Riders and safety

[rrr]

Dear,

 

Thank you for writing in. I agree completely about the way riders dress.

Would you allow us to consider using your letter in our letters page?

Don't mind my telling my son never to ride a bike, it's many a father's

fear, and so many times I've read stories with fathers and mothers

describing how they never wanted their dead sons to be riders. Not because

riding itself is bad, but because it remains so unsafe for riders.

 

Please let me know if you're okay about us carrying your letter, which may

be edited.

If your like-minded biker friends feel equally strongly about the need to

be better protected on the roads,

do encourage them to write to The Straits Times Forum Page, at:

[email protected]

 

I just came in for a short time this morning, and will be leaving the

office soon. If you reply, I won't be able to get back to you again till

tomorrow.

 

Best regards

Alan

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

 

 

 

To

[email protected]

17/04/2005 09:49 cc

AM

Subject

Motorcyclists

 

Dear Sir

 

I almost wept when reading about the tragic death of the Fillipino who had

been only married for a month.

 

Your timely article is the first I've seen on your broadsheet on reducing

the number of rider deaths each year without resorting to blame on only the

 

riders . But let's be honest here, cagers are not the ones who are at

fault

all the time. Riders have a responsibility to protect themselves and their

pillons by dressing appropriately and more importantly riding on the side

of

caution.

 

Continental riders shake their heads in disbelief when they look at the

gear

of local riders; mostly windbreakers worn back to front, T-shirt, shorts

AND

slippers and helmets that barely cover the whole head. In England most

riders suit up in 1.2 milimetre cow hide leather with hard elbow, knee, and

 

back protectors and full-face helmets before riding off. Though it may be

hard to do this in our unforgiving tropical weather, I think much more can

be done to protect ourselves in a fall beacause either it's the cow's or

our

hides that slides off on the tarmac and the more likely, a fatal impact on

barely protected heads. I think it's about time the media lends a hand in

campaining for compulsory safety gear to be worn.

 

Of course cagers can do their part by being more aware of riders around

them

and not be so smugly ensconsed in their SUVs,MPVs and luxury vehicles and

respectfully sir, comments like they would not want their sons, and

increasingly daughters, to be caught on one, do not really help the cause

at

all. Riders are also part of the commuting public and in fact I would

reccomend that more drivers take up pillion or riding courses as part of

their lesson to a license because it helps to see from the other

perspective. In fact when I read grouses on bike forums it's always the

ex-biker turned driver that's the most sympathetic and aware of what goes

on

on roads and the most ignorant ones are the ones whose ink have not dried

off their license.

 

Sir I salute your article once more for its timeliness and pray that the

next motorcyle death you read about would not be another needless trajedy.

 

God bless Mdm Ogana and the four others and may their souls rest in peace.

 

 

 

 

Hi guys what are your views on this?

[mechwira]

i am still unhappy, from when i first read his article until your post above, that the journalist still stops short of acknowledging the fact that drivers have a part to play in rider safety.

 

the problem is simple: drivers know they are part of the problem but they loathe to openly admit it for as long as they are able to remain safe in their vehicles and they are still able to point their fingers at the many 'problem bikers' on our roads.

 

in his first article, the journalist says something like "We may view these motorcyclists as pests BUT they are road-users too." unfortunately, that is the only extent to which he admits that drivers play an equally large role in biker safety. i was expecting that line to be an opener to how drivers shd equally respect riders. nope, didn happen. that article may have stopped short at blasting bikers, but it also stopeed short at addressing the issue honestly and fully.

 

and this reply. he agrees that bikers shd dress safely. and..... no comments about drivers again.....

 

all the other ppl who wrote in to defend riders didn get any reply. but the one letter that mentioned bikers shd dress safely, and out comes a reply, and a reply that admits that bikers shd dress safely.

 

how not to get angry. i cannot help but feel that the journalist is as bigoted as the rest of them, and i justify my sentiments as above.

 

Safe gear protects us bikers when we fall. go ahead and tell us to put on safe gear. but do not forget that safe drivers will reduce the number of us falling. why focus on one and not the other?

 

my opinions have been all the while, go ahead and point at how some 'problem bikers' ride dangerously etc etc etc. go ahead make riding tests tougher, more stringent, make us watch videos etc etc etc. but for as long as no similar measure is taken for drivers, for as long as u dont openly admit that drivers play an equally important role, excuse me for feeling skeptical about some 'sincere' wish to make riding safer. this includes the authorities.

