Product : Engine Oil Discussion

[Isopropyl]

You have enough oil to last for several years of oil experiments. Though, the Helix and Magnatec are car oils? Probably be great for use on a dry-clutch bike since they are not affected by friction reducers.

 

The group bought at least 8 litres of Amsoil too at $17 per litre for testing on two Suzukis, a GSR and a DR200, great price, but I'm sticking to Schaeffer because of the low low price. Non-destructive test rider reports Schaeffer's 'moly plating' effect has kicked in too after a week or so, giving him an awesomely smooth ride.

 

Ever thought of selling off the extra oil? It can be used to fund new oil purchases, making way for new oil test projects or even getting some instrumentation. Oil temp gauge would be waaaay better than testing oil temp by hand LOL.

 

most likely i just finish up the delo first as it won't take long and castrol as chain lube? the rest i just try to use it somewhere else.

 

in term of engine life for a stock engine, different oil is fun to discuss on paper but in real world operation it make very little difference although better oil does bring a bit of performance improvement whether measureable with the naked butt is another story. like you, i prefer something cheap and good(yes, there are things in life that is cheap and good:) ) and change it out often.

 

anyway, which type of bike do you think will destroy an oil faster in the context of daily commuting? big capacity bike or small bike like moped? of course bike like air-cooled V-twin is well-known "oil killer". it is not uncommon for friends with bigger bike recommend cheapest oil you can find or even on the cheapest shell motorcycle oil label mention those oil good suitable for moped. but isn't smaller bike usually have a smaller oil sump, run at higher rpm and alot is only air-cooled pretty hard on oil? sometime i do wish we have easy acess to UOA:(

[trex101]

We used to have access to Schaeffer UOA testing unit but since 2009, they have raise their UOA testing cost from US$20+ to now US$60+, not viable for us to carry the UOA testing kit anymore.

 

But one thing i'm very sure are, there are a range of "different lubricant quality" designed for different price range & market. We just need to match the product we need for our specific application, cheap and good can be achieve through careful selection.

[Isopropyl]

We used to have access to Schaeffer UOA testing unit but since 2009, they have raise their UOA testing cost from US$20+ to now US$60+, not viable for us to carry the UOA testing kit anymore.

 

But one thing i'm very sure are, there are a range of "different lubricant quality" designed for different price range & market. We just need to match the product we need for our specific application, cheap and good can be achieve through careful selection.

 

such a pretty. if the price is still 20USD no doubt i will get some test done just for the fun of it. but for 60USD... errr... i rather use it for my next oil purchase.

 

agree. getting oil good enough for our specific needs is more important then getting the best oil out there. lately my colleagues is crazy over some Torco SR-5 Racing oil that cost $30plus per quart. they are saying how smooth and good it is. but who know is this racing oil good enough for street use which see much longer OCI then in a racing situation.

[ben1112]

lol

wat lengthy words.......still fundamentally basic is zero.

true fact is fuel saved = lesser fuel burnt = under power = overheat engine - law of physic.

u dun even know heat is the killer of oil, how knowledgeable about oil is useless.

i end my note here, forgive my rudeness but i felt the need to interrupt.

 

I felt compelled to do the same as you. But I kept quiet knowing exactly how it would turn out.

[ben1112]

http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm

 

You can read just point no.1 and what it says about lean running.

[Isopropyl]

did an oil change today. just realise my bike have been on a steady diet of HDEO for the past 12,000km:cheeky:

 

nice:thumb:

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

did an oil change today. just realise my bike have been on a steady diet of HDEO for the past 12,000km:cheeky:

 

nice:thumb:

 

Same here, getting excellent performance and efficiency out of 'nonstandard' EO

[CSV]

so would it be reasonable to say that

 

if a bike were to adapt to using HDEO, clutch needs some adjustment as well as carb settings?

[CSV]

so would it be reasonable to say that

 

if a bike were to adapt to using HDEO, clutch needs some adjustment as well as carb settings?

[Isopropyl]

so would it be reasonable to say that

 

if a bike were to adapt to using HDEO, clutch needs some adjustment as well as carb settings?

