Motor Insurance Claims (3rd Party)

[alexanderegrt]

Good evening to all,

 

This post is concerning a few legal issues between an insurance company and its insured in the event of a traffic accident, which I'd like for some advices.

 

I'm involved recently in a motoring accident when I knocked the front of my car onto the rear of a motorcycle, the impact of which threw the motorcyclist off his bike onto the roadside and severely injuring him. The police came and I failed the subsequent breathalyser test because I've been drinking a bit before that. I was then taken back to the Traffic Police HQ at Ubi and tested a second time which I passed, having an alcohol content of 22mg per 100ml of breath. The traffic police informed me of the possibility of being charged with drink driving nonetheless, of which I fully understood since an accident had taken place and I had been drinking.

 

While I was waiting for the exact nature of the charge, my insurance company MSIG wrote me a letter saying they would REPUDIATE ALL LIABILITIES to me due to the fact that I had been drinking prior to the accident, which in doing so contravened the exclusion clause of the insurance contract. (Please do note the difference between repudiating all liabilities to me and to the third party.)

 

Consequently, I was charged with the lesser offense of Inconsiderate Driving by the Traffic Police for reasons that I can only be thankful for.

 

Today, I received a letter from the lawyer representing the motorcyclist, which is a copy of their claims made towards MSIG, which amounted to a sum which I wouldn't consider small by my standards.

 

The questions are:

 

1) Does MSIG have the legal right to repudiate all liabilities when I hadn't been charged with drink driving?

2) Is it legal for MSIG to eventually seek to recover the indemnity from me in the future? All they can do is to raise the premiums for any future insures?

3) Do I have to pay personally for the damages as laid out by the lawyer?

[eyke]

consult lawyer

[ki113r]

To be frank, you deserved to be revoked for life!!!

 

If you drink, don't drive la!!!

[Isopropyl]

call up the insurance and consult a lawyer as your case is quite serious.

 

chances are they can recover the cost from you since you have been drinking although you are not charged. you have the option of going to court if they do that but it will be hard to prove that you are not affected although your alcohol content is below legal limit. you did cause an accident isn't it? further more, you got to read up your insurance contract. does it spell out you have to be charged to be consider under the influence of alcohol? chance are the contract will just state something like as long as you drink and cause an accident. so your insurance in their legal right can still recover all cost from you. as stated, you can always engage a lawyer to fight for your case. but think about it, you are drinking and cause serious injury to an innocent man. will the judge side with you or your insurance? it all really depend on your coverage so read up your contract. 1st party have different coverage from a cheap 3rd party insurance. you get what you pay for.

 

of couse they can recover from you. if you decide not to buy insurance from them or not driving anymore does it mean they got to suck thumb? come on, be real...

 

as much as i try to be objective in replying, personally i can't help but wish you face the full force of the law. the victim can be any of us which have family to take care of. from your post, i can only see you are worry about footing the cost of the insurance and yourself. you don't seem to be remorse at all.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Isopropyl

[zhang jin]

call up the insurance and consult a lawyer as your case is quite serious.

 

chances are they can recover the cost from you since you have been drinking although you are not charged. you have the option of going to court if they do that but it will be hard to prove that you are not affected although your alcohol content is below legal limit. you did cause an accident isn't it? further more, you got to read up your insurance contract. does it spell out you have to be charged to be consider under the influence of alcohol? chance are the contract will just state something like as long as you drink and cause an accident. so your insurance in their legal right can still recover all cost from you. as stated, you can always engage a lawyer to fight for your case. but think about it, you are drinking and cause serious injury to an innocent man. will the judge side with you or your insurance? it all really depend on your coverage so read up your contract. 1st party have different coverage from a cheap 3rd party insurance. you get what you pay for.

 

of couse they can recover from you. if you decide not to buy insurance from them or not driving anymore does it mean they got to suck thumb? come on, be real...

 

as much as i try to be objective in replying, personally i can't help but wish you face the full force of the law. the victim can be any of us which have family to take care of. from your post, i can only see you are worry about footing the cost of the insurance and yourself. you don't seem to be remorse at all.

all drink drivers ,uses handphone causing accident & hurt to motorcyclists,please go & run down your own family members.all you people do is taking the chance,waiting for the law to catch up on you.still doing what you like,but dont get caught is it?

