Meeting with LTA - Customization and Modification

[dlareg]

Hi all,

 

I must first state that I am a newbie modifier (foot pegs/handler bars but nothing radical) and am interested in taking customization and modification to another level for myself.

 

I believe that clear open dialogue with the authorities would be a step forward for the biker community and clear guidelines from LTA on modifications/customization would give rise to better movement in this regard.

 

On my own accord, I wrote to LTA recently expressing interests in carrying out motorcycle modifications and customizations. A copy of my letter to LTA of 6 December 2006 is attached fo anyone who is interested to read. The views which I expressed in my letter to them are purely my own and do not reflect the views of any organisation, the biker community or this forum.

 

The LTA replied to me on 19 December 2006 suggesting to arrange a meeting and dialogue with me to better understand the queries on customization and modifications. A copy of their reply is also attached.

 

I believe there are many interested and serious hobbyist/customizers/modders in this forum. This is a good opportunity for you to raise your general and specific queries to the LTA and make in-roads in a developing movement.

 

If you are interested in attending this meeting/dialogue with the LTA, please write or pm me. Or, write to me with your queries for the LTA.

 

Depending on the response and the schedules of those interested, I will make the necessary arrangements with the LTA. I would target the meeting with LTA for late January or early February 2007. I am also proposing a meet-up with all those interested to attend the meeting to formulate an agenda and any general queries which I may send to LTA prior the meeting to avoid taking anyone by surprise.

 

Look forward to hear from you.

[FB666Y]

I am interested - let me know.

 

Some items for the agenda -

 

1) Building a bike from the ground up may be somewhat difficult, and there will be occassions where different bike items may be mated, for example using RVF front forks on an NSR250. What, if any, are the guidelines for these occassions?

 

2) Roadworthiness? What are the tests, and paperwork involved in getting the bike recognised and roadworthy?

 

3) What international standards do we have to take into consideration or adhere to, for example Euro emissions specs for the exhaust?

 

Thats off the top of my head.

[xxes123]

i been there 2 yrs ago ..

 

the Malay senior vehicle engineer very frdly and quite helpful, things tat he LL cant approved , he will tell u the loopholes and teach u how to go ard the problem but avoid asking qns to the chinese engineer if u hope to approve anything , tat guy is every thing also say cannot

 

FB666Y : suspension, brakes, air intake etc are open class ..

[boofeng]

Um, just some quick thoughts off the top of my head:

 

Vehicles when being used on roads have big potential for damage to life and property. As such, there is a lot of "responsibility" in making and using vehicles. This responsibility falls on various parties, like end-users (drivers, riders), manufacturers, road design/building/maintenance people, law enforcers and law makers, etc.

 

If LTA decides to start approving non-manufacturer approved modifications, then they will end up taking responsibility for it, if something (ever) happens (rather than the manufacturer). I know the chances are low, and most of us do very "reasonable" and "sensible" mods, but once LTA gives the go-ahead to approve modifications, they will have to entertain anyone who wishes to get their mod approved, right?

 

Will they have the resources if they are swamped with applications? They will need "engineers" who must be knowledgeable enough to say "yes" or "no" to the modifications. Once mods are endorsed, if mishaps occur due to the mods, LTA might be seen as "at fault" and liable.

 

Sorry to be pessimistic, but I don't really see an easy solution from here. Hope this helps in your dialogue session.

 

 

BTW, from what I read on overseas forums, it's not very difficult in many states in the US to get their non-road-legal dirtbikes registered. They just need to add aftermarket speedo, tacho, lights, road-legal tyres, pass emissions, etc and they're good to go. Interesting isn't it, in the land of liability and lawsuits? Maybe you could find out more about how they arrange it such that the state doesn't seem to be liable when those bikes they approve for registration malfunction and cause damage?

[Tricker]

Did the officer said is a 1 to 1 meeting or hes comfortable for a group meeting?

All the information is here, its quite straight forward,modifications are allow,modifications allowed with LTA approval,modifications not allowed. Hope this help

 

From what i know change a exhaust is possible, only those street legal exhaust from which is approved by some oversea testing bodies is approved in Singapore. As its stated on the website that even if change of colour of motor-cycles or cars got to update, but i dun think people will be bother to do that.

 

Basically they can only get you on the exterior things that you mod, which the most obvious is the exhaust. Other things like which they already got no objections, just let it be. They can't really tell you have put another bike susension to another different bike.

[dlareg]

Dear All,

 

Thank you for all the comments thus far.

 

I appreciate Boofeng's comments, which touches on the issue of a builder's / manufacturer's defect and the risk to life, limb and property. It is a matter that must be considered for any discussion with LTA.

 

What I believe Boofeng may have left unsaid is that since life and property are at risk, LTA may have some reservations about any proposed modifications/buildings by hobbyist builders/modifiers, and as a matter of public policy, would err on the side of caution as regards giving a blanket approval for any modifications or creating a precedent by allowing certain modifications.

 

The issue of manufacturer's defect and safety of their product is a common theme whether you are a mainstream manufacturer of common brand motorcycles or a hobbyist builder/modder. The difference is of course quality control, which mainstream manufacturers are able to assure the authorities with some confidence - even then, the recall of defective vehicles are not an unusual occurrence.

 

As a regulatory body, the LTA would necessarily be concerned with safety of life and risk to property. It is precisely in these aspects, amonst others, that I am seeking some guidance from LTA in terms of setting out their policy considerations, safety requirements and engineering standards, if any. Basically, for the framwork within which any person who intends to be a modders/builders may work within.

