gone from revenue-positive to revenue-negative. In other words, you're now costing them money, and it's in their best interest to get you processed and out of the system as effeciently as possible. If you simply show up, most courts will offer a plea bargin as a matter of course.

 

And because of that, Singapore is very peaceful, cos no one dares to complain.

[k2kiwi]

Originally posted by konsandy@Sep 17 2005, 11:16 PM

BTW i sory to be plain straight u very stupid believe pm speech

haha... call me stupid or maybe even naive... from my point view, it's not about believing in him nor his speech, but rather the essence of it. Nothing short of a revolution would get any attention of great magnitude in Singapore, or anywhere else? In China, students get the point over but then again, they get run over by army tanks. I believe in the essence of speaking up little by little then to keep quiet. Silence equal stagnant.

 

In pre-capitalist China, the citizens were far more suppressed then we are here, yet they brave armor to stand up for their belief. U do know about how drips of water can crack a rock, do u? A good example is the "elephant cartoon" episode we had of recent... that is a damn good start. No doubt there's police intervention, but should that stop us from future protest even if there's blatant social frustration? Are we bred cowards, not willing to stand for our rights?

 

It's always easier to be an armchair critic...

[k2kiwi]

just to add... i'm giving feedback to TP, and meeting MPs... somebody's gonna speak up, why not me? Had Ghandi gave up when people his time told him it's impossible to fight the white man, India would still be a colony.

[R3sistor]

It could be likely that he clocked yr speed while he was trying to catch up with u.

Its like, u were travelling 80km, to catch u from the point he was at, he had to speed up, maybe 100km? 110km to be near you.. upon reaching u soon, he just clocked yr speed which was 105km/hr. Thats the only way i could figure out why he could show u 105km/hr.

Its very unfair in your situation, if i remembered correctly, they are supposed to follow you for about 400meters AT YR SPEED before they can stop you and say u'r speeding.

[comics00]

Originally posted by R3sistor@Sep 18 2005, 01:54 AM

It could be likely that he clocked yr speed while he was trying to catch up with u.

Its like, u were travelling 80km, to catch u from the point he was at, he had to speed up, maybe 100km? 110km to be near you.. upon reaching u soon, he just clocked yr speed which was 105km/hr. Thats the only way i could figure out why he could show u 105km/hr.

Its very unfair in your situation, if i remembered correctly, they are supposed to follow you for about 400meters AT YR SPEED before they can stop you and say u'r speeding.

really uh!? must follow 400m then can clock my speed!!!??? then that 2 times i kana caught i blur blur just pay the summon

1996 july: i was travelling on ECP in lane2 than a blo*dy nissan sunny from lane 1 cut into me from lane 1 rd almost knock me i got push to lane 3 & he still coming closer then realise he want to exit rochor rd without signal i speed up escape narrowly. then almost immediately ~5sec a TP appear & book me for speeding 137km/h even after i question him abt the sunny that never signal & almost knock into me he just inpatiently show me the metre, past me my summon & ZOom off infront of me

comment for friends r that 'cos i riding sports bike & the car was a saloon car that y i kana & not the car

[fleaz]

that's just unfair ain't it. but sad to say, there's nothing that we can do.

[RVFDES]

Originally posted by k2kiwi@Sep 18 2005, 01:04 AM

just to add... i'm giving feedback to TP, and meeting MPs... somebody's gonna speak up, why not me? Had Ghandi gave up when people his time told him it's impossible to fight the white man, India would still be a colony.

gd job bro...

[shaunz]

Originally posted by comics00@Sep 18 2005, 06:03 AM

really uh!? must follow 400m then can clock my speed!!!??? then that 2 times i kana caught i blur blur just pay the summon

1996 july: i was travelling on ECP in lane2 than a blo*dy nissan sunny from lane 1 cut into me from lane 1 rd almost knock me i got push to lane 3 & he still coming closer then realise he want to exit rochor rd without signal i speed up escape narrowly. then almost immediately ~5sec a TP appear & book me for speeding 137km/h even after i question him abt the sunny that never signal & almost knock into me he just inpatiently show me the metre, past me my summon & ZOom off infront of me

comment for friends r that 'cos i riding sports bike & the car was a saloon car that y i kana & not the car

omg.. how sway can u get?

seriously.. isnt there anything we can do to fight against unfair treatment from TPs? juz because they are police officers doesn't mean everything they say are right!

[comics00]

Originally posted by shaunz@Sep 18 2005, 11:25 PM

omg.. how sway can u get?

seriously.. isnt there anything we can do to fight against unfair treatment from TPs? juz because they are police officers doesn't mean everything they say are right!

ever try fighting for my last case where the ROV almost knock into me then book me for careless riding $150 & 6 points talk to the IO told him it was a clear case of the ROV speeding dam bloody fast between the lorries in lane 3 & 2 almost knock me! but IO say it is my words against the ROV, he will investigate & wait for letter. end result letter came still $150 & 6 points

* the fine dont remember clear but should ~$150

[k2kiwi]

put it this way... our tax money is paying the TP's salary. And due to the fact that their pay is tax money, they have to work hard to prove it's worth the while of tax-payer's contribution. and they work even harder when there's performance bonus and their ranking is round the corner. in another word, we are paying the TPs to come after us. bottomline, we have every right to give feedback and demand positive improvement. it's not a fight, but rather a movement.

 

it's a lot of trouble... it's going to be slow moving, but i'm moving... but if a lot of us move together, then it'll be a lot different. you'll see.

[Alexander2004]

Aiya this is singapore,where law the biggest , unless you are rich and famous ,if not then just have to suck thumb

[Guest R1szuan]

so in short you have doubt over the TP in spore or there is no intergrity in TP??

