My bike skidded badly at high speed and.....

[CSV]

oh. but u shouldnt be applying front bike at turning, just press the rear brake slightly or down gear.

 

serious? i always use front brake to slow down while turning leh. though its more stable.

[smgoh6]

I agree on the no braking while turning thing. should slow down before entering a corner then smoothly accelerate thru.

[sawfly]

serious? i always use front brake to slow down while turning leh. though its more stable.

 

i think also if you brake and turn at the same time you are eating up more traction leh. if slippery confirm habisss

[CSV]

ok, then i need to change my habit.

 

cause i often want to try leaning further on my bike to see how low it can go. then sometimes, i realised, maybe too hot for my own comfort, end up braking lightly while turning.

 

eg. the PIE TO KPE entry.

[Jehuty]

I once skidded on my pulsar in my office MSCP. I was coming down the concrete slope, it was wet. Then I applied the front brakes as I was turning and boom in the next couple of seconds I was on the ground. My speed was only 20km/hr, yet I fall, but no injury.

 

Basically the killer combination is:

 

TURNING+MSCP+WET+JAM FRONT BRAKE = SURE FALL, 100%, even bridgestone tyres wont help you.

 

After that now whenever I see water even on normal roads, while turning, I am super super slow and keep my right hand completely off the brake lever.

 

Rear brake bro

[sawfly]

this is slightly off topic but it covers a lil on braking and turning at the same time .. and trail braking!

 

[S750WP]

Trail Braking for Motorcycling

 

In applying this technique, motorcycle riders approach turns applying front brakes to reduce speed. As they enter the turn, they slowly ease off the brakes, gradually decreasing or trailing off the brakes as motorcycle lean increases. This is done for several reasons.

 

First, it gives more traction because the downward force on the front tire is increased by load transfer. Second, as the brakes are applied and the weight shifts forward, the forks are compressed.[1] The compression of the forks changes the motorcycles steering geometry, decreasing stability in a way that makes the motorcycle more apt to lean and more quickly change direction. Third, decreasing speed decreases the motorcycle's cornering radius. Conversely, accelerating while turning increases the motorcycles cornering radius.

 

Fourth, trailing off the brakes while entering blind or tight corners allows the rider to slow if something unexpected blocks the rider's path. Because the motorcycle is already on the brakes and the front tire is getting additional traction from already slowing, the rider can slow even more with very little risk, depending on surface conditions. However, applying the brakes after the motorcycle is already leaned over can be exceedingly risky depending on surface conditions and lean angle.

 

Traditionally, trail braking is done exclusively with the front brake even though trailing the rear brake will effectively slow the motorcycle, also decreasing the turning radius. If the motorcycle is leaned over, forces from the front brake and the deceleration causes the motorcycle to yaw (lean), while use of the rear brake generates a torque that tends to align (straighten) and stabilize the motorcycle.[2]

 

The rider's ability to correctly choose his turn in, apex and exit points reduces or eliminates the need for prolonged trailing of the brakes into turns. This technique is commonly used when racing, but can enhance control and add more evasive options for street riders.

Risks

 

There is risk with trail braking because excessive use of the front brake can result in a loss of grip as the tire's adhesion is split between braking and cornering forces.[1] Effective trail braking requires finesse from the rider, which can be difficult to learn.[1]

Controversy

 

Guides such as the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic RiderCourse teach that the safest way for a beginning rider to approach a corner on a motorcycle is by performing all of the slowing before the entrance of the turn, discouraging the use of any brakes while the motorcycle is leaned over.[1][3] The argument against trail braking on the street, at least for beginners, is that the steep learning curve of trail braking makes it appropriate only for the race track. The benefit of learning trail braking to the street rider is that knowing and understanding how to slow while entering a corner gives a greater safety margin, particularly in blind, decreasing radius or downhill corners.

 

Freddie Spencer, founder of the now defunct Freddie Spencer's High Performance Riding School as well as Nick Ienatsch, author of the 2003 book Sport Riding Techniques and chief instructor of Yamaha Champions Riding School argue that trail braking should be used in nearly every corner as a means to help the motorcycle change direction, stating that trail braking gives the rider more control and significantly increases rider safety.[4][5]

 

Spencer and Ienatsch agree with the physics of angular acceleration and note that the slower any vehicle is going, the tighter the radius of the corner it can navigate.[4] This is seemingly opposed to Code's writing that, as soon as possible after initiating a turn, the rider should get on the gas smoothly and progressively throughout the turn.[6] Spencer points out that for every radius, motorcycle, and rider combination there is a maximum speed at which the turn can be navigated without exiting the road or suffering a low side crash. Code is saying that as long as this maximum speed is not exceeded, proper throttle control throughout the turn will result in higher corner exit speeds and faster lap times.

