Hdb new flat now expensive/cheap/ok

[bukitmerah]

But I don't even earn $3,000 leh.

That means I need to give HDB every single cent I earn for 20 years?!?!?

 

By the time I reach 55 years old semi retired then can spend my first dollar ?!?!?

 

1) Very smart of you to include interest into the REAL total costs. this is a sincere compliment. many people know but don't like to think about it even when i remind them, they still say eg."$280k"...

 

2) i also don't even earn $3k. however, consider yourself "lucky"??? that you still got a job. i got retrenched recently...how many people can "guarantee" they will continue to earn $3k till 55? Many people have to change job to taxi driver & security guard. Unless you got "iron rice bowl" in the civil service...

 

3) unlike our ministers, most of us don't get "pension" after 55. most of us anyway...

 

4) got "beautiful", "upgraded", "world class", "condo-style" living HDB flat. Pocket "no money go downstairs buy bread" ( copied from old cantonese song )...nice deal eh? "affordable"....hahahaha...lmfao!

[bukitmerah]

double post

Edited May 15, 2011 by bukitmerah
double post

[cougar]

Buying hdb flat and need to work your as$ off paying for it is an expensive condo style financial prison. Like the maids who needs to pay agency commission to come here to work, are we any different from maids??

[JackOHJack]

My friend next week collecting keys for Seng Kang flat. They balloted in 2008, 15th floor flat BTO for $210+k. Me balloted 2 years later than them, in May 2011, 14th floor flat in Jurong, but $286k, without counting $4k legal fees.

 

You say expensive or not?

 

But bloody hell, I still must count my blessings and appreciate what I have leh. Coz some of my old school friends balloted for 2 years and 8 or 10 tries still cannot get flat, see Pay and Pay MP also no use. So I still have to been thankful for being lucky at balloting for a very "affordable flat" according to our beloved MBT who is a talent who deserves his very acceptable salary and future pension.

 

congratz! i think now bto in "HOT" punggol is abt 360k for 4 room only.. i wonder if these scholars know how big is 93sqm for 4 room.

 

it's ridiculous to feel like striking lottery when you get a ballot to RENT a house for 99 years..

 

it's like meddling with people's lives right to the core.

 

1) Very smart of you to include interest into the REAL total costs. this is a sincere compliment. many people know but don't like to think about it even when i remind them, they still say eg."$280k"...

 

2) i also don't even earn $3k. however, consider yourself "lucky"??? that you still got a job. i got retrenched recently...how many people can "guarantee" they will continue to earn $3k till 55? Many people have to change job to taxi driver & security guard. Unless you got "iron rice bowl" in the civil service...

 

3) unlike our ministers, most of us don't get "pension" after 55. most of us anyway...

 

4) got "beautiful", "upgraded", "world class", "condo-style" living HDB flat. Pocket "no money go downstairs buy bread" ( copied from old cantonese song )...nice deal eh? "affordable"....hahahaha...lmfao!

 

that's the issue. it is affordable PROVIDED:

1) you continually upgrade urself (education/ skills/ business etc [toto?!])

2) you dun fall sick/ you are insured heavily/ adequately

3) both of the couple MUST work for a long time

 

it's not a choice, you MUST ensure you pass all 3 criterias.

 

there may be other factors, but im tired now..

[kzone]

My friend next week collecting keys for Seng Kang flat. They balloted in 2008, 15th floor flat BTO for $210+k. Me balloted 2 years later than them, in May 2011, 14th floor flat in Jurong, but $286k, without counting $4k legal fees.

 

You say expensive or not?

 

So how much in cash u pay monthly for the mortgage?

[Pplater]

congratz! i think now bto in "HOT" punggol is abt 360k for 4 room only.. i wonder if these scholars know how big is 93sqm for 4 room.

 

it's ridiculous to feel like striking lottery when you get a ballot to RENT a house for 99 years..

 

it's like meddling with people's lives right to the core.

