PLEASE, I BEG YOU TO RECONSIDER, to give allowance time for rider to insert their cas

[snowparang]

I only agree to the part that the ERP device should be redesigned. Whoever came up with that design obviously was only looking at cars or looking at the cheapest, most obvious form. Or even worse, no vehicles were used in the designing.

 

External sensor is not a bad idea but for me I wish the ERP unit can actually store money. I.E. plug ash card in, it will deduct like $10 (or even more) into the machine and then we can remove the cashcard. The $10 is stored in the ERP unit and there is nothing for theives to prey on.

 

Een better still, the ERP will detect the number of charges and simply deductthe amt monthly from our GIRO account! WHY MUST WE USE CASHCARD!

[contrarian]

4. traffic warrant is issuing fine "stop at road side" with demrit point and fine. this is the part which i am appealing. This is extremely unfair for road user who "without thinking" stop on the road side for 15-30 second to insert their cash card and moved on.

 

5. for lta to bill the user at the end of the month require the software engineer to change the system. additional cost to our government. (for my point of view)

 

 

I oppose your petition.

Why do you think the authorities fine people who stop at the roadside before the gantry?

 

Because it's dangerous for themselves, and for the other road users. Even people who stop at expressway road shoulders in real emergencies or breakdowns have been hit and some killed.

 

If you forget, drive through and worry about it later.

If you selfishly stop at the side, then get ready to pay and get DIPS points for that.

 

Be thankful the one behind didn't ram into you. And be thankful that the one in front of you didn't stop and cause you to ram into him and fly through the air.

 

I also oppose monthly billings. If you followed the development of the ERP, you will know why the government chose the pay as you go method instead of a pay each month method.

[redbeacon]

I oppose your petition.

Why do you think the authorities fine people who stop at the roadside before the gantry?

 

Because it's dangerous for themselves, and for the other road users. Even people who stop at expressway road shoulders in real emergencies or breakdowns have been hit and some killed.

 

If you forget, drive through and worry about it later.

If you selfishly stop at the side, then get ready to pay and get DIPS points for that.

 

Be thankful the one behind didn't ram into you. And be thankful that the one in front of you didn't stop and cause you to ram into him and fly through the air.

 

I also oppose monthly billings. If you followed the development of the ERP, you will know why the government chose the pay as you go method instead of a pay each month method.

 

While I second the opposition of the "roadside saman" appeal, I do believe LTA can do better in terms of billing people by giving the public a second option -- delayed payment. This could be demonstrated as what I'm going to explain next:

 

Look at the likes of London. They don't have gantries; vans equipped with license-plate-capturing cameras are used instead. Images captured by the cameras get processed by computers with OCR-like software, which input the resulting car plate number into the database of people to be charged.

 

Motorists who entered the city are given (i believe) 24hours to pay up their basic CBD toll fee via various electronic methods. This same technology is also provided for motorists to check their cumulative toll fee(s) online as well.

[xiaoxiao]

or have a device in the machine, that is attached to ur vehicle permanently..

once u go thru the gantry, it'll register ur vehicle.. and bill u the payment for entries u made for that month?

[mi5trooper]

I remember seeing the news once that this bill suggest is being study by the authori. i also hope a good solution can come up asap to "take away" "human error" issue.

 

i am sure LTA can improve to achieve a higher and greater achievement that will sati both the provider and the consumer.

[contrarian]

Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.

[undead]

Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.

 

If that is true, I want to volunteer testing this and subsequently to be the first using it.

[sheep]

I think its simply easier and less usage of the brain to just summon first, then u appeal later.

Majority of the people will just curse, "KNN $10 + ERP charge" then lanlan go pay.

Only a small minority who felt wronged will appeal.

 

Lets say, out of 10 offenders, only 3 appeals and the rest just swear and pay the fine, they will earn that BS $70 administrative fee without any contest.

 

So by making the Money sucking device into an idiot proof one, imagine how much administrative charges they will lose.

 

Basically the $10 administrative charge is damn jialat.

Like a fat bonus like that. 50cents ERP charge and the $10 admin

[mi5trooper]

dear sheep. i am not taking about the $10 + erp charge.

 

I am talking about human nature act. with some bad luck, the traffic warrant appear at the same time, he/she may issue a fine that send to you. the fine is (i forgot 70 or 150) plus 3 demrit point. The reason given is road shoulder are not to be stop at all time unless it is life and death emegency. (yes, that means if it rain, you are not allow to stop and change rain gear too).

 

I am most willing to contribute to the road traffic system fairly. i have up the the extend of tie the cash card on the key. But human do forget. And human do have the nature act (nature act is action before thinking. for eg, hungry will eat.) pull over to insert the cash card. And i can fairly say, this possible error may happen once a yr.