[Isopropyl]

all drink drivers ,uses handphone causing accident & hurt to motorcyclists,please go & run down your own family members.all you people do is taking the chance,waiting for the law to catch up on you.still doing what you like,but dont get caught is it?

 

bro, don't quote me. i didn't drink and drive. i can't even remember when is the last time i drink. you are scaring me:cheeky:

[ki113r]

bro, don't quote me. i didn't drink and drive. i can't even remember when is the last time i drink. you are scaring me:cheeky:

 

Haha, I also wondering why he quoted you.

.

.

.

Eh TS, u drink-drive & hit a biker. Then still come Singaporebikes forum ask for advice? I don't know what you thinking lol.

[contrarian]

1. Read your policy, speak to MSIG. The answer is probably yes.

 

2. It is likely to be within MSIG's rights to seek to recover the indemnity from you.

 

3. If you have breached the policy terms and you are required to indemnify the insurer, then yes you are required to pay the costs incurred by MSIG in dealing with the 3rd party claimant.

 

For details, speak to your lawyer.

[wait4me]

wa TS come here and ask...

 

 

dun worry, singapore laws abit flawed, get a good lawyer and hope for the best .

[Doremi]

People like you ought to be taken off the road permanently. The motorcyclist you knocked down dont deserved all these. None of the riders too. Anyway I seriously doubt you will learn your lesson. The next time, please crashed into the trees or divider. Whatever structures that could stop your foolish behavior. Who knows the next time will be hit and run.

 

Anyway i agreed Singapore law (traffic act and Penal code) is flawed and favor the rich and famous. Poor innocent motorcyclist.

[shahrul_azmil3]

Since ur other post is about buying bikes too

 

I wish u the same karma

 

Coz ur post aint remorseful

 

What goes around comes back around.

 

 

 

 

xp

 

 

Azmil rempit

[unsuitable90]

speaking of this, it is very clear to state that ts has no reget of what had happened in the drink & drive accident. ts is purely concerned about the monetary issues

after the accident. shame on you for causing such irresponsible act. you never know if the party involved in the accident have medical complications which stop

him from earning a honest living for his utmost priority such as his family. SHAME ON YOU.

[ki113r]

I wish u the same karma

 

Coz ur post aint remorseful

 

What goes around comes back around.

 

 

 

 

xp

 

 

Azmil rempit

 

Yeah fully agreed.

[jayz]

you bang ppl you pay lah. knn smlj

[Silent Hunter]

Some more is drink alcohol one. If I were the insurance company I also don't want to insure for you.

I will pay for the motorcyclist, but claim back from you full amount.

 

Like that then fair.

[alexanderegrt]

It's amazing how people can infer so much from a single post. That I only mentioned about the insurance policy issue and nothing else seemed to give the impression that I only cared about the finances, to heck with the motorcyclist and all other things. Truth is, I didn't deem it absolutely necessary to describe exactly what transpired after the accident, how I felt and the things I've done because it wouldn't help matters at this point. That you guys knowing or not wouldn't affect the judgement of the financial issues at hand, or so I thought.

 

I've been to the hospital numerous times since he was admitted, visited him and spoke to his family members. I felt very relieved when his dad forgave me since day one, saying that it was an accident which nobody wanted happened. When I sensed that they were at a loss regarding what else they could do, I tried liasing them with my own insurance (and adjuster) people, hoping that they could help them more since they're definitely more informed than I was. My parents even warned me regarding the clash of interest in this case.

 

His family came all the way from Malacca for the visit, and asked me to help them locate a cheap way of accommodation, and I tried looking for my property agent friends for assistance. Until I realised they were not able to rent any sort of room / apartment at all since they were on vacation pass, instead of employment pass or work permit etc. I was specifically warned against using my own IC to rent a room on their behalf, something which is illegal.

 

I wasn't any financially well-to-do person at all, being a recent graduate. Having a miserly 4-figure sum in the bank account rendered me almost incapable of helping them out in the monetary sense at all. So I did something I never thought I'd ever do and went praying. At a temple in Jurong West. Erawan Shrine in Bangkok. I hoped for any sort of divine intervention to make him recover quickly, no matter whether I'd have to go to jail or not.

