Aprilia Riders

[mesab0ogie]

I think its naive to think that 2nd hand tyres are inferior. If thats the case then there wouldnt be a 2nd hand tyre business. But thats not the case, 2nd hand tyres is a big business. So then there must be lost of accidents due to inferior tyres, right? But thats not the case either. I for one, know lots of friends/family whose use 2nd hand tyres, for both cars and bikes. And so far no one has met an early death because of that.

 

Tyres that are considered "used" and "unsuitable" for track does not equate to them being inferior or "spoilt" and a cause for an "increase in mortality rate" In fact, with dual compound on tyres nowadays, some tyres will still have thousands of km of road life span even after use on track. There are many reasons why there are 2nd hand tyres. Some people change relatively new tyres on brand new bikes to different brands or types for their own specific purposes. Some people change tyres because they change their rims to a different size(more related to cars). Serious trackies change tyres often, as scrubbed down tyres cost them precious seconds in lap times. In fact, many times I've seen tyres which look really new with lost of threads left but are sold as 2nd hand. I quote Adam Shelton, a dude from TJ Tuning forums and is an Aprilia Superteens rider who sells his used competition control tyres online, as saying that a 30 lap tyre "will cost 1 second per lap", which is the reason why his tyres are changed often. But for those who have no need for that 1 second advantage, the tyres are far from being "spoilt" or inferior.

 

That being said, the onus should be on the buyer to check the used tyres carefully, and make sure theres no major defects like punctures or insufficient thread depth. To me 2nd hand tyres, provided they are in good condition, is not a problem and i will gladly use them for both road and track if i ever come across any good ones at decent prices.

[lacrimosae]

I'm curious about the choke because the effect I achieve from using the choke seems different from yours. Instead of high RPM, my bike dies upon start up if I do not throttle (normal startup with no choke) The user manual mentioned that bike should start without throttling hence I'm a little concern about this. When the choke is applied, the RPM increases instead of come down like yours. I also notice when i use the choke, I have lots of white smoke coming out my exhaust.

 

On my new spark plug, I drag every gear to 6000 then shift up and cruise at 5000 to 6000 rpm. Checked my plug at after 50km. covered in a layer of soot already. scraped as much soot I can off the plug and replaced it. I'll try going at 7000 rpm next and monitor my plug to see if it helps. I travel on normal roads and at 3rd gear i'm already at the speed limit at 6000 rpm :/

 

Also, I notice at on 2nd gear, the engine tends to jerk and sputter at 5000 climbing to 6000 rpm. Is this the flat zone effect that has been mentioned many times here? This seems less pronounced on gear 3 onwards

 

Thanks for all the answers!

 

Using the choke richens the mixture, hence more white smoke.

 

I ride above 140kph most of the time.

 

Bogging is when the bike makes a muffled gurgling sound and has little to no increase in power.

 

Stuttering is when the bike seems to stutter, or jerk rapidly, but not necessarily mean a lack of power, just imperfect carburetion and the other jets have to compensate for the progression circuit.

 

The flat spot commonly mentioned is when the bike suffers from a lack of power due to the change in ignition mapping at the specific rev range. Sometimes, one or both of the symptoms like bogging (lack of power) and stuttering (jerking) is experienced.

 

Any of you RS champions want to do a 10.30am PG session next Tuesday? I'm very much a noob, so it'll not be an intense session.

 

PG calendar looks empty for that day and weather for the morning is predicted to be sunny/cloudy.

 

I am looking at towing my bike there and back like last time and possibly hitching a ride with the towers. If you want to come along tower-style, let me know. Otherwise I can always meet you there.

 

@lacrimosae: No more track days now that you're thinking of selling? I will probably sell mine nearer the end of the year before I move back to NZ, but will want to track between now and then.

 

On the contrary, I will be trying to squeeze in as many track sessions as possible.

I'm not around next Tue. Wed or Thurs ok for you?

 

HAHA, now tts where u got ur signature from... very informative law, thanx 4 sharing!

 

Feelicks, what signature?

 

On tires, I believe in getting a fresh set. I don't know why. Maybe because I simply don't like to chew on other people's used chewing gum. Got no flavour left. hahahaha

 

Also, since the ARC forum is up, I will only answer technical queries there from now on.

