600 to 1000cc?

[hydrop]

Hihi,

 

Is there a noticable difference in performance on sg roads if I upgrade from a 600cc bike to a 1000cc bike? Or is it a waste of money? Thanks!

[fattsum]

Originally posted by hydrop@Sep 30 2006, 08:15 PM

Hihi,

 

Is there a noticable difference in performance on sg roads if I upgrade from a 600cc bike to a 1000cc bike? Or is it a waste of money? Thanks!

what bike u like to upgrade to mate? i myself have litre bike in mind.. but havent decide yet...

[hydrop]

either one of the 2007 litre bikes from suzuki yamaha and honda....most prob mid next yr buying hee hee...look see look see first.

[rhema83]

Maybe you should wait another year, because the 2007 bikes are new designs and will have a few flaws to be ironed out. Especially when Suzuki came up with something sophisticated like the engine mapping selector.

 

I am definitely up for a K8.

[Hong-U]

Originally posted by hydrop@Sep 30 2006, 08:15 PM

Hihi,

 

Is there a noticable difference in performance on sg roads if I upgrade from a 600cc bike to a 1000cc bike? Or is it a waste of money? Thanks!

 

I assume yr riding a class2 bike now and you were asking in terms of performance on sg roads...

 

A 600cc sportsbike can easily break the speed limit here on most roads and what do you think of a 1000cc beast?

 

Leng Leng Leng....

 

 

[xb84]

i have been wondering whether to upgrade to 600cc/1000cc too.

talk has been 600cc are high rev bikes and we wont be able to feel much diff from 400cc while riding in sg cos we are not able to high rev it.

yet we can feel the power (torque?) on 1000cc.

 

what's going on? how true is it? can someone explain?

[rhema83]

Originally posted by onefour02@Oct 2 2006, 08:01 AM

i have been wondering whether to upgrade to 600cc/1000cc too.

talk has been 600cc are high rev bikes and we wont be able to feel much diff from 400cc while riding in sg cos we are not able to high rev it.

yet we can feel the power (torque?) on 1000cc.

 

what's going on? how true is it? can someone explain?

True. You need to rev the engine high >10000rpm in order to feel the power. If you do that on SG roads, people will think you are trying to be funny and TP will look at you also. I've riddien a ZX6R. It feels no different from my CBR400RR on normal road speeds.

 

Literbikes have much more torque than a 600cc by virtue of its larger displacement. You can accelerate in any gear any rpm without feeling sluggish.

[MrLau]

Originally posted by onefour02@Oct 2 2006, 08:01 AM

talk has been 600cc are high rev bikes and we wont be able to feel much diff from 400cc while riding in sg cos we are not able to high rev it.

yet we can feel the power (torque?) on 1000cc.

Ther is a say....

 

"No replacement for displacement".

[hachi]

Nothing can replace cubic Centimeters

[GerardSantaCruz]

Originally posted by rhema83@Oct 2 2006, 09:30 AM

I've riddien a ZX6R. It feels no different from my CBR400RR on normal road speeds.

 

pls define this.

 

let me quote.. "normal road speed", am i suppose to feel a diff on a litre, 600 and 400 at 90km/hr?

 

let's go for a ride.

[Hong-U]

I disagree that 400cc and 600c has got little difference....

 

I rode rvf before and currently k5 600cc, there is a difference loh.

 

Just get the bike that u like and within your budget.

[rhema83]

I need to clarify before the 600 fanatics start bombing me. I am comparing a ZX6R of comparable age to my CBR400RR. Both are FN plate. If you compare a 10-year-old CBR400RR to a brand new ZX636 (or a 10-year-old-design RVF to a new GSXR600), of course there must be a big difference! How fair a comparison is THAT?

 

Normal road speeds refer to about 60km/h. It wasn't my bike so I couldn't take it up to the expressway. I would have loved to test it on the track.

 

At cruising speed, say 90km/h, in top gear, there should be little difference between 400cc and 600cc because the peak power is made so much higher in the RPM range. However, a literbike will leave the 2 in the dust because of higher torque and power at lower range.

[ah_tee]

Originally posted by rhema83@Oct 3 2006, 08:59 AM

I need to clarify before the 600 fanatics start bombing me. I am comparing a ZX6R of comparable age to my CBR400RR. Both are FN plate. If you compare a 10-year-old CBR400RR to a brand new ZX636 (or a 10-year-old-design RVF to a new GSXR600), of course there must be a big difference! How fair a comparison is THAT?

 

Normal road speeds refer to about 60km/h. It wasn't my bike so I couldn't take it up to the expressway. I would have loved to test it on the track.

