Adding little 2T oil into fuel tank for 4-stroke bike and feel the smoothness

[Limsteel]

I nv use tat before, i like STP the way it is

 

one bottle of STP gas treatment can last me 3 tanks

 

Reputable test on fuel additives as attached below...

 

as for 2T in petrol, in no position to comment as I have no 1st hand or even 2nd hand experience. But I might give it a try on my 650GS. To me, such low level of 2T in petrol will really need a long time for carbon built up to a catastrophic stage. but I will only consider high Quality 2T.

Edited May 20, 2011 by Limsteel

[Guest IceLkipz]

Hi Guys, I tried adding 2T oil to my fuel on my R15. The vibrations are greatly reduced and thats about it. Nothing else gained. " )

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Yes, the smoothness is addictive. How did my bike feel like it grew another cylinder somewhere? Also, my Phantom does not overheat when doing long sprints on the highway due to more stable combustion (refer to 2T + petrol molecular theory). No need to run super-rich mixture for additional cooling.

[SparkerS1]

Reputable test on fuel additives as attached below...

 

it dun show whether it cleans the combustion chamber or not, i dun use it to increase my horsepower thou

[ahcongie]

i don dare to put 2T inside my tank .. y would u wan to do that?i don wan risk damaging my engine ..

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

it dun show whether it cleans the combustion chamber or not, i dun use it to increase my horsepower thou

 

I don't recommend fuel additives unless you really know what they do to your engine and have currently no other tuning option to fix the issue you have.

 

Sent from my hong kong gangsta phone using Tapatalk

[hachi]

I don't recommend fuel additives unless you really know what they do to your engine and have currently no other tuning option to fix the issue you have.

 

Sent from my hong kong gangsta phone using Tapatalk

 

During my younger days, I put in MX-21 fuel additive and clogged my carb. Many fuel additives are self pro claim. At least 2T can be burned and provide protection in harsh environment. Some read up in the SG car forum with positive results, I decided to take the risk.

Engine damage is uncalled for why? Engine damages is usually associated with lack of maintenance like oil change and race/harsh usage.

 

Just like the fully syn oil myth, risk of engine damage send many bikers pay premium to purchase those oil whereby many forgot that manufactures know their products well. If they dont insist I dont see why they need to put their reputation on the line and recommend just the correct viscosity.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Last week I did "destructive testing" while using 2T for "assisted lubrication", after some cosmetic surgery and a short riding break of a few days I went out again this time leading a friend on a 2A bike to a photoshoot locale. Bike was not started for almost a week and using an old half tank of petrol from last week plus 2T in it.

 

How well can a Phantom run with assisted lubrication vs high tropical temperature? It did very well and the bike's performance got favourable comments from the Super Four chasing behind.

[byte77]

Last week I did "destructive testing" while using 2T for "assisted lubrication", after some cosmetic surgery and a short riding break of a few days I went out again this time leading a friend on a 2A bike to a photoshoot locale. Bike was not started for almost a week and using an old half tank of petrol from last week plus 2T in it.

 

How well can a Phantom run with assisted lubrication vs high tropical temperature? It did very well and the bike's performance got favourable comments from the Super Four chasing behind.

 

Interesting test.

Used to ride Phantom before, the engine knocks hard when full throttle and even shivering at top speed.

With the assisted lubrication as described, its limit may be pushed further without much worry.

[byte77]

Yes' date=' the smoothness is addictive. How did my bike feel like it grew another cylinder somewhere? Also, my Phantom does not overheat when doing long sprints on the highway due to more stable combustion (refer to 2T + petrol molecular theory). No need to run super-rich mixture for additional cooling.[/quote']

 

The smoothness will encourage one to go faster as engine quieter and you feel like it can do more.

[Jehuty]

The smoothness will encourage one to go faster as engine quieter and you feel like it can do more.

 

Less friction, more revs = higher speed?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

It is quiet. Especially with a functional windshield reducing the sense of speed quite significantly, it's quiet and smooth enough that you're relying on visual feedback to gauge the acceleration.

