Shell own law, very conceited

[singkiwi]

Originally posted by william_liu@Feb 24 2005, 01:34 PM

http://www.pei.org/static/fire_reports.htm#injury

 

Hmmm. Where are the statistics for motorcycles?

Ok, so I read a lot of the explanations and the main recurring theme I saw was. people had left the car and upon return to the pump - touched it and it sparked causing a fire.

To me the static is caused by a change in charge between person and car/nozzle, this makes sense, when someone is touching a car they are at the same charge, when the move and then return, they are different, therefore when the touch the car the difference is discharged. aka spark

 

Hang on a minute...

If you sit on a bike you will remain in contact with the bike and therefore no difference in charge between you/your bike/Nozzle. with no change in charge there can be no spark. Does that mean that it is safer to fill you bike while sitting on it???

 

Can anyone back this theory with fact? other opinions?

[william_liu]

Yes, I've been wondering about that for sometime as well.

 

Maybe someone with knowledge on this matter can advise whether this is true or not.

[ultimax]

1. Shell can set whatever rules it wants. It's their property, thus their right. If you don't agree with them, go off. No need to talk so much

 

2. I wouldn't pump petrol while sitting on my bike for the sole reason that the handle bar can easily turn to the left, destabilising the entire bike, causing it to fall. I've seen this happen before. It's not apretty sight, esp when you're mirror's broken!

[TeePeePhobe]

Originally posted by singkiwi@Feb 24 2005, 02:08 PM

Ok, so I read a lot of the explanations and the main recurring theme I saw was. people had left the car and upon return to the pump - touched it and it sparked causing a fire.

To me the static is caused by a change in charge between person and car/nozzle, this makes sense, when someone is touching a car they are at the same charge, when the move and then return, they are different, therefore when the touch the car the difference is discharged. aka spark

 

Hang on a minute...

If you sit on a bike you will remain in contact with the bike and therefore no difference in charge between you/your bike/Nozzle. with no change in charge there can be no spark. Does that mean that it is safer to fill you bike while sitting on it???

 

Can anyone back this theory with fact? other opinions?

This does not apply to SGP. We have 98% or thereabout humidity. We can't even get ourselves to statically charged up even if we tried. The moisture in the air dissapates any buildup. In my whole life, I only encountered static shock when I was in a company with central aircon and thick carpeting. So unless they start to air con the pumps and lay out the red carpet, it is a needless concern.

[singkiwi]

Originally posted by ultimax@Feb 24 2005, 02:18 PM

1. Shell can set whatever rules it wants. It's their property, thus their right. If you don't agree with them, go off. No need to talk so much

 

2. I wouldn't pump petrol while sitting on my bike for the sole reason that the handle bar can easily turn to the left, stabilising the entire bike, causing it to fall. I've seen this happen before. It's not apretty sight, esp when you're mirror's broken!

completely agree, I've never filled a bike while sitting on it. good debate tho.

[william_liu]

One thing to note, even though I pump petrol while sitting, personally I always observe the following:

 

1) Sidestand down

2) Both feet on the ground

3) Both hands on the nozzle

4) Both eyes looking at what I'm doing

 

To me, this seems safe enough. (Unless I suddenly faint while refueling or a car/bike ram me from behind.)

[Starfury]

Originally posted by william_liu@Feb 24 2005, 02:37 PM

One thing to note, even though I pump petrol while sitting, personally I always observe the following:

 

1) Sidestand down

2) Both feet on the ground

3) Both hands on the nozzle

4) Both eyes looking at what I'm doing

 

To me, this seems safe enough. (Unless I suddenly faint while refueling or a car/bike ram me from behind.)

I feel the same.

Just Let mi ######, i am still fuming!!!!

I experience their cold treatment today. I just Snapped Back at the Attendent ( i apologize later ;> today Hot day and Bad mood ) I got the second round of "nagging" from the Pump station manager and I end Up Quarreling with Her. She even threaten not to turn on the pump if i choose to remain sitting on my bike.

 

 

I think i am going to change Pump station soon.. It's not like thay are the only Fuel station around

[dudley]

dont give a s*** abt shell and dont care abt the V-power or what so ever shell patrol....even i buy car i wont go to shell.service s*** and charge more..

kick arse to shell and can choose esso,mobil and caltex and spc.etc

[singkiwi]

Originally posted by Starfury@Feb 24 2005, 03:50 PM

I feel the same.