 

anyway, the greatest appeal is for a IU unit that can sperate the sensor from the cash card, and the cash card can be install in hidden and secure location for eg under the seat compartment or in a box. In this way, owner can safely leave a cash card in the system without taking out.

 

I have try custom make a locking bracket but have to remove it becos the ERP cannot sense the IU.

 

I have use lock but was break in many time.

 

my IU is well covered. i try install the iu in the box too. but that also fail to scan (a few time). I test the scan with the inspection centre.

 

i have make a few police report that the kind police actually is petrol more often (thanks).

 

The second appeal if hope for LTA to consider a "stop and go" area at the road shoulder to allow bike to stop - insert card - go. LTA just need to draw a yellow box at the shoulder. Of cos, many in the forum has express the possible danger it may rise.

 

I have actually keep reminding myself to go thru the gantry without thinking. but nature act always kicks in when i can only think "i don't have cash card in iu".

 

i started this and i know i will mostlike get shoot down. i just want to voice out and need a listen ear.

 

i hope the new IU or ERP system can come out asap. i hope a win win issue for both LTA and consumer can happen asap.

[mi5trooper]

i am willing to pay $xx for that device. dear LTA pls show mercy. :-)

 

 

 

Last year, it was reported that they were developing the next generation IU that allows negative values to be stored in the IU and the value deducted from the cash card that you next insert into it. Let's see if it is put to production by 2008.

[mr hat]

1 person voice is soft. a nation voice is loud.

 

i support ur cause bro... but unfortunately for us, the "nation" does not ride....

[cool_bikers]

Hi everyone, there's a lot of comments and reply by u guys for me to read bout this IU thingy. Y not make it simple for the authority. Since most vehicle have got the IU, and they will eventually fine us if we pass tru the gantry without inserting the cash card. Y can't they just turn the system around and make life simpler for everbody. U don't nid to re-design the device but jus bill us whenever we pass tru da gantry, isn't it better dat way. We are use to paying our PUB, Phone bills and watever bills, so i don't see any hassle juz to include one more bills.

 

This is juz my personnal opinion, maybe u guys out there have a better idea.

[mi5trooper]

this may require huge software engineer labour. sigh..

 

 

 

 

Hi everyone, there's a lot of comments and reply by u guys for me to read bout this IU thingy. Y not make it simple for the authority. Since most vehicle have got the IU, and they will eventually fine us if we pass tru the gantry without inserting the cash card. Y can't they just turn the system around and make life simpler for everbody. U don't nid to re-design the device but jus bill us whenever we pass tru da gantry, isn't it better dat way. We are use to paying our PUB, Phone bills and watever bills, so i don't see any hassle juz to include one more bills.

 

This is juz my personnal opinion, maybe u guys out there have a better idea.

[contrarian]

Fine, all of you, listen to your former minister answer this question:

 

---

Budget debate for Ministry for Transport -- ERP for Motorcycles

Fri, Mar 12, 2004

Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ERP for Motorcycles

 

 

Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong (Non-Constituency Member): Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. Not everyone is born with the talent of good memory and habit of checking for our cash cards before leaving our machine. Bikers should not be financially penalised with loss because of the design system issue or problem. The ERP reader has been in place for almost 10 years since the start of the road pricing. It is high time an alternative to the cash card reader be considered and implemented for motorists to alleviate this problem of stolen cash cards in motorcycles and also smashed windscreens in cars.

 

 

 

My suggestion is for LTA to consider the setting up of a system whereby the motorists, whether car drivers or motorcyclists, can sign up for a monthly billing and Giro deduction system. Under such a system, the card reader records the different entries under different ERP gantries and LTA can bill the registered motorists electronically at month-end and receive payment via Giro automatically. I believe this is not a very high-tech nor expensive system and it will greatly reduce the inconvenience that road users have to bear, especially when they forget to insert the card, top up the cash card, hide or lose their cash card or stolen through windscreen breakage. This will also discourage petty theft as there is less opportunity to tempt the thief into stealing and smashing windows for that cash card. I hope the Minister will at least agree to look into this idea before giving his objection.

 

 

 

 

Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: . . . . . Mr Steve Chia mentioned about the poor design of the motorcycle IU. I agree with Mr Chia that the present In-vehicle Unit (IU) for motorcycles is not really ideal. But the key constraint that we have to bear in mind is that the IU has to be mounted in front of the vehicle to allow it to communicate with the ERP gantry, and to enable the motorist to view the value of his Cashcard. This applies to both cars and motorcycles. I think the problem is, unlike cars, for motorcycles it is very difficult to place the IU in a position where it can be locked and concealed because the motorcycle is a very open one.