[S750WP]

Counter steering

 

[Jehuty]

Trail braking works only when you're entering the corner, not when you're already on a consistent lean. In a lean, rear braking, you could use engine braking but only if you have precise clutch control

[sawfly]

Trail braking works only when you're entering the corner, not when you're already on a consistent lean. In a lean, rear braking, you could use engine braking but only if you have precise clutch control

 

that's a good point. i think on the road we probably want to avoid excessive lean and conserve traction even during turning.

too hum to go to the limits on the road, got a fambily to go back to leh.

[Jehuty]

that's a good point. i think on the road we probably want to avoid excessive lean and conserve traction even during turning.

too hum to go to the limits on the road, got a fambily to go back to leh.

 

Yup, if you're going fast, you'll have to flip up, go straight and apply front brakes, most would just jam brake in the lean and lowside. If you're going slow, its not really an issue.

[hownowbrowncow]

slow down to the appropriate speed for the turn with brakes and engine brake...anticipate any pedestrians, cyclists or vehicles coming into your path...smooth in smooth out no sudden brakes or throttle

[CSV]

slow in, fast out.

 

i guess next time, i'll slow down first and then acceleraate as i am turning out. sounds simpler and safer.

[mechwira]

there are only 4 ways to take a corner:

 

1. slow in, fast out.

2. slow in, slow out.

3. fast in, slow out.

4. fast in, never come out.

 

it is a fact that you must finish whatever braking you need to do before you enter the corner. braking uses grip. cornering also uses grip. but you only have a fixed amount of grip to use, and it is the same grip from the same tyres that is used, whether for braking, cornering or accelerating. thus the less grip you use for braking, the more grip you have for cornering. and thats why there is no such thing as a 'fast in, fast out' cornering.

 

finish all your braking before cornering.

tilt bike, look thru the turn and gently increase throttle thru the turn.

once the road begins to straighten (no need fully straight), throttle your way out.

[CSV]

@mechwira, noted.

 

how's the ninja 300? compared to cbr600? more power? lol.

[mechwira]

@mechwira, noted.

 

how's the ninja 300? compared to cbr600? more power? lol.

 

you must be kidding

 

but i have to admit, based on my sedated riding style lately, i'm going everywhere at the same speed as before. just that of coz the ninja gets pushed much harder to maintain my riding style. which frankly is more fun

 

and on this thread's topic, the ninja is much easier to corner at normal speeds.

[Jehuty]

there are only 4 ways to take a corner:

 

1. slow in, fast out.

2. slow in, slow out.

3. fast in, slow out.

4. fast in, never come out.

 

it is a fact that you must finish whatever braking you need to do before you enter the corner. braking uses grip. cornering also uses grip. but you only have a fixed amount of grip to use, and it is the same grip from the same tyres that is used, whether for braking, cornering or accelerating. thus the less grip you use for braking, the more grip you have for cornering. and thats why there is no such thing as a 'fast in, fast out' cornering.

 

finish all your braking before cornering.

tilt bike, look thru the turn and gently increase throttle thru the turn.

once the road begins to straighten (no need fully straight), throttle your way out.

 

Not if its a sweeping corner, that one just blast through...and lean.

[solivagus]

Used to ride a TA200. Bike fishtails pretty easily, especially on wet/damp roads. Honda should really look into this issue.

[keyxblade]

Used to ride a TA200. Bike fishtails pretty easily, especially on wet/damp roads. Honda should really look into this issue.

 

phantom already not in production many years liao. I dont see this problem in other honda bikes

[sawfly]

phantom already not in production many years liao. I dont see this problem in other honda bikes

 

i think as long go easy on the rear brakes should be fine already as long riding on the phantom.. i only use more of the rear only on slowing to stop.

[Funky]

Used to ride a TA200. Bike fishtails pretty easily, especially on wet/damp roads. Honda should really look into this issue.

 

Agreed. TA200 has its unique temperament just like other bikes have theirs. I feel it takes a few years to really know one's bike well....like understanding a woman. Just don't provoke them in situations and places where they are most tender and I guess we should be fine.

[Heathx]

Hi Bros,

 

I have another testimony about protective gears. Was at Pasir Gudang and i suffered a high side at the BMW corner on my SP. Thankfully, bike mostly cosmetic damage. But me, not so lucky.

 

I suffered 2 fractured fingers on my left hand, both will need to op and put screw. Bruised shoulder, concussion, bruised knee and i blacked out after the crash for a while.

 

Looking back at the crash, i am thankful my friend insisted i buy a full suit before i go down, and i invested in a good suit that cost me $700 secondhand. the shoulder plate and knee plate were both scratched and shoulder plate was mildly dented. My helmet, agv k3, very badly scratched, but no hairline crack.