Just Let mi ######, i am still fuming!!!!

I experience their cold treatment today. I just Snapped Back at the parking Attendent ( i apologize later ;> today Hot day and Bad mood ) I got the second round of "nagging" from the Pump station manager and I end Up Quarreling with Her. She even threaten not to turn on the pump if i choose to remain sitting on my bike.

 

 

I think i am going to change Pump station soon.. It's not like thay are the only Fuel station around

hehe, I wrote to Shell a while back and complained about their service etc. after a few mails and phone conversations blah blah nothiing really came of it, I think they tried to blame it on individual station/person rather than a culture of bad service in Shell. So recently I moved house and found a local station, newly converted SPC. Here was my experience.

 

I rode up and was getting off my bike, The attendant was busy doing something but said "good morning" I started filling my bike and before I was finished the attendant was standing next to the pump to take it from me hang it up etc, I went inside and paid and he said have a nice day as I was leaving. completely converted.... Finally a service station with some service, Well Done SPC cnr Kilarney and Devonshire rd.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by singkiwi@Feb 24 2005, 02:34 PM

completely agree, I've never filled a bike while sitting on it. good debate tho.

 

You're both riding cruisers? With the type of handlebars that have the tendency to sway to one side completely when let go off?

[singkiwi]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Feb 24 2005, 04:59 PM

You're both riding cruisers? With the type of handlebars that have the tendency to sway to one side completely when let go off?

nah sportsbike, just easier to take gloves off etc, never really thought about filling while sitting on, I'll try it next time.

[DM]

Originally posted by TeePeePhobe@Feb 24 2005, 01:54 PM

Pierrot, I'm willing to put down a S$100 bucks as a bet if your can ignite petrol with static. If you managed to do it within the agreed time frame and demonstrate that it is a repeateble condition, you get the money. If not, you lose S$100.

 

Conditions of the test:

 

1)Experiment carried at SGP Room/Temp/Pressure (RTP)

 

2)Static to be generated by actions considered normal behaviour of people, but intensity is not regulated as long as it is not assisted by machine.

 

Example 2a. Rubbing the crap out of an acrylic (example) rod is cheating, no idiot will do that in day to day life. It is akin to dropping a match in the tank.

 

Example 2b. You can comb your hair as many times as you like or run on carpet as long/fast as you want, but using a power buffer to mimic the same effect is unnatural and cheating.

 

3)Timeframe: 1 month. Money is to be handed in advance to 3rd party

 

How are you on? I'm confident that static is a none issue in SGP day to day life and RTP conditions, willing to put the $$ on my word, are you?

omg ffs pls read my post again and carefully dissect it your brain. since f*cking when was i a self proclaimed authorised tester on physics? why are you challenging me with what? $100 to prove that i can't cause ignition with static electricity? you are throughly stupid and im sorry to say that but i simply have to. your approach on this matter is so immature and i wonder why you chose to come up with this "i-pay-u-100-dolla-if-u-make-fire" plan. are you trying to have a last say and make me look stupid? if so, by all means, knock yourself out and go ahead, have a ball, i know better than to argue with irrational people.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by singkiwi@Feb 24 2005, 05:58 PM

nah sportsbike, just easier to take gloves off etc, never really thought about filling while sitting on, I'll try it next time.

 

Hmmm... just a thought. 'Cos I have a sportbike and a Phantom. And the phantom's bar has a tendency to go limp to one side when I let it go. Anyway, matters not, 'cos my sidestand will be down when I pump the gas... and I always keep the pump station on my right side. Helps to prevent tipovers from bad footing or loss of balance.

[eVa]

Originally posted by Pierrot@Feb 24 2005, 01:36 AM

anyways, these rules are implemented for a reason no matter how unlikely the mishap may happen. a precaution nonetheless is still better than ignorance. since it may affect our mortality and doesn't impose extra fees, i won't mind at all. never had the habit of straddling while pumping anyway

advice to people: before jumping on the 'we-hate-shell' bandwagon, pls sit your ass down and think rationally. most people don't even know what we are discussing about, read a few comments and started nodding heads in approval.