 

The last time it was shut down was partially due to a lack of interest in technical knowledge. So if you people think its a good resource for knowledge and want to keep it up and running, show your support and readership by posting there. Otherwise, it may just be shut down for good. And then we'll really lose something in our community that even money cannot buy.

[Zai TZM]

Totally agree with mesaboogie.. Nicely said ..

[Ajik]

Interesting...

 

Why would you get a illegal, non-homologated Arrow from PJME, and risk getting caught and fined $700 for using an unapproved, illegal exhaust, when you can get an Arrow locally which includes the legal certification.

 

Hey there.. Thanks for the advise. I've compared the local arrow price is too x for me n pjme is selling half the price here. Once its in i'll get my mech to do the inspection.

[lacrimosae]

Hey there.. Thanks for the advise. I've compared the local arrow price is too x for me n pjme is selling half the price here. Once its in i'll get my mech to do the inspection.

 

Oic... You mean forge a homologation certificate? And also bribe the inspectors at the inspection centre? No certificate = fail.

 

'Cause you can't get the certificate from anyone besides BikeTech... I'll give you more details if this was in the ARC forum.

[vemonstorm]

Hi. I wanna own an Aprilla RS125. So I'm looking for some1 that finding people to continue their installment. If any riders wanna let go their bike, please kindly SMS their bike details to me at 97990977.

[mesab0ogie]

OMG im starting to sort the stuff now and DAMN, its tough! Most of the items are not labelled. Gona have to look through the site to check the items one by one. Sian. And PJME's packing is horrible. I mean their packing is very secure with lots of shredded paper and stuff, but the things are all over the place. Almost threw away an oil feed tube when i was throwing away the shredded paper.

 

On tires, I believe in getting a fresh set. I don't know why. Maybe because I simply don't like to chew on other people's used chewing gum. Got no flavour left. hahahaha

 

Ive eaten other people's used chewing gum and i must say, it isnt too bad. But considering i was half drunk and the chewing gum exchange was a result of "mouth to mouth resuscitation" in a club, i guess its a different thing. hahaha

[lacrimosae]

Ive eaten other people's used chewing gum and i must say, it isnt too bad. But considering i was half drunk and the chewing gum exchange was a result of "mouth to mouth resuscitation" in a club, i guess its a different thing. hahaha

 

Was it coupled with CPR? 30 chest compressions?

 

Gotta grab the chest area with both hands, one on the left chest, one on the right chest, and squeez, I mean compress...

[Sub Zero]

comparing a brand new to a 7/8 used tyre. how does the brand new one lower your mortality rate? i think it just means that he will have to change the 7/8 earlier and if he gets it at a really good price cause the rider used it once and didnt like the feel of it, why not?

 

Hi, what tool do you use to measure the condition of the tyre to give a specific wear rate of 1/8? A ruler, vernier calipers? I believe Ateno used 'saving your life' as an expression, but it does make sense too. You never know. I believe talking about morality rate etc. is not neccessary. It's digressing from the topic at hand.

 

 

I just spoke in general, not specifically about the usage. I stand by my view that brand new tyres can potentially save your life better than used tyres when sh!t hit the fan, simply because you have complete control over what is included in the brand new tyres, which is not necessarily the case for used tyres. I think this is especially true on track. OK, maybe not the mortality, but anything which can put you in MC for a period of time.

 

Also, since you asked that question, can I ask you how the below go together:

- 7/8 used tyre

- Really good price

 

Pardon me for my short experience with Singapore, but to the best of my nascent understanding, prices in Singapore are not cheap. I wouldn't hope for really good price for a set of tyres that were just 7/8 used.

 

For the extra cash which I would spend for the 1/8 which is not there in the used tyres, I have the piece of mind that what I'm buying is brand new. It may be the mentality, but practically, it *may* make a difference. By buying brand new, I can at least control the factors (manufacturing year, batch etc.) and know for sure that the quality is going to be good. By buying 2nd hand, I still have control over the factors, but since it's used, I don't know for sure how different the quality is going to be. I just think simply like that.

 

As I mentioned, it's a mere recommendation. Anyone can recommend, but it is the rider who will decide. I can go on recommending how Aprilia sucks and the rider should sell his bike, and we all know the result of that, right?

 

Well said! I think like that too.