 

 

But yet its the truth wor. In the States or Europe, people can't afford to buy. They rent. There are no public housing schemes, and hence the situation. I read in the Straits Times that in some China cities, it is even worse. People live like hamsters. I am thankful for 93sqm.

 

But yet we don't have it easy too, despite HDB these days. In the past, my parents buy flat in the early days, Tanjong Ghu flat cost $6k+ you know? My mother's pay as one of the first batch of teachers in Singapore's poineer era was i think $300+. In other words, 20 months wages can buy a flat. These days, a HDB flat is easily 100 times a school teacher or admin manager or army officer or scdf officer pay.

 

My parents time, they paid up half a semi-detach house (combine with my uncle) in 3 years when it cost 20k, for my grandma. These days, if 7 years u can pay up a HDB flat like my colleague by working very hard you can laugh already.

 

Such are the changing times. My parents and me are only a generation apart. My brother and me are only half a generation apart. My friends and I are the same generation. We only balloted 2 years apart. Yet our fate at acquiring property is so different.

 

I accept my fate. I can deal with it. I can take care of myself, my fiancee and our house. I can work harder and earn more. But what about the future generations then? Is the escalating housing prices sustainable at all? Where the hell is this trend leading too? What is Singapore becoming?

 

Will the government care?

Edited May 16, 2011 by Pplater

[cougar]

Will the government care?

 

Only when their votes are threatened, only once every 5 years, only if they are discredited. How civil minded. Those jokers who voted them dunno thinking about what? Haiz, I am tired too.

[Pplater]

So how much in cash u pay monthly for the mortgage?

 

Based on my calculation after sitting down with my other half, every month can expect to pay $1k plus for 30 years. Towards the end of course lesser, maybe under 1k. When principal sum less, interest less, so installment less loh. HDB interest is pro-rated monthly ma. Those got housing loan will know.

 

Unless hum tum cash payment at the start and clear quickly like my colleagues. If not every month pay 1k+, $500+ is interest. Chop guarantee affordable. MBT say one mah. I think ah, don't think so much lah. Just stick my spurs in my hide and be cheaper better and faster can liao. Think too much very painful.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Pplater

[DeusExMachina]

But I don't even earn $3,000 leh.

That means I need to give HDB every single cent I earn for 20 years?!?!?

 

By the time I reach 55 years old semi retired then can spend my first dollar ?!?!?

 

 

That's the way the PAP intended it to be.

 

You in debt forever. So you can't think of anything else but to keep afloat.

[JackOHJack]

But yet its the truth wor. In the States or Europe, people can't afford to buy. They rent. There are no public housing schemes, and hence the situation. I read in the Straits Times that in some China cities, it is even worse. People live like hamsters. I am thankful for 93sqm.

 

But yet we don't have it easy too, despite HDB these days. In the past, my parents buy flat in the early days, Tanjong Ghu flat cost $6k+ you know? My mother's pay as one of the first batch of teachers in Singapore's poineer era was i think $300+. In other words, 20 months wages can buy a flat. These days, a HDB flat is easily 100 times a school teacher or admin manager or army officer or scdf officer pay.

 

My parents time, they paid up half a semi-detach house (combine with my uncle) in 3 years when it cost 20k, for my grandma. These days, if 7 years u can pay up a HDB flat like my colleague by working very hard you can laugh already.

 

Such are the changing times. My parents and me are only a generation apart. My brother and me are only half a generation apart. My friends and I are the same generation. We only balloted 2 years apart. Yet our fate at acquiring property is so different.

 

I accept my fate. I can deal with it. I can take care of myself, my fiancee and our house. I can work harder and earn more. But what about the future generations then? Is the escalating housing prices sustainable at all? Where the hell is this trend leading too? What is Singapore becoming?

 

Will the government care?

