Product : Engine Oil Discussion

[duo]

May i know what's the the "10W50" means? what is the 10 and wad is the 50? How do we know which EO shld we use?? Please adv!!!

I believe you can find all these from google. Or feel free to read the previous pages. IIRC its been asked and answered plenty of times.

 

 

 

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[WanFazer]

Im using semi syn for my gtr1400 n its been doing great.. Used to sworn on fully syn when on my previous ride but e price shoot up like crazy... Hence now using e semi syn eo n do oil change every 5000km n never wud i b returning back to full syn eo... Waste of $$ only ...

[RaidoN]

Which page? Any kind soul can jus explain to me again?

[Isopropyl]

Which page? Any kind soul can jus explain to me again?

 

i typed the explaination when i saw your previous post then i saw you are looking for a kind soul so i decided not to post the answer. how do i deprive your chance of learning on how to be independent by spoon feeding and still be a kind soul at the sametime? it just doesn't add up.

 

hint: go to http://www.google.com and search for SAE viscosity.

[shahrul_azmil3]

Story one

 

I have a fren who had did a top servicing on his ex 2004 yamaha r1. He told me that the mech said that his pistons, cylinder etc etc looks good and in healthy condition.

 

Guess what? He nvr used a full syn engine oil. He always used semi syn.

 

Story two

 

One day as I was browsing thru the magazine department while waiting for my wife to finish work at harris bookstore. Happen to read about an artical on motul oils. Its written that u could mix diff engine oils together semi to fully or fully to semi but not to mineral oils. It states too that now days semi syn oil is quite advance already with almost similer characteristic of fully syn.

 

So how?

 

 

 

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[Isopropyl]

Story one

 

I have a fren who had did a top servicing on his ex 2004 yamaha r1. He told me that the mech said that his pistons, cylinder etc etc looks good and in healthy condition.

 

Guess what? He nvr used a full syn engine oil. He always used semi syn.

 

Story two

 

One day as I was browsing thru the magazine department while waiting for my wife to finish work at harris bookstore. Happen to read about an artical on motul oils. Its written that u could mix diff engine oils together semi to fully or fully to semi but not to mineral oils. It states too that now days semi syn oil is quite advance already with almost similer characteristic of fully syn.

 

So how?

 

 

 

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there are many bikes that run nothing but dino juice for hundreds of thousand miles without any problem. the question to ask is why are you paying good money for synthetic? does it really offer better protection for your usage and OCI?

 

one of the questions many fail to ask is what is the ratio of synthetic in semi-synthetic? it could range from a good 50 percent form the top guns to awfully little synthetic base in some cases which obviously doesn't do much except for marketing purpose. so is motul basing their advice on their own oil or in general? i will be more aware of additives conflict then base oil.

[RaidoN]

i typed the explaination when i saw your previous post then i saw you are looking for a kind soul so i decided not to post the answer. how do i deprive your chance of learning on how to be independent by spoon feeding and still be a kind soul at the sametime? it just doesn't add up.

 

hint: go to http://www.google.com and search for SAE viscosity.

 

Before i even asked anything here I already search it for myself, but still don't really quite understand. w = winter? What's that? I just need a simple explanation of why some bikes use etc 10w30 some can't. And fyi, i don't need you to spoon feed me, I'm just trying to find an answer for myself to clear my doubt anyway. If no one willing to help then so be it. You don't have to post n comment so much about all these anw Make it simple, want help? Post, don't want help? Just read and forgetit?

[shahrul_azmil3]

Another observation from me is

 

At the back of the bottle there are summary of the oil. Most semi syn oil too wrote that its for high rev engine but when i ask mechs here most will say yet again better use fully syn as its for high rev bike.

 

I asked i did not high rev my bike most of the time. He then said its the initial start up of the bike. Im still quite blur but i have to be on my way. To eat. Food is important n im hungry then. So any kind soul to advice me?

 

As my bike is a 1300cc bike, most of the time it does not go past 5k rpm. I high rev my honda sp 150 more then this beast. So logically 1300cc, 4 pistons. Not much high rev. I should downgrade my oils to semi syn.