 

PS: Any anger in this post is at the journalist and not the threadstarter.

[Tyrian]

welcome to Singapore, a place where nobody will admit that drivers r at fault whenever an accident has occur involving a motorcycle..

[Guest nE0]

Theres absolutely no problem with wearing a proper mesh airflow jacket in our tropical weather, I've done that before in the blazing afternoon sun with FF, leather gloves and mesh jacket.

 

Not a problem, as long as the bike is moving.

 

In fact, its even cooler to use mesh jackets compared to wearing jackets, windbreakers or raincoats to shield the hands from the sun. These garments do not allow air to flow through freely. On the other hand, mesh jackets are so effective, I actually had to use the windproof, waterproof inner liner when touring even in the hot afternoon sun, because all that wind flowing through the jacket not only makes my shirt dirty, my whole body feels even hotter when I stop because its generating alot of heat due to all that wind.

 

Then again, I'm riding a street bike, so theres no fairing to protect me from the wind. For those riding full fairing bikes, or worse still big tourers, the efficient fairing also means less wind to cool the hot rider.

 

I feel Fullface, gloves and covered shoes are the bare minimum for local street riding. Of course, different people have different "bare minimum" levels.

[nivleK1985]

Hmm about the part that they compare rider in europe and sg.

They wear full leather etc. =X The speed they travel and the distance they travel also a factor.

 

For me ? I rides with FullFace and Gloves ( if they ain't wet due to rain ) and long pants/jeans and covered shoe.

[rhema83]

The journalist seems to be biased against bikers. He likes to emphasize on the irresponsibility of some riders, but does not mention the equal irresponsibility of many drivers.

 

It takes two hands to clap. When a bike collides with a car, it is both the rider's and the driver's fault. The society generally stereotypes riders as reckless and dangerous. However, we have seen many cases of reckless drivers taking away precious lives of other riders, drivers and pedestrains.

[rhema83]

I am wondering if we should have a campaign against discrimination against bikers. This topic has been lurking around for too long and nobody has done anything about it.

 

If the society still thinks that riders are poor second-class road users, then we should destroy that miserable stereotype. I am sure there are fathers and mothers who ride, and also riders from the upper echelons of society, who can change this misconception.

 

I am definitely not the first one but I will be one of those who will ride to work in CBD wearing shirt, pants and tie.

[syaiguy]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 21 2005, 05:29 AM

I am wondering if we should have a campaign against discrimination against bikers. This topic has been lurking around for too long and nobody has done anything about it.

 

If the society still thinks that riders are poor second-class road users, then we should destroy that miserable stereotype. I am sure there are fathers and mothers who ride, and also riders from the upper echelons of society, who can change this misconception.

 

I am definitely not the first one but I will be one of those who will ride to work in CBD wearing shirt, pants and tie.

after exam can??? tink most of de ppl active in SBF still skooling and got exams now... cannot campaign liao

[nivleK1985]

=D i also wear formal on my bike hehe, attachment work is office kind need formal

i don't mind joining campaign =D

[mechwira]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 21 2005, 05:29 AM

I am wondering if we should have a campaign against discrimination against bikers. This topic has been lurking around for too long and nobody has done anything about it.

personally i prefer TP to launch a campaign on riding safety from the non-rider side of things.

 

what i mean is, i'm sure we all know, everytime got campaign about road safety and whenever the advert is about bikes, what do we see? on tv we will see the reckless rider weaving in and out of traffic like macam motogp, then we hear a crash and then the rider on the floor. yes? or on the bus we the rider wearing white long sleeve shirt with fluorescent vest and 1980's helmet.

 

all familiar?

 

thats the problem, or at least a large contributing factor of our problem. all these adverts serve to show that riding is dangerous because the rider is dangerous. it permeates into the drivers' minds until they actually believe that we are the sole problem.

 

remember the 'shock' advert a few years ago, the pedestrian about to cross suddenly the car slam into him? i want those kind, made for us.

 

i want to see advert of how the driver tailgate the bike, then when another car in front of the bike jam brake, the bike oso jam brake but the car behind tailgate so end up slam him into the car in front. or the biker skid, the car tailgating so run him over.