 

at the current rate, seems like they are simply allowing more ppl to buy hdb (income ceiling = 10k). which i think will lead to more escalation in price. therefore they are solving Prob B (let more medium income household join in the fun), while others are complaining abt Prob A (lower income CANNOT afford).

 

i.e. when Prob B solved, they can proudly claim "hdb flats are AFFORDABLE" ... ... "to medium income group". Where got Prob A - Many ppl can afford WHAT?

 

anyw, u can check with ur parents when they bought 6k hdb. i assume it's before some smart ass approved cpf funds to be used for hdb house, which led to a spiral of escalating prices to MAX OUT CPF OA and then subsequently MAX OUT both couple's CPF OA.. check my claims against online sources of cpf changes/ hdb prices..

 

what they are doing now is further allow MAXING OUT of other sources of income, maybe by extending retirement age and therefore no of years banks can loan for.

 

Based on my calculation after sitting down with my other half, every month can expect to pay $1k plus for 30 years. Towards the end of course lesser, maybe under 1k. When principal sum less, interest less, so installment less loh. HDB interest is pro-rated monthly ma. Those got housing loan will know.

 

Unless hum tum cash payment at the start and clear quickly like my colleagues. If not every month pay 1k+, $500+ is interest. Chop guarantee affordable. MBT say one mah. I think ah, don't think so much lah. Just stick my spurs in my hide and be cheaper better and faster can liao. Think too much very painful.

 

if ur cash payments can generate say 5% investment profits (after deducting costs), it seems to make sense to use cash to invest. cash, afterall, is liquid. u pump into asset, cannot use in emergencies? just a quick tot..

Edited May 17, 2011 by JackOHJack

[kzone]

$1K per month is your total mortage payment. So as long as you & your partner earn about $2.3K/mth then no need to use cash for house. Where else in the world can u have such a thing?

 

Based on my calculation after sitting down with my other half, every month can expect to pay $1k plus for 30 years. Towards the end of course lesser, maybe under 1k. When principal sum less, interest less, so installment less loh. HDB interest is pro-rated monthly ma. Those got housing loan will know.

 

Unless hum tum cash payment at the start and clear quickly like my colleagues. If not every month pay 1k+, $500+ is interest. Chop guarantee affordable. MBT say one mah. I think ah, don't think so much lah. Just stick my spurs in my hide and be cheaper better and faster can liao. Think too much very painful.

[RageMyDream]

I accept my fate. I can deal with it. I can take care of myself, my fiancee and our house. I can work harder and earn more. But what about the future generations then? Is the escalating housing prices sustainable at all? Where the hell is this trend leading too? What is Singapore becoming?

 

Will the government care?

 

Haha. Majority of voters already have flats so won't complain abt the flat pricing. In fact, they are most happy to see their flat value appreciate yearly. Hence by winning this group votes are sufficient. The minority ones can wait

[RageMyDream]

$1K per month is your total mortage payment. So as long as you & your partner earn about $2.3K/mth then no need to use cash for house. Where else in the world can u have such a thing?

 

Err.. do not forget the CPFOA is your "retirement" fund. Every month empty means no extra when u "retire".

Plus, if any of u lose your job temporary and u have to top up cash if both CPFOA are not sufficient. Then u will feel stress.

If have children, further stress . Adult can dun eat but children must.

[kzone]

we as an individual have to decide if we want to use the CPFOA as retirement fund or housing fund. If want to use it as retirement, then use cash to pay mortgage loh.. just like most countries in the world...

 

Problem with most of us singaporean is that we are too used to the govt telling us wat to do & following their policy that we fail to see other options available... we are quite financial illiterate.

 

The fact is that HDB has provided us housing options that are cheaper than the private housing and new hdb flats are cheaper than the resale market. So if we dont earn enough to fork out $1000/mth per couple (2 working people for most couples), then frankly u need to work harder.

 

check out salary.sg to see where u stand in terms of annual income with the rest of the tax payers.. a 30K annual salary puts us at the lowest 12%. Both couple earning at this level will be able to fork out the $500/mthly each.