 

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[Isopropyl]

Before i even asked anything here I already search it for myself, but still don't really quite understand. w = winter? What's that? I just need a simple explanation of why some bikes use etc 10w30 some can't. And fyi, i don't need you to spoon feed me, I'm just trying to find an answer for myself to clear my doubt anyway. If no one willing to help then so be it. You don't have to post n comment so much about all these anw Make it simple, want help? Post, don't want help? Just read and forgetit?

 

which do you think is helping? a teacher giving home work or fulfill the demand of a student needs for an answer sheet? as much as we love an answer sheet, it is home work that help the student to growth. you need to understand this is an open forums so everyone is free to post their views if it is not against the law. the same thing can be say to you, can read and forget others reply if it hurt isn't it? we are helping, just not the way you want.

 

ah.... at least we are getting somewhere. specific questions:thumb: you are right in W = Winter. the winter figures is use to grade the oil pumpability/crankability in low temperature. it is not that much of a concern in our part of the world. as for the 2nd number, it is use to represent the viscosity or thickness range of an oil at the temperature of 100C.

 

as for the question on why some bike can use 10W30 while others demand thicker oil, there are 2 parts to it. firstly is the design of the engine clearance of parts in the engine and the operation temperature of a particular engine design will also affect the require oil viscosity. secondly, it is to meet the emission demand. some countries will tax an automobile company base on their vehical emisson therefore they recommend thinner oil. thinner oil = less drag and hence lesser emisson. for example, honda recommend 10w30 for all their motorcycle that is produce from 2006 onwards. there are sources that mentioned there is no change to the engine design from pre-2006 bikes until 2009. if that is true, obviously it is gear towards lesser emssion.

[Isopropyl]

Another observation from me is

 

At the back of the bottle there are summary of the oil. Most semi syn oil too wrote that its for high rev engine but when i ask mechs here most will say yet again better use fully syn as its for high rev bike.

 

I asked i did not high rev my bike most of the time. He then said its the initial start up of the bike. Im still quite blur but i have to be on my way. To eat. Food is important n im hungry then. So any kind soul to advice me?

 

As my bike is a 1300cc bike, most of the time it does not go past 5k rpm. I high rev my honda sp 150 more then this beast. So logically 1300cc, 4 pistons. Not much high rev. I should downgrade my oils to semi syn.

 

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the main issue with high RPM is it tend to chew up the oil faster causing it to lose it viscosity. most people have an understanding that synthetic is more robust then mineral oil therefore offer more resistance to viscosity lost. thankfully that is not true across the board. as long as your choice of oil matches your riding style and servicing plan, you are good to go with semi or even mineral.

 

i do not know the reasoning behind why your mech think full synthetic is better for start up protection. i will suggest his reasons might be full synthetic have a higher viscosity index(VI) therefore thinner oil which equal to faster flow, ester oil which bond to metal surface, better additives or similar reason that claim better cold start protection.

 

thankfully at our part of the world, a low winter grade oil likely will not do much better then thicker oil. in the 90s, quaker state released a commercial which compare thier oil with a few other brands. using a different viscosity index improver(VII) then standard polymer, their oil have better flow and pump characteristics then those brands and hence will give better cold start protection. to cut the story short, one of the brand which is Castrol brought up the case to counter their claim. their agurement is in the line that there is enough residue oil left on the metal surface to prevent wear till oil is fully circulating. although quaker state is able to prove their oil flow faster, thier test does not indicate lower start up wear as compare to other brands. Castrol won and the commerial was taken down. it a pretty big task to prove one oil is better then the others for cold start isn't it?

 

i think you will be fine with any decent brand oil that meet your bike's manufactor requirements regardless of base oil.

[shahrul_azmil3]

Money is hard earned nowdays. Every cent save is more food on the table to eatttt. . . .

 

Of coz the mech promote fully syn what. More profits.

 

A Abg once advice me to better use no brand fully syn then semi syn. I did. I found two. One is putoline from lab. Fully syn cost$ 16. The other is at jb. Fully syn cost rm30. Both feels like im using old like. Like I nvr change oil like that. Disappointed. Next oil change will try a good brand name semi to feel how is it.

 

Im not scientists. Science subject ends at sec 3 for me.

 

So its all in the feel. . . . . . .

