S'pore Driving Centre

[MT23]

Dunno pple have mention b4 but i would like to start this topic again. I'm very very objecting driving centre allowing learners to learn driving using AUTOMATIC cars. This will not only make their skills on the road to b degrading, but also imposing dangers to other road users.

 

Example: U were riding/driving behind a auto-car. And this particular driver happened to b one hand holding the wheels, while the other hand is sms-ing on the phone. WHAT will be the CONSEQUENCES?? If anything happen, he can blame u directly for hitting his "back-axx" although its not entirely yr fault. What can be worse if tat driver can do 3 things at the same time: L-hand holding the wheels, R-hand sms-ing, and the bloody mouth is holding a cigarette.

 

I do hope the road/law authorities can do something abt it. For those user who read this and felt u filled this driver-cat, PLZ PLZ PLZ be a gd n disciplined driver.

[standlee]

Originally posted by MT23@Jan 23 2005, 07:32 PM

Dunno pple have mention b4 but i would like to start this topic again. I'm very very objecting driving centre allowing learners to learn driving using AUTOMATIC cars. This will not only make their skills on the road to b degrading, but also imposing dangers to other road users.

 

Example: U were riding/driving behind a auto-car. And this particular driver happened to b one hand holding the wheels, while the other hand is sms-ing on the phone. WHAT will be the CONSEQUENCES?? If anything happen, he can blame u directly for hitting his "back-axx" although its not entirely yr fault. What can be worse if tat driver can do 3 things at the same time: L-hand holding the wheels, R-hand sms-ing, and the bloody mouth is holding a cigarette.

 

I do hope the road/law authorities can do something abt it. For those user who read this and felt u filled this driver-cat, PLZ PLZ PLZ be a gd n disciplined driver.

cruising manual drivers have their hands off the gears as well. so wat diff does it make?? auto cars is a overwhelming phenomen here & we can't really phase out auto cars based on wat u have said rite?? on the other hand, even if there wasn't a 3A license, people will still continue to take class 3 & drive auto cars rite?? i really can't picture wat u r trying to say.

[rhema83]

What I am concerned about is 3A drivers "trying out" manual cars and become road hazards. Driving an automatic car is not more dangerous than driving a manual car. I rather have a newbie drive an auto car that won't stall than letting him cause a jam when he stalls and panicks.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by rhema83@Mar 6 2005, 01:13 AM

Driving an automatic car is not more dangerous than driving a manual car. I rather have a newbie drive an auto car that won't stall than letting him cause a jam when he stalls and panicks.

I feel otherwise.

 

I think that driving autocars is more danagerous to other road users than driving manual cars.

 

My reasons (in fact I posted this before in one of the threads) are:-

 

1) Imagine a newbie (P-plate) drives an autocar and mistakenly steps the accelerator pedal for a brake pedal, he can kill someone easily, b cos the car will just race forward!

 

2) Also imagine he mistakenly steps the brakes pedal for the accelerator pedal, he might also accidentally KILL SOMEONE BEHIND (IMAGINE A MOTORBIKE BEHIND REACTING TO HIS SUDDEN BRAKES).

 

The above 2 scenarios are harmless to other road users if it were a manual car:-

 

1) the car will not move (if clutch is stepped), OR the enigne will cease (if cltuch pedal is released abruptly).

 

2) the car will judder (very uncomfortable), then engine will cease, this will likely to wake him up before he step his brkes further, thus the danger is minimised.

 

But I'm not against 3A licence, only need to let all 3A learners know that although they can drive the car with fewer lessons, they must always remeber that their mistakes are more deadly, instructors of 3A need to remind the 3A learners this message constantly!

 

Your views, please.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by rhema83@Mar 6 2005, 01:13 AM

What I am concerned about is 3A drivers "trying out" manual cars and become road hazards.

If he drives a manual car with a 3A licence, he will be charged with driving a motor vehicle without the proper licence, just like driving a car with a 2B licence!

[retro1983]

auto cars is a dangerous weapon when not handled properly.

 

cos step on the accelerator the car will dash, compared to manual cars, how fierce can gear 1 go??( dun mention sports car)

[rhema83]

Originally posted by retro1983@Mar 7 2005, 06:51 AM

auto cars is a dangerous weapon when not handled properly.