 

*not pro tp or police*

 

i would like to see some positive feedback on this.. i too kena caught speeding but then due to no money i just pay up the fine..12 pts and 700bucks fine... SIAN MAN>...

[k2kiwi]

the thing is... I DID NOT SPEED!!! i do speed sometimes when i'm in a rush or something, and if i'm caught those times, i've nothing to say and all i could do is plead for leniency. but this time i'm damn sure i did not speed and yet was pulled over, so yes, i do question the integrity of the TP would fined me. but i do not blame that particular TP, i blame the system. becos the system gave him the convinence... he is afterall just human...

[madman]

It's really hard to put a commoner's words against that of an enforcement officer. Only way is thru evidence, and in many many many instances, you dont have that.

 

They can book you w/o stopping you. And one "fine" day, you recieve a summon for an offence for example :speeding or reckless riding. What do you wanna do? Appeal? You're not going to be successful in appealing, unless you are able to prove with evidence you are not at the scene at the time you are being "booked".

 

Some enforcement officers "may" misuse their "special" power such as this invested in them, but it's just some. Most are ok.

 

An example is you just overtaken a car recklessly, most driver who complained to the the TP, nothing will be done. Cos it's your word against mine (and both are just commoners) and the IO wont know who is at fault really.

 

But, if the driver is an off-duty officer (be it TP or not) who reported it, then you will definately get booked! Just that most are not so on to report, as it involves some cumbersome paper work etc...

[k2kiwi]

yup, the system allows the power to be abused and therefore is flawed, in my point of view. this means that the TP can just slap almost any face he dun like as long as they have a vehicle.

[madman]

Originally posted by k2kiwi@Sep 21 2005, 11:30 PM

yup, the system allows the power to be abused and therefore is flawed, in my point of view. this means that the TP can just slap almost any face he dun like as long as they have a vehicle.

well, you shd be glad the local officers arent anywhere close to those of neighbouring countries.

 

in your instance, I hope there's some way you can prove your innocence, but at the moment, I think there's no way you can do that.

 

i kena before as well, by a qx civilian car, just becos i had overtaken his vehicle, he was not happy, stopped me and f-ed me, then was booked for reckless riding weeks later by TP. what to do? your words and his words...

 

I had signalled somemore...but I'm glad there are not many like that, and hope ppl like him who abused that power will be punished by the very system that gave him that power.

[kish_garfield]

thing is i nv like seeing TP even if i had often meet into them b4. prev when i was riding a sports bike super beng and color striking, i was booked for speeding. yes i was too fast. close to 90 on 70 road at mandai. no vehicles on road. with one hand. i didnt even know i was at that speed. too slow class 2 bike will jerk. basket worse still he ask me go appeal. i went to TP HQ on same day then kanna F by the guy in the room. KNN. The best thing is the guy who summon me is lower rank than me if i not wrong. for info i was a NSF corporal nia.?????

 

but funny i have been riding tourin bike for a yr or so and so far had been lucky to go pass TP but wasnt stopped. Why?????

[RetlaW]

Originally posted by kish_garfield@Sep 22 2005, 05:41 AM

thing is i nv like seeing TP even if i had often meet into them b4. prev when i was riding a sports bike super beng and color striking, i was booked for speeding. yes i was too fast. close to 90 on 70 road at mandai. no vehicles on road. with one hand. i didnt even know i was at that speed. too slow class 2 bike will jerk. basket worse still he ask me go appeal. i went to TP HQ on same day then kanna F by the guy in the room. KNN. The best thing is the guy who summon me is lower rank than me if i not wrong. for info i was a NSF corporal nia.?????

 

but funny i have been riding tourin bike for a yr or so and so far had been lucky to go pass TP but wasnt stopped. Why?????

cpl???

army cpl or police cpl????

btw... i dun see lcp in police too.....

[w00t]

i support your point la

some TP c*** up

some very kuku

and some traffic laws are stupid and makes no sense at all, out there to waste civilants money, time and effort.

 

I see them like that F up any how only i also not happy, but i notice many people in the forum are still very supportive of such stupid ACTs by TP and their STUPID LAWs, that i dont vant to reply to those thread anymore.

 

I dont understand why singaporeans like to keep quiet, sorry sorry ok my fault, you fine me you revoke me you jail me nevermind, behaving like abused dogs.

 

STAND UP PLEASE! AGAINST ALL THESE UNFAIRNESS.

 

 

We should Mass appeal, claim back more govt $ and catch these kuku's on the spot with your camcorder, cameras, voice recorders and blah blah blah.

 

[L. Da Vinci]

Useless lah... We just one by one immigrate lah... This country is turning from bad to worse.

[k2kiwi]

Originally posted by kish_garfield@Sep 22 2005, 05:41 AM

thing is i nv like seeing TP even if i had often meet into them b4. prev when i was riding a sports bike super beng and color striking, i was booked for speeding. yes i was too fast. close to 90 on 70 road at mandai. no vehicles on road. with one hand. i didnt even know i was at that speed. too slow class 2 bike will jerk. basket worse still he ask me go appeal. i went to TP HQ on same day then kanna F by the guy in the room. KNN. The best thing is the guy who summon me is lower rank than me if i not wrong. for info i was a NSF corporal nia.?????

 

but funny i have been riding tourin bike for a yr or so and so far had been lucky to go pass TP but wasnt stopped. Why?????

hahaha... i'm riding a sports bike too! i'm getting a harley then if i can really get them off my back... damn, it just like racism... or rather bikism, hahaha....

[299]

TP check for illegal visiors but they summon those who don't meet up to their standards. Those who bought the visors kanna caught by those shops but who to blame if the shop says tat it's legal.

 

So the loophole is tat even if the rider is right, he still hv to admit he's at wrong in TP's eyes.