Riders and safety

[xiaowang]

Hi there

 

I dont think what this thread means. It is to inform the biker that we should take care of our safety. Wearing jackets, covered shoes, FF and gloves can protect us when we get into minor accidents.

 

The suggestion of the law to enforce is a bit riduclous, I do agree. However the riders locally are insufficently protected for minor accidents. When accidents happen, we are always at the losing end, no matter what, unless the prototype airbag jacket has been perfected and we can be safe for ever.

 

Be safe not sorry. We shpould always take care of our own safety.

[BikerLover]

Originally posted by rhema83@Apr 22 2005, 04:27 AM

I remember someone posting a link to an Australian TV ad that talks about safety of bikers. In the ad, the driver is put onto the bike and the rider is put into the car to have a reverse perspective. The message was "mutual consideration leads to safer roads".

 

We need something like that!

That's a nice idea for an ad for road traffic for singapore.. It actually really needs mutual understandings and considerations..

[BikerLover]

Taking care of our personal safety and well being when riding bike is needed and it's very important.

 

But having a law passed down for compulsory wearing of safety gear is stupid.

 

Does that means that having proper protective gears the rider will not get hurt or injured?? Even if it means minimising the injury, breaking one leg instead of two is it also minimising?? Having so much, so tight protection covering your body will it affect your riding capability under the hot sorching sun of singapore, where traffic is heavy, traffic lights are plentyful and distances are short?? Think, think again...

 

I have a friend died wearing a $400 full face helmet(a popular brand), which cracked open.

 

So it comes down to the attitude of the rider! It all depends on you, the rider. You're the one controlling the machine. Make your presence felt on the road. Don't be shy to horn, to notify other's of your presence. Don't be shy to command and control the entire single lane of the road. But always be courteous, they(cars) are afterall having a bigger, more powerful engine than our bikes. Give way when necessary but never never be intimated!!!

[Arcfire]

Compulsory wearing of proper gear may be abit too much, but being without proper gear will be a risk people haf to take themselves, sometimeswith their lives.

 

Wearing a full set of proper gear does not mean you are invincible, i agree.But riding with just an open face helmet, t-shirt n shorts ultimately gives you less chance of walking out of an accident alive.

And it does not mean that having full gear on will be hot. Its just an excuse to not wear it. There are plenty of protective gear on the market that offer protection and yet don't suffocate you.

 

Making your presence felt is an important thing. Most importantly we should be inculcating mutual respect for all road users which is utterly lacking at the moment. Sh*t happens sometimes, whether its that blur lady behind the wheels of the darn taxi driver picking up a passenger trying to run you off the road. When that happens I'm sure you'll be glad that you were wearing some form of protection.

[Tourer]

Originally posted by konsandy@Aug 14 2005, 11:12 PM

i think ppl who always think motorcylist are always the fault are idiots.. btw will have law to regulate attire .. it is so stupid this is the hot tropics not ice land .. u mean must wear full gear, bioots, full face helmet , gloves??? again never think of the poorer rider who can;t afford these...

Motorcycle safety gears should be an essential part of the cost when considering to own a motorcycle. If you do not qualify financially for both safety equipments and the motorcycle itself, then it would be best that you do not get a motorcycle at all. The equation is the same when buying a car, you are paying alot more money for the safety equipment and sheltered comfort as well.

 

Like what the rest mentioned, having a top notch safety gear might not save your life at the end of the day, but you will be glad that you have them when you need it. It is not a bullet proof gadget, just like sitting behind your 200k BMW, but it definitely reduces the injury and death proneness.

[boofeng]

i know this is old stuff, but the recent dialogue session with the TP made me think perhaps some of the suggestions here are still relevant. the "biker's perspective" is very powerful, i think, and is something we haven't seen on road safety adverts yet, AFAIK.

 

i'll try to get the people on the TP side who're responsible for doing the road safety adverts to take a look at this.