 

I think its naive to think that 2nd hand tyres are inferior. If thats the case then there wouldnt be a 2nd hand tyre business. But thats not the case, 2nd hand tyres is a big business. So then there must be lost of accidents due to inferior tyres, right? But thats not the case either. I for one, know lots of friends/family whose use 2nd hand tyres, for both cars and bikes. And so far no one has met an early death because of that.

 

Tyres that are considered "used" and "unsuitable" for track does not equate to them being inferior or "spoilt" and a cause for an "increase in mortality rate" In fact, with dual compound on tyres nowadays, some tyres will still have thousands of km of road life span even after use on track. There are many reasons why there are 2nd hand tyres. Some people change relatively new tyres on brand new bikes to different brands or types for their own specific purposes. Some people change tyres because they change their rims to a different size(more related to cars). Serious trackies change tyres often, as scrubbed down tyres cost them precious seconds in lap times. In fact, many times I've seen tyres which look really new with lost of threads left but are sold as 2nd hand. I quote Adam Shelton, a dude from TJ Tuning forums and is an Aprilia Superteens rider who sells his used competition control tyres online, as saying that a 30 lap tyre "will cost 1 second per lap", which is the reason why his tyres are changed often. But for those who have no need for that 1 second advantage, the tyres are far from being "spoilt" or inferior.

 

That being said, the onus should be on the buyer to check the used tyres carefully, and make sure theres no major defects like punctures or insufficient thread depth. To me 2nd hand tyres, provided they are in good condition, is not a problem and i will gladly use them for both road and track if i ever come across any good ones at decent prices.

 

Hi Ashraff, this topic is really getting out of hand. But for discussion sake, i'll go on with it.

 

Let's look at the question posed and the answer given. Chap looking for 2ndhand tyres for ROAD and TRACK use. Reply and further clarified reply from me is that it's alright for road use, NOT for track use.

 

You talk about 2ndhand tyre business. That's interesting. Let's talk in the context on motorcycles, since we're on 2 wheels, and more prone to any slippery situation on the roads/track. Now I ask again, which IDIOT would buy a new set of tyres for track, use only once or twice, then sell it off? I'm sure he'd be smart enough to use the tyre to its max, before selling it, or it has exceeded the number of heat cycles that are recommended.

 

People here talking about thread depth and whether the tyres are scrubbed till it gone. Take a look at Lawrence's tyres(Sorry to use you as an example mate!). It's relatively new looking. But it's atleast 2 years old? Or maybe more. I've seen it on his bike for ages, and before he went track, i told him to get them changed too. He's waiting for his Power Ones so he didnt push it at track. The tyres have probably harden, so it's less wear and tear, so the rubber doesnt show, but it means the rubber no long works the way it's supposed to. FACT: Tyres wear to give you grip.

 

Even if the tyres are not scrubbed till the end, they might have exceeded the number of heat cycles. Google if you dont know. No one knows except the rider. And definitely not the guy buying them. Because there's no way to tell. Maybe some special machine is made to, and is available to MotoGP pit crew. But from what I know, I've yet to see such a thing. So when tyres have exceeded their number of heat cycles, the rubber is NO longer working as well and how it's supposed to. It might take longer to wear off, and thus you give up optimum grip.

 

In summary, like what I said, it's better to spend for brand new tyres for that peace of mind. Again, i'll say it for the slow minded. Getting scrubbed track tyres for road use, is pretty ok. Yes, the rubber is not at optimum condition anymore but it still does it job of keeping you upright, and relatively safe. there's still a degree of risk involved but hey, not my problem. However, using scrubbed track tyres for further track use should be a big NO NO. You're just asking for trouble. Ask any INTELLIGENT track rider, would he recommend using worn out track tyres to be reused for track?

 

Anyway, this is my opinion on this topic. Like what Ashraff said, it's the onus of the rider to decide. Not my money, so I'm not bothered. My concern for a fellow rider would expect me to give the best recommendation which is to get a new set of tyres. The ONLY time I considered using 2ndhand tyres was when my current tyres were wearing out, and the tyres i wanted were not in stock. I wouldnt mind using for a month or two while waiting for my new tyres to arrive. My personal opinion, I would always go for the new tyres, and instead of wanting to be cheap and try to save on something that keeps me from kissing the road.

 

Oh yeah, Ashraff, regardless of degree of wear and tear, ANY 2ndhand tyre IS inferior(not as good) compared to a brand new tyre. That's an undisputed fact.