 

 

 

The good news I have for Mr Chia is that LTA is now looking into a new generation IU that would have improved features to reduce the incidence of Cashcard theft. In the meantime, we have to continue to remind motorists to avoid the risk of losing their Cashcard by remembering to remove it from their IUs when they lock up their vehicles.

 

 

 

He also suggested a system where the motorist can sign up and have their ERP charges deducted automatically at the end of the month. Sir, in fact this was one of the options looked at when designing the ERP system and designing the in-vehicle unit. But the feedback was a very negative one, because what this means is that there will be a record kept of where you were at each time of the day for the whole month. Many thought this was an intrusion of the privacy of the individual. And in view of the very negative feedback, LTA decided not to adopt this system. I would imagine that the objections will still prevail today if we are to propose it. So, let us look for other solutions instead.

 

 

I agree with the LTA and am one of those who oppose monthly billing.

[sikonesis]

i agree with contrarian in that there's too much risk in a sudden maneuver to the

road shoulder. i mean, it's alright of you remember early on and you're carefully

making way to the shoulder to put in the cashcard. the most common scenario

however is the sight of the gantry triggering the impulse to insert the cashcard,

and by then, it's most likely too late.

 

the IU is bulky due to the display and an internal battery. otherwise, it's quite

flat. however, even if they redesign into 2 parts as the TS suggested, i think

that thieves will still break in, knowing that more people will leave their

cashcards in. though this time, it will be worse as they'll most likely pry open

the box or the seat to get at the thing..

 

anyway, the system in the UK is not ideal, especially since you can avoid the

cameras by tailgating (common here) or switching lanes at the right time.

also, by paying later, humans being forgetful will forget to pay and

subsequently be fined for that.

 

however, riders there and in sweden have it good since motorcycles are

exempt from these 'congestion taxes' (which is what ERP is supposed to be).

 

i think that this should be the adopted solution. no erp for bikes, hence no

need for an IU. since, logically, motorcycles hardly contribute to congestion

by virtue of our small size and the ability to lanesplit.

 

my $0.02.

[GuiNNeSS]

and when ya lane split, they will catch ya for reckless riding....

[sikonesis]

seriously, how many people have been summoned for lane splitting? i think the

TP understand that this is an advantage for us riders and ignore this most of

the time. i mean, i'm sure some of us have experiences of riding past a TP WRX

stuck in a t-jam, and getting away with it. i have, twice. it should be fine as

long as it's not recklessly done.

 

anyway, back to the topic. i think bikes should be exempt from ERP. that would

really kill a lot of birds with one stone, inclusive of the need to suddenly insert

the cashcard..

[xiaoxiao]

Fine, all of you, listen to your former minister answer this question:

 

---

Budget debate for Ministry for Transport -- ERP for Motorcycles

Fri, Mar 12, 2004

Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ERP for Motorcycles

 

 

Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong (Non-Constituency Member): Sir, the current cash card reader on motorcycle is big and bulky and openly subjected to theft of cash card. Many motorcyclists, myself included, as I declare here, are known to have lost many cash cards when they forget to take it out from the reader, after they have parked the motorcycle. Not everyone is born with the talent of good memory and habit of checking for our cash cards before leaving our machine. Bikers should not be financially penalised with loss because of the design system issue or problem. The ERP reader has been in place for almost 10 years since the start of the road pricing. It is high time an alternative to the cash card reader be considered and implemented for motorists to alleviate this problem of stolen cash cards in motorcycles and also smashed windscreens in cars.

 

 

 

My suggestion is for LTA to consider the setting up of a system whereby the motorists, whether car drivers or motorcyclists, can sign up for a monthly billing and Giro deduction system. Under such a system, the card reader records the different entries under different ERP gantries and LTA can bill the registered motorists electronically at month-end and receive payment via Giro automatically. I believe this is not a very high-tech nor expensive system and it will greatly reduce the inconvenience that road users have to bear, especially when they forget to insert the card, top up the cash card, hide or lose their cash card or stolen through windscreen breakage. This will also discourage petty theft as there is less opportunity to tempt the thief into stealing and smashing windows for that cash card. I hope the Minister will at least agree to look into this idea before giving his objection.

 

 

 

 

Mr Yeo Cheow Tong: . . . . . Mr Steve Chia mentioned about the poor design of the motorcycle IU. I agree with Mr Chia that the present In-vehicle Unit (IU) for motorcycles is not really ideal. But the key constraint that we have to bear in mind is that the IU has to be mounted in front of the vehicle to allow it to communicate with the ERP gantry, and to enable the motorist to view the value of his Cashcard. This applies to both cars and motorcycles. I think the problem is, unlike cars, for motorcycles it is very difficult to place the IU in a position where it can be locked and concealed because the motorcycle is a very open one.

