Bike Sold me a Totalled bike.

[eesymerej]

Went to this bike shop after they advertised that the have an a very good condition bike that I have been looking for.

 

After taking over the bike, I went to the agent for servicing and was informed that the bike has previously been involved in a serious accident and is totalled and written off by the insurance company.

 

Apparently, the bike shop bought it as a salvage, do it up and pass the bike off as a perfectly functioning bike.

 

Anyone has some REAL experience please?

[hachi]

Maybe is just the number plate?

Can a totaled be sold again?

[MR BIKER]

A few well known shop are very good at this marketing strategy. mostly bikes like this are scooter and full fairing bikes where they will colour and do slight cosmetic change to the bike. its your knowledge , skill and instinct of bikes to know whether the bike is good or not. do not get cheated by the outer covering like the old saying DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER.

 

I suspect the shop is big in singapore, right? no need to answer. can just pm me

[eesymerej]

Chassis number, engine number and number plate all match the totalled machine.

 

Bike shop admitted they bought from insurer's authorised workshop

 

Liberty insurance paid out $35k to owner. Bike shop bought the totalled machine for peanuts and resell it for $30k after dressing up and concealing the damages.

 

Maybe is just the number plate?

Can a totaled be sold again?

[teambhp]

Bike shop name?

 

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[xfreaker]

Mak them famous..

 

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[teambhp]

Mak them famous..

 

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Yep

 

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[mechwira]

Maybe is just the number plate?

Can a totaled be sold again?

 

exactly what i want to know too.

 

i had thought that when an insurer writes off a totalled bike, the bike is deregistered and scrapped. if deregistered means no more COE cannot operate or sell.

 

so now i know, instead of being deregistered, it can still be held on by the workshop and sold. in which case the bike shop didn break any law. your only protection is Lemon Law if the bike falls apart soon after purchase.

 

then again, we have to remember, "write-off" does not necessarily mean the bike was a complete wreck. it just means that based on the insurer's assessment, the cost of repair is more than the market price of the bike. it could well be that its an old bike with low market price and the replacement parts are expensive and not worth repairing.

[teambhp]

Can ts provide more information

 

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[hachi]

Chassis number, engine number and number plate all match the totalled machine.

 

Bike shop admitted they bought from insurer's authorised workshop

 

Liberty insurance paid out $35k to owner. Bike shop bought the totalled machine for peanuts and resell it for $30k after dressing up and concealing the damages.

 

30k? Sport bikes or Touring bikes? You should be more careful and of course bring someone to view the bike.

I always buy my bikes from private sellers. If the bike is total whack they don't put on sale or would just give you a big discount.

Most bikes can be repaired, just that don't ever push it to the limit, like going to track. Coz the alignment and the integrity of the frame and swing arm is longer sound.

[eesymerej]

It is apparently perfectly legal to repair and sell a totalled, written off bike to unsuspecting buyers.

 

As legal action has been initiated, I am not at liberty to reveal too much. I have a recorded telephone conversation with insurer that the bike has had its front end totally ripped off from the frame and is no longer deemed safe. The high probability of catastrophic failure is why it was written off.

 

What their authorised workshop then do with the bike is entirely up to those ah bengs.

 

It is causing me much distress because the shop challenges me to sue him as he claims he has done nothing wrong.

 

This is an Italian super-bike costing close to $45k just a year ago. I bought for $30k. When it's too good to be true. It usually is.

 

exactly what i want to know too.

 

i had thought that when an insurer writes off a totalled bike, the bike is deregistered and scrapped. if deregistered means no more COE cannot operate or sell.

 

so now i know, instead of being deregistered, it can still be held on by the workshop and sold. in which case the bike shop didn break any law. your only protection is Lemon Law if the bike falls apart soon after purchase.

 

then again, we have to remember, "write-off" does not necessarily mean the bike was a complete wreck. it just means that based on the insurer's assessment, the cost of repair is more than the market price of the bike. it could well be that its an old bike with low market price and the replacement parts are expensive and not worth repairing.

[mechwira]

It is apparently perfectly legal to repair and sell a totalled, written off bike to unsuspecting buyers.

 

As legal action has been initiated, I am not at liberty to reveal too much. I have a recorded telephone conversation with insurer that the bike has had its front end totally ripped off from the frame and is no longer deemed safe. The high probability of catastrophic failure is why it was written off.

 

What their authorised workshop then do with the bike is entirely up to those ah bengs.

 

It is causing me much distress because the shop challenges me to sue him as he claims he has done nothing wrong.

 

This is an Italian super-bike costing close to $45k just a year ago. I bought for $30k. When it's too good to be true. It usually is.

 

holy crap....

 

not only was the write-off in this case due to potential catastrophic failure.... its an italian exotica. meaning the punk shop wouldn have bothered even using original parts for replacement coz that would have been expensive.

 

i'd be interested in the results of the legal proceedings. i dun mean to be pessimistic, but in your shoes i wouldn be certain if i could win on legal grounds. the problem as i see it is lemon law comes into effect only if the product fails, and not merely its potential to fail. i presume you can easily obtain expert letter from the distributor claiming that the bike indeed had potential for catastrophic failure. what i'm interested in is whether the judge/court would consider that valid against the shop if the bike has NOT yet failed.

[GuiNNeSS]

Hi, keep us updated.

 

Even I am interested. Such unethical salesperson!