New tyre = 100%

2ndhand tyre = 10% - 90%

 

Can you deny that? So please, it's not naive to think so.

 

Lastly, some FOOLS got worked up by my recommendations. WHY? Because they SELL 2ndhand tyres to budget riders who are students or in NS. No wonder they know so many of these kind of riders. All the more, they can prey upon them and get rid of their tyres easily. I pity these chaps. I'm budget conscious too. But not to the extent it endangers my safety on the roads or track.

 

PS. Just changed to Brand new BT003 RS today. $300 at 37 Motoring. Still wearing out the wax. Good stuff. Fresh tyres feel Shiok especially when you waited for so long for them!!!

[personified]

Holy sh*tballs. I'll be in faster than you can say 'Raj you can't handle that bike' Subscribed!

 

 

 

Sounds great. I'll talk to you about this when we meet next. Maybe at least one more PG session if not two will be in order to get my form better. As usual, I can mostly do random weekdays (Tue, Thurs) and the 10.30am session like last time.

 

so now u have yr answers , im surprised actually at the cost and yes, ill assure them u be good for the 2010 best supersports bike... and before u return to NZ... u gotta at least for once burn some rubber in SIC with yer "Prillia (and the Kwacker too) oh ya what about being on a Supermoto bike ? in SIC go kart track?

I have allocated track dates for 2012 n this is 1 hellva adventure im taking on..

u manage to contact the chap for yer PG trip? oh well enjoy yourself ...and bring a buddy along!!! or ill stop the chap from taking yer bike up... :P

sigh just wish my 125 was up n running ,i just cant wait to give it a go and see if i can really ride on that specs...

[Ateno]

Also, since the ARC forum is up, I will only answer technical queries there from now on.

 

The last time it was shut down was partially due to a lack of interest in technical knowledge. So if you people think its a good resource for knowledge and want to keep it up and running, show your support and readership by posting there. Otherwise, it may just be shut down for good. And then we'll really lose something in our community that even money cannot buy.

 

Bro forum looks great - enjoy reading the posts so far still waiting for my account to be approved by the admin there though so I can post something

[frostscythe]

I just spoke in general, not specifically about the usage. I stand by my view that brand new tyres can potentially save your life better than used tyres when sh!t hit the fan, simply because you have complete control over what is included in the brand new tyres, which is not necessarily the case for used tyres. I think this is especially true on track. OK, maybe not the mortality, but anything which can put you in MC for a period of time.

 

Also, since you asked that question, can I ask you how the below go together:

- 7/8 used tyre

- Really good price

 

Pardon me for my short experience with Singapore, but to the best of my nascent understanding, prices in Singapore are not cheap. I wouldn't hope for really good price for a set of tyres that were just 7/8 used.

 

 

The question of 7/8 used tyre and good price would mean getting a good deal if youre willing to find it. I do not have the often luxury of buying everything new and have gotten great deals, 34carb for 80sgd, 25sgd for new px cone,brake caliper for 40sgd etc.

 

man. year and batch can be seen when choosing the tyre or asking before buying. the very reason why people buy brand new is the piece of mind, that does not mean one cannot find good deals on specific items. In the end what youre saying is buying that brand new tyre for the piece of mind, and i totally agree to that. But not that just because its used means your safety etc is at risk if you can purchase a used tyre, that is still in a very good condition and change it when it starts to wear. Which is what happens when you buy a brand new one.

[slicer]

 

PS. Just changed to Brand new BT003 RS today. $300 at 37 Motoring. Still wearing out the wax. Good stuff. Fresh tyres feel Shiok especially when you waited for so long for them!!!

 

didnt know 37 has tires. Didnt see any stack of tires the few time i was there. What brands do they carry?

[Ajik]

Oic... You mean forge a homologation certificate? And also bribe the inspectors at the inspection centre? No certificate = fail.

 

'Cause you can't get the certificate from anyone besides BikeTech... I'll give you more details if this was in the ARC forum.

 

Ok bro y nt u give me a call at 90920297. I really 1 2 know more. Coz im still new with tiz baby.

[Feelicks]

Ok bro y nt u give me a call at 90920297. I really 1 2 know more. Coz im still new with tiz baby.