 

At cruising speed, say 90km/h, in top gear, there should be little difference between 400cc and 600cc because the peak power is made so much higher in the RPM range. However, a literbike will leave the 2 in the dust because of higher torque and power at lower range.

maybe ur right regarding the age of both machines a decade ago

 

 

but 600s nowadays are usually pumping more than 100bhp

 

comparing to our current generation super 4s , i think there is a great difference

 

 

maybe u will say our s4s are streetbikes

 

but i cant think of any new 400s close enuff to make any comparison, the technology in VTEC also wont be any inferior than any 400cc sports bikes

[ulysses_sc]

Originally posted by onefour02@Oct 2 2006, 08:01 AM

i have been wondering whether to upgrade to 600cc/1000cc too.

talk has been 600cc are high rev bikes and we wont be able to feel much diff from 400cc while riding in sg cos we are not able to high rev it.

yet we can feel the power (torque?) on 1000cc.

 

what's going on? how true is it? can someone explain?

If your intended usage is purely for travelling on SG roads, then why waste a perfectly good 600cc track biased bike?

 

Peak horsepower and torque is one thing, but it's where in the rev range that the engine produces these numbers matter for road or track.

 

The latest generation of 600cc race replicas all rev to astronomical redlines, and the R6 tops out at 16,000rpm. This is obviously an engine tuned for track days, and it will feel rather gutless on the roads where the engine speeds are much lower. Compared to a bike tuned for torque (e.g. Hornet 600), the Hornet will feel much more livelier at road legal speeds.

 

There is only so much power a normally aspirated 600cc engine makes. The peak figures can be pushed up or down the rev range, but it's not possible to to have a broad and high spread of power. Open class monsters like the Hayabusa, Blackbird, ZX12 don't count.

 

Understand your needs, and match it to a suitable bike. Basically, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by GerardSantaCruz@Oct 2 2006, 02:22 PM

let me quote.. "normal road speed", am i suppose to feel a diff on a litre, 600 and 400 at 90km/hr?

on a 400cc at 90kmh, u probably at least 4th, mebbe 5th gear. if say u need sudden acceleration at this point, you can turn the throttle wide open and the acceleration likely not powerful.

 

on a 600cc, at 90 kmh you can be either at 2nd gear or 5th gear (its too low for 6th). if u are at 2nd gear, u twist the throttle hard and the bike will shoot forward and accelerate some more like a rocket. if u are at 5th gear, u twist the throttle hard and u feel like the bike just waking up from sleep, slow acceleration..... until your tacho needle sweeps past 9k rpm when suddenly the bike starts sprinting. take note though, u would have broken speed limit long long ago on 5th gear beore the 'kick' comes in.

 

on a 1000cc, dun matter what gear what speed, u twist the throttle open and the bike will shoot forward no matter what. heck it'd probably wheelie if u twist hard enough.

 

theres your difference between 400, 600 and 1000.

[GerardSantaCruz]

Originally posted by mechwira@Oct 3 2006, 11:05 AM

on a 400cc at 90kmh, u probably at least 4th, mebbe 5th gear. if say u need sudden acceleration at this point, you can turn the throttle wide open and the acceleration likely not powerful.

 

on a 600cc, at 90 kmh you can be either at 2nd gear or 5th gear (its too low for 6th). if u are at 2nd gear, u twist the throttle hard and the bike will shoot forward and accelerate some more like a rocket. if u are at 5th gear, u twist the throttle hard and u feel like the bike just waking up from sleep, slow acceleration..... until your tacho needle sweeps past 9k rpm when suddenly the bike starts sprinting. take note though, u would have broken speed limit long long ago on 5th gear beore the 'kick' comes in.

 

on a 1000cc, dun matter what gear what speed, u twist the throttle open and the bike will shoot forward no matter what. heck it'd probably wheelie if u twist hard enough.

 

theres your difference between 400, 600 and 1000.

simple. i travel at 90 on 6th. and when i need that sudden acceleration, i could jolly well throttle and get it. nothing compared to downing gear and hammering but at 6th, i can get what i need. it doesnt wake up from sleep and it doesnt accelerate slow, as a matter of fact, if u hammer it real hard, you feel the throw and jerk.

 

what you have mentioned were old skool, same as rhema.

 

this is new skool.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by GerardSantaCruz@Oct 3 2006, 11:54 AM

simple. i travel at 90 on 6th. and when i need that sudden acceleration, i could jolly well throttle and get it. nothing compared to downing gear and hammering but at 6th, i can get what i need. it doesnt wake up from sleep and it doesnt accelerate slow, as a matter of fact, if u hammer it real hard, you feel the throw and jerk.

 

what you have mentioned were old skool, same as rhema.

 

this is new skool.

if you're on a modern zx-636r, the additional 36c and kawa's tuning probably adds a bit of a punch, like a 750 but not quite a 1000. interesting to see if the latest kawa which is 599cc can still provide such a punch.

 

the rest of the 'true' 600, which are actually 599cc, is like i've described, particularly the honda and yamaha. if 'old school' means an '05 spec bike then yeah i'm old school.

[GerardSantaCruz]

Originally posted by mechwira@Oct 3 2006, 11:58 AM

if you're on a modern zx-636r, the additional 36c and kawa's tuning probably adds a bit of a punch, like a 750 but not quite a 1000. interesting to see if the latest kawa which is 599cc can still provide such a punch.