 

i want to see advert of how driver shove biker out of the lane, and how slight graze causes bike to topple.

 

launch this kind of campaign; tackle it from the non-rider side. for as long as the adverts only show the reckless rider, drivers will continue to sit smugly in their cars, bully us and then point their fingers at the biker. never will they point at themselves, so somebody has to.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by mechwira@Apr 21 2005, 10:43 AM

i want to see advert of how the driver tailgate the bike, then when another car in front of the bike jam brake, the bike oso jam brake but the car behind tailgate so end up slam him into the car in front. or the biker skid, the car tailgating so run him over.

Sorry off topic a bit.

 

The above scenario, whose fault is it huh?

 

I thk 99% of the drivers will blame it on the rider of "failing to have proper control of his machine", but in actual fact, wldn't the driver to be blamed too?

 

B cos if he folloews a safety distance, he wld not have kill an innocent life!

[Keynes]

I understand from one China's tour guide said that in Beijing (not sure other Chinese cities), that once a 4-wheeler got an accident with a 2 wheeler, the 4 wheeler must show proof of his innocence, otherwise he is taken as guilty.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by Keynes@Apr 21 2005, 12:54 PM

Sorry off topic a bit.

 

The above scenario, whose fault is it huh?

 

I thk 99% of the drivers will blame it on the rider of "failing to have proper control of his machine", but in actual fact, wldn't the driver to be blamed too?

 

B cos if he folloews a safety distance, he wld not have kill an innocent life!

yah thats wat i mean.

 

the biker fall off, depending on exactly why, could be blamed for failing to maintain proper control.

 

but if we're talking about rider fatalities on the road, the overall issue, the driver shdn tailgate.

 

the biker doesn have to fall even. imagine the car in front of the bike jam brake, the biker oso jam brake, but the car behind the bike gonna slam him into the in front car. this one certianly happen before.

 

tailagating is not supposed to be done under any circumstances, but it becomes much more crucial for riders. i was extremely irked when a driver wrote in to ST a few months ago about how if he tailgate a slow vehicle to 'signal' that he want to be lth thru, and accident occur then how can he be blamed, coz the front vehicle was 'hogging'. somebody needs to tell that prick that tailgating is not allowed regardless the circumstances, and certianly it is not a 'valid signal' to the front vehicle that he wants to be let thru.

 

basically, who to be blamed is one thing, but must also consider the overall biker safety.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by Keynes@Apr 21 2005, 12:57 PM

I understand from one China's tour guide said that in Beijing (not sure other Chinese cities), that once a 4-wheeler got an accident with a 2 wheeler, the 4 wheeler must show proof of his innocence, otherwise he is taken as guilty.

while i consider any 'guilty until proven innocent' method as too extreme, certainly i very much wish to see improvement on our regulations.

 

i believe here action will only be taken against the guilty party in an accident if the victim is hospitalised or there is damage to public property; otherwise no action to be taken.

 

i believe in UK and some other countries, once u hit another vehicle (including a stationary parked vehicle and the driver/rider not around), you must immediately make a report if not its an offence. action will be taken. now thats a lot better.

 

at the very least, i wish that when an accident involving bike occurs here, a report MUST be made, and then the guilty party penalised (even if it were the rider) with 'reckless riding' charge or something more serious accordingly. the current rule about report and action made only if hospitalised or damage to public property places bikers at a disadvantage, because an accident between 2 cars that results in a slight dent in the car, if it were a bike it would have thrown the rider off. if the authorities are serious about trying to reduce rider fatalities, they shd consider such steps.

 

in fact i might just send a letter. after my exams in 2 weeks.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by mechwira@Apr 21 2005, 01:42 PM

i believe in UK and some other countries, once u hit another vehicle (including a stationary parked vehicle and the driver/rider not around), you must immediately make a report if not its an offence. action will be taken. now thats a lot better.

 

Yes.

 

This is a very good point and we drivers/riders will certainly benefited form this regualtion, if implemented. Imagine u wake up one morning and found that your bike crashed! However, the circumstances here is the rdier is not injured, so this is still not very critical compared to your second point on ompuslory report of accidnet with bikes.