[RageMyDream]

Paying thru OA has more pros.

1. By cash feel more heart pain.

2. Cash is more liquidity, can use to buy other things, refurnish etc.

3. Drawing money from OA seems too long, beyond 65 by then.

 

Thus most ppl are paying thru OA if they have sufficient.

[kzone]

agree use cash will feel more heart pain. so if use all fm cpf, u want feel anything now mah... anyway, even if u dont buy house, u cant out the cpf. Then u have to plan ur retirement ah... dont depend on cpf.

 

I bought punggol flat sligtly over 5 yrs ago & it was already $260K back then. Kept on telling my friends to quickly buy but they said prices so high.. they kept saying that till today...

 

I would suggest to get the most expensive flat u can afford now. Overtime, your pay should increase and in 20-40 yrs, the value of your home would increase more than the inflation rate or in the cpf interest rate. The quantum in price difference would only be more in the future so you will end up with more cash when u eventually retire and downgrade fm lets say a 5 rm to 3rm flat.

 

If possible, the objective is try to beat the system & try to earn fm public housing. Eg. we hear many cases wehere ppl slowly upgrade to eventually get condo and finally downgrade back to hdb & have a million dollars in the bank. U also can sell & buy hdb to have cash in hand for investmets in stocks, metals etc while continuing to pay mortgage via cpf.

[JackOHJack]

But yet its the truth wor. In the States or Europe, people can't afford to buy. They rent. There are no public housing schemes, and hence the situation. I read in the Straits Times that in some China cities, it is even worse. People live like hamsters. I am thankful for 93sqm.

 

oh dear, just re-read this and realised a misunderstanding in my earlier comment. wat i mean was it's ridiculous for us to feel like strike toto when we have the means to buy it in the first place.. erm.. imagine coe for ur bike/ car have to ballot..

 

$1K per month is your total mortage payment. So as long as you & your partner earn about $2.3K/mth then no need to use cash for house. Where else in the world can u have such a thing?

 

i think in "elsewhere of the world", u can use cash to pay for it. and when u liquidate it, u DO NOT have to pay back interest rolled over the years to cpf, ur cash do not go back to cpf. all go into ur pocket. it's CONFIRM ur money, not ambiguous, half here, half there.

 

Err.. do not forget the CPFOA is your "retirement" fund. Every month empty means no extra when u "retire".

Plus, if any of u lose your job temporary and u have to top up cash if both CPFOA are not sufficient. Then u will feel stress.

If have children, further stress . Adult can dun eat but children must.

 

exactly.

 

agree use cash will feel more heart pain. so if use all fm cpf, u want feel anything now mah... anyway, even if u dont buy house, u cant out the cpf. Then u have to plan ur retirement ah... dont depend on cpf.

 

I bought punggol flat sligtly over 5 yrs ago & it was already $260K back then. Kept on telling my friends to quickly buy but they said prices so high.. they kept saying that till today...

 

I would suggest to get the most expensive flat u can afford now. Overtime, your pay should increase and in 20-40 yrs, the value of your home would increase more than the inflation rate or in the cpf interest rate. The quantum in price difference would only be more in the future so you will end up with more cash when u eventually retire and downgrade fm lets say a 5 rm to 3rm flat.

 

If possible, the objective is try to beat the system & try to earn fm public housing. Eg. we hear many cases wehere ppl slowly upgrade to eventually get condo and finally downgrade back to hdb & have a million dollars in the bank. U also can sell & buy hdb to have cash in hand for investmets in stocks, metals etc while continuing to pay mortgage via cpf.

 

so in the first place, do not need to blow smoke and say cpf is for retirement - it is not. CPF Medisave, Medishield, and HDB account.

 

what u are saying does not account for the sacrifices made, unknowingly by most.

 

in the past, u can count on cpf for retirement. if you further saved up personally (optional), u have ONE/ TWO retirement plans.