 

(Open throttle. Huh, so quiet. Open more. Wow, the other vehicle is moving backwards )

 

Won't say adding 20ml of 2T saves any fuel, the performance and improved refinement is worth it.

 

If you have problems with fuel flow at wide open throttle (leading to the engine sputtering and losing power near to top speed), then 2T helps lubricate your fuel lines as well solving the sputtering problem. This is relevant, once again, to old bikes that you can't be bothered to fix (or can't fix) any other way.

 

Increased smoothness + no knocking or overheating = shiok. It helps so much because a 4 stroke single cylinder engine naturally creates lots of vibration since it fires only every other stroke. The weight of the crank and the counterweights on it only balance the engine at certain, optimised rpms.

 

I will probably not promote the use of 2T as a "magic additive". There are no such things.

 

But if your machine has reached the limits of conventional tuning potential and that of its stock parts, then constructive use of engine and oil additives can and will give you that 110% capability, if you did your homework right!

 

I think that this 2T thread is useful not only as an interesting lubrication experiment but also sets a precedent to more discussions of "interesting tips"

Edited May 23, 2011 by Pandora's Kitten :3

[SparkerS1]

Yrs back i already tried this, but i nv post such topic cos i dun wanna be accountable for any problems by other bike users

[baamvo]

I have an aluminum wired home built in 1975. I was going to add a bathroom exhaust fan, and

[byte77]

Yrs back i already tried this, but i nv post such topic cos i dun wanna be accountable for any problems by other bike users

 

Doctors are not held accountable after some died in cancer treatments too.

[byte77]

I think that this 2T thread is useful not only as an interesting lubrication experiment but also sets a precedent to more discussions of "interesting tips"

 

The next interesting thread one may want to start should be DIY voltage stabilizer (big capacitors connected in parallel).

 

For e.g.

http://diy.mozaks.net/data/engine_diy/2_mfnsyuwqtm_volt_stabilizer.jpg

[ezzyoiler]

Doctors are not held accountable after some died in cancer treatments too.

this is very irresponsible thinking...

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

The next interesting thread one may want to start should be DIY voltage stabilizer (big capacitors connected in parallel).

 

For e.g.

http://diy.mozaks.net/data/engine_diy/2_mfnsyuwqtm_volt_stabilizer.jpg

 

We have a few in the market already, Power Abuser, Revtec impedance stabiliser etc. Merits more examination and maybe a search for who can make one DIY.

 

Doctors are not held accountable after some died in cancer treatments too.

 

I think the majority of DIY tuners and automotive enthusiasts encounter the usual "naysayers" who shoot down new ideas with threats that "you will need to overhaul your engine shortly".

 

This creates a culture of fear and causes people to spend much more than they have to on vehicle maintenance than they have to. Because this culture of fear prevents anyone from learning the basic mechanics of the vehicle (and thereafter, the means of making it more efficient / maintain it's efficiency)

 

To prevent this, simply focus on presenting the theory of the given idea / modification and implement a process of testing and monitoring in stages.

 

It's perfectly safe - because as I notice there is a large fraction of carburetted bikes out there on the road that aren't custom-tuned are running way too lean for their own good. So you have Phantoms with wrong carb settings and wrong engine oil type / levels going zillions of kilometres for years before being handed down to people like myself who rescue them from the dead.

 

The majority of us with used motorcycles aren't running manufacturer-recommended specs and they survive just fine, meaning there is a lot of room to experiment with fine-tuning. Don't like it - revert back to previous running condition.

 

The conclusion is that tuners like me aren't held accountable at all, because the person that does the tuning is the person who actually owns the bike and is holding the screwdriver in his/her own hands. What I do is facilitate joint learning and conduct experiments in support of those who want to push the boundaries of DIY technical awareness There is no commercial intention to such experiments so the emphasis is not running around doing up bikes - it's for other riders' hands on learning experience.

