Buying new bike? Wanna Scold Motortiam? Pls Read 1st..

[gucci]

Hi to all. After reading all the numerous accusations against the different motorshops in Singapore and seeing quite a few apology threads, i hope that this thread will help some of you out there who, after having a bad experience with yet another motorshop, think carefully before you type all those seriously consequential accusations. i shall try to keep it as short as possible.

 

First of all, the motorshop that you are accusing cannot be made liable for your bad experience(purchase of bike/services) with them.This is because,you(the buyer), had signed a contract of purchase pertaining to the sale of the bike. And in the eyes of the law, signing a contract means you have READ, UNDERSTOOD and AGREED to their terms and conditions. That means you buy the bike as a product. If the product comes with flaws and the contract does NOT state that the flaws will be rectified(repairable) within a certain period of time(warranty), then the motorshop has no obligation to do so. This means to say that if your bike has lousy brake pads and they did not state in the contract that worn out brake pads will be replaced, either you pay for a new set of brake pads with your own money OR just curse yourself for not checking the bike properly prior to the purchase!

 

I realised that alot of buyers out there sign BLANK contracts due to their anxiousness of getting ownership of the bike. This is so very wrong. All the details like bike price, interest rate, special terms(like new tyres, servicing, headlight protectors etc etc) MUST be stated in the contract and not by words of trust. It is due to this so called 'trust' that many of the buyers get cheated. Some shops even like to include GST AFTER the buyer had signed on the blank document. So make sure that all details have been WRITTEN and stated in the contract itself before signing that piece of document(and that includes GST as well).

 

Lately it has been brought to my attention that in some cases, some details like the promise of number plates, free change of tyres etc etc were written in PENCIL in the contract. Remember that things written in pencil can be erased so either you get a photocopy of that piece of contract or you do not sign it unless everything is written in ink! Thus after reading so far, ask yourself how many of the mistakes have you made before buying the product(bike) from the relevant shops? Salesmen are there for a reason. Their job is to sell the products and they will promise you the moon and the stars just to entice you to make that downpayment and get your signature. So beware!!

 

Many of you love to accuse the SHOPS which itself is a mistake. A motorshop(company) is a separate entity from the person who is running it. And the salesman who has given you a bad service or bad purchase should be seen as a unique individual and not as THE SHOP itself. So in truth, when you decide to accuse a bikeshop itself, you are bringing its reputation down and possibly affecting its sales. The COMPANY has every right to sue you and ask for compensation as we have seen with the numerous apologies to the respective bikeshops in this forum. So remember, it's the salesman who has given you a bad service and NOT the shop(company). Please learn from the mistakes and spend your money wisely. Maybe you can mod your bike with all those aftermarket products instead of paying for damages to the shop that seeks redress from you. haha

 

With this i hope that bikers out there will be better informed when purchasing bikes or when trying to vent their anger by accusing the shops. And pls do some research of those shops that you have to be wary of before making those purchases/servicings instead of coming here to vent your anger and get into potential trouble after making the wrong decisions. If you don't like the services provided by a shop(for e.g the way they handle your bike) then don't visit them again. Simple as that. Don't come here and start defaming the respective shops again.

 

PS: on a sidenote, has anyone realised that those so called blackshops are the ones that have been expanding their business? it seems like there are many dumb carrot heads out there who give them business just bcause the shop offers them a very low or no downpayment at all. this marketing strategy gives them so many carrots to chop. haha..

[HellRider]

Well said buddy...

 

Mods, this must be made sticky!

[aRcHeR]

erm.. just to add on the part where the shop and salesman.

 

though the company(bikeshop) might be a seperate entity from the salesman, but do note that he/she(salesman) is actually representing the company to close the sale. he/she might be an unique individual in the shop, but that does not mean that he is not part of the shop, unless he/she has terminated his/her services to the company.

 

often you see sales personnel introduce themselves, by their name and where they are from. therefore they are representing the company, in somewhere or another.

 

so the key thing here is, want to scold motordiam, get your facts correct and aim at the correct person...