 

I stopped myself from making the depressing visit him to the hospital everyday, and turned it into a monthly affair instead. The logic is that it would seem he'd made progress every time. The day when I first realised about the insurance company repudiating all liabilities, suddenly my future became so bleak. My peers were just beginning to start work after graduation, thinking about the cars they would buy, houses they could own, vacations they longed for, and there I was with a real probability that none of those would ever materialise. I could spend the rest of my life climbing out of the hole I'd dugged for myself, and that's considering the scenario that there's somewhere willing to hire someone with a court appearance record.

 

Btw, the judge didn't deem it necessary to suspend my driving license. But any chances of me driving again soon were effectively killed when the insurance included a clause, during the renewal, forbidding any drivers below the age of 30. Just as well, I remember telling a friend that the public would benefit from someone like me on the roads.

 

All these, I didn't mention in the first post due to aforementioned reasons. That's when all the flaming started coming towards me. I don't think doing so now will provide much relief, but at least let it be known before additional postings. To the guy who said anything about knocking down family members, yeah that's real cheap. Never involve family members in one's own dealings. To those who hope I'd crash and burn, I hope the metal plates and screws in my elbow and knee can provide scant consolation.

[Isopropyl]

It's amazing how people can infer so much from a single post. That I only mentioned about the insurance policy issue and nothing else seemed to give the impression that I only cared about the finances, to heck with the motorcyclist and all other things. Truth is, I didn't deem it absolutely necessary to describe exactly what transpired after the accident, how I felt and the things I've done because it wouldn't help matters at this point. That you guys knowing or not wouldn't affect the judgement of the financial issues at hand, or so I thought.

 

I've been to the hospital numerous times since he was admitted, visited him and spoke to his family members. I felt very relieved when his dad forgave me since day one, saying that it was an accident which nobody wanted happened. When I sensed that they were at a loss regarding what else they could do, I tried liasing them with my own insurance (and adjuster) people, hoping that they could help them more since they're definitely more informed than I was. My parents even warned me regarding the clash of interest in this case.

 

His family came all the way from Malacca for the visit, and asked me to help them locate a cheap way of accommodation, and I tried looking for my property agent friends for assistance. Until I realised they were not able to rent any sort of room / apartment at all since they were on vacation pass, instead of employment pass or work permit etc. I was specifically warned against using my own IC to rent a room on their behalf, something which is illegal.

 

I wasn't any financially well-to-do person at all, being a recent graduate. Having a miserly 4-figure sum in the bank account rendered me almost incapable of helping them out in the monetary sense at all. So I did something I never thought I'd ever do and went praying. At a temple in Jurong West. Erawan Shrine in Bangkok. I hoped for any sort of divine intervention to make him recover quickly, no matter whether I'd have to go to jail or not.

 

I stopped myself from making the depressing visit him to the hospital everyday, and turned it into a monthly affair instead. The logic is that it would seem he'd made progress every time. The day when I first realised about the insurance company repudiating all liabilities, suddenly my future became so bleak. My peers were just beginning to start work after graduation, thinking about the cars they would buy, houses they could own, vacations they longed for, and there I was with a real probability that none of those would ever materialise. I could spend the rest of my life climbing out of the hole I'd dugged for myself, and that's considering the scenario that there's somewhere willing to hire someone with a court appearance record.

 

Btw, the judge didn't deem it necessary to suspend my driving license. But any chances of me driving again soon were effectively killed when the insurance included a clause, during the renewal, forbidding any drivers below the age of 30. Just as well, I remember telling a friend that the public would benefit from someone like me on the roads.

 

All these, I didn't mention in the first post due to aforementioned reasons. That's when all the flaming started coming towards me. I don't think doing so now will provide much relief, but at least let it be known before additional postings. To the guy who said anything about knocking down family members, yeah that's real cheap. Never involve family members in one's own dealings. To those who hope I'd crash and burn, I hope the metal plates and screws in my elbow and knee can provide scant consolation.

 

you do know this is internet? people can say what they want as long as they are not breaking the law? even the late Mr Ma Chi case, he passed away in the accident, he still get flaming as well as his innocent family members who is not involve in the accident in anyway feel the heat. for such cases when there is injury or lost of life, as long as you involve a public forums, you can expect a witch hunt. as a graduate, you should be able to figure that out. it a simple idea. i do agree cursing at your family members is over the edge for me too. they are innocent.