 

nope. just use it as per your normal motorcycle specific oil.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

so would it be reasonable to say that

 

if a bike were to adapt to using HDEO, clutch needs some adjustment as well as carb settings?

 

Depends on brand

 

Here's what I can conclude:

 

1) Diesel HDEO such as Rimula, popular with some Malaysian bike clubs.

 

Big adjustments to carb needed. Very different clutch handling. If used without adjustments, most likely end up with overheating and engine damage.

 

2) "Universal" HDEO - heavy duty oils with both API C (diesel) and S (petrol) ratings such as Schaeffer; behaves just like a normal motorcycle EO, much cheaper, and much better.

 

Even the difference between Schaeffer 7000 ($11) and 9000 'racing' ($13) is worlds apart. Engine now has totally no vibrations at highway speed. The 9000 has very good high temperature resilience too, so I'm back to the preferred lean settings again.

 

 

edited to add oil cost / litre.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Pandora's Kitten :3

[CSV]

on schaeffer 9000 now.

 

first impression is that gear selection is abit sticky. but this could be due to new oil. less than 100km.

 

will be posting updates. i have high expectations for this oil after reading up on reviews.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Awesome. Got a few phantoms running 9000 on my end. So far no complaints.

[MERCENARY]

I am going to try Schaeffer 20w50 and Amsoil 15w50 for my XR 400.

Hey all,between the above two engine oils which one do you all think would be better for the above bike?

[CSV]

their both 50 weight so won't be too much of a difference.

 

schaffer is HDEO which is something like a "universal" engine oil

 

while amsoil i believe is motorcycle specific engine oil.

 

either way you won't go wrong with both oils, since the important thing is how often the EO is changed, not what you use on them.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

AMSOIL scores very well in their API tests especially in all the motorcycle-crucial categories such as the 4-ball wear test, wet clutch performance and HTHS resistance.

 

In this 26 motor oil test paper focused on motorcycle specific oil requirements, AMSOIL was found to be superior to all the other oil brands.

 

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/MC White paper-g2156.pdf

 

But when tested on a Suzuki DR200 the AMSOIL was found to produce more vibration than normal. The DR200 has not tested Schaeffer, however.

 

The Phantoms that went for Schaeffer reported much improved high speed smoothness as though there was a 'friction reduction' effect (as advertised by Schaeffer themselves) but no problems at all with the clutch. However I have not acquired any AMSOIL to test on the Phantoms yet. So not a very scientifically proper test yet.

[trex101]

Amsoil produces some very good product but i will take their white paper with a pinch of salt. It's mostly about marketing and they always compare their best results against the worst or different category(synthetic against mineral or low end synthetic) among their competitors.

 

Just like 4-ball wear test on engine oil(which is irreverent btw), they always compare it to Mobil 1(not Mobil 1 EP which is their leading product) which score very badly yet exclude Royal Purple out because RP score very well in 4-ball or timken test.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Amsoil produces some very good product but i will take their white paper with a pinch of salt. It's mostly about marketing and they always compare their best results against the worst or different category(synthetic against mineral or low end synthetic) among their competitors.

 

Just like 4-ball wear test on engine oil(which is irreverent btw), they always compare it to Mobil 1(not Mobil 1 EP which is their leading product) which score very badly yet exclude Royal Purple out because RP score very well in 4-ball or timken test.

 

Exactly why I chose Schaeffer in the end.

 

API specifications are well documented to the general public (if we care to find info independently on the net) and it's child's play to tailor a product that appears to beat all the competition by as you said, selecting said competitors carefully.

 

Also, AMSOIL uses very aggressive marketing strategies just like all non-mainstream products - namely MLM. They have earned a bad reputation by using said marketing techniques to push and hard-sell their products.

 

Well I'll add this statement to the discussion: - if the product is that good, motorcycle communities will automatically support the product. No need to resort to fabricating stories to make their product look better.

 

Take Shell Rotella for instance. Not a motorcycle oil yet in the States and elsewhere motorcyclists pester Shell for their opinion to officially support HDEO use on bikes and ATVs. And Motul, which earned its fame through motorsport (I think) even from a very long time ago. Go to any bike veterans' website and many a time Motul 5100 is touted as one of the best synthetic oils out there.

