Lane splitting

[DM]

i used to split lanes daily before i got an earful from someone who was concerned, so there i was, waiting patiently for a van in front to move off. he released his brake and rolled backwards ON A FLAT ROAD before grinding my front fender to a crumpled mass of plastic. all this being done while i was holding on to my horn and screaming at him to stop. after that, he just drove off while i stood there in shock.

 

i split lanes now and i like it.

[SeribuCC]

Originally posted by enfant@Dec 13 2006, 01:32 PM

i used to split lanes daily before i got an earful from someone who was concerned, so there i was, waiting patiently for a van in front to move off. he released his brake and rolled backwards ON A FLAT ROAD before grinding my front fender to a crumpled mass of plastic. all this being done while i was holding on to my horn and screaming at him to stop. after that, he just drove off while i stood there in shock.

 

i split lanes now and i like it.

Happened to one of my frens but his situation was on a slope while waiting for the lights to turn green..

P-Plate car rolled backwards my fren had to jump off his bike to save his legs and limbs.. In the end they compromised and all he got was a mere 100 bucks for the damages..

So sometimes if situation permits its better to lanesplit rather than forming up properly at traffic lights..

[nocturnized]

Originally posted by SeribuCC@Dec 13 2006, 02:18 PM

Happened to one of my frens but his situation was on a slope while waiting for the lights to turn green..

P-Plate car rolled backwards my fren had to jump off his bike to save his legs and limbs.. In the end they compromised and all he got was a mere 100 bucks for the damages..

So sometimes if situation permits its better to lanesplit rather than forming up properly at traffic lights..

Wahh 100 bucks onli !??

[SeribuCC]

Originally posted by nocturnized@Dec 13 2006, 02:51 PM

Wahh 100 bucks onli !??

Ya lor my fren also P Plate..

Don't know wat to do so he settle for 100

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by enfant@Dec 13 2006, 01:32 PM

i used to split lanes daily before i got an earful from someone who was concerned, so there i was, waiting patiently for a van in front to move off. he released his brake and rolled backwards ON A FLAT ROAD before grinding my front fender to a crumpled mass of plastic. all this being done while i was holding on to my horn and screaming at him to stop. after that, he just drove off while i stood there in shock.

 

i split lanes now and i like it.

 

Bingo.

 

Exactly the reason why I NEVER take the middle of the lane, ever.

 

In an empty lane, I keep to the edge of the lane closer to the inner part of the road so I have a fast escape option.

 

In heavy traffic, I split lanes. I will NEVER stay in the center of the lane to be a potential sandwich, or to eat the ass end of an "e-brake-for-no-fvck-reason" car.

 

When I stop at junctions, I will NEVER stop directly behind any car/bus/truck. I'll stay in between them, or in between lanes if the road is empty.

 

 

 

Ultimately, I believe that even if you were a considerate, careful and law-abiding rider.... riding safely and stopping in-lane. All it takes is one careless/reckless cager to put you in the soup.

 

I'd rather take the initiative to avoid putting myself in that situation. At least if I crash or wipe out, it will be by my doing and not by some other arsehole...

[bbdcEr]

Originally posted by tourer84@Dec 12 2006, 01:32 PM

I broke a car's mirror while lanesplitting some time ago, the driver claimed against me and he lost the claim. A friend of mine lane splitted during a stationery traffic, a car jutted out and hit him causing him damages and injuries, he claimed against the driver and won.

Just wondering how can both of u and your friend can win after u broke car's mirrors?

 

 

I am a newbie and dont have a bike yet.

 

But i read from a riding book, Riders should proceed in traffic jam if there is space, RIders should be ahead of other vehicles when stopping to let others see u.

 

So, Lane split in stationary vehicles should be right and safe.

[Keynes]

Originally posted by keratsini@Dec 12 2006, 11:22 AM

A. Is it Legal for car C to overtake?

B. Is it safe for car C to lanesplit?

 

Hi.

 

Let me try to answer these.

 

A. If there are lanes which are wide enough such than 3 cars can pass safely abreast in 2 lane in Singapore, then it should be perfectly legal for car C to overtake.

 

My reasoning is, if car C is deemed to be illegal becasue it lanesplit, then any vehicles (bikes included) who lanesplit in Singapore will be illegal too. However, most of us, if not all of us, know that lane-splitting when riding a bike is perfectly legal in Singapore.

 

B. Safe or not for car C to lane split depends on many factors, such as:-

 

1) what is the gap between car C and car A and car B? Safe gaps must be there for lanespliting to be safe,

 

2) what speed does car C overtake car A and B, a good safe speed will be 10 km/hr above the faster of the 2 cars.

 

3) car C driver must be in full alert and make the lanesplit process as short as possible, always ready to honk and stop when necessary.