 

p.s people who can't think are excused

dude, we are all adults and are entitled to act with liberty within the letter of the law. this 'rule' is neither backed with studies nor with any claim of statistical data. therefore, we can chalk up its implimentation to heresy and urban myth..... kidding! common sense still prevails of coarse, but let's 'sit on our asses' and consider a second. there is a genuine issue that really sparked (pardon pun) off the fire.

 

why the hell are we, a select group of consumers, being fuked over with such mickey mouse rules? safety? c'mon, you can play that number over and over but there are a ton of stuff that cause more fatalities and property damage that ARE in the control of the oil giants......like unsafe docking procedures on oil tankers and not to mention the hundreds of workers who die on oil rigs in the world due to avoidable vocational hazards(no b.s, this is recorded data). yeah, most probably the mofos are worried with suit liabilities but hey, if I was a VP on the board of shell, my priorities would not include worrying about the mostly blue-collar workers (that make up the number of local bikers) sueing my company for some freak accident while pumping gas. moreover, the cost of such liabilities can and often is off-set by third party insurance.

 

also, shell has no legal authority other than the fact that it is the proprietor of the station. while this 'rule' may appear to some to be a case of corporate muscle flexing, to me, it's just a company policy that cost them one loyal customer today, me.

 

i agree with ya the gist has been fogged over with the teeny-bopper-nimcompoops yelling, 'down with the evil corporation!' bit. but the fact is that smart people like you have all too easily glazed over the essential issue at hand with a 'they know better, let them handle it' atittude. this is unhealthy for everyone. here's a story for ya; i have a habit of checking my giro/visa statements at random intervals. i mean with their super cray and deep blue computers you don't expect a mistake rite? guess what, singtel overcharged me $180 last month. not an incredible amount. but do the math and the numbers run high.... just for fun, run your own probablility matrix and lookit the numbers. right, have many chaps here counter check each and every bill you are responsible for? yes yes exercise your personal responsibility responsibly. heehe.

 

so yeah man, i am b!tching. its an irrelevant rule. my preference for either straddling or standing while gassing up aside, my brand loyalty to shell has now been discredited. even though i am not a shareholder, i constitute a paramount economic factor known as consumer/market force/principle client base....watever ya fancy.

 

if you had actually read to this point, by god are you patient. anyway, i'm not sniping..... just taking a long drawn piss. fuk you shell.... all the years of product/brand loyalty and you pull this sh!t on me. and shamelessly blaming the ill-educated attendents for failing to exercise tact when dealing with protests/questions. me not a happy camper.

[Starfury]

Originally posted by eVa@Feb 25 2005, 01:32 AM

it's just a company policy that cost them one loyal customer today, me.

 

Make That Two ... me too ...

 

I just terminated my shell petrol card.

[Fc2222B]

hehehe i realised one thing...

 

u guys here can either become rocket scientists or politicians.. or better still lawyers..

 

the arguments posted are totally powderful!

 

impressed!

 

i was thinking about how i could improve my english.. and chanced upon this thread! Keep it up!

 

i'm amazed... really.. speechless...

[TeePeePhobe]

Originally posted by Pierrot@Feb 25 2005, 12:02 AM

omg ffs pls read my post again and carefully dissect it your brain. since f*cking when was i a self proclaimed authorised tester on physics? why are you challenging me with what? $100 to prove that i can't cause ignition with static electricity? you are throughly stupid and im sorry to say that but i simply have to. your approach on this matter is so immature and i wonder why you chose to come up with this "i-pay-u-100-dolla-if-u-make-fire" plan. are you trying to have a last say and make me look stupid? if so, by all means, knock yourself out and go ahead, have a ball, i know better than to argue with irrational people.

I think I interpret what you're saying correct

 

anyways, these rules are implemented for a reason no matter how unlikely the mishap may happen. a precaution nonetheless is still better than ignorance.

 

I'm no certified tester either, but I'm willing to put my money on my stand, the rule is meaningless as a 'precaution' as the situation is not just improbable, but downright impossible given SGP's environment and this is a product of rational thought. You do know the difference right? I give example. To dio TOTO top prize is improbable even if you buy. But it is impossible if you don't buy. Understand?