 

the rest of the 'true' 600, which are actually 599cc, is like i've described, particularly the honda and yamaha. if 'old school' means an '05 spec bike then yeah i'm old school.

36cc isn't much of a great deal based on numbers but i have to say, yes, it does add a punch. i would still stick my dough with kawasaki on their 599, like what everyone said.. kawa is raw power!

 

taking a true '600', we have the zx6rr, i do not have a chance to try this out so i cannot give my opinion on this. as much as i wanna flame suzuki and honda, i shall keep my vile tongue behind my teeth. perhaps i was wrong to use old and new skool. branding would be the perfect word but it would definitely turn ugly.

 

thread starter has the intention of 600 vs 1000. not 400 vs '600'.

[VoLcAnO]

600 on sg roads is powerful enough! Of coz 1000cc bikes gives u more punch and 'kick' during pickup but u still gotta wait for the others at the next traffic light..

 

I suggest u stick to ur 600

[hit.man]

Why don't you buy a 750... just nice? hehe...

[Hong-U]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Oct 3 2006, 09:54 AM

maybe ur right regarding the age of both machines a decade ago

 

 

but 600s nowadays are usually pumping more than 100bhp

 

comparing to our current generation super 4s , i think there is a great difference

 

 

maybe u will say our s4s are streetbikes

 

but i cant think of any new 400s close enuff to make any comparison, the technology in VTEC also wont be any inferior than any 400cc sports bikes

Pardon my mistake in comparing a FS plate RVF to a k5 600....

 

I applaud what you had said, ah_tee.

[rhema83]

Originally posted by GerardSantaCruz@Oct 3 2006, 12:22 PM

36cc isn't much of a great deal based on numbers but i have to say, yes, it does add a punch. i would still stick my dough with kawasaki on their 599, like what everyone said.. kawa is raw power!

 

taking a true '600', we have the zx6rr, i do not have a chance to try this out so i cannot give my opinion on this. as much as i wanna flame suzuki and honda, i shall keep my vile tongue behind my teeth. perhaps i was wrong to use old and new skool. branding would be the perfect word but it would definitely turn ugly.

 

thread starter has the intention of 600 vs 1000. not 400 vs '600'.

Actually, the 636 has a much wider powerband than the rest of the true 600s, including the ZX6RR. That 36cc extra displacement helped tremendously. You'll be surprised by how much smoother the power and torque curves are.

 

I wonder what kind of bike the new 599cc ZX6R is going to be like. Kawasaki claims that it is going to sacrifice rider friendliness for outride performance. Would they be referring to tuning the bike for montrous top end power but wimpy low end?

 

By the way, branding is not the issue. If Kawasaki parts weren't so expensive in Singapore, I will definitely go with team green. But money is definitely a consideration, so I decided to go with another brand. The reason I am riding a CBR now is purely by chance. I needed an affordable 400cc machine for me to ride for 4 months a year when I am back, and it happened that my housemate's brother is selling his CBR.

[rhema83]

Originally posted by ah_tee@Oct 3 2006, 09:54 AM

maybe ur right regarding the age of both machines a decade ago

 

 

but 600s nowadays are usually pumping more than 100bhp

 

comparing to our current generation super 4s , i think there is a great difference

 

 

maybe u will say our s4s are streetbikes

 

but i cant think of any new 400s close enuff to make any comparison, the technology in VTEC also wont be any inferior than any 400cc sports bikes

A 06 R6 owner will probably kick himself if he sees the dyno charts of a Super 4 Spec 3 and his 06 R6's dyno charts side by side - if he doesn't go to track to utilize the power above 10000rpm. He is paying a whole lot more for that little bit more (or little bit less at the dead spots!) power down at low end.

[MrLau]

Generally the biggest displacement, the wider the power band, so less of need to change gear.

 

The bigger displacement also make the engine run at lower rev, more comfortable to ride and lesser wear and tear (in engine).

 

So get the biggest you can afford, beside the roadtax, the rest of maintenance is about the same.

 

But bigger cc also mean heavier, hotter, more roadtax, more petrol....

[ah_tee]

Originally posted by MrLau@Oct 4 2006, 08:26 AM

Generally the biggest displacement, the wider the power band, so less of need to change gear.

 

The bigger displacement also make the engine run at lower rev, more comfortable to ride and lesser wear and tear (in engine).

 

So get the biggest you can afford, beside the roadtax, the rest of maintenance is about the same.

 

But bigger cc also mean heavier, hotter, more roadtax, more petrol....

other than the cost issues

 

i think we need to factor in the use on sg road

 

 

dosent mean u go for the biggest displacement u can afford

 

 

i find my previous R1 abit boring to ride in sg roads, because b4 i could even go thru 30percent of my tacho, i m already above the speed limit

but of cos i enjoy the punch wif a slight twist of the throttle

 

but if u choose to ride a big bike in sg, chances are that u will only see ur tacho moving slightly in ur instrument cluster, u will soon feel like u r riding a half asleep bike

 

they are not design to go at 90-100

 

 

unless ur a regular on NSH