 

if u really wanna learn more come 4 e DIY session happening tis sun afternoon... check above for details

[Ardian]

Damn..! Sad to say that my friend is now an 'idiot' for selling away his one time used/tracked tyres because he thinks that the tyres did'nt give him enough confidence(not performing as expected i think) on track.. Muahaha..! What an IDIOT..

[salibandy]

Ok bro y nt u give me a call at 90920297. I really 1 2 know more. Coz im still new with tiz baby.

 

Mate, if you want to know more, you should be the one calling him, not the other way round.

[lacrimosae]

Take a look at Lawrence's tyres(Sorry to use you as an example mate!). It's relatively new looking. But it's atleast 2 years old? Or maybe more. I've seen it on his bike for ages, and before he went track, i told him to get them changed too. He's waiting for his Power Ones so he didnt push it at track. The tyres have probably harden, so it's less wear and tear, so the rubber doesnt show, but it means the rubber no long works the way it's supposed to. FACT: Tyres wear to give you grip.

 

Even if the tyres are not scrubbed till the end, they might have exceeded the number of heat cycles. Google if you dont know. No one knows except the rider. And definitely not the guy buying them. Because there's no way to tell. Maybe some special machine is made to, and is available to MotoGP pit crew. But from what I know, I've yet to see such a thing. So when tyres have exceeded their number of heat cycles, the rubber is NO longer working as well and how it's supposed to. It might take longer to wear off, and thus you give up optimum grip.

 

In summary, like what I said, it's better to spend for brand new tyres for that peace of mind. Again, i'll say it for the slow minded. Getting scrubbed track tyres for road use, is pretty ok. Yes, the rubber is not at optimum condition anymore but it still does it job of keeping you upright, and relatively safe. there's still a degree of risk involved but hey, not my problem. However, using scrubbed track tyres for further track use should be a big NO NO. You're just asking for trouble. Ask any INTELLIGENT track rider, would he recommend using worn out track tyres to be reused for track?

 

Yes, they're over 3 years old because even though I specified to JR for the newest set of Metzelers, those fcukers gave me almost 2-year-old tires, and claimed they were still good due to "proper storage". Oh sure. I could rip up Pasir Gudang on cold Dunlop GPR-70s with minimal slip, yet on the old Sportec M3 from JR which I bought new, I was slipping all over the place after 6 laps of warm-up. The tires DID NOT WARM UP.

 

The rubber was hardened and smooth like plastic. I tried riding on lower pressure, and then on higher pressure, no difference.

 

Those old Metzeler Sportec M3 tires JR sold to me for the price of brand new tires were ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

 

Which is why I'm still practicing no-brake drills on PG instead of going full out.

 

Bro forum looks great - enjoy reading the posts so far still waiting for my account to be approved by the admin there though so I can post something

 

What's your nick you registered? I'm pretty sure the account has been activated.

 

Ok bro y nt u give me a call at 90920297. I really 1 2 know more. Coz im still new with tiz baby.

 

I don't own a phone any more mate. You might have better luck getting information from the ARC forum.

 

I am pretty sure this topic is covered there. Unless you're illiterate and can't read from there, I just might make time to explain everything to you in detail when my schedule frees up, quite possibly in 2035 at the earliest.

 

Mate, if you want to know more, you should be the one calling him, not the other way round.

 

I no longer own a phone that allows calls regarding technical schitt.

[mesab0ogie]

Vik, i know u already know this, but none of my comments are directed at u or anyone specific ;P

 

Anyway, i guess i do see your point. I will have to say that my area of interest is more to the engines rather than tyres so i'll willingly eat some humble pie and admit that you probably know more about tyres than I do. But i will stop short of agreeing that 2nd hand tyres are inferior. By the definition of the word ur right, bt inferior has a strong implication of negativity, which isnt usually the case. Take this into consideration. Would you consider a one lap old tyre inferior to a brand new one? In terms of lifespan, yes as its now 1 lap closer to being useless, but not necessarily with regards to performance. which is actually my point in saying that i dont think 2nd hand tyres are inferior.

 

ANYWAY like you said, this argument will lead to nowhere and its all up to the buyer to decide. So yeah. back to important stuff. MY BIKES GONA BE READY SOON. CAN FINALLY MEET UP AT JALAN KAYU! WOOOOO!