 

i'm not sure if they'll share our perspective on this though, as at the dialogue session, the TP's opinion, based on the statistics and case information, etc that they have (which they showed us as well), show that the majority of fatal accidents are still self-induced, rather than caused by others. i gathered, implicitly, that that is what they have identified as the "problem", and that their "aim" will be to tackle that (maybe because results would be more tangible --- reduced fatalities vs reduced seriousness of casualties...?)

 

i did not completely agree with this identification of the "main problem", i.e. i'm not sure all these fatalities are absolutely self-caused, i don't think focusing on fatalities alone is a good idea (there were no stats on casualties, serious vs light injuries, presented etc), etc etc. but without further research to back up our "intuitive/anecdotal knowledge", we can't argue the case that non-fatal, non-self-induced, motorcycle accidents are worth their very limited budget/effort (a very small department, and all their funding is from sponsorships, they receive nothing from our govt!!).

 

 

Originally posted by mechwira+Apr 21 2005, 10:18 AM-->

QUOTE (mechwira @ Apr 21 2005, 10:18 AM)

personally i prefer TP to launch a campaign on riding safety from the non-rider side of things.   what i mean is, i'm sure we all know, everytime got campaign about road safety and whenever the advert is about bikes, what do we see? on tv we will see the reckless rider weaving in and out of traffic like macam motogp, then we hear a crash and then the rider on the floor. yes? or on the bus we the rider wearing white long sleeve shirt with fluorescent vest and 1980's helmet.   all familiar?   thats the problem, or at least a large contributing factor of our problem. all these adverts serve to show that riding is dangerous because the rider is dangerous. it permeates into the drivers' minds until they actually believe that we are the sole problem.   remember the 'shock' advert a few years ago, the pedestrian about to cross suddenly the car slam into him? i want those kind, made for us.   i want to see advert of how the driver tailgate the bike, then when another car in front of the bike jam brake, the bike oso jam brake but the car behind tailgate so end up slam him into the car in front. or the biker skid, the car tailgating so run him over.   i want to see advert of how driver shove biker out of the lane, and how slight graze causes bike to topple.   launch this kind of campaign; tackle it from the non-rider side. for as long as the adverts only show the reckless rider, drivers will continue to sit smugly in their cars, bully us and then point their fingers at the biker. never will they point at themselves, so somebody has to.[/b]

[C.S]

i mean

before we even hope for the implementation of riding gear regulations( if we ALL really feel so much about it).......... there is still this mindset of ppl (which i think need some restructuring) , when they see smaller-bike riders with full face,

and they go ---> siao ah, even i nvr wear, why tt 1 so yayapapayaa

instead of thinking ---> aiyo, even small bikes rider think of safety, why i myself ride big ones cannot think same way

 

and ya, i ride a wave, and i am beginning to wear fullface (paiseh, still not acustomed yet), and i wear kiasu gloves also

 

 

and even small-bike riders

some think -->so kaisu/kiasee/extreme for wat..........

instead of --->maybe i should also learn

 

perhaps, the TP stats should appear......... MOST BIKES ACCIDENTS OCCUR FOR 2B BIKES

[Arcfire]

Yes, the mentality of riders have to change. But tat applies to drivers as well. Like mentioned, if the campaigns keep having their focus on reckless riders then its as gd as wasting taxpayers' money because we are already holding on to the short end of the stick.

If the drivers' mentality do not change then we will always be the ones blamed. Mutual respect. Thats what we need. But alas, with such elitist mentalities(See: elitist blog) its hardly going to be easy.

[Tourer]

Maybe it's the riders ourselves that we need to educate before going on to educate others. Not that I'm siding the drivers but how often really is an accident driver-induced? They probably provoke, but what leads to the aftermath is most often the riders themselves.

 

At least I know I curse and swear drivers who drive badly and swerve into my lane, but keeping level headed really makes me back off than trying to oust them out of the "who's the boss" lead.

 

Singapore might be a damn stupid place to wear full face and armoured jacket to ride a wave. But it's just one's perception to begin with. I wear a full face and full length carbon fibre knuckled leather gloves regardless of the bike I ride. Though an armoured jacket is really a plus, but I admit it really is a chore at times to just walk around with it.