 

People just show the way and share their experiences on lubrication, where to turn screws, how to judge the effects of tuning, what to look out for etc.

 

It's free sharing of knowledge, why stop here?

[crazydj]

I think the majority of DIY tuners and automotive enthusiasts encounter the usual "naysayers" who shoot down new ideas with threats that "you will need to overhaul your engine shortly".

 

 

I don't see it as a threat. I just see it as someone giving his view on whatever new idea that has been come up with. For those who see it as a threat, i think that they are either too extreme in their support for their new ideas or do not know enough about the basic concepts at hand and shouldnt be DIY-ing in the first place.

 

As for me, when i come up with a new idea, i am open to criticism as they can help me further develop my idea. Its like when you create a computer program. You already know what benefits it brings, but you don't know what are the downfalls and bugs that may be present. Hence, i will invite others to come and find any flaws with my theories and explanation.

 

I feel that the conflict here should be the idea itself rather that who's accountable and all the crap. One person gave an idea. Another person chose to follow it. Yet, another person warned of what he thought could be flawed with the idea. Whatever it is, if the person who followed it engine spoil, he cannot blame anyone because no one forced him to do it. He has to make his own judgement.

 

Oh well, chill out guys.

 

PS: I still hold my stand with ezzyoiler on this one. If this idea was sound in the first place, someone would have thought of it many years back. And don't use nonsense like "This is what the oil companies don't want you to know" kinda argument.

[byte77]

this is very irresponsible thinking...

 

Yes I agree with you that this medical practice is irresponsible.

But this is unavoidable as some's conditions vary.

 

Anyway, back to 2T oil, it is designed to lubricate and combust better.

There is no statement on the bottle such as "Inappropriate use may kill your bike." It is perfectly safe to use on bike engine with controlled quantity.

 

Just like coke, if not taking it as primary water source, it just gives joy.

Edited May 24, 2011 by byte77

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

It's actually a very common practise for vintage / classic engine restorers to run the engine with a small quantity of 2T for assisted lubrication. Some of those old engines don't have very good top end lubrication.

 

Others use 2T creatively to make up for flaws in vehicle/engine design or to improve upon basic performance. Rotary engines for instance have oil injection systems that inject oil into the combustion chamber at high throttle positions. Now, car oil doesn't protect the entire cavity of the rotary combustion chambers very well, so RX8 enthusiasts use motorcycle 2T in a premix formula (big car fuel tank here, folks) and viola, they found the 2T does lubricate and protect the entire interior of the rotary engine.

 

I wonder where the "threat" of chronic sludge buildup came from. It's scientifically irrelevant since 2T usage is related to fuel lines, carburetion and combustion, not sludge buildup in the crankcase/oil sump - the lower mechanical end of the engine.

 

It may not be well known locally, but eventually such practises, thanks to the Internet and overseas automotive experience, do find their way back home.

 

It's just like chains with rubber seals in them. Some say that O-rings and X-rings and now Z-rings are useless. Actually, they make chains more efficient and longer-lasting by sealing lubrication between the chain links. A bike shop I know now supplies X-ring chains exclusively and at no extra cost to bikes that are known to suffer from greater than average chain wear (due to the swingarm design and length of the chain).

 

I was one of the first adopters at that time, knew the reason for designing X-ring seals, ignored people who said X-rings serve no purpose, and enjoyed a chain that lasted pretty much forever with no maintenance (still using it, no adjustment needed).

 

We're not advocating suddenly putting vodka into the fuel tank for added +10kph speed (that's silly outside of the movies) but old bikes out of warranty can be a lot of fun because there's no correct solution to tuning them to last the next decade.

 

You can also experiment with some famous racing technologies that were derived from wartime horsepower-boosting techniques. They are very simple and very effective and have found some place in the design of high end cars. If you're creative some of these can be constructed out of household parts

[MJ Gurunathan]

I have written this because there has been much discussion on the use of two-stroke oils in four-stroke engines (and vice-versa) with little emphasis on what the oils are actually supposed to be used for. If the nature of the oil is understood, it will be easy for you to find other practical uses for it.