 

Opinions?

[keratsini]

Hi Keynes,

 

Merry Christmas and Happy new Year.

 

Thanks for your reply but I see no reason to go on argueing. One think is for sure that lane spliting is ILLEGAL in Singapore. This is a fact.

 

Anyone can assume whatever he/she wants to assume and ride anyway he/she wishes to ride.

 

Went through this thread and realised that most of the participants still believe that lane spliting is legal and safe. For crying out loud, how can this be possible? When you lane spliting you are always on the blind spot of the cars. Is that safe? Traffic Police can issue fine for lane spliting (I got one) and there are still people believe is legal (at least in Singapore)?

 

I agree with you that ALL of us we lane split. At least we should try and do it as less as possible.

 

It freaks me out every time I see riders riding on the white lines even when the road is empty. The driving centers in Singapore do an excellent job to educate the riders (and the drivers of course) but after they get their licence, they simply forget everything and start assuming themselves what is legal and what is not, what is safe and what is not.

 

So sorry for my tone but I came to the point that I can not take it anymore reading all these nonsense.

 

Cheers

 

P.S. If you want to fire me for the above, please go on.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by keratsini@Dec 27 2006, 05:25 PM

Hi Keynes,

 

Merry Christmas and Happy new Year.

 

Thanks for your reply but I see no reason to go on argueing. One think is for sure that lane spliting is ILLEGAL in Singapore. This is a fact.

 

Anyone can assume whatever he/she wants to assume and ride anyway he/she wishes to ride.

 

Went through this thread and realised that most of the participants still believe that lane spliting is legal and safe. For crying out loud, how can this be possible? When you lane spliting you are always on the blind spot of the cars. Is that safe? Traffic Police can issue fine for lane spliting (I got one) and there are still people believe is legal (at least in Singapore)?

 

I agree with you that ALL of us we lane split. At least we should try and do it as less as possible.

 

It freaks me out every time I see riders riding on the white lines even when the road is empty. The driving centers in Singapore do an excellent job to educate the riders (and the drivers of course) but after they get their licence, they simply forget everything and start assuming themselves what is legal and what is not, what is safe and what is not.

 

So sorry for my tone but I came to the point that I can not take it anymore reading all these nonsense.

 

Cheers

 

P.S. If you want to fire me for the above, please go on.

 

I'm interested to know how you've arrived at the conclusion that lane splitting is illegal.

 

 

So for this thread so far, we've heard two "facts" that are contradicting each other.

 

1. You allegedly got fined for 'lanesplitting' as you quoted. So from there, you derive that lanesplitting is illegal, period, from your experience.

 

2. Someone here posted earlier that he called he called up TP and they said that it was not illegal, or there's no written or clear regulation against it. That's that fella's word

 

 

 

How do you know that you did not receive that citation because you were moving too fast between cars, or perhaps the TP that booked you took your movements for careless riding?

 

Did it specifically state on your summons/ticket that your offence committed was: and it quote "Lane splitting" ?

 

 

Interesting because, many people including myself, have practiced lane splitting in the presence of TP bikes and have not received any warnings or summons for it.

 

Taking the safety factor out of this discussion because it is simply a moot point. Everyone has his/her own perspective on what is safe or not, despite what anyone else thinks, so it's pointless to debate it to flames or death.

[xxes123]

Originally posted by SeribuCC@Dec 13 2006, 02:18 PM

Happened to one of my frens but his situation was on a slope while waiting for the lights to turn green..

P-Plate car rolled backwards my fren had to jump off his bike to save his legs and limbs.. In the end they compromised and all he got was a mere 100 bucks for the damages..

So sometimes if situation permits its better to lanesplit rather than forming up properly at traffic lights..

at driving centres , its IMMEDIATE FAILURE if form up behind cars on a upslope .. they implement it for a reason ..

 

if wan form up on slope better to go side by side with cars , else i ususlly form up behind cars , taking up a lane ..

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by xxes123@Dec 27 2006, 06:24 PM

at driving centres , its IMMEDIATE FAILURE if form up behind cars on a upslope .. they implement it for a reason ..

 

if wan form up on slope better to go side by side with cars , else i ususlly form up behind cars , taking up a lane ..

 

If you rode on the road like you did in the driving centers, you would probably be honked at, cursed at, be overtaken dangerously... all on a regular basis.

 

What they teach you in class is always the "ideal" scenario. Out there in the real world, ideals die hard.

 

Everybody has to adapt or lose out.

[gorgonitz82]

true ...... sometimes even if i try to ride within speed limits on xpressway .... i get overtaken at high speeds ... no choice but to pick up speed .... not a good feeling when cabs cut in front of me at 100 ..... dun understand why they dun want to take the lane on my right or go the the rightmost lane .....