 

There are unfortunately no easy solutions. But the possible increase of the resources of a regulatory body cannot be justification for restricting the growth or development of a field or area which may have socio-economic worth in industry and commerce, as well as for the general populance. If this was the case, Singapore will never have entrepreneuers who are able to set up companies like Proton or Perodua where fledgling manufacturers set up challenge to the mainstream manufacturers.

 

As a follow on to Boonfeng's comments and to cover all angles prior to any discussions with the LTA, we would also need to deal with the possible concerns of the mainstream manufacturers' over modifications to their stock bikes over which the manufacturers have little or no control.

 

Bros/Sis who have indicated their interests in attending:-

1. Madman

2. Ulysses_sc

3. FB666Y

 

Whilst LTA has indicated a meeting with me. I will inform them that their suggestion has generated positive response from the community and set up a "team" meeting with them. I believe a team of 3 - 6 would be sufficient representation for the initial dialogue.

[terri_one]

Hi, thanks for arranging the meeting. I am keen to join. I am riding motard. I will be in Singapore during this time (1 to 8-Jan and 22 to 31-Jan). If you can arrange during this time, i am very keen to join. Once again, thanks for leading this meeting.

 

1. Madman

2. Ulysses_sc

3. FB666Y

4. Terri_one

[-sOnG-]

Moving this to Rally Point ..

 

Hope we get more response regarding to legal mods on our bikes !

[WildCard]

Just to chip in.

I think there are some valid points those attending can raise concerning using aftermarket parts on items never on the bike in the first place.

Example, steering dampers....

 

Another good one would be motard rims.

[william_liu]

Maybe can check with them why electric horns are not included.....

[C.S]

and

from the TP talk i attended last time, thanks to Team MR LAU......

i would also hope to clarify some doubts, with regards to : ROV/LTA catch what, what diff from TP, and what over-lapping with TP's area of in-charge

[168kmh]

ask them to issue more COEs for bikes. read from some where that bikes COEs were transfter to cars so as to make COEs for cars cheaper.

 

I think its time for them to make the change again, Cars COEs came very low but Bikes COEs is very high.

[tt6389]

i was stopped at a routine road block at night with my LEDs lights deliberately switched on, few months back. So I guess LEDs are now permissible as long it does't blink or flickers distractingly to other motorist.

 

[ArsenalBoi]

your road block is lta roadblock or those normal catch drink drivers kind?

[dlareg]

Hi All,

 

Just a few lines from me...

 

My apologies for the lack of any update on the topic and to the bros who are interested in the meet up. I have been a little held up at work and family matters and it has been difficult to focus on "extra-curricular" activities.

 

I will get on it as fast as I can with the LTA and let everyone know.

 

Brgds.

[madman]

Originally posted by dlareg@January 15, 2007 03:46 pm

Hi All,

 

Just a few lines from me...

 

My apologies for the lack of any update on the topic and to the bros who are interested in the meet up. I have been a little held up at work and family matters and it has been difficult to focus on "extra-curricular" activities.

 

I will get on it as fast as I can with the LTA and let everyone know.

 

Brgds.

it's fine, start of year, usually busier than other times...same for me.

[moccajava]

Hi yes, would love to know of hearsay rumours of aftermarket parts not originally supplied (steering dampers) that may be deemed by them as illegal.

 

Thanks.

[BuZZBeaM]

how abt customize number plates? i dont see any safety issue on this

[xxes123]

For aftermarket parts, if its from a reputable Eurpean/ US/Japan brand , usually they would have already send the parts for TUV/JASCO certification for eg Galfer discs, Arrow exhuast, Gienelli exhuast etc (TUV approved for street use) . So if it comes with this TUV cert or is TUV approved for ur particular model, LTA usually will not bother with you. With these TUV certs , u can go to LTA for written approval if u feeling very free and nothing to do.

 

Furthermore TP/ROV more concern with those "made-in-thailand" performance parts. And normally wouldnt disturb u if ur parts are from reputable brands.

 

Kena TP roadblock before , he see my parts ..TP jus wave me to pass w/o stopping me for further checks ....

[Guest nE0]

Well, i've been fined for using aftermarket but DOT approved headlights.

 

Wrote in to appeal to no avail.....

[okl]

there's one thing i wanna ask too... whats so illegal about motorcycle rear license plates having only one line?

 

e.g. legal rear license plates looks like this (2 lines)

 

FA

1234Z

 

illegal ones look like this (1 line):

 

FA1234Z

[Ones_Co]

Originally posted by okl@January 20, 2007 10:16 am

there's one thing i wanna ask too... whats so illegal about motorcycle rear license plates having only one line?

 

e.g. legal rear license plates looks like this (2 lines)

 

FA

1234Z

 

illegal ones look like this (1 line):

 

FA1234Z

One line should be legal but the size and spacing should meeting stated size on the one motoring web site...

[MikeS4M]

Originally posted by tt6389@January 06, 2007 02:06 am

i was stopped at a routine road block at night with my LEDs lights deliberately switched on, few months back. So I guess LEDs are now permissible as long it does't blink or flickers distractingly to other motorist.

 

Im being stopped by a Tiger Squad with my both front LED light (blue) on LED below undertray ON, Engine LED on..all they bother is about my Exhaust system..so i think LED should not be problem unless its super bright and distracting...

[FOXY]

bike without air box is it ok ?

[revenge]

i think should be ok l0r.... car without wipers also can mah