 

you need to understand where all this is coming from. anyone here who is riding can be your victim. even the dog on the street have the right to scold you as they are your possible victims as well if they know how. what you have did is what every decent human being would have done. why not? you can do your duty of visiting the victim as well as make peace with his family so that they don't press charges. that a win win situation. seriously in a public forums, no one care about your situation. as mention, people just want blood. just take any useful information you can find here and don't bother to explain. you are only making the flaming worst.

 

i still have to say your biggest concern now is still monetary and status issues not to mention worrying not being able to drive:sian: from what you wrote which is ok. just be honest. that will be my biggest worried too if it happened to me.

[shahrul_azmil3]

Fact

 

If i was alive after a accident which i know i'm going to win a case then good luck to the other party.

 

Ive work for a bike shop once upon a time n deal with some sort of claims.

 

Everything i could claim to the other party.

 

- medical claims right down to therapy and specialists

- $$ involved from the time i'm not working

- bike damage from the odvious to the unodvious right down to the tyres. Major overhaul juz for claiming. Paintwork. Every scratched item need to be replaced even if its in working condition. Can say i want a whole rebuild of the bike

 

I ever did for a veteran friend of mine but of coz the case took years. In the end he got a payout profit of close to $20k. He retired from riding now is driving.

 

U can go down see the other party everyday but fact is he will have frens and family members that will wisper to his ears everyday to claim u cialat2. He will eventually give in to them.

 

That's how the system goes.

 

While u r dreaming about the cars, the beach house at sentosa, the party during new year countdown. The cash flowww. 4 digit amount in the bank. It could be 9999 still 4 digit.

 

The other party is injured. On his bed. Cant **** his gf. Cant ride his long awaited bike. Feeling the pain. Drips. Need help juz to go to the toilet. Feeling totally useless. Totally helpless.

 

 

xp

 

 

Azmil rempit

[crazydj]

Fact

 

1. You were drinking.

 

2. You banged into a motorcyclist and he is severely injured.

 

3. You changed his life for the worst.

 

Here you are talking about your life being potentially ruined when you already have ruined someone else's life. I do hope you are Singaporean. So the other party can sue you and make sure you pay. I had a minor accident years ago. Chinaman banged into me, his company insurance repudiate liability so the next step is to claim from him. Went on the run for a year. He got no money, want to sue him/force him to file for bankruptcy also cannot. End of the day, most likely things will come out from my own pocket. Its like how my lawyer said. A rock, no matter how you squeeze it for water, nothing will come out, so its not worth it for me to pursue further.

 

Let's look at this way TS. Your victim needs to be compensated somehow. Because you were drinking, you screwed him and yourself up. He would be better off claiming from your insurance because he knows he will get the money. If he claims from you and you have no money, you file for bankruptcy, both of you are at the losing end. In my case, the insurance company for the van driver is liable to pay part for my injuries, nothing more. So my bike damaged, loss of income, etc. all is to be paid by the driver. But here is the catch. I may get money for my injuries from the insurer, but they will get the money from the driver. This means that the driver has less to pay to me.

 

I'm no lawyer but using my case and applying it in your example, i can deduce that:

1. Your insurer will pay for the guy's immediate medical.

2. Your insurer will then claim it from you.

3. The victim's family will claim the rest of the costs from you.

 

In a nutshell, you will get a double whammy. In my case, i was so pissed because the driver can also choose not to pay me or his insurer and go away scott free. His insurer and myself is not willing to engage further services of the lawyer to pay up or force him to file for bankruptcy because we know the legal fees will just pile up and forcing him to file for bankruptcy will mean nothing. Simply put, if you got nothing to lose, then commit this kinda crime. But if you are Singaporean, you have ALOT to lose. If this scenario happens to you, i suggest you do whatever it takes to pay up.

 

End of the day, these are our own experiences and you need to consult your own lawyer to advice you accordingly.

[ki113r]

TS, I understand your point. If those things you said you done is true, then good for you. At least you gain forgiveness of the victim's family.

 

But you need to understand the point, 1 hundred good deeds can't cover 1 bad deed.

 

Ask yourself, what if "He died in the accident or suffer permanent disability?

 

Drink? Don't drive! Please keep this in your mind.