 

 

 

The good news I have for Mr Chia is that LTA is now looking into a new generation IU that would have improved features to reduce the incidence of Cashcard theft. In the meantime, we have to continue to remind motorists to avoid the risk of losing their Cashcard by remembering to remove it from their IUs when they lock up their vehicles.

 

 

 

He also suggested a system where the motorist can sign up and have their ERP charges deducted automatically at the end of the month. Sir, in fact this was one of the options looked at when designing the ERP system and designing the in-vehicle unit. But the feedback was a very negative one, because what this means is that there will be a record kept of where you were at each time of the day for the whole month. Many thought this was an intrusion of the privacy of the individual. And in view of the very negative feedback, LTA decided not to adopt this system. I would imagine that the objections will still prevail today if we are to propose it. So, let us look for other solutions instead.

 

 

I agree with the LTA and am one of those who oppose monthly billing.

 

intrusion of privacy? i have a few questions tho..

 

then those who went thru the ERP gantry without cashcards in their IU? they sure have a RECORD of what time/when/which gantry they went thru.

isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

 

and how about the summons?

summons also contain where/what time u made the offence.

isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

[contrarian]

intrusion of privacy? i have a few questions tho..

 

then those who went thru the ERP gantry without cashcards in their IU? they sure have a RECORD of what time/when/which gantry they went thru.

isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

 

and how about the summons?

summons also contain where/what time u made the offence.

isnt this intrusion of privacy as well?

 

Look at the ERP gantry. There are two parts - the transponder gantry and then the camera gantry. The transponder gantry will deduct and record the IU number of those whose signal shows insufficient value. The camera gantry will record pictures of passing vehicles where the IU has failed to transpond. You can save yourself this by paying at the point of collection with enough value in the cashcard in the IU.

 

Secondly, complete records of your movement are not listed and sent to your home monthly. Like the ez-link card, although it can tell you what the last few transactions were, the records are not listed and sent to your home.

[madman]

wat i know is, the gantry can list out on the LTA side pc these infos.

 

1) Bike license plate

2) Which gantry / time and date

3) Cashcard amount left (sufficient or insufficient amt deosnt matter) / and cashcard serial number

 

Those counter people at LTA already have access to these infos. So, If really someone wanted to track your movements, rather easy even now.

[jkaiser]

seriously, i dun see y is it so difficult to insert ur cashcard way before the gantry. Let's say you know that you are going on the expressway, if it's @ the peak hours and you know that your route would pass by gantry, just put in at the start..

 

If you're talking about a last min decision to turn into ERP road, say CBD, i'm sure you can find a place to stop on normal road (not Eway) to put in cashcard.

 

All boils down to your planning and anticipation, and remembering to remove the card after use

[mi5trooper]

1. what is lane splitting?

 

2. i did get a fine from a tp before for changeing lane without signer. is this lane splitting? i forget how many demrit was it.

 

3. to anyone always talking about "pre-plan" your route issue. PLEASE understand that human will have error. u and me are all human. the most common error is at the 6pm-8pm becos certain gantry only.

 

4. I have been searching in lta site and motoring site, i have the ERP gantry time and location and price list. but 6pm-8pm is not include in the pdf. it is not outdated info base on the price list. THIS is a "sign" that it is easily forgotten too. you and me and everyone on the earth is human. human will never be perfect. that is a fact. human do forget sometime, that is a fact.

 

 

let hope the solution will come asap - not saying mr perfect will have no problem.

[turnip]

1. what is lane splitting?

 

3. to anyone always talking about "pre-plan" your route issue. PLEASE understand that human will have error. u and me are all human. the most common error is at the 6pm-8pm becos certain gantry only.

 

 

yes, to err is human. well then, pay for error. simple.

 

cheers!

turnip

[turnip]

seriously, i dun see y is it so difficult to insert ur cashcard way before the gantry. Let's say you know that you are going on the expressway, if it's @ the peak hours and you know that your route would pass by gantry, just put in at the start..

 

If you're talking about a last min decision to turn into ERP road, say CBD, i'm sure you can find a place to stop on normal road (not Eway) to put in cashcard.

 

All boils down to your planning and anticipation, and remembering to remove the card after use

 

i agree with you. if in doubt, always err on the safe side. insert the cashcard and if not used at all, just remove it after that. in cases where you really forget then boh bian, pay lor.

 

cheers!

turnip

[HelmetBOX1605198525]

maybe they should set a sign board like ERP OPERATION 400metre ahead please insert cashcard like those in the expressway stating accidents ahead slow down