[Arcfire]

But wouldn't that give drivers the idea that they have the right to oust any rider they please out from the lane? I know that going against a vehicle much larger than you are is plain stupidity but what other recourse is there to change this midset of drivers?

 

Already the mentality or drivers is wrong and that caused riders to retaliate more aggressively to such minor incidents. Its a chicken and egg thing to say who started it 1st but what is most important is to educated mutual respect for all road users, not just either side.

 

Yes, its a hassle to carry an armoured jacket ard especially when you go shopping in orchard road..... tats y now i ride a maxi-scooter... more space...hehe

[Tourer]

Actually what you mentioned was what I really stood by. But your agitation and retaliation will only cause more rebuttal from drivers.

 

I really am just another rider on the road, wrote this article some time back to express my exact sentiments with you. http://45j.blogspot.com/2006/03/our-road-education.html

 

But there are just so many boorish drivers out there. My dad just almost hit a sleepy driver who swerved INTO him, ended up getting a good dressing down from both of us. In the middle of the road, spent like a good 15 mins with him, oblivious from the piled up traffic behind. LoL.

[Tourer]

Looks like I have to sell off my bike and get a tourer class... Just to accomodate my safety-streak... Haha...

[Arcfire]

That article was great. Too bad our local mentalities are screwed up. Tats y we need drivers to really understand how it feels to be on a motorbike.

 

 

But that aside, you shouldn't get a tourer class.... get a land rover from saf. Indestructible. Any vehicle you swerve into will give way cos the only repairs you'll have to do is apply a fresh coat of dulux green paint while the other party will probably have to scrap their car. LOL

[Tourer]

Originally posted by Arcfire@Nov 9 2006, 06:01 PM

That article was great. Too bad our local mentalities are screwed up. Tats y we need drivers to really understand how it feels to be on a motorbike.

 

 

But that aside, you shouldn't get a tourer class.... get a land rover from saf. Indestructible. Any vehicle you swerve into will give way cos the only repairs you'll have to do is apply a fresh coat of dulux green paint while the other party will probably have to scrap their car. LOL

LOL! Land rover rocks!!!!! Good one.

[BikerLover]

Originally posted by Arcfire@Nov 7 2006, 05:05 PM

But wouldn't that give drivers the idea that they have the right to oust any rider they please out from the lane? I know that going against a vehicle much larger than you are is plain stupidity but what other recourse is there to change this midset of drivers?

 

Already the mentality or drivers is wrong and that caused riders to retaliate more aggressively to such minor incidents. Its a chicken and egg thing to say who started it 1st but what is most important is to educated mutual respect for all road users, not just either side.

 

Yes, its a hassle to carry an armoured jacket ard especially when you go shopping in orchard road..... tats y now i ride a maxi-scooter... more space...hehe

As i mentioned before that wearing protective gears are important but they must be practical too.

 

As you mentioned that it is a hassle if you go shopping or anywhere else, which is very very true!

 

I have friends who store their expensive protective gears inside their motorcycle boxes, only to have the box forced open and the gears stolen, after they came back from their activities... Yes, you can say that the location of parking is also very important. Just like defensive riding, rider's must also practice defensive parking! But ultimately you (riders) will never know when such things are gonna strike at you..

 

We (singaporean riders) cannot compare to people (riders) from other countries, like those that we see on motorbike magazines and movies. We are constantly under hot sun and wet rain. Our travelling distance are relatively short if only travelling within singapore itself. There's tons of traffic everywhere, and you have to make a stop very often due to traffic lights everywhere.

 

So the ultimate question -- is this practical? I mean with all the gears, helmets and stuffs like that? Does that means we only ride bikes that provides huge storage space for our gears? I agree one thing that it's also up to indiviual rider's mindset. I personnally thinks it's cool to wear onto your protective gears and go window shopping around. Do you??

 

So i personnally believe such law should never be passed down. But it's up to the rider's indiviual choice, because every rider has their own riding needs... Some likes touring and travelling long distances, some only takes their bike for a spin around the neighbourhood and others just keep polishing their bikes and maintaining it in mint condition.. haha

[Tourer]

Very insightful!