 

cos step on the accelerator the car will dash, compared to manual cars, how fierce can gear 1 go??( dun mention sports car)

Notice that most manual vehicles are either commercial vehicles(vans, cabs) or sport cars. Both categories are "dangerous".

 

Back to the topic, class 3A course should have ALL the driving technique lessons that the original class 3 course has. They only should take out those involving clutch control and gearshift. So I don't think the 3A newbie will be gettng any less driving technique and safety education than those taking the full class 3.

 

In Singapore, auto cars are really more practical because if you get trapped in a jam in a manual car, you are going to have leg cramps!

[rhema83]

Originally posted by Keynes@Mar 6 2005, 10:59 PM

I feel otherwise.

 

I think that driving autocars is more danagerous to other road users than driving manual cars.

 

My reasons (in fact I posted this before in one of the threads) are:-

 

1) Imagine a newbie (P-plate) drives an autocar and mistakenly steps the accelerator pedal for a brake pedal, he can kill someone easily, b cos the car will just race forward!

 

2) Also imagine he mistakenly steps the brakes pedal for the accelerator pedal, he might also accidentally KILL SOMEONE BEHIND (IMAGINE A MOTORBIKE BEHIND REACTING TO HIS SUDDEN BRAKES).

 

The above 2 scenarios are harmless to other road users if it were a manual car:-

 

1) the car will not move (if clutch is stepped), OR the enigne will cease (if cltuch pedal is released abruptly).

 

2) the car will judder (very uncomfortable), then engine will cease, this will likely to wake him up before he step his brkes further, thus the danger is minimised.

 

But I'm not against 3A licence, only need to let all 3A learners know that although they can drive the car with fewer lessons, they must always remeber that their mistakes are more deadly, instructors of 3A need to remind the 3A learners this message constantly!

 

Your views, please.

Just my 2 cents, no offence.

 

1) If he cannot differentiate the accelerator and the brake, he shouldn't even be allowed on the road in the first place! Also, even if it's a manual car, stepping the accelerator will still accelerate the car. I do agree though, that the auto car will accelerate faster unless he is in a manual sports car.

 

2) If he is moving off from a stop, stepping on the brakes instead will result in nothing except impatient road users behind sounding their horns. If he is trying to accelerate and steps on the brake, the car will slow down no matter if it is auto or manual because braking power is independent of transmission, and we are taking engine braking out of the equation because auto cars have very little engine braking and not downshifting on a manual car has the same effect. We're also not supposed to tailgate (especially a p-plater!), right?

[Keynes]

Originally posted by rhema83@Mar 9 2005, 03:51 AM

Just my 2 cents, no offence.

 

1) If he cannot differentiate the accelerator and the brake, he shouldn't even be allowed on the road in the first place! Also, even if it's a manual car, stepping the accelerator will still accelerate the car. I do agree though, that the auto car will accelerate faster unless he is in a manual sports car.

 

2) If he is moving off from a stop, stepping on the brakes instead will result in nothing except impatient road users behind sounding their horns. If he is trying to accelerate and steps on the brake, the car will slow down no matter if it is auto or manual because braking power is independent of transmission, and we are taking engine braking out of the equation because auto cars have very little engine braking and not downshifting on a manual car has the same effect. We're also not supposed to tailgate (especially a p-plater!), right?

Hi don't worry, this is a forum, we r here to discuss and express views.

 

I agree with all you said abt convienence of auto cars and the required skills and safety awareness car learners shd have, be it class 3A or 3.

 

But just for argument sake, and off topic a little. Have you noticed aht certian machines in facory and equipment in or daily use requiring certain simultaneous actions from both hands, or require one action following another, just for the SAKE of SAFETY. Because it is VERY UNLIKELY tt, we can accidently press ONE thing with both hands, or press one button followed IMMEDAITLEY by another button, we intentionally want it to be.

 

Now look at the case of manual cars. To accelerate the car, there a few steps need to be done simulanteously and sequentially, like press accelerator, release clutch to biting point, further press accelerator, further release clutch, and then release it fully, and repeat for 2nd gear, so the CHANCES of accidentally doing these few steps is VERY low.