 

Thanks for implying those who think shell is being a PITA as 'ignorant'. Are you willing to put your money on YOUR word? Judging from your response, seems like a lot of conjecture and hot air which you're doubting yourself. Ran out of rational retorts and restoring to bad language? *tsk tsk* Why don't you sit your ass down and think rationally instead? Your screen name suits you well!

[ultimax]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Feb 24 2005, 04:59 PM

You're both riding cruisers? With the type of handlebars that have the tendency to sway to one side completely when let go off?

yeah i am. Call me kiasi but I rather err on the side of caution. Since I'm gonna have to get off my bike anyway, I rather just pump standing up.

 

I saw a guy on a phantom fall off his bike and that sort of scared me. I really wouldn't want to damage my bike for a stupid reason like this. He was leaning over to put the nozzle back into its holder and i guess the shift in his body weight caused the bar to lock to the left, the bike to move forward. He tried to stabilise the bike with his legs but I guess a phantom is pretty heavy so he couldn't. He had to let the bike go, and he fell off it. It was quite a mess....i think his mirror broke, handle-bar was misaligned and of course, it was very embarrassing. Putting the side-stand down wouldn't have helped because the bike fell on its right side.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by ultimax@Feb 25 2005, 09:40 AM

yeah i am. Call me kiasi but I rather err on the side of caution. Since I'm gonna have to get off my bike anyway, I rather just pump standing up.

 

I saw a guy on a phantom fall off his bike and that sort of scared me. I really wouldn't want to damage my bike for a stupid reason like this. He was leaning over to put the nozzle back into its holder and i guess the shift in his body weight caused the bar to lock to the left, the bike to move forward. He tried to stabilise the bike with his legs but I guess a phantom is pretty heavy so he couldn't. He had to let the bike go, and he fell off it. It was quite a mess....i think his mirror broke, handle-bar was misaligned and of course, it was very embarrassing. Putting the side-stand down wouldn't have helped because the bike fell on its right side.

 

 

Heheh... That's why I always stop on the left of a pump station. So sidestand on the left, station on the right. Some form of fall barrier at least.

[Lonewolf]

Originally posted by Pierrot@Feb 24 2005, 11:02 AM

As for people who think that this is a attempt to look good in the eyes of the singapore gov, you are speaking out of your anal orifice.

Then WHY, would a MNC implement this rule presumbly knowing that it will inconveniance it customers thereby affecting its reputation in the face of stiff competition.

 

If you say its for our safety, pls I have been working for MNC's for the past 12 years, and they will only implement something, only if there is something for themselfs or required by law which in this case its not, and considering the adverse comments and feedback they get ( as u can plainly see I am not the only one) So WHY.

[comics00]

Originally posted by xiao_p@Feb 23 2005, 01:41 PM

yah i still think they should pump for bikes too

bloody double standards

the patrol stations don't realise sometime we bikers actually pump more than the cars! i pump close to $30 each time but never get svc but ah beng stop behind me ask to pump $10 the bloody attandant even wipe his wind screen

[comics00]

...mmm... many years never pump shell already 'cos it gives my bike the less mileage...haha heng ah

[Lass]

i dun pump at shell and thk goodness for that. wat kinda silly rule is this?

 

stand and pump for bikes without main stand will not allow u to fill full tank.

 

 

did they come out w the rule cos someone tipped over without closing the fuel cap and spilled everything when the bike dropped? otherwise i dun c no rational in doing this.

 

petrol price just went up again rite? sigh....

[Guest motofreak]

Been pumping at JB. No nonsense attendants there... Pump and Pay. Simple concept. Singapore Shells shld follow...

[MS]

its a form of safety precaution measure. There have been cases of bikers having slippages on their foothold and the bike fell creating a big mess. This mess is very hazardous as petrol is very easily combustible. A heated surface of the engine can also cause a possibility for the petrol to burn. Though the chances of a fire is very slim. But Shell is not able to shoulder the responsibility if an explosion takes place due to fire. So they'd rather implement some ' on the surface looks unnecesary' measures then take the responsibilities for the aftermath. Just do what the Romans do when you're in Rome.

 

We have to all view this in a bigger perspective. Anyway, Shell is the best local petrol I've ever pumped other than Caltex Platinum.