ERP rates affecting motorbikers

[BlowToEnhance]

Correct me if I'm wrong... One of the reason that the ministry increasing the rates and putting up more gantry is becos of the traffic congestion... But do we motorbikers contributing to the congestion Do we contribute to the same level of air pollutions as the four-wheels vehicle

They want to promote public transport but it is more cost/time saving for to ride my bike.

Is there a way to sent this message to the ministry? If they want to penalise drivers... go ahead... but don't penalise us riders:(

[diddy the patient]

we, complain , many many also no point... so be it mannn

[shawntai]

ai ya at first government say add ERP to reduce the traffice congestion. after years of many * $$ * finally they show the true colour. Then they extend the morning peak period after that night period also . Now they adding so SO Much more ERP gantries is to prove wat ? Squeeze out all the juciy we have

[ahcongie]

ture!! go where also kana erp sian liao! prepare to burn some money to erp gantry

[chiam]

No matter what we cannot beat the system . If today they want to make us pay 3 COEs for our bike we also lan lan right?

[BlowToEnhance]

When Mr Raymond Lim - Minister of Transport gave speech in the parliment on 06 Mar 2008... it seem that one of their aim is to squeeze motorists and collect revenues. But we motorbikers are the one affected most... R they helping us???

[ahcongie]

this kind of thing we also cannot do anything about it y bother..? complain also no much effect .. government say put means put. we LppL liao

[BlackDawn]

When Mr Raymond Lim - Minister of Transport gave speech in the parliment on 06 Mar 2008... it seem that one of their aim is to squeeze motorists and collect revenues. But we motorbikers are the one affected most... R they helping us???

 

Care to elaborate more on this? I'm curious to know...

[xyoshiki]

“Why ERP?” The popular answer, like Mr Low Thia Khiang said, is to collect revenue. Just put up a gantry on the road and collect money. It is a popular answer, but it flies against the facts. Since 1998, every time we adjusted the ERP system and relied more on usage charges, we have brought down ownership costs quite significantly. The annual revenue foregone on combined vehicle ownership tax cuts - ARF, excise duty and road taxes - came up to more than $1.2 billion every year on a permanent basis. ERP revenue currently only comes up to about $100 million per year. So it is not a revenue measure but a congestion measure.

 

SPEECH BY MR RAYMOND LIM,

 

MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT

 

AND SECOND MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

 

ON LAND TRANSPORT (PART 2)

 

AT THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY DEBATE,

 

ON 6 MARCH 2008

 

 

It is widely recognised throughout the world (you can find plenty of academics or foreign governments papers on congestion pricing) that Singapore's ERP system is a system purely aims at congestion alleviation.

 

The next question and perhaps a more correct question is whether motorcyclists should be subject to ERP. The approach taken is very simple given the availability and cost of technology. They assume a certain space a motorcycle will take and price it accordingly against the ERP cost of a car.

[BlowToEnhance]

I guess my statement is not right... Maybe only i am affected. I am using CTE daily and the max i got to pay is $3.50 for return trips. It do hurts my pocket. The total amount for a month is equivalent to a month's petrol (pumps in My).

But do you think we should pay 50% of car rates?

In the website http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/motoring_erp.htm , under heading Benefit, it clearly states that "Fair :- Charges are based on usage so those who contribute more to the congestion pay more." But do motorbikers contribute to the congestion? We should pay less than 50% of the car rates.

[xyoshiki]

I guess my statement is not right... Maybe only i am affected. I am using CTE daily and the max i got to pay is $3.50 for return trips. It do hurts my pocket. The total amount for a month is equivalent to a month's petrol (pumps in My).

But do you think we should pay 50% of car rates?

In the website http://www.lta.gov.sg/motoring_matters/motoring_erp.htm , under heading Benefit, it clearly states that "Fair :- Charges are based on usage so those who contribute more to the congestion pay more." But do motorbikers contribute to the congestion? We should pay less than 50% of the car rates.

 

Just thinking have you ever think of switching to public transport (if possible). My job does not require me to ride and for convenience, I will ride only when I have night classes. Singapore's public transport may not be as good as those in Hong Kong, Tokyo or Seoul, but nonetheless more than decent. Hopefully, public transport will improve given the upcoming new infrastructure and regulatory framework.