 

Yeap, I personally think it's quite cool to walk around in the armoured jacket also. But at times it's too hot and bulky for cramped and crowded places.

[xb84]

ya. make sure u go to places with air con.

[k0kster]

 

i recently heard from my friend that TP has came up with a new regulation. any accidents involving bikes, the other party will automatically be in the wrong. same as vehicles ramming pedestrians. is it true??

[Enotsol]

Originally posted by k0kster@Nov 16 2006, 01:15 PM

 

i recently heard from my friend that TP has came up with a new regulation. any accidents involving bikes, the other party will automatically be in the wrong. same as vehicles ramming pedestrians. is it true??

This question belongs to the Legality Section. But just to let you know, please tell your friend to stop spreading untrue rumours...

[ulysses_sc]

Originally posted by BikerLover@Nov 12 2006, 12:02 PM

As i mentioned before that wearing protective gears are important but they must be practical too.

 

As you mentioned that it is a hassle if you go shopping or anywhere else, which is very very true!

 

I have friends who store their expensive protective gears inside their motorcycle boxes, only to have the box forced open and the gears stolen, after they came back from their activities... Yes, you can say that the location of parking is also very important. Just like defensive riding, rider's must also practice defensive parking! But ultimately you (riders) will never know when such things are gonna strike at you..

 

We (singaporean riders) cannot compare to people (riders) from other countries, like those that we see on motorbike magazines and movies. We are constantly under hot sun and wet rain. Our travelling distance are relatively short if only travelling within singapore itself. There's tons of traffic everywhere, and you have to make a stop very often due to traffic lights everywhere.

 

So the ultimate question -- is this practical? I mean with all the gears, helmets and stuffs like that? Does that means we only ride bikes that provides huge storage space for our gears? I agree one thing that it's also up to indiviual rider's mindset. I personnally thinks it's cool to wear onto your protective gears and go window shopping around. Do you??

 

So i personnally believe such law should never be passed down. But it's up to the rider's indiviual choice, because every rider has their own riding needs... Some likes touring and travelling long distances, some only takes their bike for a spin around the neighbourhood and others just keep polishing their bikes and maintaining it in mint condition.. haha

Agree that wearing of protective clothings should never be legislated. You are opening a can of worms here.

 

Imagine for an instance, that the law now says you need to wear jacket, gloves, riding pants, riding boots, in addition to helmet, everytime you saddle a bike. Can you imagine the tremendous inconvenience caused to people riding bike to work? Does it mean I will now need to lug my office wear (including shoes) on my bike, in addition to briefcase/laptop/what have you?

 

Then you will have the situation of which type of riding gear is to be "approved" for road use (something like PSB sticker for helmets). Will we end up with only full leather suits with CE approved hard armour can be used? And only GP style armoured boots can be worn, and full length carbon knuckle leather gloves are allowed?

 

But the idea of your friendly ice-cream man wearing full gear selling ice-cream sure sounds amusing.

[Arcfire]

Originally posted by BikerLover@Nov 12 2006, 12:02 PM

As i mentioned before that wearing protective gears are important but they must be practical too.

 

As you mentioned that it is a hassle if you go shopping or anywhere else, which is very very true!

 

I have friends who store their expensive protective gears inside their motorcycle boxes, only to have the box forced open and the gears stolen, after they came back from their activities... Yes, you can say that the location of parking is also very important. Just like defensive riding, rider's must also practice defensive parking! But ultimately you (riders) will never know when such things are gonna strike at you..

 

We (singaporean riders) cannot compare to people (riders) from other countries, like those that we see on motorbike magazines and movies. We are constantly under hot sun and wet rain. Our travelling distance are relatively short if only travelling within singapore itself. There's tons of traffic everywhere, and you have to make a stop very often due to traffic lights everywhere.