 

But for auto cars, it involves only one step, step acceleartor! Chances of accidentally doing this ONE SINGLE step is high, especially when reversing.

 

Now, lets talk about realo cases, there are 2 cases of accident I remember in S'pore (it could be more) which involved stepping the wrong pedal and both are autocars (off course, if manual cars, it wld not be in the news, b cos no accidents).

 

The first one is one woman (not sure whether P-plate) who rammed into a convienent store and damage the store (no one was hurt though). the second happened in a multi-storey carpark, also woman, reversed above the curb and hit the walls, no one was hurt but car damaged.

 

Of cousre to a greater extent the accident were due to the incompetancy of the drivers, not so much of the cars, but the fact that there wouldn't be any accident if they were manual cars shows that dirvers of autocars need to be more careful.

 

Just to share my personal experience. I was once reversing an autocar and also accidentally stepped the accelerate for brakes, luckily I didn't hit anything, but scred man. Some cars have the accelerator and the brake pedals very close to each other (like sport cars).

[MT23]

standlee>>>>>ask u 1 question? R u riding or driving???? My topic is very clear cut n u say u can't picture it out. R u saying u got problem reading english?

 

Wat Rhema mentioned also proved a pt. When P-holder panick, they can mistaken the acc pedal as brake pedal, and "Pham".....

 

I stil vividly recalled 2yr back there is a auntie confessed tat she "kan chiong" when trying to avoid hitting a cat running across her path n she stepped onto the acc instead of brake. Eventually her car swerved n hit a semi-detached hse. And the place happened at BUKIT TIMAH.....

 

My main concern is those who drive regardless AUTO o MANUAL, pls consider other road user safety.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by MT23@Mar 25 2005, 05:51 PM

standlee>>>>>ask u 1 question? R u riding or driving???? My topic is very clear cut n u say u can't picture it out. R u saying u got problem reading english?

actually i think he has a point.

 

your first post raised 2 issues. the first was something like giving licenses to drivers trained solely with auto cars result in drivers with less skill on the roads. fair point in my opinion.

 

the second issue was your example: a driver in an auto car with only one hand on the wheel, and the other using his phone.

 

contrary to wat u may think, they're different issues. the first issue is about imparting adequate skill to drivers. the second issue (your example given) is about driver responsibility on the roads.

 

even if the authorities never implemented the 3A licence, there will still be people trained in manual cars, licensed to drive manual cars, yet drive auto cars and possibly behave irresponsibly in the manner you suggest. wat does the license have got to do with it? heck, even drivers in manual cars do this occasionally. so how would removing class3A lic solve anything?

 

is my english good enuff?

 

My main concern is those who drive regardless AUTO o MANUAL, pls consider other road user safety.

 

yah. responsibility is not about wat license you hold, right?

 

class3A issue is about whether such training is adequate or not.

[Jorn]

Actually, I am very against the whole idea of learning auto cars at driving centres to get a class 3A. like what rhema83 said in the first part of his post,

What I am concerned about is 3A drivers "trying out" manual cars and become road hazards.

. The feel of an auto car and a manual car is very different. Not just the transmission only. If you look at it this way, an auto car is basically just a bigger and more powerful go cart. Just step and go. People will take for granted that the car won't stall, and very easily become overconfident.

On the other hand, a class 3 liscence is much more difficult to acquire. Many people learn from retaking their TP. they know how to handle situations where they are using only one hand on the steering wheel.

And because class 3a is easier to get, I personally feel that there are alot more road hazards on the road now. You dun have feel the same way as me, but that's what I feel towards class 3a drivers. in short, they kinda took the short cut route.

[Touch n Go]

Originally posted by Jorn@Sep 6 2005, 06:08 PM

Actually, I am very against the whole idea of learning auto cars at driving centres to get a class 3A. like what rhema83 said in the first part of his post, . The feel of an auto car and a manual car is very different. Not just the transmission only. If you look at it this way, an auto car is basically just a bigger and more powerful go cart. Just step and go. People will take for granted that the car won't stall, and very easily become overconfident.