 

 

at the very least, i wish that when an accident involving bike occurs here, a report MUST be made, and then the guilty party penalised (even if it were the rider) with 'reckless riding' charge or something more serious accordingly. the current rule about report and action made only if hospitalised or damage to public property places bikers at a disadvantage, because an accident between 2 cars that results in a slight dent in the car, if it were a bike it would have thrown the rider off. if the authorities are serious about trying to reduce rider fatalities, they shd consider such steps.

 

 

But wouldn't almost all accident with bikes reuslt in injury cases, so reports are compuslory? So the current RULE is fine, I think.

 

The current rule on reporting accidnet also includes cases of :-

1) if any accident party is conveyed to the hospital by ambulance,

2) if he/she is not conveyed by ambulance, if he/she is given 3 days mc or hoispatlised, it becomes a reporatble case.

3) if it involves pedestrains, bicycles (basically vehciles which do not have insurance), gahment vehicles or foreign vehicles.

 

I certainly don't object to make all accidents with 2 wheelers to become compuslory reporatable, since it will deter drivers from making silly, risky moves.

 

What is not correct, IMHO, in our so called first world society is that:-

1) we fail to get willing witness for many, many accidents, everyone couldn't care less,

 

2) our society by and large, still look down on bikes, IMHO, I think this is due to:-

a) old stigma, materialistic thinking, bikes r for poor man, this is esp. obvious in S'pore, where cars r 7 times more ex than bikes;

b) public education, media portray of bikers behaviour, as memntioned by u;

c) bad riding behaviour shown by some of our fellow bikers.

 

Mechwira, I wish u good luck for ur exams, pls ride in after ur exams, share w us ur letter.

[mechwira]

Originally posted by Keynes@Apr 21 2005, 02:24 PM

But wouldn't almost all accident with bikes reuslt in injury cases, so reports are compuslory? So the current RULE is fine, I think.

 

I certainly don't object to make all accidents with 2 wheelers to become compuslory reporatable, since it will deter drivers from making silly, risky moves.

 

Mechwira, I wish u good luck for ur exams, pls ride in after ur exams, share w us ur letter.

the current rule, in my opinion, is good at addressing bike accidents when there is serious injury with hospitilisation and/or >3 days mc. but i feel it is not sufficient in addressing the vulnerability of riders. like you said, more can be done to prevent cars from bullying us. a prevention rather than a cure, if u will.

 

my grouse is that in driver&driver, bang a bit u can settle on the spot; if u run oso wont consider hit&run or anything if the only damage is dent to the other car. its not an offence so long as no serious injury, no damage to public property.

 

and thats such a wrong attitude arising from this regulation, because in driver&rider, there is no such thing as 'bang a bit' for the rider. i believe such a regulation would prevent such attitude from drivers; that there is no such thing as 'bang a bit so its ok i can cabut today and do again tomorrow'. thats my intention in proposing such a regulation.

 

no problems about sharing my letter. i'll post it up here or something when i'm done with it after my exams.

[rhema83]

I remember someone posting a link to an Australian TV ad that talks about safety of bikers. In the ad, the driver is put onto the bike and the rider is put into the car to have a reverse perspective. The message was "mutual consideration leads to safer roads".

 

We need something like that!

[rhema83]

Originally posted by mechwira@Apr 21 2005, 02:48 AM

the current rule, in my opinion, is good at addressing bike accidents when there is serious injury with hospitilisation and/or >3 days mc. but i feel it is not sufficient in addressing the vulnerability of riders. like you said, more can be done to prevent cars from bullying us. a prevention rather than a cure, if u will.

 

my grouse is that in driver&driver, bang a bit u can settle on the spot; if u run oso wont consider hit&run or anything if the only damage is dent to the other car. its not an offence so long as no serious injury, no damage to public property.

 

and thats such a wrong attitude arising from this regulation, because in driver&rider, there is no such thing as 'bang a bit' for the rider. i believe such a regulation would prevent such attitude from drivers; that there is no such thing as 'bang a bit so its ok i can cabut today and do again tomorrow'. thats my intention in proposing such a regulation.

 

no problems about sharing my letter. i'll post it up here or something when i'm done with it after my exams.

I totally agree with your viewpoint.

 

I am having exams in 3 weeks so I can't commit right now. But I'll be back with a vengeance

 

Anyway its interesting to be in a society where bikers are much more respected than they are back home. My driving friends will go "Wow, you ride a bike? That's so much fun!" in amaze. In Singapore you will probably get "that look" and "Oh, really? So dangerous!"