 

Btw im having a real big headache sorting the pjme stuff. Theres so many bearings and seals and i really cant tell the difference which is which. I'll have to sit down and do some googling before i get this sorted.

 

Was it coupled with CPR? 30 chest compressions?

 

Gotta grab the chest area with both hands, one on the left chest, one on the right chest, and squeez, I mean compress...

 

I guys u could say that. There was some "compressing" and pounding of sorts going on. HAHAHAHA

[8niner]

91733323 text me ur offer thks bike has to go 10'aprilia rs125 1k plus mileage

[Sub Zero]

didnt know 37 has tires. Didnt see any stack of tires the few time i was there. What brands do they carry?

 

Hi,

 

37 Motoring can get you any tyres that you want. You just have to inform Ah Seng there. BUt 1 thing, please do not approach any middleman lurking around there to get you stuff, including tyres. I've had a bad experience today, and all I can advise is approach Ah Seng direct fot whateva parts you need, including tyres. Also I can tell you tyres are cheaper if you buy from Ah Boy and fix at his workshop. His labour charge is also cheaper. But i like to give 37 abit of business as a loyal customer, so i dont mind paying abit more. Check out Ah Boy prices, then elsewhere. In the end, all the shops take from Ah Boy mostly.

 

 

Mate, if you want to know more, you should be the one calling him, not the other way round.

 

True that, I like your one liners Mark.

 

 

Yes, they're over 3 years old because even though I specified to JR for the newest set of Metzelers, those fcukers gave me almost 2-year-old tires, and claimed they were still good due to "proper storage". Oh sure. I could rip up Pasir Gudang on cold Dunlop GPR-70s with minimal slip, yet on the old Sportec M3 from JR which I bought new, I was slipping all over the place after 6 laps of warm-up. The tires DID NOT WARM UP.

 

The rubber was hardened and smooth like plastic. I tried riding on lower pressure, and then on higher pressure, no difference.

 

Those old Metzeler Sportec M3 tires JR sold to me for the price of brand new tires were ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

 

Which is why I'm still practicing no-brake drills on PG instead of going full out.

 

 

No offense mate. I waited ages for my BT003 because I specifically wanted tyres that as fresh as possible. In the end, I wasnt satisfied. My rear is 6 mths old, that's alright. But my front is a year plus old. Will tell you full story and about my lousy experience when I see you in person.

 

Vik, i know u already know this, but none of my comments are directed at u or anyone specific ;P

 

Anyway, i guess i do see your point. I will have to say that my area of interest is more to the engines rather than tyres so i'll willingly eat some humble pie and admit that you probably know more about tyres than I do. But i will stop short of agreeing that 2nd hand tyres are inferior. By the definition of the word ur right, bt inferior has a strong implication of negativity, which isnt usually the case. Take this into consideration. Would you consider a one lap old tyre inferior to a brand new one? In terms of lifespan, yes as its now 1 lap closer to being useless, but not necessarily with regards to performance. which is actually my point in saying that i dont think 2nd hand tyres are inferior.

 

ANYWAY like you said, this argument will lead to nowhere and its all up to the buyer to decide. So yeah. back to important stuff. MY BIKES GONA BE READY SOON. CAN FINALLY MEET UP AT JALAN KAYU! WOOOOO!

 

Btw im having a real big headache sorting the pjme stuff. Theres so many bearings and seals and i really cant tell the difference which is which. I'll have to sit down and do some googling before i get this sorted.

 

No worries mate. You and I are cool. I enjoy lively discussions. I'm looking forward to seeing you rebuild. Do let me know when you're doing it. I'm having exams real soon, but can pop by during my study break when I need a respite from the books!

[lacrimosae]

No offense mate. I waited ages for my BT003 because I specifically wanted tyres that as fresh as possible. In the end, I wasnt satisfied. My rear is 6 mths old, that's alright. But my front is a year plus old. Will tell you full story and about my lousy experience when I see you in person.

 

I can't see anything even slightly offensive anywhere in your post.

 

6 months still ok I guess. Mine were more than 18 months old. I was really pissed off.

[user1987]

hi guys. is the shop name call 37 motoring that is specialize in aprilia bikes?

[Feelicks]

hi guys. is the shop name call 37 motoring that is specialize in aprilia bikes?

 

r apples apples???

[priller07]

r apples apples???

 

There are no such things as apples. The Matrix only tells you there is.