 

BTW can i clarify something. Izzit illegal to squeeze to front of traffic light when everyone waiting for green light? Oso izzit all right to travel in between lanes ?? feel uncomfortable travelling behind cars and buses .....

[cgl]

Originally posted by DeusExMachina@Dec 27 2006, 06:30 PM

If you rode on the road like you did in the driving centers, you would probably be honked at, cursed at, be overtaken dangerously... all on a regular basis.

 

What they teach you in class is always the "ideal" scenario. Out there in the real world, ideals die hard.

 

Everybody has to adapt or lose out.

I would like to stop arguing, but please, this forum is read by many, some new riders, some experienced ones.

 

If you think that you can don't follow all that you learnt at driving centres, then please go ahead.

 

I follow most of what I learnt, and it worked for me. I don't get honked at or cursed at often. If you had learnt your stuffs correctly, what they taught was to go with the flow of traffic, not overly slow or fast.

 

I frequently travel within speed limits on the expressway, it was never a problem for me. Even when it is not conjested, there is always a lane that have cars travelling within speed limits.

 

What they taught in driving centres have clear objectives. That is to keep all riders safe. Not all are highly skilled like you, and for those, the rules work well.

 

Ideals don't die hard, I survived 14 years on the road, zero demerit points, zero accident except 3 skids on wet roads, and I ride almost everyday of that 14 years.

 

Anyway, this thread that I had started is getting off-thread.

 

For those who want to talk about how irrelevant your lessons at Driving Centres are, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD.

[DeusExMachina]

Originally posted by cgl@Dec 29 2006, 10:54 PM

I would like to stop arguing, but please, this forum is read by many, some new riders, some experienced ones.

 

If you think that you can don't follow all that you learnt at driving centres, then please go ahead.

 

I follow most of what I learnt, and it worked for me. I don't get honked at or cursed at often. If you had learnt your stuffs correctly, what they taught was to go with the flow of traffic, not overly slow or fast.

 

I frequently travel within speed limits on the expressway, it was never a problem for me. Even when it is not conjested, there is always a lane that have cars travelling within speed limits.

 

What they taught in driving centres have clear objectives. That is to keep all riders safe. Not all are highly skilled like you, and for those, the rules work well.

 

Ideals don't die hard, I survived 14 years on the road, zero demerit points, zero accident except 3 skids on wet roads, and I ride almost everyday of that 14 years.

 

Anyway, this thread that I had started is getting off-thread.

 

For those who want to talk about how irrelevant your lessons at Driving Centres are, PLEASE START YOUR OWN THREAD.

 

You can believe whatever you wanna believe. No one is gonna stop you.

 

Good for you and your "ideals" that your stint in the driving center have worked well for you, and has become the one shining, guiding light in your everyday commute through urban hell.

 

Go pat yourself on your back. :clapping:

 

 

However.... the topic is lane splitting, and so all this argument is somehow relevant anyway.

 

Driving center says NO to lane splitting, in order to pass. But over 90% of riders observed on the roads practice lane splitting upon passing and getting their license.

 

That's proof enough that there are some lessons everyone will learn outside the classroom.

[WildCard]

Just chipping in....

 

Do driving centres say lane-splitting is no-no for ANY scenarios?

If I recalled correctly for my 2B lessons, the very reason we learn Da Plank is to allow us to practice for lane-splitting, especially in traffic jams or traffic stops?

That's wat my instructors taught us.

 

Anywayz, my personal experience & thoughts on the positive effect of lane-splitting and Situational Awareness in a package:

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forum/index....3465&hl=squeeze

[Cerius]

Originally posted by SeribuCC@December 13, 2006 02:18 pm

Happened to one of my frens but his situation was on a slope while waiting for the lights to turn green..

P-Plate car rolled backwards my fren had to jump off his bike to save his legs and limbs.. In the end they compromised and all he got was a mere 100 bucks for the damages..

So sometimes if situation permits its better to lanesplit rather than forming up properly at traffic lights..

now you know why the schools dont allow bikes to form up on slopes behind a car, so just lane spilt lor bo bian:smile:

[okl]

i always lane split, i find it safer, but not at high speeds on expressways... but i still do it nevertheless.

[mitosis]

yeah, i lane split too, esp at traffic junctions. the air is much fresher at the front

[William Tan]

To me, the best riding position on the road is where there are no cars on all sides. In normal road conditions, i will always try to keep a distance from the front and rear car and make sure (when possible) there's no car on my sides. As Wildcard mentioned, i do practice the "360SA" but to me its just called "be-aware-of-your-surrounding".