On the other hand, a class 3 liscence is much more difficult to acquire. Many people learn from retaking their TP. they know how to handle situations where they are using only one hand on the steering wheel.

And because class 3a is easier to get, I personally feel that there are alot more road hazards on the road now. You dun have feel the same way as me, but that's what I feel towards class 3a drivers. in short, they kinda took the short cut route.

agree! .. driving auto cars too much will become complacent and lazy, enter turn juz brake n accelerate, manual cars are in more control as u use engine brake to slow the car donw and u will feel the slowing down more than auto car. i had the experience of step worng pedal, i was driving my dad;s car when i juz pass, queing behind some cars, never realise and i tot i was stepping the brake, the car suddenly surge 4ward, thank god it was quite a distance away from the car infront.. u dun reali have this problem in manual cars... well a better solution is to teach the auto car drivers to use left foot braking, like F1.. so both legs will be working and chances of wrong stepping can be minimise...

[Precious]

still think that one should learn from manual first ... before going to auto ...

but anyway the centre already introduce the auto version ... for those lazy people and those who find manual difficult ...

i see alot taking 3A

[Touch n Go]

Originally posted by Precious@Sep 13 2005, 12:04 PM

still think that one should learn from manual first ... before going to auto ...

but anyway the centre already introduce the auto version ... for those lazy people and those who find manual difficult ...

i see alot taking 3A

well, pros and cons la.. its ok if they keep driving auto cars but if they wanna drive van or pick up then they will regret man!

[sheep]

My instructor at SSDC told me once that if its uncles or aunties who learn auto then not so bad.. cos easier, for youngsters, its plain stupidity...

which i agreed of cos..

Class 3A, only auto cars,

class 3, u get to choose auto and manual..

Why pay so much more money to be restricted to the choice of cars available to u?

[comics00]

auto car... wat's that??? IMO to truly enjoy a car then manual gear is the only choice. the only time i buy auto car is only for my wife & she got her cl3 with manual car

[krazyfist]

strongly i suggest manual should be taken by all newbies..after that, den u can upgrade and take class 3a which is automatic...since the dangerous has been said about automatic cars, u need experience in handling auto cars....

[xiaoxiao]

may i ask, those accidents which involve auto cars, when did they happen?

and the drivers of these auto cars, wad licence did they hold exactly? class 3? or 3A?

 

i believe 3A has the same learning procedures as 3. if one said that learning 3A has lesser skills, then why would the gahment implement it and allow more accidents to happen?

 

i do see quite alot those drivers(be it uncles or aunties or youngsters), driving manual car, using handphones/cigarettes in hand, driving away happily. i don deny i dont see it in auto cars. but it all goes down to the drivers. wad class are they holding? i believe not only class3A right?

 

its all comes back to driver's own responsibility.

[minorsage]

my friend kena from auto car before.

 

this car stopped at barrier to enter carpark, insert cashcard.

removed cashcard, barricade come up.

car suddenly reserved into her.

 

haha driver came down and apologise for putting the gear in R.

[jkaiser]

some ppl just cannot coordinate gear shifting n clutch..hence the auto option for them..

 

i taking manual lesson @ bbdc now, they have 2 compulsory auto lessons.. and i learnt a few things, most impt being to move @ low speed in auto car, u only need to let go of brake..so chances of a newbie slamming now accel is low

 

and the auto instructors are definitely very very strict on safety checks, cos thats the only thing testers can catch mah, since no gear change

[gorgonitz82]

actually i am more concern that the auto car will still move after u release the accelerator and the rate of deceleration is nt fast due to the electronics... this is because i was in this autovehicle driven by someone who is nt a p-plater liao. Then a vehicle knocked into the back of our car.. the driver was 'paralysed' by the shock and did nt step on brakes.. in the end the auto-car automatically crashed .... ironic

[NC35]

most scary is female drivers.. dunno what they are thinking sometime..

[revenge]

ok lah, if they pretty but make a small mistake nvm, if big mistake i will bring her home and teach her

[NC35]

ok lah, if they pretty but make a small mistake nvm, if big mistake i will bring her home and teach her

 

can teach me also? i wanna learn.