 

cheers!

[kennethy]

well said by the threadstarter...

 

alot of times, the so call 'con job' is actually a loophole that the shop will exploit yet buyers do not noticed.

 

maybe the mitigation that the buyers would claim that they are not exactly into the business so are not aware of these loopholes... fair enough i say, but whats there to stop you from asking around first? since there are so many forumers here, i am sure many are able to give sound advises pertaining to purchases...

 

if you want time to consider, by all means ask for a written quote, as well as let the shop specify how long the quote is valid. if the shop come out with 'pattern' to make you commit there and then, the more you should consider... a reputable shop will always be willing to let you consider.

 

if you decided to sign on the dotted line already, then no point coming back and complain or asked if the deal is fair or not... i strongly support that one should do their proper 'homework' before making the decision.

 

also, just a personal comment is that many choose the company to purchase their bike from based on the sole consideration of 'lowest quoted price'.

 

for me, i bought all my 3 bikes from a more pricey shop. reason for my selection as well as being repeated customer is that though they charge more, but at the end of the day, i get a peace of mind to know that they will delivery what was promised (like choice of colour, registration no). to me, the 'cost' of keep going back to the shop / inconvenience / bad dispute will ended up be higher than what i would have pay upfront.

[kish_garfield]

mia yi ge xin an...the most impt

[Arcfire]

Another thing to add on. Even though signing on the dotted line does not mean that they are bound to the contract word for word. Some contracts have terms which cannot bind the buyer as it is not reasonable. in what situations is it not reasonable that is debatable.

 

Do not be afraid to take legal action if you have sufficient proof that you have been given the short end of the stick.

 

Even for 2nd hand bikes, they are bound to sell you a bike that is of merchantable quality. Meaning that it should be fit for its purpose. If they give you the bike with balding tyres they should replace for free because balding tyres are not fit for their purpose.

If they sell you a bike which breaks down on the 1st day they are liable to repair it because it is again, not fit for its purpose.

 

I how this helps some of the pple out there.

[ThePole]

there are some points which are incorrect: -

 

If the product comes with flaws and the contract does NOT state that the flaws will be rectified(repairable) within a certain period of time(warranty), then the motorshop has no obligation to do so.

 

this does not apply to new bikes. if it is faulty, you are protected under the Sales of Goods Act to receive merchandise of marketable quality. even second hand bike should come with some warranty. the company has no right to shirk all its responsibilities just because the contract say so. Like what Arcfire has said, a contract cannot be one-sided cos it will be deemed as an unfair contract. Bring them to court and you will not actaullay lose! On the other hand, if you buy from an individual, you will not have such guarantee. However, please remember that there is a time factor involved. you cannot expect the motortiam to repair after 1 month of riding...

 

Many of you love to accuse the SHOPS which itself is a mistake. A motorshop(company) is a separate entity from the person who is running it. And the salesman who has given you a bad service or bad purchase should be seen as a unique individual and not as THE SHOP itself. So in truth, when you decide to accuse a bikeshop itself, you are bringing its reputation down and possibly affecting its sales. The COMPANY has every right to sue you and ask for compensation as we have seen with the numerous apologies to the respective bikeshops in this forum. So remember, it's the salesman who has given you a bad service and NOT the shop(company). Please learn from the mistakes and spend your money wisely. Maybe you can mod your bike with all those aftermarket products instead of paying for damages to the shop that seeks redress from you. haha

 

 

here, i second archer's opinion:

 

 

...that he/she(salesman) is actually representing the company to close the sale. he/she might be an unique individual in the shop, but that does not mean that he is not part of the shop, unless he/she has terminated his/her services to the company.

 

often you see sales personnel introduce themselves, by their name and where they are from. therefore they are representing the company, in somewhere or another.

 

 

cos the salesperson is on the company payroll and therefore he/she is representing the company. you cannot isolate the salesperson from the company. to add on further, if the salesman has resigned, complain to the Managing Director. but here you better be sure to have your facts very accurate, cos any minute you may just get a lawyer letter... and please, don't write in forums cos the walls have ears, and the internet has IP addresses.