 

For fairness, we have to consider from a number of points. It is true that a small bike (e.g. wave, sp) is unlikely to contribute 50% of what a normal size car may contribute to congestion. However, there may also be a big bike which occupy a whole lane just like a car as well. If we don't take into account "squeezing" and "unorderly", 2 bikes roughly can take the space of a normal size car for safe traveling.

 

To have IUs for different bike size will push up the IUs cost, monitoring cost and enforcement cost, etc. If vehicle size scanning is used, it will push up the cost of the ERP system. It is the same for cars. Saw a 2 seater small car.....but it going to pay the same ERP as a full size car.

 

At the end of the day, subjective judgment of convenience would need to be undertaken for ERP pricing.

[ahcongie]

no matter wad in singapore u muz pay! go toilet also nid pay now.. no free lunch in here !

[skyscorcher]

The government use the army to teach you how to deal with things, when u kena such sh!t, Just have to LLST(Lan Lan Suck Thumb). Haha.. Joking.

 

But for me I either wake up early to go for classes at 8 or I wait till 9 to skip just 1 ERP.

Luckily only cheap cheap 25 cents at one gantry for me .

But if really got tests and must rush, then really have to chiong thru 2 lo.

But everytime 25 or 50 cents over the long run is no joke. I really feel for those bros who have to go thru the more exp gantries in the city everyday.

[compfused]

I bet they have somethin up their sleeves..Soon we will have a gantry every 50m..

[arsie]

“Why ERP?” The popular answer, like Mr Low Thia Khiang said, is to collect revenue. Just put up a gantry on the road and collect money. It is a popular answer, but it flies against the facts. Since 1998, every time we adjusted the ERP system and relied more on usage charges, we have brought down ownership costs quite significantly. The annual revenue foregone on combined vehicle ownership tax cuts - ARF, excise duty and road taxes - came up to more than $1.2 billion every year on a permanent basis. ERP revenue currently only comes up to about $100 million per year. So it is not a revenue measure but a congestion measure.

 

SPEECH BY MR RAYMOND LIM,

 

MINISTER FOR TRANSPORT

 

AND SECOND MINISTER FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS,

 

ON LAND TRANSPORT (PART 2)

 

AT THE COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY DEBATE,

 

ON 6 MARCH 2008

 

 

It is widely recognised throughout the world (you can find plenty of academics or foreign governments papers on congestion pricing) that Singapore's ERP system is a system purely aims at congestion alleviation.

 

The next question and perhaps a more correct question is whether motorcyclists should be subject to ERP. The approach taken is very simple given the availability and cost of technology. They assume a certain space a motorcycle will take and price it accordingly against the ERP cost of a car.

 

That is the problem, isn't it? It has brought car ownership costs down. With their stated increase of cars on the road at the rate of 1.5% per year, there are more cars now than before. Adding on top of this, low down payment and the 10 year loan period. People who never used to be able to afford cars can do so now.

 

Lets see, a person pay $35k+++(Cherry QQ ) and the government expects him not to drive through the ERP to reduce congestions? The slightly lower ownership costs together with the limited 10 year expectancy of a car because of COE, means that people still cannot afford NOT to drive the car they have bought, because they are burning 3-10k a year just for the car to sit there.

 

It is not as if Singapore has a countryside for people to drive around in. The vast majority of Singaporeans work in a few clusters of business and industrial areas, and those places will inevitably have congestion.

 

As long as the public transport system does not buck up, there's no end to the congestion, and ERP will inevitably just become a revenue generating scheme.

[scoobydoo]

imagine a future where all ERP gantries are gone... but in comes the GPS toll system. everything is tracked by computers through GPS enabled IU transponders sending data to LTA's computers:

 

move your bike? pay

speeding? pay & kenna points (no uncle sam, speed cam or radar gun)

beat red lights? pay & kenna points (no need traffic cam)

ride in bus lane restricted hours? pay (no need cisco & camera)

stop at coupon parking lots? pay (no need coupons at all)

 

The system has been operational in Germany for a few years and i wouldn't bet against the idea of governments using it on cars and motorbikes when the technology and cost matures.