 

So the ultimate question -- is this practical? I mean with all the gears, helmets and stuffs like that? Does that means we only ride bikes that provides huge storage space for our gears? I agree one thing that it's also up to indiviual rider's mindset. I personnally thinks it's cool to wear onto your protective gears and go window shopping around. Do you??

 

So i personnally believe such law should never be passed down. But it's up to the rider's indiviual choice, because every rider has their own riding needs... Some likes touring and travelling long distances, some only takes their bike for a spin around the neighbourhood and others just keep polishing their bikes and maintaining it in mint condition.. haha

Yes i agree that there should never be laws on wearing protective gear. Its up to the individual rider to think for himself.

Yeah and there's been plenty of cases where people leave their gear n helmets in the bike only to find them stolen later on. The only way we can prevent that is to use additional items to secure them to the bike. For example an added chain to lock your ff helmets even if they are placed in a box/underseat. i've seen some really gd protective equipment in ebay but they of course cost a bomb.

We should also be using alarms to deter thefts.

 

Any with regards to wearing armoured jackets to shopping.... i've done that plenty of times.... If you happened to see a dude wearing a grey mesh jacket walking ard orchard road with a big helmet bag a few months back that would have been me. hahaha.

 

Jacket i can still stand.... Its the helmet that i cannot tolerate. walking in crowded places the helmet tends to knock into things you don't want to knock into. And people using all sorts of items to knock my helmet.... not something i like either.

 

So its up to the individual to decide on how much protection he/she requires and how much they value their life on the road. Not saying that those not wearing gear don't value their life.... Like all things in life, we all need to find a balance between practicality and safety.

[swirlacer]

Originally posted by boofeng@Nov 6 2006, 12:37 AM

i know this is old stuff, but the recent dialogue session with the TP made me think perhaps some of the suggestions here are still relevant. the "biker's perspective" is very powerful, i think, and is something we haven't seen on road safety adverts yet, AFAIK.

 

i'll try to get the people on the TP side who're responsible for doing the road safety adverts to take a look at this.

 

i'm not sure if they'll share our perspective on this though, as at the dialogue session, the TP's opinion, based on the statistics and case information, etc that they have (which they showed us as well), show that the majority of fatal accidents are still self-induced, rather than caused by others. i gathered, implicitly, that that is what they have identified as the "problem", and that their "aim" will be to tackle that (maybe because results would be more tangible --- reduced fatalities vs reduced seriousness of casualties...?)

 

i did not completely agree with this identification of the "main problem", i.e. i'm not sure all these fatalities are absolutely self-caused, i don't think focusing on fatalities alone is a good idea (there were no stats on casualties, serious vs light injuries, presented etc), etc etc. but without further research to back up our "intuitive/anecdotal knowledge", we can't argue the case that non-fatal, non-self-induced, motorcycle accidents are worth their very limited budget/effort (a very small department, and all their funding is from sponsorships, they receive nothing from our govt!!).

 

 

 

 

 

hey boofeng, maybe the adverts can be done like this?? i saw this on youtube.

 

 

i think this helps?? doesnt really cost much to produce except a old car, crap bike to crash on and a stunt rider.

 

helps drivers to be more aware of bikes.

[Tourer]

This was the advertisement I was talking about in my blog. Anyway the crashing action was computer graphics... Haha..

[swirlacer]

haha...okie..u got a blog??didnt noe tt..aniwae there's loads more of the uk safety campaign. i think the adverts are great. here's a couple more.

 

sorrie for being off topic here.

 

--->drink driving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCjH1bHO61c --->for drivers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZRqGFg_wGQ -->this one esp for bike.

-->has an extra clip with it.

[gorgonitz82]

wah ... if compulsory then super lecheh .... imagine u wear full gear to ride a few metres away to get ur breakfast ..... n sportsbike no where to put gear ... n pple from other country will laugh coz we need legislation to make pple safe .... anyway... izzit true 2b has the highest accident rate? seems like coz my fren buang or watever is on 2b bikes .... when they get cl 2 ... the bike is more exx... so take more care ...... n one more out of point point ..... if i ride dua gu i will go slow and let pple admire .... haha