 

Stop the discrimination. I'll make sure the next time someone thinks that we bikers are poor, we have riders from the upper class to shatter their miserable stereotypes. (Oh well, I am trying to make it to the upper class... Trying...)

[Tyrian]

it's hard to change the perspective of their view that riding is dangerous.. what's normal for us is foreign to other countries and vice versa.. riding a motorcycle may be deem as cool in the european countries but right here in singapore, it is the complete opposite..

 

i'm not trying "pour cold water" but if we really want to change the perspective that riding is dangerous, we should start from the younger generation and not to those who refuse to change their mindset..

[Keynes]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 22 2005, 04:59 AM

My driving friends will go "Wow, you ride a bike? That's so much fun!" in amaze. In Singapore you will probably get "that look" and "Oh, really? So dangerous!"

Hi.

 

Which country is the comments from?

 

Yeah in S'pore, when they know u ride a bike the response r more or less like tt:-

1) erh, u ride bike? So dangerous (ignorant type),

2) hey, y ride bike, so dangerous, drive car lah, safer (ignorant n caring),

3) alamak, be careful ok, u got no protection leh, ride carefully ok (worrying type),

4) hey, don't ride bike lah, raining how? hot lah, if I were u, I rather take public transport,

5) ride bike 4 wat, S'pore public transport so good, save the money to buy car lah, car now so cheap,

 

The above will inevitably come with a type of look, can't describe it lah, juz one kind of look.

 

Not to mention some extreme cases where parents theathen to disown sons and wives to divorce husband who ride bike.

 

We need some campaigns to boost up (1) the image of bikers, both in terms of safety consiouness and (2) self protrayal.

[Arcfire]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 22 2005, 04:52 AM

I remember someone posting a link to an Australian TV ad that talks about safety of bikers. In the ad, the driver is put onto the bike and the rider is put into the car to have a reverse perspective. The message was "mutual consideration leads to safer roads".

 

We need something like that!

Yeah agreed.....

 

Liked the suggestion of letting drivers have a course on riding on the road as well, will definitely promote mutual understanding.....

 

The best would be making it compulsory for everyone to go through class 2b course as a prerequisite for taking a class 3 licence... one year experience on the road compulsory riding before allowed to take tp for class3.

although this idea seems too farfetched....something along this line would really help to promote awareness....

[rhema83]

Originally posted by Arcfire@Apr 22 2005, 07:52 AM

Yeah agreed.....

 

Liked the suggestion of letting drivers have a course on riding on the road as well, will definitely promote mutual understanding.....

 

The best would be making it compulsory for everyone to go through class 2b course as a prerequisite for taking a class 3 licence... one year experience on the road compulsory riding before allowed to take tp for class3.

although this idea seems too farfetched....something along this line would really help to promote awareness....

Making them take an extra course is absurd. However they should be pillioned by the bike instructor onto the busy road let them see from the rider's point of view. Let them experience first-hand the dangers other drivers put us in.

[Lass]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 24 2005, 12:52 PM

Making them take an extra course is absurd. However they should be pillioned by the bike instructor onto the busy road let them see from the rider's point of view. Let them experience first-hand the dangers other drivers put us in.

this sounds like a brilliant idea!

[Arcfire]

The idea may be far-fetched but the logic is somewhat similar to have 3 classes of bike licenses. Why should people be able to handle 1000cc vehicles when they do not know how to handle a 50cc vehicle?

 

Handling of a bike and cars may be 2 different things completely but both have a very important role to play in respect to the high accident rates.

 

Having being pillioned is simply not enuff.... after the initial 'shock' wears off, the fear simply retreats back to the back of the mind...one ear in, out the other...

They will not know how riders feel when they are in control of the bike.....

[konsandy]

i think ppl who always think motorcylist are always the fault are idiots.. btw will have law to regulate attire .. it is so stupid this is the hot tropics not ice land .. u mean must wear full gear, bioots, full face helmet , gloves??? again never think of the poorer rider who can;t afford these...

 

aslo wat the pt of wearing armour but s'porean drivers so bas***d?? u don;t solve the problem & the problem is S"pore driver are just bas***d IRRESPONSBLE!!