[MERCENARY]

their both 50 weight so won't be too much of a difference.

 

schaffer is HDEO which is something like a "universal" engine oil

 

while amsoil i believe is motorcycle specific engine oil.

 

either way you won't go wrong with both oils, since the important thing is how often the EO is changed, not what you use on them.

 

For me,i will follow the mileage recommended by the manual.

My bike dont have coolant and have a good history of oil consumption due to evaporation.

I prefer to be on the safe side.Any wear and tear in any of the engine parts,i cant see.

If through feel,the damage done would be already quite significant.

Thanks for sharing:)

[MERCENARY]

AMSOIL scores very well in their API tests especially in all the motorcycle-crucial categories such as the 4-ball wear test, wet clutch performance and HTHS resistance.

 

In this 26 motor oil test paper focused on motorcycle specific oil requirements, AMSOIL was found to be superior to all the other oil brands.

 

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/MC White paper-g2156.pdf

 

But when tested on a Suzuki DR200 the AMSOIL was found to produce more vibration than normal. The DR200 has not tested Schaeffer, however.

 

The Phantoms that went for Schaeffer reported much improved high speed smoothness as though there was a 'friction reduction' effect (as advertised by Schaeffer themselves) but no problems at all with the clutch. However I have not acquired any AMSOIL to test on the Phantoms yet. So not a very scientifically proper test yet.

 

True indeed.Bottomline,we aint there physically to view the tests ourselves.

The best is through riders who we can trust,and are sensitive enough to feel the difference.

Thanks for your information.

If one rider says wrong,but five riders say correct.Simple analogy,who will you believe?

[MERCENARY]

Amsoil produces some very good product but i will take their white paper with a pinch of salt. It's mostly about marketing and they always compare their best results against the worst or different category(synthetic against mineral or low end synthetic) among their competitors.

 

Just like 4-ball wear test on engine oil(which is irreverent btw), they always compare it to Mobil 1(not Mobil 1 EP which is their leading product) which score very badly yet exclude Royal Purple out because RP score very well in 4-ball or timken test.

 

Base on experience,which product advertises the cons of their products at the back of their engine oil bottles?

I also only use the information as a guideline,got to see genuine feedbacks and reviews.Best of all try it yourself.

[MERCENARY]

Exactly why I chose Schaeffer in the end.

 

API specifications are well documented to the general public (if we care to find info independently on the net) and it's child's play to tailor a product that appears to beat all the competition by as you said, selecting said competitors carefully.

 

Also, AMSOIL uses very aggressive marketing strategies just like all non-mainstream products - namely MLM. They have earned a bad reputation by using said marketing techniques to push and hard-sell their products.

 

Well I'll add this statement to the discussion: - if the product is that good, motorcycle communities will automatically support the product. No need to resort to fabricating stories to make their product look better.

 

Take Shell Rotella for instance. Not a motorcycle oil yet in the States and elsewhere motorcyclists pester Shell for their opinion to officially support HDEO use on bikes and ATVs. And Motul, which earned its fame through motorsport (I think) even from a very long time ago. Go to any bike veterans' website and many a time Motul 5100 is touted as one of the best synthetic oils out there.

 

True indeed thanks to technology,we can easily find information through the webs.

 

By word of mouth must be cautious,we dont know his or her motives unless you deem trustworthy.

By word of mouth is the best,partially thats how MLM comes about.FOC advertisement.I HATE MLM.

 

FOr Motul 5100,true indeed recommended to me through friends and many mechanics.One of them also riding the same bike as me,swears by it.

No doubt it's a good oil,everyone wants best of two worlds.The price increase is insane.

Thanks to all who have shared,i have decided on Schaeffer.

[bearbelo]

why not u use motor rex brand 1 bottel $25 to $28

[twinklefloral]

Valentines' Day Flower on sales! Early bird promotion till 20th Jan 12!

Giving out free 4gb MP3/Bluetooth headset for purchase!

 

http://www.twinklefloral.blogspot.com / call/text DANE NG @ 96254275 for more information.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Motorex at $28 is twice the price of Schaeffer 9000 Racing 5W50 ($13) leh.