 

Two stroke engines use two-stroke oil (2T) because the fuel-air charge is passed through the bottom end of the engine; that mixture of fuel and air will wash bearings clean of any lubricant, so two-stroke oil is mixed with petrol to add some lubrication to the bottom end of the two-stroke engine. In a two stroke engine, "holes" in the cylinder wall (ports) help pass this mixture through the bottom of the engine and round to the top again for compression and burning.

 

A four-stroke engine doesn't pass the fuel-air charge through the bottom end of the engine. Instead, that mixture is confined to the combustion chamber by a set of piston rings. Poppet valves help seal the mixture in the combustion chamber for burning. At the end of the whole combustion process, the piston pushes the spent gases out through the exhaust ports (passing the exhaust valves) and the whole cycle starts again. Since the fuel-air mixture is confined to the combustion chamber and does not pass through the crankcase, no added lubrication is required. Oil jets spray oil at the underside of the piston, lubricating the gudgeon pin and cooling the piston crown. Some oil is splashed onto the cylinder walls for piston skirt lubrication, but does not enter the combustion chamber because of a set of scraper and sealing rings.

 

Rotary engines require a lossy lubrication system; small amounts of oil are added into the combustion chamber to lubricate the apex seals of the engine rotor.

 

As a four-stroke piston engine wears, the piston rings become less effective at sealing gases in the combustion chamber. This results in some of the mixture 'blowing' past the piston rings and heading down into the crankcase; once it's there, those gases react with your engine oil to produce some pretty foul by-products. Valve seals also leak, allowing oil from the cylinder head to drain into the combustion chamber. You can easily tell valve seal failure by the sooty and oily appearance of four-stroke exhaust ports and exhaust valve stems.

 

As for oils:

 

2T is two-stroke specific oil that is designed to be burnt together with the fuel-air mixture. This is the 'engine oil' of two stroke motorcycles.

 

4T is an oil that is designed to lubricate the valve-train, camshafts, gears, timing chain (or gears) as well as (in most motorcycles) the gearbox and clutch of a four-stroke engine. This is the 'engine oil' of four-stroke motorcycles and commonly, the 'gearbox oil' of two-stroke motorcycles. Most motorcycle engine oils differ from car oils in that they do not have some of the anti-friction additives that car oils have. This is because motorcycle oils are designed to lubricate the wet clutch of a motorcycle engine; since clutches depend on friction to work, putting an anti-friction additive into a motorcycle engine oil would be reducing the functionality of the clutch.

 

'Gear oil' is a thick, heavy oil that is used to lubricate gearboxes, transfer cases, differentials and (in the case of a motorcycle) final drive units. It is not suitable for use in motorcycle transmissions unless it is specified as such. Any oil marked 'Hypoid Gear Oil', 'EP oil' or 'GL' is specifically designed to lubricate gearboxes. The use of such oils in a motorcycle transmission isn't recommended by manufacturers. Since such an oil is extremely viscous (thick), you'll notice your two-stroke motorcycle transmission may be a little sluggish. The clutch may also drag on a cold day when first starting the engine.

[SparkerS1]

Yrs back i already tried this, but i nv post such topic cos i dun wanna be accountable for any problems by other bike users

If this idea was sound in the first place, someone would have thought of it many years back.

I guessed u nv notice my above post

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

One month in with the carb retuned to compensate for 2t, bike absolutely flies, no hesitation on acceleration and very smooth. If anything it gets better tank after tank, proving the deposit issue is a myth and the American way of defaulting to mineral 2t for complete combustion is correct.

 

Ten thousand RPM at second to fourth gear on a veteran bike is something to behold.

 

Sent from my hong kong gangsta phone using Tapatalk

[tiku]

after reading this, i v keen in trying out..i gt a 3yr old or ever older 2t opened before...so im wondering will 2t ever expire...can seem to find any scientific article on it..