[Guest NPNT]

mia yi ge xin an

What the f.ark is dis?

[Davin]

What the f.ark is dis?

 

It means to "buy a peace of the heart"...often used to describe like you pay a bit more just because you are dealing with a shop that is more trusted so you don't get full of doubts after the deal...

[Demon]

Like what Arcfire has said, a contract cannot be one-sided cos it will be deemed as an unfair contract.

 

A contract is never fair, it will always favour the side that drafted it. Would you draft a contract which disadvantage yourself ? Just like a scholarship, HDB, car sales agreement...etc. That's life. You either accept the contract wholesale as you are not at liberty to amend any of the clauses, or take your business elsewhere.

 

Bring them to court and you will not actaullay lose! On the other hand, if you buy from an individual, you will not have such guarantee.

 

That could be true if you can get a pro bono counsel, otherwise litigation is for the party with the deeper pocket.

[roseonfire]

Humans are always finding ways to blame others if they make mistakes or when things go wrong.. And there are some who are always interested in picking on others & they fail to see that they themselves are not perfect.. Sorry for being off topic Good post threadstarter.

[warrior.c.o.n.p]

What the f.ark is dis?

 

haha... somethings like confidential!!!

 

lets give a round of applause for treadstarter... cheers..

[Guest NPNT]

It means to "buy a peace of the heart"...often used to describe like you pay a bit more just because you are dealing with a shop that is more trusted so you don't get full of doubts after the deal...

Thanks for writing it in english.

[jay_jay2212]

Wow.... treadstarter, are u one of the salesman....?

How much commision do they earn when each bike is sold? Let's share...

 

Usually this salesman is very clever. They wil just said "sign here, here, here and here" We gundu, will just sign sign n sign without even reading the agreement. Why? B'cuz there are so many agreement and too many things to read.. Am i correct to said that? Or even sometimes, the will hide the agrement portion with another piece of paper which u are going to sign. They will just stack the few piece of signing paper together n will only let u see the signature part. What u will get to see fully or hold the paper is insurance or garantor paper..

 

Even the interest rate we don't care so much and didn't bother to ask. What new buyer mistake is that, they will ask for the price of the bike and then how much is the mthly inst. Then whatever the salesman, calculate or type so many numbers in the calculator, we also dun care to ask..

 

Some shop even best, when u buy dat tym, they never mention to u anything about early settlement fee. But when u want to sell ur bike or pay all ur loan, u will get a penalty charge for early settlement! Sound funny but it's true.. Cheers!!

[DM]

PS: on a sidenote, has anyone realised that those so called blackshops are the ones that have been expanding their business? it seems like there are many dumb carrot heads out there who give them business just bcause the shop offers them a very low or no downpayment at all. this marketing strategy gives them so many carrots to chop. haha..

 

 

 

aye, after reading this, i realised this "marketing strategy" was actually started by our beloved gahment. does anyone realise the similarities to payouts, voting followed by resentment and last but not least, LPPL? good post by the TS, i see you got up.

[gucci]

there are some points which are incorrect: -

 

 

 

this does not apply to new bikes. if it is faulty, you are protected under the Sales of Goods Act to receive merchandise of marketable quality. even second hand bike should come with some warranty. the company has no right to shirk all its responsibilities just because the contract say so. Like what Arcfire has said, a contract cannot be one-sided cos it will be deemed as an unfair contract. Bring them to court and you will not actaullay lose! On the other hand, if you buy from an individual, you will not have such guarantee. However, please remember that there is a time factor involved. you cannot expect the motortiam to repair after 1 month of riding...

 

 

 

yup i was referring to 2nd hand bikes for the warranty part. because for new bikes, warranty should cover everything by default and for a certain period of time usually 6 months or so. maybe my post wasn't clear so thank you for pointing that out.

 

and i am NOT a salesman. i am relating my observations made from my fair share of bikes purchased, when i accompany my frenz to buy bikes and also from hearing their experiances.