 

Had i gone down in just armored jacket and jeans and saf boots, i probably can't say the same thing, prolly lying in ICU now. So, please consider good protective gears.

 

Some may say "don't intend to crash", "i got more skill" etc etc. Nobody ever intends to crash, and while skill can vary, even MotoGP riders crash. Think of your loved ones. Ride safe everyone.

 

 

 

*just to add in circumstance of my crash... You all know how stereotypically, ah bengs like to lower their front fork on SP till very low? it is workable for sg roads, but if you're going to PG, pls raise it up again. I didnt raise it up, and thus mid corner, the fork ran out of freeplay to traverse, and my bike belly or footrest scraped floor and i lost control, ran off into gravel where i got tankslapped and highsided. Well, it's definitely much experience gained from this 1 crash. If you intend to track, please please set up the bike properly. Suspension and shocks settings are more important than many newbies like me realised. =P

Edited July 11, 2013 by Heathx

[Jehuty]

Hi Bros,

 

I have another testimony about protective gears. Was at Pasir Gudang and i suffered a high side at the BMW corner on my SP. Thankfully, bike mostly cosmetic damage. But me, not so lucky.

 

I suffered 2 fractured fingers on my left hand, both will need to op and put screw. Bruised shoulder, concussion, bruised knee and i blacked out after the crash for a while.

 

Looking back at the crash, i am thankful my friend insisted i buy a full suit before i go down, and i invested in a good suit that cost me $700 secondhand. the shoulder plate and knee plate were both scratched and shoulder plate was mildly dented. My helmet, agv k3, very badly scratched, but no hairline crack.

 

Had i gone down in just armored jacket and jeans and saf boots, i probably can't say the same thing, prolly lying in ICU now. So, please consider good protective gears.

 

Some may say "don't intend to crash", "i got more skill" etc etc. Nobody ever intends to crash, and while skill can vary, even MotoGP riders crash. Think of your loved ones. Ride safe everyone.

 

 

 

*just to add in circumstance of my crash... You all know how stereotypically, ah bengs like to lower their front fork on SP till very low? it is workable for sg roads, but if you're going to PG, pls raise it up again. I didnt raise it up, and thus mid corner, the fork ran out of freeplay to traverse, and my bike belly or footrest scraped floor and i lost control, ran off into gravel where i got tankslapped and highsided. Well, it's definitely much experience gained from this 1 crash. If you intend to track, please please set up the bike properly. Suspension and shocks settings are more important than many newbies like me realised. =P

 

 

Some idiots taught me about lowering forks as well, come to think of it, it was what caused my 2nd accident on the bike, bike was totaled but repairable, i got away unscathed plus minor abrasions and btw, you can't set SP forks.

[haoKR]

yeah get those from roller blade shop at east coast or pasir ris. cost at most $35 and good. or u can go ubi there got those scrambler accessories shop they sell those high end pad. cover the whole leg haha

 

high end pad,cover whole leg?

how big is the area that it covers ?

any idea of the shop name or add?

[haoKR]

Hi Bros,

 

I have another testimony about protective gears. Was at Pasir Gudang and i suffered a high side at the BMW corner on my SP. Thankfully, bike mostly cosmetic damage. But me, not so lucky.

 

I suffered 2 fractured fingers on my left hand, both will need to op and put screw. Bruised shoulder, concussion, bruised knee and i blacked out after the crash for a while.

 

Looking back at the crash, i am thankful my friend insisted i buy a full suit before i go down, and i invested in a good suit that cost me $700 secondhand. the shoulder plate and knee plate were both scratched and shoulder plate was mildly dented. My helmet, agv k3, very badly scratched, but no hairline crack.

 

Had i gone down in just armored jacket and jeans and saf boots, i probably can't say the same thing, prolly lying in ICU now. So, please consider good protective gears.

 

Some may say "don't intend to crash", "i got more skill" etc etc. Nobody ever intends to crash, and while skill can vary, even MotoGP riders crash. Think of your loved ones. Ride safe everyone.

 

 

 

*just to add in circumstance of my crash... You all know how stereotypically, ah bengs like to lower their front fork on SP till very low? it is workable for sg roads, but if you're going to PG, pls raise it up again. I didnt raise it up, and thus mid corner, the fork ran out of freeplay to traverse, and my bike belly or footrest scraped floor and i lost control, ran off into gravel where i got tankslapped and highsided. Well, it's definitely much experience gained from this 1 crash. If you intend to track, please please set up the bike properly. Suspension and shocks settings are more important than many newbies like me realised. =P

 

hope you are fine, wish u a speedy recovery.