 

now, you cannot count on cpf on retirement, so you must ensure you save up personally (kinda mandatory), u at most have ONE retirement plan.

 

the sacrifices one makes for the OTHER retirement plan directly affects the well-being of the ppl ard him/ her currently.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it is still affordable, but it is not as affordable. i think this is the crux. in the past, you buy 80k, you sell 200k, you earn 120k. now u buy 320k, you sell 360k, you earn 40k. i.e. in the past, you eat big share, undergahmen eat big share. now, undergahmen eat big share, you eat small share, if any.

 

 

 

your pay should, but not necessarily MUST increase. the value of your home should, but not necessarily MUST increase more than inflation rate or cpf interest rate. there is a limit to everything, including the salaries of majority of singaporeans (wage council - global competitiveness etc). i.e. if salary dun increase, price of hdb WILL NOT increase, you MAY lose value. that's why undergahmen so anxious promise will increase pay across the board "soon", because they know it's the only way out, for now, temporarily. again, there is a limit so as to stay competitive - what then?

[JackOHJack]

I would suggest to get the most expensive flat u can afford now.

 

i agree with this. buy the most expensive flat you can afford now.

 

 

 

but keep in mind the value of the property you get. ask yourself if this is a resale flat, will you buy it at the current resale price (ard the property) anyway? if the ans is yes, prob due to certain advantages, and if u r pretty sure the advantages will remain as is, den you shd buy the most expensive you can afford. the idea is to buy a flat that is attractive to OTHER resale flat buyers in 5-10 years time.

 

for instance, if you buy a property that is 360k in punggol, looking at a manmade longgang, with a million flats blocking your views, and far from lrt/ mrt and amenities, den it's a potential trap.. look up my point on woodlanders/ sembawangers never getting our area upgraded into the "hot town" as promised. perhaps hot due to overcrowding at causeway point, yes.

 

 

 

else, the other issue is to ask yourself if you dun mind paying the price EVEN IF the value halves in future, for the entire loan period. if the ans is yes, den almost certainly there are some advantages as well which will most likely negate such a possibility anyw.. because even den, you wun mind living in (and paying for) your dream home.

[Pplater]

$1K per month is your total mortage payment. So as long as you & your partner earn about $2.3K/mth then no need to use cash for house. Where else in the world can u have such a thing?

 

The problem is, not everyone has plans to slog for 30 years to service a housing loan. Not everyone has the same plans. For this reason, my partner and I will slog harder to clear our loan earlier. But you are quite right that no where else in the world can have average couple owning a flat from cpf.

[BlackDawn]

i agree with this. buy the most expensive flat you can afford now.

I disagree. No doubt that a flat can be a fastrack to building asset wealth (based on current trends), BUT you should be buying a flat that has the MOST POTENTIAL VALUE instead of the most expensive you can afford.

 

look up my point on woodlanders/ sembawangers never getting our area upgraded into the "hot town" as promised. perhaps hot due to overcrowding at causeway point, yes.

I live in Sembawang and I actually like that it is less crowded and not a 'hot' town. Ultimately, everyone needs a home and not an investment property. If every flat/house you look for has value appreciation as the main concern, then whence does the 'home sweet home" come from?

Edited May 17, 2011 by BlackDawn

[BlackDawn]

The final question is, do you want an affordable home? Or do you want a high potential investment property?

If you want the former, current HDB direction is bad for you. If you want the latter, then you have justified MBT's policies.

[DeusExMachina]

 

buy the most expensive flat you can afford now.

 

 

 

And rack up more in interest?

You should be buying a flat only as large as you need.

[pyro13]

Hdb flats are expensive. But wat cn we do?

 

Go on a strike?

[Jehuty]

Buy land in Msia, make 2 storey mansion. Buy HDB more convenient but think about it, you're paying for TPL's Kate Spades.

[Ken_6565]

Prices for HDB flats keep going up.. seems like life getting tougher in this red dot..