[kaiq]

Seems like now we need to prove the machine is "detective" and has no "indication of defective condition" to the buyer at the point of sales.

 

The recording is useful for the "defective" part. Now to see the contract, invoice, packaging, etc on the "indication" part.

 

Me not lawyer, just some of my ideas here.

 

https://www.case.org.sg/pdf/Lemon%20Law%20FAQs.pdf

[hachi]

It is apparently perfectly legal to repair and sell a totalled, written off bike to unsuspecting buyers.

 

As legal action has been initiated, I am not at liberty to reveal too much. I have a recorded telephone conversation with insurer that the bike has had its front end totally ripped off from the frame and is no longer deemed safe. The high probability of catastrophic failure is why it was written off.

 

What their authorised workshop then do with the bike is entirely up to those ah bengs.

 

It is causing me much distress because the shop challenges me to sue him as he claims he has done nothing wrong.

 

This is an Italian super-bike costing close to $45k just a year ago. I bought for $30k. When it's too good to be true. It usually is.

Hmm.. I feel your pain. Anyway if I remembered correct there is one Italian make superbike that is not using frame as the whole sub frame is bolted to the engine. I know most alloy frame cannot be welded back. But this make might be different.

Get expert opinions or even to the dealer for an assessment, with the document you might have a case. Like I mentioned, if you used it for bling factors and to commute shouldn't post too much of a risk.

Parts they used should be original as it is too new for OEM or 3rd party to fabricate. We all know there are unscrupulous shops around, if the prices are too good, then we should suspect.

[mechwira]

I started reading the Lemon Law document in more detail because of TS's story.

 

I take back what I said earlier about Lemon Law taking effect only when the product fails. Careful reading of the document shows otherwise (link provided earlier by @kaiq)

 

Discounted products or sale items, with slight defects or limitations are not

excluded from the law, but any defects or limitations of these goods should be pointed out to

the consumer before the transaction, and the retailer would not be held liable for them.

 

clearly the shop did not disclose the defect to the buyer (TS)

 

"Satisfactory Quality" includes their state and condition, as well as the following aspects:

 

 

(a) fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly

supplied;

(b) appearance and finish;

© freedom from minor defects; (d) safety; and (e) durability

 

clearly (d) and (e) has been breached by the shop, assuming expert testimony is obtained from distributor and/or insurer.

[hachi]

I started reading the Lemon Law document in more detail because of TS's story.

 

I take back what I said earlier about Lemon Law taking effect only when the product fails. Careful reading of the document shows otherwise (link provided earlier by @kaiq)

 

 

 

clearly the shop did not disclose the defect to the buyer (TS)

 

 

 

clearly (d) and (e) has been breached by the shop, assuming expert testimony is obtained from distributor and/or insurer.

Good findings. Good info for all of us.

[guangwei]

A few well known shop are very good at this marketing strategy. mostly bikes like this are scooter and full fairing bikes where they will colour and do slight cosmetic change to the bike. its your knowledge , skill and instinct of bikes to know whether the bike is good or not. do not get cheated by the outer covering like the old saying DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER.

 

I suspect the shop is big in singapore, right? no need to answer. can just pm me

 

Uh, I'm sure this is no 'marketing'. This is distinctive 'cheating'

[slowrider]

And I thought your LTA was so concerned about road safety that they harped and ADVERTISED BOLDLY about ROAD SAFETY being compromised when vehicles are MODIFIED but apparently to them 'REBORN' TOTALED VEHICLES' are not much of a concern to them.

 

70% gave their thumbs up for such practice with LTA turning a blind eye, did you too?

[smallcar]

I will sue both the bike shop and the insurance company. As insurance company have totalled the bike and they took out to sell to bike shop. 30k sport bike when frame already affected will pose risk to rider. I will go all out to get both of them.

[nicky boy]

HI TS,

 

After reading all this, i pray that you should win in this case

[di_andrei]

I will sue both the bike shop and the insurance company. As insurance company have totalled the bike and they took out to sell to bike shop. 30k sport bike when frame already affected will pose risk to rider. I will go all out to get both of them.

 

I don't think the insurance company is at fault, I think it's reasonable to sell totaled vehicles - from their point of view it could be sold for scrap or parts. It's the shop that is being dishonest.

[guangwei]

Any updates?

 

Guess TS lost, thats why kept quiet since..

 

Can pm shop name and salesperson name?

[dragous]

just my 2cents worth:

1) lemon law largely covers new equipment. 2nd hand will sold as it is, but still cover some warranty. in this case, buyer "accepts" as it is when signed. (should have fine print somewhere)

 

2) legal action will take some time. but before any court action, usually both parties lawyer will propose an agreement.

 

3) totalled for insurer case, as said, is based in the repair cost. if repair cost is high, they can totalled the vehicle and compensate market value.

in this case, nothing wrong with insurance side. bike sold to their workshop as workshop willing to buy over is also nothing wrong. same as re-condition the bike and sell off as 2nd hand bike. but if sell as 1st hand bike will be different case.

 

that's y the shop so yaya and dare u to sue them. it's the same when someone buang badly, repair and sell off, and new buyer happily buy. so lemon law, in some extend, not really cover 2nd hand vehicles.

 

notice they use "totalled" and not "scrap"

[kaiq]

https://www.case.org.sg/pdf/Lemon%20Law%20FAQs.pdf

 

Read Q2, 3 and 5. mechwira has basically summarised what the shop has breached.