 

Lane splitting. I do that too, even with my fat Vara with 2 cute little E21 boxes. Why? Its not because i get to my girl's place 10mins earlier. I get there 20mins earlier! Imagine the traffic on the PIE from Tuas to Bedok at about 1845hrs!!??

 

I know that accidents happen sometimes because of others and you can't always be too careful, that's why i lanesplit within my own speed limits and always give way when i see another "slimmer" bike coming up from behind me.

 

I tried once, just for the fun of it, to ride like a car. This is my experience:

- Many cars have a tendency to tail gate and jam on brakes whenever the car they are tailing suddenly brakes.

- Ok.. so i keep a safe distance from the car in front. What does that get me? Car from other lane seeing the oppurtunity to swerve in thinking that it is a faster moving lane. To swerve in, they accelerate only to jam on their brakes when they realise that my lane is not moving much faster than theirs.

- Very often, i see car head lights in my mirror. Only the headlights.

- If i'm behind a SUV, i can't see sh|t infront. Lower cars with tinted glasses, not a problem. Vara is tall.. So am I.

- Traffic is crawling along at wat, 30-40km/h? Have to constantly change between 2nd and 3rd gear.

- Bike's fan seems to be ON most of the time.

 

I cant take any alternative route. From Tuas to Bedok at 1845hrs; tell me, which route will be the best?

 

So i say, Lane split by all means but please do so at your own pace and do not dream.

 

There's only so much they can teach you in schools. Lessons learnt outside of the classroom plays a bigger part in most ppl lifes.

[okl]

Originally posted by William Tan@January 10, 2007 09:02 pm

I tried once, just for the fun of it, to ride like a car. This is my experience:

- Many cars have a tendency to tail gate and jam on brakes whenever the car they are tailing suddenly brakes.

- Ok.. so i keep a safe distance from the car in front. What does that get me? Car from other lane seeing the oppurtunity to swerve in thinking that it is a faster moving lane. To swerve in, they accelerate only to jam on their brakes when they realise that my lane is not moving much faster than theirs.

- Very often, i see car head lights in my mirror. Only the headlights.

- If i'm behind a SUV, i can't see sh|t infront. Lower cars with tinted glasses, not a problem. Vara is tall.. So am I.

- Traffic is crawling along at wat, 30-40km/h? Have to constantly change between 2nd and 3rd gear.

- Bike's fan seems to be ON most of the time.

 

I cant take any alternative route. From Tuas to Bedok at 1845hrs; tell me, which route will be the best?

exactly, im in this dilemma most of the time, im sure most ppl are too.

 

damn true about the SUV sh|t..

 

a few more things, traffic going at 30-40km/h, we have no air-con, no radio, it gets to my nerve very quickly when im breathing in all the fumes and listening to bloody engine noises, all the while getting heated by my bike and sometimes looking at the sky which is about to rain.

 

dont forget how f'ed up it is to get stuck in traffic jams in the tunnels....&^$^$@

 

lane split at a speed within your own limits.

[mitosis]

Only an extremely patient man or a liar will claim not to lane split. WTH, in a jam we move off leg up stop leg down move off leg up stop leg down.

 

1 year after ride leg 1 short and fat 1 long and skinny le

 

So far I have never seen a bike queue up in deadlocked traffic.

[sfowner]

Originally posted by mitosis@January 11, 2007 12:40 am

Only an extremely patient man or a liar will claim not to lane split. WTH, in a jam we move off leg up stop leg down move off leg up stop leg down.

 

1 year after ride leg 1 short and fat 1 long and skinny le

 

So far I have never seen a bike queue up in deadlocked traffic.

It's true...

I saw one ang moh many times on a Phantom going from changi to city on ECP... NEVER LANE SPLIT.... follow traffic all the way. If traffic jams up, he actually stops behind car in front, until traffic moves again.

My hat off... to the utmost discipline. But just looks kinda funny la... hahahaha

[innards]

maybe the ang moh from US... over in US only California aloows lane splitting.

[Man V.1]

good that the ang moh did that...it is also to prevent accident from happening... salute him!

[Friday13]

A rider must always be more alert and decisive than other road users. Judgement is very important as there is no hard and fast rule on how we should ride - as long as we stay within the laws. Never heard that lane splitting is an offence... Always sees uncle sammies doing it... The enforcers are the role models bah...

I do split and sometimes do follow behind too.

Here's what I feel.

When splitting, do it at a safe speed and always have an escape route. Be ready for evasive manovre and use your lights to your advantage...

When following, keep a safe distance but not to safe until cars start coming in front of you and do e-brake. Be ready to stop anytime and if any car behind you tail gate you, then it is lane splitting time!

The bottomline is - When you ride, dun dream! 100% attention. Dun look at XMMs, look at nice cars and look for inspiration for 4D...