[Arcfire]

A contract is never fair, it will always favour the side that drafted it. Would you draft a contract which disadvantage yourself ? Just like a scholarship, HDB, car sales agreement...etc. That's life. You either accept the contract wholesale as you are not at liberty to amend any of the clauses, or take your business elsewhere.

 

 

 

That could be true if you can get a pro bono counsel, otherwise litigation is for the party with the deeper pocket.

 

Yes that is true for such contracts, in other kinds of contract where it is open for discussion it is another thing altogether.

 

But again, it might be unfair but it cannot be to the point that it penalises the other party extremely. These contracts will never be valid.

[roseonfire]

 

Usually this salesman is very clever. They wil just said "sign here, here, here and here" We gundu, will just sign sign n sign without even reading the agreement. Why? B'cuz there are so many agreement and too many things to read.. Am i correct to said that? Or even sometimes, the will hide the agrement portion with another piece of paper which u are going to sign. They will just stack the few piece of signing paper together n will only let u see the signature part. What u will get to see fully or hold the paper is insurance or garantor paper..

 

Even the interest rate we don't care so much and didn't bother to ask. What new buyer mistake is that, they will ask for the price of the bike and then how much is the mthly inst. Then whatever the salesman, calculate or type so many numbers in the calculator, we also dun care to ask..

 

Some shop even best, when u buy dat tym, they never mention to u anything about early settlement fee. But when u want to sell ur bike or pay all ur loan, u will get a penalty charge for early settlement! Sound funny but it's true.. Cheers!!

 

 

hAHA REMinds me of myself just now.. sign here n there anyhow blindly n in d end make around 1k loss.. so much for being blind.. cant believe i even study contract law in school.. such a bodoh me..

[roger]

A contract is never fair, it will always favour the side that drafted it. Would you draft a contract which disadvantage yourself ? Just like a scholarship, HDB, car sales agreement...etc. That's life. You either accept the contract wholesale as you are not at liberty to amend any of the clauses, or take your business elsewhere.

 

 

 

That could be true if you can get a pro bono counsel, otherwise litigation is for the party with the deeper pocket.

 

Yes, a contract is never fair, but who would want to sign something that is unfair to them? Pls always remember that a contract must consist of the following 4 elements;

 

1) Offer

2) Acceptance

3) Consideration

4) Intention to create a legal relation

 

should any one of these be missing, the contract will be invalid. I would say most of the time, pt 3, consideration can be the mitigating factor. If you feel that it is worth the $$ to engage a legal rep to sue for "consideration", then by all means. Else u better be wise and willing when u sign the "contract". Oh ya, also, a contract need NOT be in written form as long as you can prove that the above 4 elements are present.

[yenyenpark]

i tok if go court, we can get lawyer to argue, they neber explain to us.. then ask us sign here and there..

 

r they suppose to explain to us too?? for example, M1 shop now practice when we sign the contract..

 

of course, many ppl decide to apology and close case instead of fighting for it..

[Demon]

Yes, a contract is never fair, but who would want to sign something that is unfair to them? Pls always remember that a contract must consist of the following 4 elements;

 

1) Offer

2) Acceptance

3) Consideration

4) Intention to create a legal relation

.

 

Fair to the seller is not always fair to the buyer, this relationship is mutually non-exclusvie. I can give you some example of contracts that fulfill all conditions of a contract in the eyes of any court in the world, yet you were willing enter into contractual relationship without a word of protest, probably even with a smile.

 

1. Buying a HDB. You are forever known as a "Lessee" even had you paid in full. Yet, any problem with the flat such as flaking ceilings, leaking pipes, it's the lessee problem, and your resources to solve them.

 

2. Buying insurance for car or bike. Regardless the price your paid, the vehicle is always insured under a magical figure which is never disclosed, and guarded more closely than state's secret which is only known as "market value". So a car bought for $80k, the next day you lost it in JB, you probably get only $60k at most. Now, who is going to make up the discrepancy ? Isn't it the fundamental of insurance to put you back in the same state of affair prior to the loss ?