 

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[superspeed123]

I believe the most important is how often you change your oil and oil filter. Some people use full synthetic oil for 10k then change , some change their semi oil at 5k. But for me, I change full synthetic on or before 5k, semi oil on or before 4k. Depend on my butt feeling and whether when changing gears it become more difficult.

[shahrul_azmil3]

5k is too early lar. Seriously.

 

I've tried 10k and it too late already. When draining oil, it seems lesser.

 

Imo, between 7-8k intervals. For fully syn

 

4-5k intervals for semi syn.

 

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[Isopropyl]

sadly we don't have much option on how often to change our oil without easy access to UOA.

1) educated guess

2) butt dyno

3) ultra conservative

i based my on option 1 and 3. as for option 2, there is too much left to be answer for it to be my choice.

[RaidoN]

which do you think is helping? a teacher giving home work or fulfill the demand of a student needs for an answer sheet? as much as we love an answer sheet, it is home work that help the student to growth. you need to understand this is an open forums so everyone is free to post their views if it is not against the law. the same thing can be say to you, can read and forget others reply if it hurt isn't it? we are helping, just not the way you want.

 

ah.... at least we are getting somewhere. specific questions:thumb: you are right in W = Winter. the winter figures is use to grade the oil pumpability/crankability in low temperature. it is not that much of a concern in our part of the world. as for the 2nd number, it is use to represent the viscosity or thickness range of an oil at the temperature of 100C.

 

as for the question on why some bike can use 10W30 while others demand thicker oil, there are 2 parts to it. firstly is the design of the engine clearance of parts in the engine and the operation temperature of a particular engine design will also affect the require oil viscosity. secondly, it is to meet the emission demand. some countries will tax an automobile company base on their vehical emisson therefore they recommend thinner oil. thinner oil = less drag and hence lesser emisson. for example, honda recommend 10w30 for all their motorcycle that is produce from 2006 onwards. there are sources that mentioned there is no change to the engine design from pre-2006 bikes until 2009. if that is true, obviously it is gear towards lesser emssion.

 

Thanks for the explanation, appreciated

[duo]

My advice is to use EO manufactured by companies that only specialises in bikes. Not both car and bikes. This part is where you need to do your own research.

 

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[shahrul_azmil3]

Wah! Like that ar. . . There are more companies that makes oil for both car n bike.

 

Cannot say castrol no good . . . . Shell too. . .

 

Motul, rock oil is some that makes only bike oils. Any others? Hrm. . .

 

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[Isopropyl]

My advice is to use EO manufactured by companies that only specialises in bikes. Not both car and bikes. This part is where you need to do your own research.

 

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your advice is based on?

 

i did my reading although i won't say it is research. it tend to disagree with your advice. also which are the oil company that only specialize in bike?

[shahrul_azmil3]

I will switch to a reputable brand semi syn for the next oil change and will change at the interval of 5k-6k

 

: p

 

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[Isopropyl]

I will switch to a reputable brand semi syn for the next oil change and will change at the interval of 5k-6k

 

: p

 

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maxima syn blend come to mind:thumb:

[shahrul_azmil3]

no idea. Should be getting those with a price tag of not more then$ 17 per bottle. More then rather use fully syn

 

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[Isopropyl]

no idea. Should be getting those with a price tag of not more then$ 17 per bottle. More then rather use fully syn

 

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wat about Petro-canada Duron XL? semi-syn, JASO MA/MA2 rated, rm100 for 4L which work out to be abt $10 per litres. meet wat you need:angel: oh, maybe not the motorcycle sticker you are looking for...

 

ASTM 7109 shear stable:thumb: with an HTHS of 4.5??? make me want to:cry:

Edited March 15, 2012 by Isopropyl
link doesn't work

[duo]

your advice is based on?

 

i did my reading although i won't say it is research. it tend to disagree with your advice. also which are the oil company that only specialize in bike?

Would you go to a car mechanic to fix a bike? Same theory..

 

 

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[fadrocks]

for cb400 what engine oil the best?

[superspeed123]

I am using Motul 5100 15W50 now but is a bit ex at $18 per bottle.But my Suzuki Bandit 1250 love it. Will keep an eye how the oil behave after 4k. Silkolene semi synthetic 15W50 selling at $12 and Maxima syn blend $15 per bottle at Bikeworkz.