GPS-BASED TOLL SYSTEM (GERMANY)

In January 2005 a new toll system was introduced on the 12,000km of German autobahn for all trucks with a maximum weight of 12t and above.

 

The toll system will not be based on toll booths or plazas on the highways themselves but instead will work via several methods: On Board Units (OBU), manual payment terminals and via the internet.

 

OBUs work via GPS and the on-board odometer or tachograph as a back-up to determine how far the lorries have travelled by reference to a digital map and GSM to authorise the payment of the toll via a wireless link.

 

Manual payment is available for those vehicles not equipped with an OBU; there will be over 3,500 toll payment terminals at motorway service stations or rest areas where drivers can enter the details of their journey and pay the toll in advance (only in Euros if it is cash, or by using a credit card or oil company/fuel card) and receive a ticket receipt.

 

For those drivers who would like to pay the toll well in advance there is also the option of paying via the Internet.

 

In addition to 300 toll checker gantries strategically located throughout the country, Toll Enforcement will also rely on mobile patrols, consisting of a fleet of 300 vehicles with 540 officers of the Federal Office of Freight (BAG). The officers will patrol the autobahns, checking vehicles and drivers to see if they have paid the toll or have the OBU installed (these vehicles will be equipped with an infrared short range DSRC (Dedicated Short Range Communications) system that can be used to scan and monitor trucks in motion). The BAG will have police powers to request trucks to stop for examination at any point during their journey.

 

The autobahn system will also have a 300 gantries equipped with IR detection equipment and high resolution cameras able to pick out trucks via profiling (and record number plates). These send a DSRC signal to a DSRC transponder (which are part of the OBU) in the lorry to check on the accuracy of the GPS as a back-up and also alert BAG officers to toll violations. The OBU will also be able to work with the new Galileo satellite system for positioning (fully operational 2008) which is being developed in Europe as a more accurate alternative to GPS. As of January 2005 over 300,000 vehicles had been fitted with OBUs but the target for the end of the year is well over 500,000.

[swirlacer]

the gps system is bound to hit a wall with motorist in every country. why? privacy. imagine the govt noes whr u are, what u r doing, ur speed and the likes. Isnt that invasion of privacy? just look at London, they are fighting against all this kinda of bullshit. but singaporeans? sit down and tok ****. reflects something abt ur true govt policies lor. fleadom of speech my ass.

[ma0ma0z]

i dun tink they wil be so cb bah .. if they realli use tat GPS system .. juz imagine .. alot uncle sam n wat so ever will kena sack .. so i dun tink government wil do tat bah ..

[cyben76]

I find it ok that at least they are trying their best to reduce road congestion. Imagine no ERP no COE, everyone would buy car and bike.. Road would be super congested like in KL and Jakarta..

 

If cant afford, dont ride or drive.. Last time when i drive and go onsite, before they put up so many gantries.. One day can use $10 or more, not inclusive or parking charges, eventhough i always try go town only between 10-12pm...

 

Now i just stick to riding, petrol all the way pump in SG. Good thing is i dont work in CBD area... If i need to go anywhere in town during my off day, i would just take public transport.. Save the trouble of squeezing thru traffic finding parking, avoid fines and stolen bike parts...

 

Everyday ride also sian, 1-2times a week take public transport then ride, make riding more enjoyable and u will start appreciate havin a bike....

 

We cant always compare with oth countries, singapore tiny dot with so many ppl and limited land.. Everyone wants to have their own transport...

[scoobydoo]

... imagine the govt noes whr u are, what u r doing, ur speed and the likes. Isnt that invasion of privacy? ...

that's probably a little weak to constitute an invasion of privacy

 

anyway, even walking around naked inside own home can kenna fine. peeping tom invading the naked fellas' privacy but its the victim that gets fined... funny privacy policy yeah ... hahahaha

[jeffrey83]

definetely Bikes are been beefed out..... so innocent.

 

i stay at amk...work place at Tanjong pagar....

 

Suck thumb lor..

[Non Stop Racing]

down to lim !!!!!!!!!!!

[FY]

LTA annaunced that they will expand CTE AMK section with one more lane next year, and i think one new NS expressway had also been proposed......that's the things i want to see, not just put more gantry and increase rates! There's lots of ways to improve traffic capacity even in a small land like singapore, only pain is you got to spend $$$