 

3. Credit card. Any outstanding balance not paid within the period stipulated stated in the monthly statement will attract an interest of 2% per month, that's 24% per year. Your deposit in the same bank that issued that credit card would earn you no more than 2.5% interest per year.

 

Do we get a lawyer to vet all these agreements like what we do for business ? Probably not. But why not ?

 

[Aie]

And should you do get chopped by the motordiam cos you didn't do your homework first, take it as an expensive lesson learnt. No point KPKB over spilt milk...

[roger]

Fair to the seller is not always fair to the buyer, this relationship is mutually non-exclusvie. I can give you some example of contracts that fulfill all conditions of a contract in the eyes of any court in the world, yet you were willing enter into contractual relationship without a word of protest, probably even with a smile.

 

1. Buying a HDB. You are forever known as a "Lessee" even had you paid in full. Yet, any problem with the flat such as flaking ceilings, leaking pipes, it's the lessee problem, and your resources to solve them.

 

2. Buying insurance for car or bike. Regardless the price your paid, the vehicle is always insured under a magical figure which is never disclosed, and guarded more closely than state's secret which is only known as "market value". So a car bought for $80k, the next day you lost it in JB, you probably get only $60k at most. Now, who is going to make up the discrepancy ? Isn't it the fundamental of insurance to put you back in the same state of affair prior to the loss ?

 

3. Credit card. Any outstanding balance not paid within the period stipulated stated in the monthly statement will attract an interest of 2% per month, that's 24% per year. Your deposit in the same bank that issued that credit card would earn you no more than 2.5% interest per year.

 

Do we get a lawyer to vet all these agreements like what we do for business ? Probably not. But why not ?

 

 

Precisely! that's why I said, "who would want to sign something that is unfair to them?"

 

Everyone has got different perception of what is fair and what is not. Yes, for DB, you are the lessee, but most of them do not bother as most will see it as "their" flat. you can't get HDB to do all the renovation work and bi-annual repainting to "your" house, can you?

 

Let's not bring it too far, we will discuss about the matter of bike shops entering to a contract with the buyer. I believe most of us would not ask for more then what we should when we get a bike from the shop but basic necessity to ensure that the bike is safe to ride and marketable.

 

Well, at the end of the day, the "fairness" is determined by individual on the price paid VS the quality of product and serviced receive.

[contrarian]

1. Buying a HDB. You are forever known as a "Lessee" even had you paid in full. Yet, any problem with the flat such as flaking ceilings, leaking pipes, it's the lessee problem, and your resources to solve them.

 

Under this legal system, there are many concepts of property and the rights to property. Even a short term tenant has the right to property, and this right includes to quiet enjoyment and to exclude the landlord from the rented premises.

 

A long term lease of more than 7 years is considered to be a much stronger bundle of rights which should be registered with the land authority.

 

The lessee of a HDB flat can sell his leasehold estate, lease it out, do renovation works and the like.

 

On the other hand, for lessees who have bought directly a new flat from the HDB, the HDB has to fix construction defects notified to them during the first year. For most of the newer flats now under construction, HDB is offering a 5 year warranty for construction defects.

 

2. Buying insurance for car or bike. Regardless the price your paid, the vehicle is always insured under a magical figure which is never disclosed, and guarded more closely than state's secret which is only known as "market value". So a car bought for $80k, the next day you lost it in JB, you probably get only $60k at most. Now, who is going to make up the discrepancy ? Isn't it the fundamental of insurance to put you back in the same state of affair prior to the loss ?

 

Rather, it is a fundamental of insurance to pay in the event of an agreed loss, for an amount based on an agreed method of valuation.

 

If you have chosen to insure at market value instead of a "new for old" value, then you have accepted that once a car has been on the road for one day, its market value drops significantly. Implicitly, you would have agreed to bear the rest of the loss.

 

If you wanted to receive full new for old value, AIG's plan for example pays for a new vehicle of the same make and model if it is a total loss from an accident within 12 months.